Foolish mortals, have ye no fear THE living god???!!
Look at the early old testament books of Waydale and I and II Greasespot and tremble!!
Once unleased, THE noun rose up into godhood and took possession of many innocent minds who babbled on for thousands of posts in adoration of THE.
Beware lest thou arouse THE again from the lower bowels of stupor hell of ten thousand half empty Guinness kegs to belch forth across this planet urinating great truths upon the unwashed masses in golden tinkling delights.
Are you prepared to once again face that monster........... ???
Consider thy ways and repent before it is too late.
DISCLAIMER:
By the way, although Guinness appreciates the great increase in sales they had during this period, THE still owes them $27,342,591.03 plus tax and the last check bounced. Guiness Limited ESQ. has initiated garnishment proceedures against THE Mountain in hopes of getting some recompence against their claim.
Also they hope to find at least some of their missing kegs.
Yes, Jesus addressed major confrontation in Matthew 15 [TO the Pharisees].....but where in the Scriptures does Jesus verbally assault his men, his disciples? Even Judas, the sop was given. Anger? Venom? Where is it? What about the Apostle Paul?
If someone can point me to those scriptures, I would like to see them.
If someone can show me wierwille's fiery anger was justified.....I will consider.
I couldn't show justification for anger I never saw. Jesus reproved Peter (get thee behind me, satan) and Judas (when he said the ointment should have been sold and the money given to the poor)in scripture. He must have at least raised his voice, but no 15-20 minutes and no venom. Paul must have at least raised his voice when telling Barnabus that John Mark would not be travelling with them anymore (Acts 15:37-40)and when confronting Peter in Gal. 2:11-14. It makes me think of times I heard or saw others get yelled at.
A 1987 Monday night football game in which Bears coach Mike Ditka grabbed receiver Emery Moorhead's face mask and screamed at him. Ditka years later lamented that young players can't take getting yelled at anymore and he couldn't coach if he couldn't do that. I once did janitorial work 3 times per week for a business office. Once while waiting to get paid I overheard a man in a cubicle yell at a contractor on the phone saying he would give them no more business. At another work place I heard a store mgr yell at an assistant mgr for poor performance. I sometimes wonder if military indiscretions can be traced to how they get yelled at in boot camp.
I got yelled at myself a few times by twi leaders, but nothing I'd call venomous. VP seemed to have huge expectations for corps and clergy. Ironic, considering that part of pfal where he says he spent a week with a man who said he didn't sin, but he could get real angry and yell. There are times when people get angry and yell in or out of twi. That's just people. But I can't say VP was justified for any of that; I never saw him do it. Perhaps if I did I might feel differently.
16 I say then, walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don't do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar, about which I tell you in advance-as I told you before-that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit. 26 We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
You can see that those who shout and yell with "outbursts of anger" ... well, let's just say, "patience" is a fruit of the spirit and "outbursts of anger" are not. And "spiritual anger" is certainly not listed as a fruit of the spirit.
I couldn't show justification for anger I never saw. Jesus reproved Peter (get thee behind me, satan) and Judas (when he said the ointment should have been sold and the money given to the poor)in scripture. He must have at least raised his voice, but no 15-20 minutes and no venom. Paul must have at least raised his voice when telling Barnabus that John Mark would not be travelling with them anymore (Acts 15:37-40)and when confronting Peter in Gal. 2:11-14. It makes me think of times I heard or saw others get yelled at.
johniam.......Jesus confronted SATAN, not Peter.
You actually said it yourself.......but seem to twist it around. I can't possibly take your post as credible
when you twist the scriptures and distort their meanings. If this helps you sleep at night and "protect your
idolized image of wierwille," go ahead....its your life.
I always find it ironic how you, johniam, come to wierwille's defense......having not been an eye witness to
these things that posters give testimony to. Wierwille's fiery confrontations and early clergy letters were
not open for the general public to see. Is that a surprise?
