Her and T0m were very mean spirited. In the 90s when he was way of the usa coordinator Craig put him through the wringer. It only made them meaner. When they went to Texas and were region coordinators the wreaked havoc the branch and limb folks who were working for them.
Oh, yeah.......the L@llys were assistant trunk coordinators before Craig got pi$$ed with trunk guy, Mich@el F0rt, and trashed him on a corps meeting. Remember the "revelation" LCM said he got.....something about "a picture of Mich@el with holes thru his body" MEANING that he, Mich@el and the trunk dept, were like a sieve (a utensil to strain particles) and DEVIL SPIRITS WERE BLOWING RIGHT THRU HIM AND THE TRUNK TO GET TO CRAIG?
See.....Tom and Barb stepped into the Trunk Office to PROVE that they had the fortitude to withstand all onslaughts for Craig!! The L@llys never saw the manipulative snare that martindale laid before them......they sold their souls to twi!
Wierwille did this stuff to martindale and geer.
Martindale did the same stuff to the L@llys.
Rosalie is doing same to her cabinet men.
Note: Mich@el F0rt, son-in-law of Howard Allen......was demoted to Indiana Limb coordinator. As far as I know, he chose to step away from that assignment around 2004 to pursue secular employment. Still involved with twi....but not on payroll. AFAIK
Remember the "revelation" LCM said he got.....something about "a picture of Mich@el with holes thru his body" MEANING that he, Mich@el and the trunk dept, were like a sieve (a utensil to strain particles) and DEVIL SPIRITS WERE BLOWING RIGHT THRU HIM AND THE TRUNK TO GET TO CRAIG?
Yeah, well I got a couple pictures of LCM. first - him in his smoking jacket that he wore after completing videoing the FNC, with an embroidered message on the chest pocket that says "I wanna be like Hef". And another picture of him in a UPS uniform slinging boxes in the back room.
No revelation involved. Just comedic mental images.
Note: Mich@el F0rt, son-in-law of Howard Allen......was demoted to Indiana Limb coordinator. As far as I know, he chose to step away from that assignment around 2004 to pursue secular employment. Still involved with twi....but not on payroll. AFAIK
Also, they wanted him to do the limb of Kentucky and he refused. Seems he is still ....ed at Rosalie. Rosalie trashed him as well. My wife said she gave a lecture citing him as the illustration of what not to be. All the while he was in the way of the USA.
MEANING that he, Mich@el and the trunk dept, were like a sieve (a utensil to strain particles) and DEVIL SPIRITS WERE BLOWING RIGHT THRU HIM AND THE TRUNK TO GET TO CRAIG?
Yep, anything that inconvenienced Craig was devil spirit caused. He was a real idiot. Heck, he made male workers that were in the Chalet sit down to pee because he didn't want to hear.
Remember the "revelation" LCM said he got.....something about "a picture of Mich@el with holes thru his body" MEANING that he, Mich@el and the trunk dept, were like a sieve (a utensil to strain particles) and DEVIL SPIRITS WERE BLOWING RIGHT THRU HIM AND THE TRUNK TO GET TO CRAIG?
Yeah......Mich@el F0rt can be added to the list of "Fiery Confrontations."
Although my corps assignment was many states away.....I vaguely remember the scuttlebutt that led up to this character assassination on corps night. We were on phone hook-up when the Forehead hammered michael to a pulp.
It wasn't quite the vehement intensity of the wierwille confrontations that I witnessed, but then again.....I wasn't in the room. But nonetheless.....when the mantle-given mog decrees that HE GOT REVELATION of "devil spirits blowing right thru the trunk coordinator" its doesn't have the possessed label on it, but what else would you call it?
Mich@el F0rt was ordered to stay away from the corps meeting that night and listen from audio pumped to OSC location. So, there ya go, martindale gives a scathing report of "Mich@el's degenerated spiritual status".....and the corps are to fall in line accordingly. One big thumping of grandiose manipulation!!!
