Modern day HQ is real proud of the bureaucracy. They fancy themselves a legitimate 501c3 non profit that is the best run in the world. There are folks who have been there for years and years who have completely lost touch with what real life is like in modern day society. Funny thing is many of these people were around first hand for Wierwille's abuses as well as Craig. They are desensitized to think it's ok to be abused because they stand for God and he will work it all out in the long run. I mean, afterall, even David sinned. And let's not forget Samuel and the sons of Eli.
All of the multi layered departments and sections at HQ are an exercise in futility. Most of them serve to belabor rather simple tasks with 5 layers of approvals. And at each level of responsibility comes a new security clearance, so to speak. The closer you get to the board of Dummies, Rosalie, Donna, etc. The more their hypocrisy becomes obvious. Still the same ole thing, ready to strain a gnat and swallow a camel just like Wierwille. They have followed their man of God and use his system to carry out the same type of abuses, except with a kinder, gentler, sugary sweet little ole blue hair running things with her significant other at her side.
Modern day HQ is real proud of the bureaucracy. They fancy themselves a legitimate 501c3 non profit that is the best run in the world. There are folks who have been there for years and years who have completely lost touch with what real life is like in modern day society.
Yeah....complicit in the deception to keep their cozy, pittance jobs.
All the while, twi continues to rewrite their history......like after the Dunc@ns, then GJess is the designated
first corps director. When corps/leaders exit....the whitewashing scrubbing begins. Over and over again.
I mean, afterall, even David sinned. And let's not forget Samuel and the sons of Eli.
It's just flat out odd to mehow a story like David's killing another man to get his wife
and is clearly a
Cautionary tale to the reader
Is interpreted by Wayfers as
Indicative of God's grace and used as a way to measure how far out we can go and still be loved by God because we're God's wuvable wee willy winky bears with power.
And thus leaving out the reality part of it which was that people got killed, more people died including David's next son and his whole nation suffered as a result..
Like the Bibl' says right rhere in the verse right what it's written - "But the thing that David had done displeased the Lord".
That doesn't bother Wayfers I guess. Oh as a way to have a big dramatic crescendo in a teaching sure......."But the thing....that David......had DONE....displeased the Lo-ahrd, my peepul".
But they don't give a crap about displeasing God because - I dunno, I guess they finally accepted what they've seen over the years,that they will never get any ministerial or pastoral leadership from their ranks worth a dime or anyone that will stay with them for any length of time and so they've lowered their standards to allow for complete failure on all levels and....
It's okay! God still wuvs us!! We're His wuvable huggable winky Way Bears With Power!
I find that the ways concept of lowering Christ but also God strategically important to VPW.... Just follow me here a second.
Reading the PFLA binders and listening to who God is to TWI. It seems they have brought God down to mans level...
With VPW successfully bringing God down to a level where He can be totally conceivable as he laid out with his misquote of Isaiah describing God as not being able to be comprehended.
It now gave VPW the position to step in Gods place or at least to usurp the position of Jesus.
I mean, afterall, even David sinned. And let's not forget Samuel and the sons of Eli.
It's just flat out odd to mehow a story like David's killing another man to get his wife
and is clearly a
Cautionary tale to the reader
Is interpreted by Wayfers as
Indicative of God's grace and used as a way to measure how far out we can go and still be loved by God because we're God's wuvable wee willy winky bears with power.
And thus leaving out the reality part of it which was that people got killed, more people died including David's next son and his whole nation suffered as a result..
Like the Bibl' says right rhere in the verse right what it's written - "But the thing that David had done displeased the Lord".
That doesn't bother Wayfers I guess....
socks.....I hear what you are saying, but I gotta tell you that this stuff is fairly common in the twisted world
of indoctrination. I have long held the belief that THE LONGER ONE STAYS...THE MORE TWISTED IT BECOMES.
Manipulation, coersion, indoctrination and exploitation.........the subculture of cults.