It was the beginning of the end for me. For all of VP's tearful "at the Way we love people and use things" rhetoric at classes and ROA, it became obvious that A) VPW most assuredly "used people" and B) had no qualms lying about it.
Jim.......so true.
In 1980, in the BRC.....a group of six were seated up front to share about their experiences and learning at "The Tracker" seminar where Tom Brown Jr. taught skills of tracking and survival. Remember, from 1976-1981, twi and, specifically, the corps program was heavily engaged in a sub-theme of "mobile abundant living" [MAL-packs] in a subversion of an American overthrow. Thus, some corps and others went to learn from the man who was "the master of tracking" - Tom Brown Jr.
During this BRC gathering, wierwille was seated near the front on the side. All six members had come prepared to share their learning experience to those of us, 90-120 people, in an evening gathering. Going down the line, each shared about ten minutes and how learning is exciting and all. BUT.....this nice, pleasant evening was just about to take a jaded turn as the fourth person shared his experience. He was 8th corps and had a deep enthusiasm for all-things nature, had built a small cabin years before, and an ego to match. Not sure if he spoke longer than his slotted time frame, but superlatives were attached to Tom Brown's skills and teaching. Tom Brown was the master, the man in the spotlight, the man to teach anyone about life and living!!
Well.....wiewille couldn't stand it any longer. With fire in his eyes, he jumped up and unloaded with vehement, frothing-at-the-mouth anger! This 8th corps guy was "POSSESSED," he thundered with a vengence. For a moment, I actually thought wierwille was going to throw a punch and deck the guy. He was that furious. He railed and railed. I found myself in a whirlwind of thoughts, "What the he!! is going on here? Is this guy really possessed? Are we going to see devil spirits cast out? Oh, my!" Wierwille thundered onward....there seemed to be no end.
Finally, the fury stopped as wierwille headed for the backroom of the BRC. The silence in the room was deafening as Johnnie T. came forward to tag-team the meltdown. Another ten minutes of justifying wierwille's fury and Johnnie dismissed us. As I walked back to my unit, I wondered why wierwille didn't cast out any spirits.....IF this guy was indeed possessed. My respect for wierwille had, once again, diminished in my eyes.
Amazingly, the head-to-head confrontation did NOT crush this 8th corps guy nor his testimony....in my opinion. And perhaps, that is why the confrontation lasted so long. WIERWILLE COULD NOT STAND ANOTHER MAN, TOM BROWN, LAUDED AS A GREAT MAN AND TEACHER.
I was back in the video room taping that meeting. I have never seen a person, anywhere, go off so badly as VP did.
I was a lowly AC grad and was assigned to tape the meeting because all the corps AV were off somewhere. Just out of curiosity, was the incident discussed amongst the corps after the meeting?
As I walked back to my unit, I wondered why wierwille didn't cast out any spirits.....
Jesus cast out spirits and kept the people, the way international has cast out the people and kept the spirits. (I dunno, sounded pithy enough to post )
I was back in the video room taping that meeting. I have never seen a person, anywhere, go off so badly as VP did.
I was a lowly AC grad and was assigned to tape the meeting because all the corps AV were off somewhere. Just out of curiosity, was the incident discussed amongst the corps after the meeting?
Jim.....thanks for verifying this incident.
Wierwille-defenders like to turn the tables on whoever brings solid testimony of wierwille's wrath and character.
Just like wierwille's wrecked twig-hopper......it gets covered up. No, we didn't discuss this, no one wanted to
even whisper what happened. It went down the memory hole and was "forgotten."
For reasons like this.....I chose not to visit the corps-only website where many seem to fawn over selected memories
and feel-good experiences. Guess I'm just not wired that way.
Dude, he was looking at Peter when he said that. Hello? Are you saying Peter was possessed?
No matter who he was looking at or talking to Vic and Craig both used that record to justify their unbridled anger. The way still teaches about spiritual anger and confrontation and still use this record to justify their error.
Dude, he was looking at Peter when he said that. Hello? Are you saying Peter was possessed?