I know it's been a long time and things have changed since 1983, but at that time, when I was in the interim Corps on staff at HQ, Michael Fort was the one of the kindest, most helpful, most Godly men I had known to that point in my life. It makes me so angry to think that the Forehead and the lesb!an had the nerve to denounce him. Admittedly, they took their toll on that young man ... I read a letter he sent in 1995 to a good friend, former Way clergy telling him he (the man) would be dead in two years ... for the so-called sin of daring to doubt the Trustees' debt teaching and his refusal to move away from an area where he, as an only son, was responsible for care of his aging, homebound mother. When he let me read that letter, it made me very sad to see what Michael f@rt had become at the time ... I'm glad he got to get out and get secular employment. He was a good man who was treated badly ....IMHO.
As I said, that was 1982-85 and things changed. By the way, the "gonna be dead in two years" fellow is alive and well, enjoying his four grandchildren and still teaching the Bible ...
I know it's been a long time and things have changed since 1983, but at that time, when I was in the interim Corps on staff at HQ, Michael F0rt was the one of the kindest, most helpful, most Godly men I had known to that point in my life. It makes me so angry to think that the Forehead and the lesb!an had the nerve to denounce him. Admittedly, they took their toll on that young man ...
Indeed.......12 year of upper-level, legalize-lording of leeches and the transformation is shockingly apparent.
Also, they wanted him to do the limb of Kentucky and he refused. Seems he is still ....ed at Rosalie. Rosalie trashed him as well. My wife said she gave a lecture citing him as the illustration of what not to be. All the while he was in the way of the USA.
The twi-directors think that corps haven't figured out the DIRTY LITTLE GAME OF DEMOTION......but most have.
It goes like this.......corps individual starts to assert his own decisions (maybe good decisions, maybe not)...
....upper leadership starts to realize that corps individual is not "tied to the hip" and taking orders
....small, snipy confrontation in private is the upper leader's first line of "correcting" corps assertiveness
....if corps individual keeps confidence/assertiveness....then, a group confrontation is needed
....if corps guy STILL knows he's right and won't budge...then, all hell rains down on him to "humble" him
....if contention persist, then corps guy is sent packing (demoted) for DAMAGE CONTROL PURPOSES
You see, twi couldn't give Michael the bums-rush outta hq.....IT WOULD RAISE TOO MANY FLAGS
So.....twi-directors utilized DEMOTING Michael in stages......and THAT folks is the dirty little game they play.
Note: The scriptures give method of "trespassing against another" [Matt 18:15-17]....but is one to be "cast out
as a heathen" for trying to assert individual authority in a cult?
If I remember correctly, Michael had already BEEN the Kentucky Limb coordinator back in 1980-81.
If I remember correctly, Michael had already BEEN the Kentucky Limb coordinator back in 1980-81.
I could have worded a little better. They tried to "promote" him from branch in Indy to limb of Kentucky. Rosalie was livid by the way. A lot of people refused their assignments that year and the little blue hair did not take well to it. Either way your points stand and are accurate.
I could have worded a little better. They tried to "promote" him from branch in Indy to limb of Kentucky. Rosalie was livid by the way. A lot of people refused their assignments that year and the little blue hair did not take well to it. Either way your points stand and are accurate.
OldSkool.....hey, I wasn't trying to correct what you were saying...just giving more background as to why Michael
might NOT have wanted to go back to Kentucky. I have no idea what escalated the Martindale vs Michael confrontation
that played out on Corps Night for all to see/hear.
To me, one of the most telling truths from this whole ordeal......Martindale labels Michael F. possessed as devil spirits
are "blowing right thru him"....and yet, Michael & Cindy were assigned INDIANA LIMB COORDINATORS.
How does a "possessed" man get assigned to run a Limb?
For all my time in TWI, they gave more power and control to Satan abilities, and mere lip-service to Jesus. They constantly talked about possession. They have no business calling themselves Christians! They are a satanic organization.