Yes, the scriptures CLEARLY say that David sinned.....blah, blah, blah......but then, wierwille taught in pfal how
"every woman in the kingdom belongs to the king!" Why didn't I ask for more clarification? Why didn't I throw my
hands up and say, "I don't believe it"..??
For the past 15 years, I've been aggressively DISMANTLING twi's twisting of scripture........15 years!!!
And, I still believe there is more to go. Now, I certainly don't presume to be no psychologist or anything, but I
see how this indoctrination messes people up a lifetime.
And, I'm lucky.......some corps girls have to deal with past rapes and abortions.
May the Lord break the teeth of these devouring predators!
"every woman in the kingdom belongs to the king!" Why didn't I ask for more clarification? Why didn't I throw my
hands up and say, "I don't believe it"..??
I was very surprised to hear years later that some of you took that to have any significance beyond that record or that VPW ever used it in other presentations to infer that someone today had the same arrangements, and that any woman would have had that offered to her as the premise for a sexual affair.
As a matter of historical fact if it's wrong, it's applicable to that record and the way he taught it. It would certainly be wrong today, too. But in PFAL, if you listen to what he teaches in that area of the session there's no reference to today or people today or it having any relationship to people today and in fact the last time I heard it on tape...I'd be hard pressed to take it any other way than I did the first time I heard it on tape, as a historical point that VPW's making in relation to David.
Which if wrong, makes that teaching on that thing wrong. Does it relate to anyone today and can it be used by someone like VPW to support some kind of harem-at-large? Of course not - no. Well, he could, anyone could but obviously it would be wrong.
It would never apply to anyone today and it also has to reconcile with many other areas of the O.T and the Mosaic Law. sooooo....
I understand that there are people here who say they had it taught to them by Way clergy and leaders, and that it meant something today................. but, not me and quite a few others I know.
The morals and ethics of that teaching as it would apply to David were and are more relevant to that time, IMO doesn't have anything to do with us today. Never did.
My point is I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad for standing up and doing whatever - frankly, I don't think you needed to. I don't think that's what he meant - and if he did and he came back later to me and said, Well, socks - see that David and that thing, that means that now, see - it's okay to.....................
I'd have told him he was nuts.
No, actually I'd have disconnected my brain and drooled "Ohhhh, right, yeth thir Mithter Wervuhl, thath rightth"
Like the Bibl' says right rhere in the verse right what it's written - "But the thing that David had done displeased the Lord".
That doesn't bother Wayfers I guess. Oh as a way to have a big dramatic crescendo in a teaching sure......."But the thing....that David......had DONE....displeased the Lo-ahrd, my peepul".
But they don't give a crap about displeasing God because - I dunno, I guess they finally accepted what they've seen over the years,that they will never get any ministerial or pastoral leadership from their ranks worth a dime or anyone that will stay with them for any length of time and so they've lowered their standards to allow for complete failure on all levels and....
It's okay! God still wuvs us!! We're His wuvable huggable winky Way Bears With Power!
That doesn't really exemplify sincere Christian love now does it? Abhor evil and cling to good. It is not even close.
Christians have a radical relationship with good and with evil, it is not a tepid one....it is extreme. The irony is sad though..... just consider all the people they tossed out like the days garbage for the slightest infraction. . . . . yet, they are willing to overlook evil for their own gain.
God isn't fooled.....nor is He blind, deaf or dumb.
God isn't fooled.....nor is He blind, deaf or dumb.
You know, clinging to this simple truth has been pivotal in my recovery from the negative effects of this bunch of Pharisees.
God is a just God. Do you think when Jesus Christ comes back He is going to say "well done" to leaders who manipulate others for their own gain and their own personal advancement? Do you think He is going to overlook the lust for power and position in their hearts that motivates them? Do you think He will tolerate those that turn a blind eye to the evil functioning in their peers and overseers and do nothing or go along with it to preserve themselves? Do you think the voices of those they have slandered and shunned will not cry out for help? Will He not hear them?
No, He will stand for those that speak out and are persecuted.
You know, clinging to this simple truth has been pivotal in my recovery from the negative effects of this bunch of Pharisees.