Dude? ......are your feathers ruffled?
Read the following scriptures and tell me that THIS equates to wierwille's vehement, vein-popping, yellfest
that many saw in those "good ole wierwille days?"
Mar 8:32 And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Mar 8:34 ¶ And when he had called the people [unto him] with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Dude, he was looking at Peter when he said that. Hello? Are you saying Peter was possessed?
Johniam...are you saying that Peter [the first Pope] could not possibly become possessed? Obviously Jesus recognized to whom he was speaking. Same goes for VPW.
Ever notice how, when Mr. Wierwille's character gets called into question, there are those who insist on drawing others into some sort of discussion of Biblical parallels?
"Oh, what about David? What about Jesus?,blah, blah, blah."
We don't live in Biblical times and Wierwille wasn't a Biblical figure. He was just a two-bit con man from Cornfield County who used the Bible to cloak his deception. He had an ego the size of a '58 Buick and couldn't stand to be one-upped. It's really just that simple.
I heard this same comparison to Newt Gingrich yesterday... Off topic, I know. But just because David had an affair doesn't mean it's justification for anyone else to do so... VP, LCM, or any political figure cannot be compared to King David. Sorry, just don't see it.
While at headquarters my final year of inresidence corps......a nightowl was scheduled in the Way Woods. The night was pleasant and, as we walked past the George Jess memorial, a crackling fire welcomed us with curling flames and warmth. For me, I was thankful to be outdoors and soak in the sounds and smells of nature.
As always, the corps coordinator handles the initial stages of corps gatherings before wierwille steps in. This seems to be standard twi protocol, much like a warm-up band takes the stage before the marquee band takes the music and crowd to a whole new level. Anyways, that the way its always done....and probably, will stay. When wierwille enters, he takes his chair and is flanked by the corps coordinator. Another couple of logs are placed on the fire to set the atmosphere, and the crickets chirp in the woods.
About an hour into the nightowl, as the serenity of the evening was peaking....none of us could foresee what was about to erupt! In the shadows behind wierwille was his aide, his bodyguard whose two-way radio blurted and screeched in the quiet night air. The "atmosphere" of the whole evening came to an abrupt halt; a meticulously planned nightowl was broken in an instant. Wierwille could NOT contain his anger. He unleashed this tempest and castigated him relentlessly for about five minutes.
This bodyguard was the same man wierwille had praised months before by saying, "He stands by my side, because he doesn't take sh!t from no one." So, the irony of this night loomed large as wierwille couldn't help but verbally attack his right-hand man. Why couldn't vpw just cover for the mistake? Or, better yet.....call attention to it as a big ooops! and move on? What made it so awkward was that wierwille was "caught in the headlights" and couldn't adjust to the moment. So, his anger came front and center!! To me, this fury revealed wierwille's character....something he worked a lifetime to hide.
The bodyguard? From what I heard from hq-staffers the next day, he packed up and left.
The guy was a phoney, an actor. He found himself, center stage, in the heat of a crucial scene, with his fly open. Why people continue to idolize and exalt this bum is beyond comprehension.
Wierwille could NOT contain his anger. He unleashed this tempest and castigated him relentlessly for about five minutes.
And this is the fruit by which Jesus instructed his followers to know people. Wierwille and Okie had the outward appearances of the tirades, curse words, and verbal tongue-dressings. The current administration has it with extreme administrative actions to denigrate, slander, blackball all done behind closed doors and via henchmen, with meetings in private and silent of director's boards where they conspire to perform the evil in their hearts.
A mature genuine Christian leader in a situation like that would have joked about "how did those crickets get radios?" and moved on with compassion and grace. A mature genuine Christian leader does not hold grudges, compile blacklists, and move in their heart to conspire against their brother or sister, to bring up false testimony and to execute false judgements. They would not verbally embaress a right hand supporter in front of an audience causing them to experience that level of shame and embaressment. That is not the fruit of the spirit.
