I've never understood TWI's passion for slandering Job. It's almost like they took glee in blaming him for his calamities.
Of course, finding fault is one way for a narcissist to hold himself up as something better than what he's criticizing, and what better way for a cult leader to prop himself up than to point out the flaws in someone the Bible calls "blameless and upright."
It's of a piece, also, of the magical "Word Faith" system. They rewrote songs to include it. I also noticed recently that when they used parts of traditional songs, they always skipped any verse that suggested we might have trouble. Actually, I noticed it a long time ago with "I Know Who Holds Tomorrow." The missing verse says that tomorrow "may bring me poverty, but the One who feeds the sparrow is the one that cares for me..." Can't speak of any kind of trouble- or you're blamed when it arrives. Can't plan for trouble, either, that's "thinking negatively."
I've completely abandoned the "Word Faith" theology. Took me a while but I finally got it out of my head several years ago. If Job was ultimately at fault for his problems then I guess we are supposed to believe that Peter & Paul were themselves at fault when they were executed by Nero during the mid-60s AD as well as all the Christian martyrs throughout history. It's along the lines of blaming the victim and a reason not to help people who are going through a tough time. "I'm not going to help you. You just need to believe dammit!"
Jesus TOLD his disciples that they would have trouble. There was no "but if you believe, there will be no trouble" or "if you believe, the trouble will vanish" or anything like that.
As has been said before, by putting the blame on Job, twi aligned themselves with his miserable comforters.
Look- trusting God, believing God, is one thing. Believing in your own believing is something entirely different. Your will be done.
S#!t happens. You gonna let that take your faith away? You really shouldn't. He's still God.
I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm just saying, that's the upshot. Elihu rules!
One does not have to agree with something to understand it, and it's not impossible to fairly represent something with which you disagree. Naturally, I think I'm in the minority on that, but, as we see, I'm not the only one who says that. (Even when we disagree on other things. Then again, who agrees on EVERY thing?)
I was just discussing this topic with a life time & lifelong aethist whose stance was basically he could not lower himself to worshipping let alone loving a mass murder such as he thinks our Lord is/was. He sited several events (all in the old testament)..as my position on this is simply that God deals differently with the non-believer, now, than he did before Jesus & the sacrafice on the cross.. I know "God doesn't change"..but with a better covanant, could it be that he deals with people differently now in this administration?
I used the analogy of a mother bear & her cubs & no matter what it took (mass murder) that bear would fight to the death to protect what is her's..I believe it is the same with God...his chosen people. though stubborn & in unbelief at times...were mightily protected by God wiping out their enemies (via men typpically) although the parting of the Red sea was not man initiated..but God "doing his thing"
My point is..you don't see mass murder in the New Covanant..Jesus taught love and putting down the sword.quite a different & BETTER covanant..as God now deals with us as sons (not so much as servants) and with the "future believer" he makes quite an effort thru his sons & daughters on the planet to give them signs such as healings..to sway them out of the dark side..
Don't know if any of you ever watch "Thomas Fischer" on you tube & all the street healings going on..but its obvious that these different mockers who hate God & then get an instantaneous healing..once ministered to..that the healing alone might help them draw near to the Lord & go after God!!
The bible does predict that in the last days mighty signs would be on the earth..."signs miracles & wonders" I think is the way TWI coined it..it does open another can of worms..which might make a fun topic..can we have faith for another person..? VP said no..& most got talked out of ministering UNTIL that person would eventually choose to believe...I'm convince that having faith for another is the foundation for things like street healings that are all over youtube....you may say..its all fake, & yet I skyped Tom & he assurred me its the real deal..they video tape the healings & the how of approaching a "limping person" or someone in a wheelchair..a fun entertainment if nothing else as I hope a few of you do check it out!!
God not only reigns down judgement on bad people He also disciplines His followers. I thought I heard Hagan reference the idiom of permission but I could be wrong. If this idiom of permission were true how would you ever know if the Bible writer actually meant that God caused the judgement? An example
Genesis 6: 17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Suppose God was trying to say that yes he really did it not satan how could he tell us that if there is an idiom of permission? Why would satan destroy all the wickedness that he was promoting?