I've often wondered if LCM's kids have walked away...quietly...and feel tremendous sorrow and pity for having the parent they never asked for or deserved.
OldSkool.....hey, I wasn't trying to correct what you were saying...
Oh, I wouldn't mind if you were. It wasn't anything you said, the way I worded things made it sound like the context of the second chance at the limb of Kentucky was when he was the way of the usa coord.
For all my time in TWI, they gave more power and control to Satan abilities, and mere lip-service to Jesus. They constantly talked about possession. They have no business calling themselves Christians!
Rejoice......twi is NOT christian, it's wierwillian.
The way of a shepherd with His sheep (ref Psalm 23) does not = what we grew to live with in twi.
Kind of like the frog in a pot of water with the heat on -- he slowly gets cooked and doesn't realize it until it's too late to jump out.
On a facebook discussion, I brought up Del Duncan's name and different people responded. I think Del Duncan showed the face of Jesus Christ to a lot of people -- His kindness, His happiness with our presence in His company, His desire to see us healthy, happy and whole. Del Duncan and Michael Martin certainly brought Jesus Christ alive into my life.
And I was thinking that Del lured a lot of people into that twi place by the real presence of God in which he lived. Then after Del and others who lived in the presence of the Lord were gone, many were (including me) like the frog being cooked -- we stayed until our goose was cooked, and depending upon how cooked we were before we escaped that twi place, had differing levels of dead meat to get revitalized by the Lord.
But never never never did those yelling things help. Jesus never yells at me no matter how stupid I am. One time when I was still at Rome City one guy was going to yell at me and had his mouth open ready to "let er rip," and I told the Holy Spirit if he did so I was leaving -- the guy looked at me and just shut his mouth and walked away.
My time at Rome City was precious to me because of the Bible time I was able to soak in (When I left Rome City my "WOW" year was a hell on earth and then after getting kicked out of the "corpse" I went back to full time working at a job, cleaning. doing laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc. etc. and didn't have that luxury to read and study and soak in Bible stuff.)
I got yelled at myself a few times by twi leaders, but nothing I'd call venomous. VP seemed to have huge expectations for corps and clergy. Ironic, considering that part of pfal where he says he spent a week with a man who said he didn't sin, but he could get real angry and yell. There are times when people get angry and yell in or out of twi. That's just people. But I can't say VP was justified for any of that; I never saw him do it. Perhaps if I did I might feel differently.
I have seen way too many people ganged up on and character assassinated in TWI, with yelling and curse words. It has happened throughout the decades and under all of the different TWI presidents. It's probably worse currently as they lie and say it doesn't happen now. I have seen it happen with VP and LCM directly. I've seen it happen with Rosalie, however Rosalie is a coward - she usually has her cronies do it for her to keep her lilly-white sepulcher hands whitewashed.
It's all venom, all slander, all trumped up BS "sins" piled on the person, then sending them away or casting them out. What my mind has gone to time after time immediately after witnessing one of these so-called meetings and character assassinations is the account of the scapegoat in the OT - pile all the sins of Israel on one little goat as a sacrifice, then send it out into the wilderness to die on its own.
It's very sick, and represents the darker side of what human nature is capable of. All under the guise of speaking for God.
I've seen it happen with Rosalie, however Rosalie is a coward - she usually has her cronies do it for her to keep her lilly-white sepulcher hands whitewashed.
This happened to me. Rosalie used two directors (not at the same time) to come after me over a period of a year and six months. It was a very nasty time.
I've seen it happen with Rosalie, however Rosalie is a coward - she usually has her cronies do it for her to keep her lilly-white sepulcher hands whitewashed.
It's all venom, all slander, all trumped up BS "sins" piled on the person, then sending them away or casting them out. What my mind has gone to time after time immediately after witnessing one of these so-called meetings and character assassinations is the account of the scapegoat in the OT - pile all the sins of Israel on one little goat as a sacrifice, then send it out into the wilderness to die on its own.