By their fruit know them. The fruit of TWI leaders is that of spoiled little children not accustomed to disciplining themselves to have a moral Christian character, but living by their spoiled little consciences.
quote: I always find it ironic how you, johniam, come to wierwille's defense.
I find it "ironic" that you start a thread about fiery confrontations and dissenting leadership, yet, you execute fiery confrontation when I dissent. I wonder how loud your voice would be if you spoke (yelled) what you post to me. Plus, I all but agreed with you about VP yelling. He never yelled at me, but if he had, I might feel much differently about him.
quote: I can't possibly take your post as credible
when you twist the scriptures and distort their meanings.
Credibility? You seem to have a socialistic view of credibility. Like you think if someone has too much credibility then there's not enough of it for others. And I might have too much. I don't think it works that way. You think you're waaaaaay up there and VP is waaaaay down here and when I poke holes in your moral superiority it reveals a level playing field which you refuse to concede.
Jesus did yell at Peter. He called him satan for impact. There's plenty of scripture in which it plainly says there was a spirit present when Jesus confronted it. Not when he said to peter get thee behind me satan. Perhaps YOU are the one who is twisting scripture. Sometimes people say blasphemous things because there's a spirit present; other times people say things because they have bad thinking habits and there doesn't have to be a spirit present.
Personally, I don't like being yelled at and I don't like yelling at people.
And this is the fruit by which Jesus instructed his followers to know people. Wierwille and Okie had the outward appearances of the tirades, curse words, and verbal tongue-dressings. The current administration has it with extreme administrative actions to denigrate, slander, blackball all done behind closed doors and via henchmen, with meetings in private and silent of director's boards where they conspire to perform the evil in their hearts.
A mature genuine Christian leader in a situation like that would have joked about "how did those crickets get radios?" and moved on with compassion and grace. A mature genuine Christian leader does not hold grudges, compile blacklists, and move in their heart to conspire against their brother or sister, to bring up false testimony and to execute false judgements. They would not verbally embaress a right hand supporter in front of an audience causing them to experience that level of shame and embaressment. That is not the fruit of the spirit.
By their fruit know them. The fruit of TWI leaders is that of spoiled little children not accustomed to disciplining themselves to have a moral Christian character, but living by their spoiled little consciences.
chockfull.....exactly!
"A mature genuine Christian leader in a situation like that would have joked about "how did those crickets get radios?" and moved on with compassion and grace." Or,...."Sounds like Jim bumped the volume knob on that two-way gizmo he carried with him....Aw, Jim, it happens to us all.....nobody's perfect, except the last guy that got outta here some 2,000 years ago."
The INTENSE ANGER revealed wierwille's character.
Why do you think Martindale and Geer were known to be racheted so tight? These two men were the product of years of intensity, anger, and control. And, how did THAT work out?
I've been in church meetings (real church!) when there have been little glitches - equipment doesn't work as it should, something starts when it shouldn't, the wrong words on the PowerPoint screen... and such things have always been handled most graciously - either no comment, or a good-humoured comment that so smooths the difficulty that you'd almost think it enhances the occasion.
So very different from the nit-picky screamfests about not being sharp enough, not paying attention to detail, neh neh neh neh and making such an issue out of it that everyone freaks out and all they remember is how [name] got reamed out. Any positive impact or teaching is immediately overridden.
Was it merely uncontrolled anger? Or was it in reality very carefully controlled anger, to elicit maximum stress and fear in the hearts of watchers - in case they themselves did something wrong. Perhaps it was a bit of both.
Can't speak for VPW, was dead before I heard of TWI.
But I endured enough screamfests from LCM. I'd handle those differently now (especially the personal face to face conftontations). Would get me slung out even quicker!!!
LCM was manipulative too. I had a very quiet confrontation with him once. He looked at me so pained and I was told I was giving him sleepless nights with my conduct. He really didn't know why God kept putting up with me, but he (LCM) wasn't going to throw me out yet. I can't remember all the details now. It was (because he was so quiet and "patient" and "reasonable") all the more devastating.