If you believe the idiom..then Satan is God's murderer for hire....really the bad that does happen to some..they bring on themselves...oher attacks are for real & perhaps well thought out by the demonic out there..not hired by God but them enjoying destroying people just like their "father of lies"..I daily (usually right when I jump out of bed) rebuke & cast out anything that is demonic that perhaps "got on me in the night' when my mind is open....if "they" aren't ordered to leave but persist..then I think they'll hang around & torment until we do rise up & take authority over them..if you don't believe you have authority over ALL demonic..then most likely you'll never rebuke it...if & when you do..I think you'll see some super results in areas that you finally quit "putting up with"...
BTW welcom Bill..this is a fun playground & much to re-think ..
"Why would satan destroy all the wickedness that he was promoting?"
I've found that some people do things even if we think they're senseless. "Since I can't come up with a reason for vpw to drug, rape and molest women, then he must not have." WHY something is done is not relevant to IF it is done. And we don't need to know someone's motive to WHY they do something to know THAT they did something. Healthy people don't think like psychopaths.
So, a reason for satan to destroy stuff? Well, there's reasons satan may WANT to. We know he was petty and vindictive, and wanted control over God's creation. So, one reason already given was to wipe out the line of the promised seed by wiping out EVERYONE. If you want to take out a target and don't care about collateral damage, you can obliterate the building they're in, and know they got killed in the process. That's one thing a psychopath might consider or do. Also, out of pettiness, he just might want to flaunt his control by showing that he controlled things to the point he could destroy them if he wanted- proving he could by doing it. According to some stories, the leader of the "assassins" did just such a thing once. When receiving a VIP, the VIP/diplomat asked- for his monarch- why they should go along with the assassins. Their leader turned to a follower next to him, and told him to kill himself. Immediately, he did so, and fell dead at their feet. Then the leader signaled to a lookout to jump from his vantage point and kill himself in a fall. Immediately, he did so. The leader then told about how many thousands of followers he claimed he had, all just as loyal. He made his point with the diplomat, who recommended the assassins be given a lot of leeway. A third, possible reason would be out of spite. Someone I want to anger likes something? I'll break it to make them unhappy. So, destroy the people and/or the Earth because it would make God unhappy. There's other POSSIBLE reasons. But, again, we don't need to KNOW someone's motive to know they did it. It helps us understand if we do, it helps with a trial of the perpetrator, but it's not required to know WHY the truth is the truth. So, "why" is not the most important question here.
"Why would satan destroy all the wickedness that he was promoting?"
In also answering Wordwolf's question, here is a biblical verse to at least consider.
Quote
2 Peter 2:4 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartaroo), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; KJV
A definition of the above Greek word tartaroo, in the KJV was translated as hell is the following.
Quote
Using Strong’s #5020, the definition for tartaroo is as follows: (tartaros, the name of a subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer punishment for their evil deeds; it answers to the Gehenna of the Jews, see geenna); to hold captive in Tartarus: (from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 2000 by Biblesoft)
In the future when the demons get blinded while being reserved for judgement. As long as they have the mindset of evil mixed with deception, since they will be blinded and not being able to see who they will be evil to. Then the demons could do this to each other.
An example of this is seen with Jesus Christ himself blinding someone named Saul who later became the Apostle Paul. This is read in Acts chapter 9. Saul was part of the persecution of the followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ spoke to him as read in Acts 9:4-6. Before this a light flashed around him.and he fell to the ground. Then Jesus spoke to him about Saul persecuting Him through the persecution of his followers. Then Saul was blinded. A few days later a follower of Jesus Christ came to him as directed by Jesus Christ and healed him of his temporary blindness. Saul then believed in Jesus Christ, received the gift of holy spirit and was renamed Paul. Paul later became a very knowledgeable Apostle Paul.
