I joke with my wife that my goal with the way international is to be permanently marked and avoided. I am pretty sure that has happened since I am sure they know who I am.
Yeah.....I have posted enough incidents and information that if the WayGB haven't figured out who I am
Congrats!! (just kidding) I joke with my wife that my goal with the way international is to be permanently marked and avoided. I am pretty sure that has happened since I am sure they know who I am.
Sorry, you had to deal with that but it does seem that people who received the rants were usually right to begin with, or victims of the MOG's whim.
If I revealed what he ranted about, people would scratch their heads. It was ridiculous. But sadly it changed the life of somebody else forever, and not in a good way. At the time, I wasn't strong enough to stop it.
BTW- I was never M & A. But the lunch time rant tape about me that was circulated to the other root locales and feild leadership had a profoundly negative effect on my life for a long time.
When someone we were sponsoring in the corpsey was dropped, we would get a letter about their spiritual weaknesses. Talk about slander.
They sent out slanderous tapes and letters about people.
They could dish it out but they couldn't take it. If they had to endure one tenth of what they put other people through they'd all be curled up in a permanent fetal position.
If twi staffers and corps were given a voice, given an opportunity to REALLY VOICE their opinions/concerns/questions.....
....in a full-course, full-throated, lengthy-dialogue of grievances that spanned a considerable amount of weeks(?)
....and policy changes were inacted, teachings were altered, hearts repented with true godly sorrow with Christ as lord
....and top-hardened leadership was ousted and replaced (I know, I know.....how could they possibly find true ministers?)
Then, and only then......could twi begin to find its way back to the loving embrace of a heavenly Father.
What I've started to realize is that TWI as an organization was NEVER set up to do anything close to this. I remember reading the book The Perfect Storm. In there is a description of the Navy as a system "set up by geniuses to be run by idiots". It described how the Navy was designed to run by following orders and not thinking. When and where you found yourself thinking you became at odds with the system. Those who persisted thinking for themselves would find themselves disciplined and cast out. Now yes, this is just one aspect of the Navy and just one author's opinion.
But TWI is exactly like that in that really the whole organization is designed to run around one man (or woman). Everything adapts within the organization to run that way, and the systems in place are designed to make things flow that way. Leaders (staff and field) adapt themselves to conformity and give over their freedom of will and moral conscience. Countless times I've witnessed absolute amoral behavior (at times even illegal) that is just not even seen by other leaders. They turn a blind eye to it. They say one thing with their mouth and another with their actions.
What I've started to realize is that TWI as an organization was NEVER set up to do anything close to this.
Yeah......that realization is one many of us share.
With each passing year, I've uncovered more and more twi manipulation, deception and exploitation. Maybe that comes with age. Maybe that comes with more examples of religious corruption. And maybe, it comes with some deeper levels of searching the scriptures..... rather than the "youth rally cries" of my numbnutts years. Guess I just got tired of being played (a fool).
I believe it starts with a decision to sift the wheat from the chaff. From a farming background, it couldn't be more descriptive for me than the Luke 3:17 reference. The wheat will be garnered and profit the reaper; the chaff is scattered to the winds.
Is there a thread on this topic? It's so true, and it's vital to understand the scope of the manipulation that was used. If one doesn't understand the scope of the manipulation used, one can't identify it or break completely free from it. It will always be there in your mind, working its work.
One of my last fellowship meetings was appalling in this aspect, the songs they chose to sing were almost all children's songs even though the attendees were adult. It would come as news, I suppose, to that fellowship coordinator that one can be an adult, act like an adult, sing like an adult, and still be a child of God. Maybe even a better one!
Even more annoying than the singing of childish songs was the baby talk at that fellowship, how Daddy will take pweshus care of his snuggum widdle children wif power and give us pweshus hugs and bwess us weal big. ooooooohh, wub u!!
There was an exchange and nobody wanted to add to that.
"TWI's pervasive culture of secrecy, its claimed monopoly on truth, its reliance upon personalities (VPW first, later LCM and the list of Way celebrities), its alienation from society (the "world"), its hierarchy of initiations (through classes and programs), and many other behaviors follow the pattern. Why do you think the in-res Corps sang childrens' songs at every meal? Why were so many in-res Corps meetings held sitting on a floor, with little room to move? These are strategies for conditioning human behavior. They work, too."
"To me, to jump on the "cult experts'" train is to jump from one group's set of pat answers (twi's) to another (the so called "experts"), and it isn't much of a leap. That's why I call it the "anti-cult cult."
These "experts" seem to work from the premise that every wrong thing done by every non-mainstream religious group is based on some evil, well-thought-out plan. Good grief, it sounds like there's a cult handbook that everyone who starts a controlling religious group buys from Amazon.com and then follows:
I can see it now. "Okay, I'd like to start a cult. I want people to follow and obey me and give me all their money. What ever shall I do? Oh I know, I'll check the cult-leader's handbook!" (sound of pages turning)
Step 1. Sit them on the floor.