I think my crime was speaking to a male member of staff on more than a few occasions.
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dabobbada
Foolish mortals, have ye no fear THE living god???!! Look at the early old testament books of Waydale and I and II Greasespot and tremble!! Once unleased, THE noun rose up into godhood and took poss
OldSkool
Jesus cast out spirits and kept the people, the way international has cast out the people and kept the spirits. (I dunno, sounded pithy enough to post )
skyrider
Jim.....thanks for verifying this incident. Wierwille-defenders like to turn the tables on whoever brings solid testimony of wierwille's wrath and character. Just like wierwille's wrecked twig-hop
dabobbada
Foolish mortals, have ye no fear THE living god???!!
Look at the early old testament books of Waydale and I and II Greasespot and tremble!!
Once unleased, THE noun rose up into godhood and took possession of many innocent minds who babbled on for thousands of posts in adoration of THE.
Beware lest thou arouse THE again from the lower bowels of stupor hell of ten thousand half empty Guinness kegs to belch forth across this planet urinating great truths upon the unwashed masses in golden tinkling delights.
Are you prepared to once again face that monster........... ???
Consider thy ways and repent before it is too late.
DISCLAIMER:
By the way, although Guinness appreciates the great increase in sales they had during this period, THE still owes them $27,342,591.03 plus tax and the last check bounced. Guiness Limited ESQ. has initiated garnishment proceedures against THE Mountain in hopes of getting some recompence against their claim.
Also they hope to find at least some of their missing kegs.
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johniam
quote:
Yes, Jesus addressed major confrontation in Matthew 15 [TO the Pharisees].....but where in the Scriptures does Jesus verbally assault his men, his disciples? Even Judas, the sop was given. Anger? Venom? Where is it? What about the Apostle Paul?
If someone can point me to those scriptures, I would like to see them.
If someone can show me wierwille's fiery anger was justified.....I will consider.
I couldn't show justification for anger I never saw. Jesus reproved Peter (get thee behind me, satan) and Judas (when he said the ointment should have been sold and the money given to the poor)in scripture. He must have at least raised his voice, but no 15-20 minutes and no venom. Paul must have at least raised his voice when telling Barnabus that John Mark would not be travelling with them anymore (Acts 15:37-40)and when confronting Peter in Gal. 2:11-14. It makes me think of times I heard or saw others get yelled at.
A 1987 Monday night football game in which Bears coach Mike Ditka grabbed receiver Emery Moorhead's face mask and screamed at him. Ditka years later lamented that young players can't take getting yelled at anymore and he couldn't coach if he couldn't do that. I once did janitorial work 3 times per week for a business office. Once while waiting to get paid I overheard a man in a cubicle yell at a contractor on the phone saying he would give them no more business. At another work place I heard a store mgr yell at an assistant mgr for poor performance. I sometimes wonder if military indiscretions can be traced to how they get yelled at in boot camp.
I got yelled at myself a few times by twi leaders, but nothing I'd call venomous. VP seemed to have huge expectations for corps and clergy. Ironic, considering that part of pfal where he says he spent a week with a man who said he didn't sin, but he could get real angry and yell. There are times when people get angry and yell in or out of twi. That's just people. But I can't say VP was justified for any of that; I never saw him do it. Perhaps if I did I might feel differently.
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Twinky
Anger management... now that's a big topic.
You can see that those who shout and yell with "outbursts of anger" ... well, let's just say, "patience" is a fruit of the spirit and "outbursts of anger" are not. And "spiritual anger" is certainly not listed as a fruit of the spirit.
Nuff said.
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skyrider
johniam.......Jesus confronted SATAN, not Peter.
You actually said it yourself.......but seem to twist it around. I can't possibly take your post as credible
when you twist the scriptures and distort their meanings. If this helps you sleep at night and "protect your
idolized image of wierwille," go ahead....its your life.