Another example of this is seen in Acts chapter 13. Followers of Jesus Christ including Saul who was also named Paul were spreading a knowledge of Jesus Christ. They met a person described as a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet. A sorcerer is a pretender of magic powers. This deceiving person tried to turn people away from faith in Jesus Christ. Paul noticed this and opposed this person who had a satanical greedy wanting religious power and authority mindset. This greedy not service oriented person was then blinded for a season as recorded in Acts 13:11. As a result they had more followers of Jesus Christ as a result of more teachings about Jesus Christ with less deception coming from the greedy power hungry religious political elite at least for a period of time.
"Why would satan destroy all the wickedness that he was promoting?"
In also answering Wordwolf's question, which was perhaps originated on this forum by Bill Rotach, below is a biblical verse to at least consider. Other verses are referred to for references in my comments that follow.
The below has improvement after editing the original written content seen above.
Quote
2 Peter 2:4 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartaroo), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; KJV
With darkness there are no burning flames of fire used for torture. Instead the chains of darkness symbolize a restriction on the sinful angels ability to see in order to deceive. Also the darkness the demons will experience in the future can also result in the demons being blinded so that they torture each other. This to me looks like their punishment. As an example this method of victory was used by God in an Israel war with the Midianites as seen in the book of Judges, chapter 7. Soldiers from Israel without the use of needed weapons defeated 15,000 Midianite soldiers. In Judges 7:22, 3000 Israelites simply blew trumpets and then the Lord God caused the Midianite soldiers to turn on each other with their weapons. Then only 300 soldiers were needed to finalize the defeat of the Midianites.
Using blindness in a more positive way is seen with Jesus Christ himself blinding someone named Saul who later became the Apostle Paul. This is read in Acts chapter 9. Saul was part of the persecution of the followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ spoke to him as read in Acts 9:4-6. Before this a light flashed around him and he fell to the ground. Then Jesus spoke to him about Saul persecuting Him through the persecution of his followers. Then Saul was blinded. A few days later a follower of Jesus Christ came to him as directed by Jesus Christ and healed him of his temporary blindness. Saul then believed in Jesus Christ, received the gift of holy spirit and later came to be also called Paul. Paul later became a very knowledgeable Apostle Paul.
Another example of this is seen in Acts chapter 13. Followers of Jesus Christ including Saul who as a Roman citizen was also named Paul were spreading the knowledge of Jesus Christ. They met a person described as a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet. A sorcerer is a pretender of magic powers. This deceiving person tried to turn people away from faith in Jesus Christ. Paul noticed this and opposed this person who had a satanical greedy wanting religious power and authority mindset. This greedy not service oriented person was then blinded for a season as recorded in Acts 13:11. As a result they had more followers of Jesus Christ as a result of more teachings about Jesus Christ with less deception coming from the greedy power hungry religious political elite at least for a period of time.
Here is a link to an article that also looks insightful. Or at least should be considered for its content. The person makes a reference to E.W Bullinger, the English biblical article writer that wrote a book on biblical figures of speech. And yes, we today also use what could be considered figures of speech in our wording and speaking. As an example, "it is raining cats and dogs", is not literal, but simply means it is raining hard.
Here is a link to an article that also looks insightful. Or at least should be considered for its content. The person makes a reference to E.W Bullinger, the English biblical article writer that wrote a book on biblical figures of speech. And yes, we today also use what could be considered figures of speech in our wording and speaking. As an example, "it is raining cats and dogs", is not literal, but simply means it is raining hard.
What Mr. Sebastian wrote in his blog is straight out of pfal. Almost verbatim.
Interesting therefore James must have been a member of the Way Ministry like most of us here. I knew someone from the Way Ministry also with last name Sebastian. First name of Phil. Sadly though, he passed away, died or is sleeping (figurative language as seen in 1 Thes. 4). Thank you for your feedback or information JayDee and jim jack.
Thankfully I was not a memeber (since according to TWI) you couldn't join it..lolol what a joke..I did run twig for many moons.went wow twice & have been unlearning alot of their BS for the past 30 years..& thriving! I was always accused of "bucking the leadership" so I probably fit in here BUT I refuse to play the victim of their "way mindset"....I can & have risen above it IMHO..yeh I knew of a Sebastian as well..& yeh it looks pretty pfalish to me as well..lol
What Mr. Sebastian wrote in his blog is straight out of pfal. Almost verbatim.