Step 2. Get them to sing some children's songs (which, by the way, we did not sing at every meal in residence, and we were in the Family Corps, with kids present who LIKED singing children's songs. This kind of exaggeration hinders "innies" from giving credence to the ACTUAL crap that went on in twi, IMO.)
Step 3. Call them "kids" (never mind that you're old enough to be a grandfather to many of them and old enough to be a father to most).
Step 4. "Love-bomb" them.
Step 5. Have a personality. No cult will go far without someone with personality at the helm.
Etc., etc."
================================
So, 2 people who said "yes", and 1 person who said "no", and that's as far as it ever got, AFAIK.
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skyrider
Yeah.....I have posted enough incidents and information that if the WayGB haven't figured out who I am
then they truly are DUMBER THAN DIRT.
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100% Free
If I revealed what he ranted about, people would scratch their heads. It was ridiculous. But sadly it changed the life of somebody else forever, and not in a good way. At the time, I wasn't strong enough to stop it.
BTW- I was never M & A. But the lunch time rant tape about me that was circulated to the other root locales and feild leadership had a profoundly negative effect on my life for a long time.
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OldSkool
They do a lot of that. It's taken me several years to get my bearings with the first two no doubt the worst.
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skyrider
Twi's Mark & Avoid policies have several tactics:
1) A "call to arms" for twi-followers to NOT contact or associate with black-listed individual(s).
2) A twisted version of the scriptures [Rom. 16:17] as some endeavored to thwart a Christ-centered message.
3) The M&A individual has no access to contest twi's charge....."two or three witnesses" must bring evidence [Matt 16:18]
4) Twi can easily SUPPRESS anyone with this jaded policy.....even if mog demands sex favors and girl says "NO."
5) This M&A tactic only ADDS to the list of manipulative ploys that twi uses to advance and bully.
6) Publically, twi claims that they do NOT use it anymore......that's code for "not in writing."
7) Kinder and Gentler ministry under Rosalie's authority is a misnomer.....just more deceptive.
After meeting with Region Coordinators for 3 hours and not relenting our position....
....my wife and I were put on twi's mark/avoid list
....the trustees marshalled a smear campaign and called leadership in 3 other states
....twi ordered 2 Region guys to come to our city and hold meetings to black-ball us
....Region guys spent whole day trying to find any "dirty laundry" to use rally their position
....Nothing surfaced and believers were totally STUNNED that we were "off the word"
....Martindale gave the marching orders to cover HIS sexcapades at the 1998 AC
....In the years to follow, dozens have called us and exited twi
The mark/avoid label is NOT necessarily a blight of weakness or flaw.
Quite the opposite......the mark/avoid label might be AN ENDORSEMENT OF STRENGTH AND CHARACTER. :)
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OldSkool
I've marked and avoided the way international.
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skyrider
So has (drum roll).............. GOD
:P
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100% Free
LOL. Did you send them an official letter?
When someone we were sponsoring in the corpsey was dropped, we would get a letter about their spiritual weaknesses. Talk about slander.
They sent out slanderous tapes and letters about people.
They could dish it out but they couldn't take it. If they had to endure one tenth of what they put other people through they'd all be curled up in a permanent fetal position.
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OldSkool
Nah, they aren't worth the postage.
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skyrider
The ONLY way twi can remain relevant and hold power.....is to hold the microphone and NOT LET IT GO.
If twi staffers and corps were given a voice, given an opportunity to REALLY VOICE their opinions/concerns/questions.....
....in a full-course, full-throated, lengthy-dialogue of grievances that spanned a considerable amount of weeks(?)
....and policy changes were inacted, teachings were altered, hearts repented with true godly sorrow with Christ as lord
....and top-hardened leadership was ousted and replaced (I know, I know.....how could they possibly find true ministers?)
Then, and only then......could twi begin to find its way back to the loving embrace of a heavenly Father.
And, what are the odds on that?
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OldSkool
Hell will freeze over first.
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chockfull
What I've started to realize is that TWI as an organization was NEVER set up to do anything close to this. I remember reading the book The Perfect Storm. In there is a description of the Navy as a system "set up by geniuses to be run by idiots". It described how the Navy was designed to run by following orders and not thinking. When and where you found yourself thinking you became at odds with the system. Those who persisted thinking for themselves would find themselves disciplined and cast out. Now yes, this is just one aspect of the Navy and just one author's opinion.
But TWI is exactly like that in that really the whole organization is designed to run around one man (or woman). Everything adapts within the organization to run that way, and the systems in place are designed to make things flow that way. Leaders (staff and field) adapt themselves to conformity and give over their freedom of will and moral conscience. Countless times I've witnessed absolute amoral behavior (at times even illegal) that is just not even seen by other leaders. They turn a blind eye to it. They say one thing with their mouth and another with their actions.
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skyrider
Yeah......that realization is one many of us share.