It's very sick, and represents the darker side of what human nature is capable of. All under the guise of speaking for God.
When the transition was made to RFR as president I heard so many people say "Isn't it great that no one has the absolute rule that LCM had? RFR has spread out the decision making. Safety in a multitude of counselors!" At first I bought into this. But then I noticed that nothing was ever done without my coordinator checking it all the way back up the way tree eventually to RFR and all directives seemed to be instigated by her. IMO she is a coward, unwilling to take accountability for her beliefs and decisions. She always has others do her speaking. There's no public record of RFR saying anything.
By the way, my BC in the 90's was the type who would openly say "This directive comes from HQ. I don't know why they want this but this is what they want." when things that he didn't understand would come down from HQ. Once, he corrected himself after saying that and said "I'm not supposed to say this anymore. M. Fort got reamed for saying this." Maybe this is a little insight as to why M. Fort got drug over the coals. I had some interaction with M. Fort back in the late 80's and he seemed very kind and spoke honestly about things that concerned him that I also had concerns about. This gave me hope that there were leaders who knew there were issues that needed to be corrected and were working on it. In the early 2000's I ran into him at a regional conference and expressed my dismay at some of the things I was seeing. M. Fort was a different guy then. He was fully on board with the way things were headed. Would not entertain any contrary thoughts. I was very disappointed and that period of time was the beginning of the end for me.
The one I always felt the most sorry for was Mrs. vp. When she shared that story of trying to get vp's attention by waving a handkerchief through the curtain because she was afraid of his temper. . . I was always sorry for her for the havoc he must have wrecked upon her. She always seemed to me to be one who wanted nothing more than to serve the Lord and His people. For certainly woulda coulda shoulda are powerless thoughts...
In my secular job we had conference call training sessions for all of the coprorate internal audit teams. In 2011 we studied "Snakes in Suits," which was a most enlightening review of psychopaths in the corporate world. I didn't know vp personally enough to be able to classify him, but reading that book did help me understand one twi who became ex-twi person who had caused me much grief because the author was able to unravel the thought patterns that produced the behavior.
It is true that the truth sets you free, and "Snakes in Suits" has some good information about the psychopathic mind, how it thinks and what such a person can and will do.
When the transition was made to RFR as president I heard so many people say "Isn't it great that no one has the absolute rule that LCM had? RFR has spread out the decision making. Safety in a multitude of counselors!" At first I bought into this. But then I noticed that nothing was ever done without my coordinator checking it all the way back up the way tree eventually to RFR and all directives seemed to be instigated by her. IMO she is a coward, unwilling to take accountability for her beliefs and decisions. She always has others do her speaking. There's no public record of RFR saying anything.
By the way, my BC in the 90's was the type who would openly say "This directive comes from HQ. I don't know why they want this but this is what they want." when things that he didn't understand would come down from HQ. Once, he corrected himself after saying that and said "I'm not supposed to say this anymore. M. Fort got reamed for saying this." Maybe this is a little insight as to why M. Fort got drug over the coals. I had some interaction with M. Fort back in the late 80's and he seemed very kind and spoke honestly about things that concerned him that I also had concerns about. This gave me hope that there were leaders who knew there were issues that needed to be corrected and were working on it. In the early 2000's I ran into him at a regional conference and expressed my dismay at some of the things I was seeing. M. Fort was a different guy then. He was fully on board with the way things were headed. Would not entertain any contrary thoughts. I was very disappointed and that period of time was the beginning of the end for me.
The ABSOLUTE RULE OF WIERWILLE was one of many false doctrines promulgated by wierwille.
The ABSOLUTE RULE OF MARTINDALE was the continuation of wierwille's abusive authoritarian rule.
The ABSOLUTE RULE OF RIVENBARK is concealed in a reporting-back style of command chain doctrine.
The ABSOLUTE RULE OF NEXT-GROOMED-MOG will be a continuation of twi's evil and abuse.
Micromanaging followers with directives and policies is NOT 'freedom in Christ' or walking by the spirit.