*sighs*
No, what he wrote in his blog is straight out of BULLINGER, almost verbatim. vpw isn't the only one who can read Bullinger and spit back what he wrote. At least one page shows a healthy respect for Bullinger, and their explanation about who they are sounds NOTHING like ex-twi. So, Bullinger is verbatim, but twi is not.
Thankfully I was not a memeber (since according to TWI) you couldn't join it..lolol what a joke..I did run twig for many moons.went wow twice & have been unlearning alot of their BS for the past 30 years..& thriving! I was always accused of "bucking the leadership" so I probably fit in here BUT I refuse to play the victim of their "way mindset"....I can & have risen above it IMHO..yeh I knew of a Sebastian as well..& yeh it looks pretty pfalish to me as well..lol
If you were a '"member", they would have responsibilities back to you. Since you "weren't a member", they felt free to treat you as DISPOSABLE.
WW..yeh I personally think the only "memebers" were Way Corps & their "teachers" & of course salaried personel..us volunteers were obviously expendable..as it looks like TWI lost 95 % who were disposable..
No, what he wrote in his blog is straight out of BULLINGER, almost verbatim. vpw isn't the only one who can read Bullinger and spit back what he wrote. At least one page shows a healthy respect for Bullinger, and their explanation about who they are sounds NOTHING like ex-twi. So, Bullinger is verbatim, but twi is not.
Hi Wordwolf! Thank you for this information. However, which book written by E.W. Bullinger has this information? I have some books written by Bullinger. In addition to the book, "The Bible Tells Me So". I have the books, "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible" and "Commentaries on the Book of Revelation". Perhaps a few other also.
Since it's a figure of speech, passive voice switched for the active voice (permission stated as action), you should find it in both "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible" and the Companion Bible. IIRC, I've read it in both, but FOSUinB should have it explained while TCB should just mention it like everything else.
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Raf
1. "Sadly, I cannot get this man to accept the notion that the Bible really is the word of God." Ok, let's start there. The Bible never calls itself the Word of God. That's part of the problem ri
Raf
I've read a lot of chapters in a lot of books. Some have more than 1,000 pages. Some have fewer. The fact that someone wrote a chapter in a book that documents a phenomenon he has identified is no gua
WordWolf
That's pretty much the same principle we see in effect when Gideon's discussed. He overthrew Baal's altar, and when people protested, he complained that BAAL should protest, since BAAL is the one who
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Raf
I've never understood TWI's passion for slandering Job. It's almost like they took glee in blaming him for his calamities.
Of course, finding fault is one way for a narcissist to hold himself up as something better than what he's criticizing, and what better way for a cult leader to prop himself up than to point out the flaws in someone the Bible calls "blameless and upright."
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WordWolf
It's of a piece, also, of the magical "Word Faith" system. They rewrote songs to include it. I also noticed recently that when they used parts of traditional songs, they always skipped any verse that suggested we might have trouble. Actually, I noticed it a long time ago with "I Know Who Holds Tomorrow." The missing verse says that tomorrow "may bring me poverty, but the One who feeds the sparrow is the one that cares for me..." Can't speak of any kind of trouble- or you're blamed when it arrives. Can't plan for trouble, either, that's "thinking negatively."
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Infoabsorption
I've completely abandoned the "Word Faith" theology. Took me a while but I finally got it out of my head several years ago. If Job was ultimately at fault for his problems then I guess we are supposed to believe that Peter & Paul were themselves at fault when they were executed by Nero during the mid-60s AD as well as all the Christian martyrs throughout history. It's along the lines of blaming the victim and a reason not to help people who are going through a tough time. "I'm not going to help you. You just need to believe dammit!"
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WordWolf
Jesus TOLD his disciples that they would have trouble. There was no "but if you believe, there will be no trouble" or "if you believe, the trouble will vanish" or anything like that.