I always find it ironic how you, johniam, come to wierwille's defense......having not been an eye witness to
these things that posters give testimony to. Wierwille's fiery confrontations and early clergy letters were
not open for the general public to see. Is that a surprise?
.
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skyrider
Jim.......so true.
In 1980, in the BRC.....a group of six were seated up front to share about their experiences and learning at "The Tracker" seminar where Tom Brown Jr. taught skills of tracking and survival. Remember, from 1976-1981, twi and, specifically, the corps program was heavily engaged in a sub-theme of "mobile abundant living" [MAL-packs] in a subversion of an American overthrow. Thus, some corps and others went to learn from the man who was "the master of tracking" - Tom Brown Jr.
During this BRC gathering, wierwille was seated near the front on the side. All six members had come prepared to share their learning experience to those of us, 90-120 people, in an evening gathering. Going down the line, each shared about ten minutes and how learning is exciting and all. BUT.....this nice, pleasant evening was just about to take a jaded turn as the fourth person shared his experience. He was 8th corps and had a deep enthusiasm for all-things nature, had built a small cabin years before, and an ego to match. Not sure if he spoke longer than his slotted time frame, but superlatives were attached to Tom Brown's skills and teaching. Tom Brown was the master, the man in the spotlight, the man to teach anyone about life and living!!
Well.....wiewille couldn't stand it any longer. With fire in his eyes, he jumped up and unloaded with vehement, frothing-at-the-mouth anger! This 8th corps guy was "POSSESSED," he thundered with a vengence. For a moment, I actually thought wierwille was going to throw a punch and deck the guy. He was that furious. He railed and railed. I found myself in a whirlwind of thoughts, "What the he!! is going on here? Is this guy really possessed? Are we going to see devil spirits cast out? Oh, my!" Wierwille thundered onward....there seemed to be no end.
Finally, the fury stopped as wierwille headed for the backroom of the BRC. The silence in the room was deafening as Johnnie T. came forward to tag-team the meltdown. Another ten minutes of justifying wierwille's fury and Johnnie dismissed us. As I walked back to my unit, I wondered why wierwille didn't cast out any spirits.....IF this guy was indeed possessed. My respect for wierwille had, once again, diminished in my eyes.
Amazingly, the head-to-head confrontation did NOT crush this 8th corps guy nor his testimony....in my opinion. And perhaps, that is why the confrontation lasted so long. WIERWILLE COULD NOT STAND ANOTHER MAN, TOM BROWN, LAUDED AS A GREAT MAN AND TEACHER.
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Rejoice
Goodness Skyrider---from that account alone, we were following after a certifiable MADMAN!!!
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Jim
I was back in the video room taping that meeting. I have never seen a person, anywhere, go off so badly as VP did.
I was a lowly AC grad and was assigned to tape the meeting because all the corps AV were off somewhere. Just out of curiosity, was the incident discussed amongst the corps after the meeting?
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OldSkool
Jesus cast out spirits and kept the people, the way international has cast out the people and kept the spirits. (I dunno, sounded pithy enough to post
)
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johniam
quote:
johniam.......Jesus confronted SATAN, not Peter.
Dude, he was looking at Peter when he said that. Hello? Are you saying Peter was possessed?
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skyrider
Jim.....thanks for verifying this incident.
Wierwille-defenders like to turn the tables on whoever brings solid testimony of wierwille's wrath and character.
Just like wierwille's wrecked twig-hopper......it gets covered up. No, we didn't discuss this, no one wanted to
even whisper what happened. It went down the memory hole and was "forgotten."
For reasons like this.....I chose not to visit the corps-only website where many seem to fawn over selected memories
and feel-good experiences. Guess I'm just not wired that way.
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OldSkool
No matter who he was looking at or talking to Vic and Craig both used that record to justify their unbridled anger. The way still teaches about spiritual anger and confrontation and still use this record to justify their error.
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skyrider
Dude? ......are your feathers ruffled?