And, with each passing decade......twi is waxing worse and worse. Far removed from any Christian substance
or practical application, twi is taking its followers into a spiralling drain hole of vanity.
Twi was methodically built on a man-made foundation that has been crumbling since its inception.
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dabobbada
Foolish mortals, have ye no fear THE living god???!! Look at the early old testament books of Waydale and I and II Greasespot and tremble!! Once unleased, THE noun rose up into godhood and took poss
OldSkool
Jesus cast out spirits and kept the people, the way international has cast out the people and kept the spirits. (I dunno, sounded pithy enough to post )
skyrider
Jim.....thanks for verifying this incident. Wierwille-defenders like to turn the tables on whoever brings solid testimony of wierwille's wrath and character. Just like wierwille's wrecked twig-hop
skyrider
Oh, yeah.......the L@llys were assistant trunk coordinators before Craig got pi$$ed with trunk guy, Mich@el F0rt, and trashed him on a corps meeting. Remember the "revelation" LCM said he got.....something about "a picture of Mich@el with holes thru his body" MEANING that he, Mich@el and the trunk dept, were like a sieve (a utensil to strain particles) and DEVIL SPIRITS WERE BLOWING RIGHT THRU HIM AND THE TRUNK TO GET TO CRAIG?
See.....Tom and Barb stepped into the Trunk Office to PROVE that they had the fortitude to withstand all onslaughts for Craig!! The L@llys never saw the manipulative snare that martindale laid before them......they sold their souls to twi!
Wierwille did this stuff to martindale and geer.
Martindale did the same stuff to the L@llys.
Rosalie is doing same to her cabinet men.
Note: Mich@el F0rt, son-in-law of Howard Allen......was demoted to Indiana Limb coordinator. As far as I know, he chose to step away from that assignment around 2004 to pursue secular employment. Still involved with twi....but not on payroll. AFAIK
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chockfull
Yeah, well I got a couple pictures of LCM. first - him in his smoking jacket that he wore after completing videoing the FNC, with an embroidered message on the chest pocket that says "I wanna be like Hef". And another picture of him in a UPS uniform slinging boxes in the back room.
No revelation involved. Just comedic mental images.
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OldSkool
Also, they wanted him to do the limb of Kentucky and he refused. Seems he is still ....ed at Rosalie. Rosalie trashed him as well. My wife said she gave a lecture citing him as the illustration of what not to be. All the while he was in the way of the USA.
Yep, anything that inconvenienced Craig was devil spirit caused. He was a real idiot. Heck, he made male workers that were in the Chalet sit down to pee because he didn't want to hear.
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skyrider
Yeah......Mich@el F0rt can be added to the list of "Fiery Confrontations."
Although my corps assignment was many states away.....I vaguely remember the scuttlebutt that led up to this character assassination on corps night. We were on phone hook-up when the Forehead hammered michael to a pulp.
It wasn't quite the vehement intensity of the wierwille confrontations that I witnessed, but then again.....I wasn't in the room. But nonetheless.....when the mantle-given mog decrees that HE GOT REVELATION of "devil spirits blowing right thru the trunk coordinator" its doesn't have the possessed label on it, but what else would you call it?
Mich@el F0rt was ordered to stay away from the corps meeting that night and listen from audio pumped to OSC location. So, there ya go, martindale gives a scathing report of "Mich@el's degenerated spiritual status".....and the corps are to fall in line accordingly. One big thumping of grandiose manipulation!!!
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DogLover
I know it's been a long time and things have changed since 1983, but at that time, when I was in the interim Corps on staff at HQ, Michael Fort was the one of the kindest, most helpful, most Godly men I had known to that point in my life. It makes me so angry to think that the Forehead and the lesb!an had the nerve to denounce him. Admittedly, they took their toll on that young man ... I read a letter he sent in 1995 to a good friend, former Way clergy telling him he (the man) would be dead in two years ... for the so-called sin of daring to doubt the Trustees' debt teaching and his refusal to move away from an area where he, as an only son, was responsible for care of his aging, homebound mother. When he let me read that letter, it made me very sad to see what Michael f@rt had become at the time ... I'm glad he got to get out and get secular employment. He was a good man who was treated badly ....IMHO.