As has been said before, by putting the blame on Job, twi aligned themselves with his miserable comforters.
Look- trusting God, believing God, is one thing. Believing in your own believing is something entirely different. Your will be done.
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Twinky
Heh heh heh, WW.
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Raf
The moral of Job:
S#!t happens. You gonna let that take your faith away? You really shouldn't. He's still God.
I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm just saying, that's the upshot. Elihu rules!
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WordWolf
One does not have to agree with something to understand it, and it's not impossible to fairly represent something with which you disagree. Naturally, I think I'm in the minority on that, but, as we see, I'm not the only one who says that. (Even when we disagree on other things. Then again, who agrees on EVERY thing?)
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jim jack
I was just discussing this topic with a life time & lifelong aethist whose stance was basically he could not lower himself to worshipping let alone loving a mass murder such as he thinks our Lord is/was. He sited several events (all in the old testament)..as my position on this is simply that God deals differently with the non-believer, now, than he did before Jesus & the sacrafice on the cross.. I know "God doesn't change"..but with a better covanant, could it be that he deals with people differently now in this administration?
I used the analogy of a mother bear & her cubs & no matter what it took (mass murder) that bear would fight to the death to protect what is her's..I believe it is the same with God...his chosen people. though stubborn & in unbelief at times...were mightily protected by God wiping out their enemies (via men typpically) although the parting of the Red sea was not man initiated..but God "doing his thing"
My point is..you don't see mass murder in the New Covanant..Jesus taught love and putting down the sword.quite a different & BETTER covanant..as God now deals with us as sons (not so much as servants) and with the "future believer" he makes quite an effort thru his sons & daughters on the planet to give them signs such as healings..to sway them out of the dark side..
Don't know if any of you ever watch "Thomas Fischer" on you tube & all the street healings going on..but its obvious that these different mockers who hate God & then get an instantaneous healing..once ministered to..that the healing alone might help them draw near to the Lord & go after God!!
The bible does predict that in the last days mighty signs would be on the earth..."signs miracles & wonders" I think is the way TWI coined it..it does open another can of worms..which might make a fun topic..can we have faith for another person..? VP said no..& most got talked out of ministering UNTIL that person would eventually choose to believe...I'm convince that having faith for another is the foundation for things like street healings that are all over youtube....you may say..its all fake, & yet I skyped Tom & he assurred me its the real deal..they video tape the healings & the how of approaching a "limping person" or someone in a wheelchair..a fun entertainment if nothing else as I hope a few of you do check it out!!
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Bill Rotach
God not only reigns down judgement on bad people He also disciplines His followers. I thought I heard Hagan reference the idiom of permission but I could be wrong. If this idiom of permission were true how would you ever know if the Bible writer actually meant that God caused the judgement? An example
Genesis 6: 17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Suppose God was trying to say that yes he really did it not satan how could he tell us that if there is an idiom of permission? Why would satan destroy all the wickedness that he was promoting?
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jim jack
If you believe the idiom..then Satan is God's murderer for hire....really the bad that does happen to some..they bring on themselves...oher attacks are for real & perhaps well thought out by the demonic out there..not hired by God but them enjoying destroying people just like their "father of lies"..I daily (usually right when I jump out of bed) rebuke & cast out anything that is demonic that perhaps "got on me in the night' when my mind is open....if "they" aren't ordered to leave but persist..then I think they'll hang around & torment until we do rise up & take authority over them..if you don't believe you have authority over ALL demonic..then most likely you'll never rebuke it...if & when you do..I think you'll see some super results in areas that you finally quit "putting up with"...
BTW welcom Bill..this is a fun playground & much to re-think ..
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WordWolf
"Why would satan destroy all the wickedness that he was promoting?"
I've found that some people do things even if we think they're senseless. "Since I can't come up with a reason for vpw to drug, rape and molest women, then he must not have." WHY something is done is not relevant to IF it is done. And we don't need to know someone's motive to WHY they do something to know THAT they did something. Healthy people don't think like psychopaths.