Read the following scriptures and tell me that THIS equates to wierwille's vehement, vein-popping, yellfest
that many saw in those "good ole wierwille days?"
Mar 8:32 And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Mar 8:34 ¶ And when he had called the people [unto him] with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
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skyrider
Jim....one more thing.
Twi's caste system was a bunch of bullpookie......some of us corps, me included, never thought of you as a
"lowly AC grad." Wierwille/twi engages in class-status warfare to push numbers and strife.
I know who you are and......personally, always enjoyed your insight.
..edit typos
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Rejoice
Johniam...are you saying that Peter [the first Pope] could not possibly become possessed? Obviously Jesus recognized to whom he was speaking. Same goes for VPW.
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waysider
Ever notice how, when Mr. Wierwille's character gets called into question, there are those who insist on drawing others into some sort of discussion of Biblical parallels?
"Oh, what about David? What about Jesus?,blah, blah, blah."
We don't live in Biblical times and Wierwille wasn't a Biblical figure. He was just a two-bit con man from Cornfield County who used the Bible to cloak his deception. He had an ego the size of a '58 Buick and couldn't stand to be one-upped. It's really just that simple.
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JavaJane
I heard this same comparison to Newt Gingrich yesterday... Off topic, I know. But just because David had an affair doesn't mean it's justification for anyone else to do so... VP, LCM, or any political figure cannot be compared to King David. Sorry, just don't see it.
Edited for autocorrect stupid spelling.
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excathedra
ohmygod stop bringing up these things i've been blocking !!!!!
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skyrider
exie.......I feel your pain, really I do.
Yet, I just happen to believe that GreaseSpot Cafe serves a heaping plate of recovery for all who come thru these
forums and sit a spell. Dessert is served when one finds another friend.
Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International
and its trustees. Our hope is that GreaseSpot Cafe serves as a place where those who have been impacted by The Way can make
connections with people and information which will support their particular process of recovery.
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skyrider
Another Wierwille Confrontation...
While at headquarters my final year of inresidence corps......a nightowl was scheduled in the Way Woods. The night was pleasant and, as we walked past the George Jess memorial, a crackling fire welcomed us with curling flames and warmth. For me, I was thankful to be outdoors and soak in the sounds and smells of nature.
As always, the corps coordinator handles the initial stages of corps gatherings before wierwille steps in. This seems to be standard twi protocol, much like a warm-up band takes the stage before the marquee band takes the music and crowd to a whole new level. Anyways, that the way its always done....and probably, will stay. When wierwille enters, he takes his chair and is flanked by the corps coordinator. Another couple of logs are placed on the fire to set the atmosphere, and the crickets chirp in the woods.
About an hour into the nightowl, as the serenity of the evening was peaking....none of us could foresee what was about to erupt! In the shadows behind wierwille was his aide, his bodyguard whose two-way radio blurted and screeched in the quiet night air. The "atmosphere" of the whole evening came to an abrupt halt; a meticulously planned nightowl was broken in an instant. Wierwille could NOT contain his anger. He unleashed this tempest and castigated him relentlessly for about five minutes.
This bodyguard was the same man wierwille had praised months before by saying, "He stands by my side, because he doesn't take sh!t from no one." So, the irony of this night loomed large as wierwille couldn't help but verbally attack his right-hand man. Why couldn't vpw just cover for the mistake? Or, better yet.....call attention to it as a big ooops! and move on? What made it so awkward was that wierwille was "caught in the headlights" and couldn't adjust to the moment. So, his anger came front and center!! To me, this fury revealed wierwille's character....something he worked a lifetime to hide.
The bodyguard? From what I heard from hq-staffers the next day, he packed up and left.
Never saw him again.
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waysider
The guy was a phoney, an actor. He found himself, center stage, in the heat of a crucial scene, with his fly open. Why people continue to idolize and exalt this bum is beyond comprehension.