As I said, that was 1982-85 and things changed. By the way, the "gonna be dead in two years" fellow is alive and well, enjoying his four grandchildren and still teaching the Bible ...
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skyrider
Indeed.......12 year of upper-level, legalize-lording of leeches and the transformation is shockingly apparent.
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skyrider
The twi-directors think that corps haven't figured out the DIRTY LITTLE GAME OF DEMOTION......but most have.
It goes like this.......corps individual starts to assert his own decisions (maybe good decisions, maybe not)...
....upper leadership starts to realize that corps individual is not "tied to the hip" and taking orders
....small, snipy confrontation in private is the upper leader's first line of "correcting" corps assertiveness
....if corps individual keeps confidence/assertiveness....then, a group confrontation is needed
....if corps guy STILL knows he's right and won't budge...then, all hell rains down on him to "humble" him
....if contention persist, then corps guy is sent packing (demoted) for DAMAGE CONTROL PURPOSES
You see, twi couldn't give Michael the bums-rush outta hq.....IT WOULD RAISE TOO MANY FLAGS
So.....twi-directors utilized DEMOTING Michael in stages......and THAT folks is the dirty little game they play.
Note: The scriptures give method of "trespassing against another" [Matt 18:15-17]....but is one to be "cast out
as a heathen" for trying to assert individual authority in a cult?
If I remember correctly, Michael had already BEEN the Kentucky Limb coordinator back in 1980-81.
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skyrider
THE DECEPTION FACTOR AT HQ.....
1) Martindale gives "revelation" that Michael has devil spirits blowing thru him......ie POSSESSED.
2) This major confrontation is handled on corps night.....inrez corps AND corps grads hear this.
3) To not rattle USA trunk (suspicions)....Michael & Cindy are demoted to Indiana Limb coordinators.
4) So......trustees give "possessed" guy a Limb position to oversee.
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OldSkool
I could have worded a little better. They tried to "promote" him from branch in Indy to limb of Kentucky. Rosalie was livid by the way. A lot of people refused their assignments that year and the little blue hair did not take well to it. Either way your points stand and are accurate.
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skyrider
OldSkool.....hey, I wasn't trying to correct what you were saying...just giving more background as to why Michael
might NOT have wanted to go back to Kentucky. I have no idea what escalated the Martindale vs Michael confrontation
that played out on Corps Night for all to see/hear.
To me, one of the most telling truths from this whole ordeal......Martindale labels Michael F. possessed as devil spirits
are "blowing right thru him"....and yet, Michael & Cindy were assigned INDIANA LIMB COORDINATORS.
How does a "possessed" man get assigned to run a Limb?
Did someone cast out the spirits?
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Rejoice
For all my time in TWI, they gave more power and control to Satan abilities, and mere lip-service to Jesus. They constantly talked about possession. They have no business calling themselves Christians! They are a satanic organization.
I've often wondered if LCM's kids have walked away...quietly...and feel tremendous sorrow and pity for having the parent they never asked for or deserved.
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OldSkool
Oh, I wouldn't mind if you were.
It wasn't anything you said, the way I worded things made it sound like the context of the second chance at the limb of Kentucky was when he was the way of the usa coord.
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skyrider
Thanks....same goes here.
During that 1993-1997 period........santify purge, homo purge, non-productive evil purge, debt purge, salted purge,
promised land purge,.......martindale kept raising the bar of what twi expected from "their" followers. At times, I
had raised my concerns for some of these issues to corps clergy.
The "Mich@el F0rt confrontation" was another one of those DISAPPOINTING AND YET, ASSERTING MOMENTS.....where I could not swallow
twi's company line. Nope. No thanks. Don't believe it. Someone's being railroaded for a reason.