With each passing year, I've uncovered more and more twi manipulation, deception and exploitation. Maybe that comes with age. Maybe that comes with more examples of religious corruption. And maybe, it comes with some deeper levels of searching the scriptures..... rather than the "youth rally cries" of my numbnutts years. Guess I just got tired of being played (a fool).
I believe it starts with a decision to sift the wheat from the chaff. From a farming background, it couldn't be more descriptive for me than the Luke 3:17 reference. The wheat will be garnered and profit the reaper; the chaff is scattered to the winds.
If one heard some scriptures that help = wheat
When one sees the twi corruption at hq = chaff
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WordWolf
There was an exchange and nobody wanted to add to that.
www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4698-the-l-e-a-d-accident-what-happened/page__st__240__p__117670#entry117670
"TWI's pervasive culture of secrecy, its claimed monopoly on truth, its reliance upon personalities (VPW first, later LCM and the list of Way celebrities), its alienation from society (the "world"), its hierarchy of initiations (through classes and programs), and many other behaviors follow the pattern. Why do you think the in-res Corps sang childrens' songs at every meal? Why were so many in-res Corps meetings held sitting on a floor, with little room to move? These are strategies for conditioning human behavior. They work, too."
www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4698-the-l-e-a-d-accident-what-happened/page__st__240__p__117678#entry117678
" quote:Originally posted by vickles:
Wow Satori, that is the best explanation of cult I've seen yet.
Sitting on the floor all the time was a strategy of mind control? "
"I'll agree that's a great explanation.
====
I'll even try to answer your question.
(Mind you, I could be completely off-base since I can't read Satori's mind.)
children's songs, sitting on the floor.....
I've been given to understand that there are adults out there in the USA that
like to pretend they're little children in private.
(I'm thinking they don't remember childhood very well.)
Now, leaving aside discussions of what motivates someone to do this,
I think we can agree,
if a grown adult male wants to dress up as Little Lord Fauntelroy or
Buster Brown in his living room, and ride a wooden stick "hobby-horse" around
and pretend he's a little kid, well, whatevah.
Just make sure you pull the shades/blinds/curtains closed first.
On the other hand, Vickles,
let's say some guy (husband, fiancee, steady boyfriend) says to you that
he wants YOU to dress up like Punky Brewster or Pippi Longstocking or whatever
and ride a hobby-horse around the living room.
You would probably say "HAHAHAHAHAHA! No, wait-you were SERIOUS??"
You'd back up a few feet, and say something was wrong.
Why does this guy want to infantilize you? What sick purpose does he have
to make you like a child?
Well, guess what?
If you were in the corpse, you sat thru something like this!
Not to the same degree,
and not for the same reasons, I hope,
but you were infantilized.
Your erstwhile "Father in da werd" kept calling you "kids",
had you sing children's songs,
and had you sit around while being taught,
all to evoke childhood?
Why?
This evokes the responses of childhood-
the reactions that the "adult" knows more than you, and you have to obey,
the idea that you know nothing and have to be told what to do,
that you have to "be a good boy/girl" and obey.
Subtle, yes. Insidious, yes. Intentional? Well, could it possibly have
been accidental? Think carefully before answering.
Could they possibly have been deliberately training people not to be
good LEADERS, but good FOLLOWERS instead? "
www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4698-the-l-e-a-d-accident-what-happened/page__st__260__p__117719#entry117719
"To me, to jump on the "cult experts'" train is to jump from one group's set of pat answers (twi's) to another (the so called "experts"), and it isn't much of a leap. That's why I call it the "anti-cult cult."
These "experts" seem to work from the premise that every wrong thing done by every non-mainstream religious group is based on some evil, well-thought-out plan. Good grief, it sounds like there's a cult handbook that everyone who starts a controlling religious group buys from Amazon.com and then follows:
I can see it now. "Okay, I'd like to start a cult. I want people to follow and obey me and give me all their money. What ever shall I do? Oh I know, I'll check the cult-leader's handbook!" (sound of pages turning)
Step 1. Sit them on the floor.
Step 2. Get them to sing some children's songs (which, by the way, we did not sing at every meal in residence, and we were in the Family Corps, with kids present who LIKED singing children's songs. This kind of exaggeration hinders "innies" from giving credence to the ACTUAL crap that went on in twi, IMO.)
Step 3. Call them "kids" (never mind that you're old enough to be a grandfather to many of them and old enough to be a father to most).
Step 4. "Love-bomb" them.
Step 5. Have a personality. No cult will go far without someone with personality at the helm.
Etc., etc."
================================
So, 2 people who said "yes", and 1 person who said "no", and that's as far as it ever got, AFAIK.
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penworks
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OldSkool
This explains in part why their numbers are dwindling so bad. Rosalie has the personality of a rock.
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skyrider
In journalism, it's often said...."Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel."
In twi-cultdom, same deal........."Never pick a fight with someone who holds the microphone as a sword over you."
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