So, a reason for satan to destroy stuff? Well, there's reasons satan may WANT to. We know he was petty and vindictive, and wanted control over God's creation. So, one reason already given was to wipe out the line of the promised seed by wiping out EVERYONE. If you want to take out a target and don't care about collateral damage, you can obliterate the building they're in, and know they got killed in the process. That's one thing a psychopath might consider or do. Also, out of pettiness, he just might want to flaunt his control by showing that he controlled things to the point he could destroy them if he wanted- proving he could by doing it. According to some stories, the leader of the "assassins" did just such a thing once. When receiving a VIP, the VIP/diplomat asked- for his monarch- why they should go along with the assassins. Their leader turned to a follower next to him, and told him to kill himself. Immediately, he did so, and fell dead at their feet. Then the leader signaled to a lookout to jump from his vantage point and kill himself in a fall. Immediately, he did so. The leader then told about how many thousands of followers he claimed he had, all just as loyal. He made his point with the diplomat, who recommended the assassins be given a lot of leeway. A third, possible reason would be out of spite. Someone I want to anger likes something? I'll break it to make them unhappy. So, destroy the people and/or the Earth because it would make God unhappy. There's other POSSIBLE reasons. But, again, we don't need to KNOW someone's motive to know they did it. It helps us understand if we do, it helps with a trial of the perpetrator, but it's not required to know WHY the truth is the truth. So, "why" is not the most important question here.
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Mark Sanguinetti
"Why would satan destroy all the wickedness that he was promoting?"
In also answering Wordwolf's question, here is a biblical verse to at least consider.
A definition of the above Greek word tartaroo, in the KJV was translated as hell is the following.
In the future when the demons get blinded while being reserved for judgement. As long as they have the mindset of evil mixed with deception, since they will be blinded and not being able to see who they will be evil to. Then the demons could do this to each other.
An example of this is seen with Jesus Christ himself blinding someone named Saul who later became the Apostle Paul. This is read in Acts chapter 9. Saul was part of the persecution of the followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ spoke to him as read in Acts 9:4-6. Before this a light flashed around him.and he fell to the ground. Then Jesus spoke to him about Saul persecuting Him through the persecution of his followers. Then Saul was blinded. A few days later a follower of Jesus Christ came to him as directed by Jesus Christ and healed him of his temporary blindness. Saul then believed in Jesus Christ, received the gift of holy spirit and was renamed Paul. Paul later became a very knowledgeable Apostle Paul.
Another example of this is seen in Acts chapter 13. Followers of Jesus Christ including Saul who was also named Paul were spreading a knowledge of Jesus Christ. They met a person described as a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet. A sorcerer is a pretender of magic powers. This deceiving person tried to turn people away from faith in Jesus Christ. Paul noticed this and opposed this person who had a satanical greedy wanting religious power and authority mindset. This greedy not service oriented person was then blinded for a season as recorded in Acts 13:11. As a result they had more followers of Jesus Christ as a result of more teachings about Jesus Christ with less deception coming from the greedy power hungry religious political elite at least for a period of time.
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Mark Sanguinetti
"Why would satan destroy all the wickedness that he was promoting?"
In also answering Wordwolf's question, which was perhaps originated on this forum by Bill Rotach, below is a biblical verse to at least consider. Other verses are referred to for references in my comments that follow.
The below has improvement after editing the original written content seen above.
With darkness there are no burning flames of fire used for torture. Instead the chains of darkness symbolize a restriction on the sinful angels ability to see in order to deceive. Also the darkness the demons will experience in the future can also result in the demons being blinded so that they torture each other. This to me looks like their punishment. As an example this method of victory was used by God in an Israel war with the Midianites as seen in the book of Judges, chapter 7. Soldiers from Israel without the use of needed weapons defeated 15,000 Midianite soldiers. In Judges 7:22, 3000 Israelites simply blew trumpets and then the Lord God caused the Midianite soldiers to turn on each other with their weapons. Then only 300 soldiers were needed to finalize the defeat of the Midianites.