ANOTHER DIRTY LITTLE SECRET IN TWI.....if you are long-standing corps leadership and chose to exit, they will smear your good
reputation. Twi cannot allow you to assert individual authority......and leave. They MUST verbally assault you, because as long
as you have access to "their" people....you are an enemy of twi. Been there, done that!
After we left......the assaulting began. Within 16 hours, the Region coordinator couple was in our city. All day long, they held
meetings with corps, then with advanced class grads......see the pattern? Top-down control.....then, the others follow. That's
been the pattern of indoctrination since the wierwille days. By day two, ANOTHER REGION GUY showed up to join them. Strong-armed
thuggery is the way things are done when dissenting leadership speak out!
After we left and the martindale lawsuits couldn't mask twi anymore....high ranking couples headed for the exit doors!!!
Rev. T&B L@lly [Region Leaders in TX].....left in the middle of night, no forward address
Rev. D. S@iler [President's Cabinet]......left twi
Rev. A. L1cht [Region Leader in FL]......cut ties and gone!
Rev. P. M0squeda [Region Leader/Corps Coordinator]......"praise be to LCM" was gone!
Rev. L. P@narello [Trunk/Region Guy]......the biggest cheerleader for Martindale after "fog yrs" left in 2002
There were more, but you get the message......and still others stayed in twi. Everyone has to assimilate this information together
with their experiences and what was swirling around them at the time. Rev. B. Th0rp and others found the exit in 2004 or so....and
that's how dissenting leadership KEEP FINDING THE EXIT DOORS....
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skyrider
Rejoice......twi is NOT christian, it's wierwillian.
Devil here, devil there,
Devil in your desk drawer,
Dealing with the Adversary dealt to us,
Born of the seed of the Serpent...oh, the fuss,
Tripped out, cop-out...
What's wierwille talking about?
Where's God in all of this?
With Him, we overcome....what did I miss?
Greater is He, for all to see,
Keep Him first, bend a knee,
Wierwille yelled and held The Book,
Yet, in God I trust...to Him I look.
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waysider
My kingdom for a beatbox.
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Kit Sober
The way of a shepherd with His sheep (ref Psalm 23) does not = what we grew to live with in twi.
Kind of like the frog in a pot of water with the heat on -- he slowly gets cooked and doesn't realize it until it's too late to jump out.
On a facebook discussion, I brought up Del Duncan's name and different people responded. I think Del Duncan showed the face of Jesus Christ to a lot of people -- His kindness, His happiness with our presence in His company, His desire to see us healthy, happy and whole. Del Duncan and Michael Martin certainly brought Jesus Christ alive into my life.
And I was thinking that Del lured a lot of people into that twi place by the real presence of God in which he lived. Then after Del and others who lived in the presence of the Lord were gone, many were (including me) like the frog being cooked -- we stayed until our goose was cooked, and depending upon how cooked we were before we escaped that twi place, had differing levels of dead meat to get revitalized by the Lord.
But never never never did those yelling things help. Jesus never yells at me no matter how stupid I am. One time when I was still at Rome City one guy was going to yell at me and had his mouth open ready to "let er rip," and I told the Holy Spirit if he did so I was leaving -- the guy looked at me and just shut his mouth and walked away.
My time at Rome City was precious to me because of the Bible time I was able to soak in (When I left Rome City my "WOW" year was a hell on earth and then after getting kicked out of the "corpse" I went back to full time working at a job, cleaning. doing laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc. etc. and didn't have that luxury to read and study and soak in Bible stuff.)
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chockfull
I have seen way too many people ganged up on and character assassinated in TWI, with yelling and curse words. It has happened throughout the decades and under all of the different TWI presidents. It's probably worse currently as they lie and say it doesn't happen now. I have seen it happen with VP and LCM directly. I've seen it happen with Rosalie, however Rosalie is a coward - she usually has her cronies do it for her to keep her lilly-white sepulcher hands whitewashed.