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chockfull
And this is the fruit by which Jesus instructed his followers to know people. Wierwille and Okie had the outward appearances of the tirades, curse words, and verbal tongue-dressings. The current administration has it with extreme administrative actions to denigrate, slander, blackball all done behind closed doors and via henchmen, with meetings in private and silent of director's boards where they conspire to perform the evil in their hearts.
A mature genuine Christian leader in a situation like that would have joked about "how did those crickets get radios?" and moved on with compassion and grace. A mature genuine Christian leader does not hold grudges, compile blacklists, and move in their heart to conspire against their brother or sister, to bring up false testimony and to execute false judgements. They would not verbally embaress a right hand supporter in front of an audience causing them to experience that level of shame and embaressment. That is not the fruit of the spirit.
By their fruit know them. The fruit of TWI leaders is that of spoiled little children not accustomed to disciplining themselves to have a moral Christian character, but living by their spoiled little consciences.
Edited by chockfullLink to comment
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johniam
quote: I always find it ironic how you, johniam, come to wierwille's defense.
I find it "ironic" that you start a thread about fiery confrontations and dissenting leadership, yet, you execute fiery confrontation when I dissent. I wonder how loud your voice would be if you spoke (yelled) what you post to me. Plus, I all but agreed with you about VP yelling. He never yelled at me, but if he had, I might feel much differently about him.
quote: I can't possibly take your post as credible
when you twist the scriptures and distort their meanings.
Credibility? You seem to have a socialistic view of credibility. Like you think if someone has too much credibility then there's not enough of it for others. And I might have too much. I don't think it works that way. You think you're waaaaaay up there and VP is waaaaay down here and when I poke holes in your moral superiority it reveals a level playing field which you refuse to concede.
Jesus did yell at Peter. He called him satan for impact. There's plenty of scripture in which it plainly says there was a spirit present when Jesus confronted it. Not when he said to peter get thee behind me satan. Perhaps YOU are the one who is twisting scripture. Sometimes people say blasphemous things because there's a spirit present; other times people say things because they have bad thinking habits and there doesn't have to be a spirit present.
Personally, I don't like being yelled at and I don't like yelling at people.
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skyrider
chockfull.....exactly!
"A mature genuine Christian leader in a situation like that would have joked about "how did those crickets get radios?" and moved on with compassion and grace." Or,...."Sounds like Jim bumped the volume knob on that two-way gizmo he carried with him....Aw, Jim, it happens to us all.....nobody's perfect, except the last guy that got outta here some 2,000 years ago."
The INTENSE ANGER revealed wierwille's character.
Why do you think Martindale and Geer were known to be racheted so tight? These two men were the product of years of intensity, anger, and control. And, how did THAT work out?
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Twinky
I've been in church meetings (real church!) when there have been little glitches - equipment doesn't work as it should, something starts when it shouldn't, the wrong words on the PowerPoint screen... and such things have always been handled most graciously - either no comment, or a good-humoured comment that so smooths the difficulty that you'd almost think it enhances the occasion.
So very different from the nit-picky screamfests about not being sharp enough, not paying attention to detail, neh neh neh neh and making such an issue out of it that everyone freaks out and all they remember is how [name] got reamed out. Any positive impact or teaching is immediately overridden.
Was it merely uncontrolled anger? Or was it in reality very carefully controlled anger, to elicit maximum stress and fear in the hearts of watchers - in case they themselves did something wrong. Perhaps it was a bit of both.
Can't speak for VPW, was dead before I heard of TWI.
But I endured enough screamfests from LCM. I'd handle those differently now (especially the personal face to face conftontations). Would get me slung out even quicker!!!
LCM was manipulative too. I had a very quiet confrontation with him once. He looked at me so pained and I was told I was giving him sleepless nights with my conduct. He really didn't know why God kept putting up with me, but he (LCM) wasn't going to throw me out yet. I can't remember all the details now. It was (because he was so quiet and "patient" and "reasonable") all the more devastating.
I think my crime was speaking to a male member of staff on more than a few occasions.
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