Using blindness in a more positive way is seen with Jesus Christ himself blinding someone named Saul who later became the Apostle Paul. This is read in Acts chapter 9. Saul was part of the persecution of the followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ spoke to him as read in Acts 9:4-6. Before this a light flashed around him and he fell to the ground. Then Jesus spoke to him about Saul persecuting Him through the persecution of his followers. Then Saul was blinded. A few days later a follower of Jesus Christ came to him as directed by Jesus Christ and healed him of his temporary blindness. Saul then believed in Jesus Christ, received the gift of holy spirit and later came to be also called Paul. Paul later became a very knowledgeable Apostle Paul.
Another example of this is seen in Acts chapter 13. Followers of Jesus Christ including Saul who as a Roman citizen was also named Paul were spreading the knowledge of Jesus Christ. They met a person described as a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet. A sorcerer is a pretender of magic powers. This deceiving person tried to turn people away from faith in Jesus Christ. Paul noticed this and opposed this person who had a satanical greedy wanting religious power and authority mindset. This greedy not service oriented person was then blinded for a season as recorded in Acts 13:11. As a result they had more followers of Jesus Christ as a result of more teachings about Jesus Christ with less deception coming from the greedy power hungry religious political elite at least for a period of time.
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jim jack
Thanks Mark..this is very insightful!!
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Mark Sanguinetti
Here is a link to an article that also looks insightful. Or at least should be considered for its content. The person makes a reference to E.W Bullinger, the English biblical article writer that wrote a book on biblical figures of speech. And yes, we today also use what could be considered figures of speech in our wording and speaking. As an example, "it is raining cats and dogs", is not literal, but simply means it is raining hard.
https://overcomersharvest.wordpress.com/tag/idiom-of-permission-in-the-bible/
An article written by James K Sebastian. Someone who I do not know.
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jim jack
again thanx Mark..as there are true answers to everything I believe..worldly logic seems to prevail instead of Godly wisdom at times..thank you
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JayDee
What Mr. Sebastian wrote in his blog is straight out of pfal. Almost verbatim.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Interesting therefore James must have been a member of the Way Ministry like most of us here. I knew someone from the Way Ministry also with last name Sebastian. First name of Phil. Sadly though, he passed away, died or is sleeping (figurative language as seen in 1 Thes. 4). Thank you for your feedback or information JayDee and jim jack.
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jim jack
Thankfully I was not a memeber (since according to TWI) you couldn't join it..lolol what a joke..I did run twig for many moons.went wow twice & have been unlearning alot of their BS for the past 30 years..& thriving! I was always accused of "bucking the leadership" so I probably fit in here BUT I refuse to play the victim of their "way mindset"....I can & have risen above it IMHO..yeh I knew of a Sebastian as well..& yeh it looks pretty pfalish to me as well..lol
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WordWolf
*sighs*
No, what he wrote in his blog is straight out of BULLINGER, almost verbatim. vpw isn't the only one who can read Bullinger and spit back what he wrote. At least one page shows a healthy respect for Bullinger, and their explanation about who they are sounds NOTHING like ex-twi. So, Bullinger is verbatim, but twi is not.
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WordWolf
If you were a '"member", they would have responsibilities back to you. Since you "weren't a member", they felt free to treat you as DISPOSABLE.
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jim jack
WW..yeh I personally think the only "memebers" were Way Corps & their "teachers" & of course salaried personel..us volunteers were obviously expendable..as it looks like TWI lost 95 % who were disposable..
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Mark Sanguinetti
Hi Wordwolf! Thank you for this information. However, which book written by E.W. Bullinger has this information? I have some books written by Bullinger. In addition to the book, "The Bible Tells Me So". I have the books, "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible" and "Commentaries on the Book of Revelation". Perhaps a few other also.
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WordWolf
Since it's a figure of speech, passive voice switched for the active voice (permission stated as action), you should find it in both "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible" and the Companion Bible. IIRC, I've read it in both, but FOSUinB should have it explained while TCB should just mention it like everything else.
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