It's all venom, all slander, all trumped up BS "sins" piled on the person, then sending them away or casting them out. What my mind has gone to time after time immediately after witnessing one of these so-called meetings and character assassinations is the account of the scapegoat in the OT - pile all the sins of Israel on one little goat as a sacrifice, then send it out into the wilderness to die on its own.
It's very sick, and represents the darker side of what human nature is capable of. All under the guise of speaking for God.
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OldSkool
This happened to me. Rosalie used two directors (not at the same time) to come after me over a period of a year and six months. It was a very nasty time.
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PatAnswer
When the transition was made to RFR as president I heard so many people say "Isn't it great that no one has the absolute rule that LCM had? RFR has spread out the decision making. Safety in a multitude of counselors!" At first I bought into this. But then I noticed that nothing was ever done without my coordinator checking it all the way back up the way tree eventually to RFR and all directives seemed to be instigated by her. IMO she is a coward, unwilling to take accountability for her beliefs and decisions. She always has others do her speaking. There's no public record of RFR saying anything.
By the way, my BC in the 90's was the type who would openly say "This directive comes from HQ. I don't know why they want this but this is what they want." when things that he didn't understand would come down from HQ. Once, he corrected himself after saying that and said "I'm not supposed to say this anymore. M. Fort got reamed for saying this." Maybe this is a little insight as to why M. Fort got drug over the coals. I had some interaction with M. Fort back in the late 80's and he seemed very kind and spoke honestly about things that concerned him that I also had concerns about. This gave me hope that there were leaders who knew there were issues that needed to be corrected and were working on it. In the early 2000's I ran into him at a regional conference and expressed my dismay at some of the things I was seeing. M. Fort was a different guy then. He was fully on board with the way things were headed. Would not entertain any contrary thoughts. I was very disappointed and that period of time was the beginning of the end for me.
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excathedra
--
outieboutie, every time i think of your story, it makes me cry
--
i've been fired, sneered (is that a word) across the country on tape, etc., etc.
but no one knows the real story which is quite innocent, but rivendark was behind it all
and now how do i feel (after years of feeling like crap after giving my love and life) -- here's how i feel - sad
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Kit Sober
The one I always felt the most sorry for was Mrs. vp. When she shared that story of trying to get vp's attention by waving a handkerchief through the curtain because she was afraid of his temper. . . I was always sorry for her for the havoc he must have wrecked upon her. She always seemed to me to be one who wanted nothing more than to serve the Lord and His people. For certainly woulda coulda shoulda are powerless thoughts...
In my secular job we had conference call training sessions for all of the coprorate internal audit teams. In 2011 we studied "Snakes in Suits," which was a most enlightening review of psychopaths in the corporate world. I didn't know vp personally enough to be able to classify him, but reading that book did help me understand one twi who became ex-twi person who had caused me much grief because the author was able to unravel the thought patterns that produced the behavior.
It is true that the truth sets you free, and "Snakes in Suits" has some good information about the psychopathic mind, how it thinks and what such a person can and will do.
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JavaJane
Snakes in Suits also helped me a lot when I got out.
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excathedra
Snakes in Suits
thanks, never heard of it, will check it out
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skyrider
The ABSOLUTE RULE OF WIERWILLE was one of many false doctrines promulgated by wierwille.
The ABSOLUTE RULE OF MARTINDALE was the continuation of wierwille's abusive authoritarian rule.
The ABSOLUTE RULE OF RIVENBARK is concealed in a reporting-back style of command chain doctrine.
The ABSOLUTE RULE OF NEXT-GROOMED-MOG will be a continuation of twi's evil and abuse.
Micromanaging followers with directives and policies is NOT 'freedom in Christ' or walking by the spirit.
And, with each passing decade......twi is waxing worse and worse. Far removed from any Christian substance
or practical application, twi is taking its followers into a spiralling drain hole of vanity.
Twi was methodically built on a man-made foundation that has been crumbling since its inception.
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