God is a just God. Do you think when Jesus Christ comes back He is going to say "well done" to leaders who manipulate others for their own gain and their own personal advancement? Do you think He is going to overlook the lust for power and position in their hearts that motivates them? Do you think He will tolerate those that turn a blind eye to the evil functioning in their peers and overseers and do nothing or go along with it to preserve themselves? Do you think the voices of those they have slandered and shunned will not cry out for help? Will He not hear them?
No, He will stand for those that speak out and are persecuted.
Absolutely !!
When I exited twi....the one verse that I held with conviction was Luke 4:18.
Twi did NOT represent the anointed power of Jesus Christ and with each passing decade, twi was becoming the OPPRESSOR
and CAPTOR and ABUSER. I was totally convinced in my heart that leaving twi was deliverance!!
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;
he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind,
socks.....I hear what you are saying, but I gotta tell you that this stuff is fairly common in the twisted world
of indoctrination.
There's no but in that to me. It is weird, odd, strange and bizzarre.
I like to keep my reality hat on so I don't end up doing exactly what you're stating -
I want to remember that a great deal of what has gone on in the Way isn't unique to the Way or VPW or you or I or this generation, the 60's or the 80's or any one time or era.
I want to remain clearly aware of the broader perspective into which all of this falls.
Indoctrination - that's the way the world works and by that I'm not taking it down to the "world" of the Day-vil, the adversary everyone's so afraid of.
We're all being subjected to indoctrination and influence by other wills and intents.
geisha, although my sarcasm does know some boundaries, I wanted to clarfiy that -
No, absolutely not and under no circumstances would I have assumed the no famous "david" record to mean it's okay to get rug burns with anyone I want and if VPW would have suggested that to me I'd have told him he was, if not nuts, fairly nutty.
socks.....I hear what you are saying, but I gotta tell you that this stuff is fairly common in the twisted world
of indoctrination.
There's no but in that to me. It is weird, odd, strange and bizzarre.
I like to keep my reality hat on so I don't end up doing exactly what you're stating -
I want to remember that a great deal of what has gone on in the Way isn't unique to the Way or VPW or you or I or this generation, the 60's or the 80's or any one time or era.
Hence, like I said........"the twisted world of indoctrination"
geisha, although my sarcasm does know some boundaries, I wanted to clarfiy that -
No, absolutely not and under no circumstances would I have assumed the no famous "david" record to mean it's okay to get rug burns with anyone I want and if VPW would have suggested that to me I'd have told him he was, if not nuts, fairly nutty.
I would never think that you condone that behavior. . . and I am from Massachusetts, we are raised on sarcasm......my point was TWI and their convenient moral compass. Evil is never okay depending on who the perpetrator is and the way TWI whitewashes things for gain is just another indicator of whom they serve.
As Christians, we have a radical relationship with evil and good....hating one and clinging to the other. It is stark and it is obvious....or at least it should be.
Like you I see the issues as very basic and fundamental.
People made their choices but indoctrinated sky? I don't see it.
Basic issue in my estimation - VPW said he had God's Word and he chose to sell it for a price.
If God is what the Bible says He is, we can't do that and expect to have a good life. I could have all the good in Heaven but when I do that, turn the Father's House into a Flea Market, I'm screwed. People do it, they don't have good lives. They want something other than what God wants. God is a "jealous" kinda guy, He doesn't want competition.
People do that, they may get what they want but they die tired and diseased wondering where they went wrong. It's a lesson worth learning from.
I'm not a saint, I'm just not stupid. I won't compete with God for dollars. I can say from experience it absolutely does not work and will not produce a result that looks like love, humility, peace, grace and mercy. It produces what the Way Nash of New Knoxville is.
You know, clinging to this simple truth has been pivotal in my recovery from the negative effects of this bunch of Pharisees.
God is a just God. Do you think when Jesus Christ comes back He is going to say "well done" to leaders who manipulate others for their own gain and their own personal advancement? Do you think He is going to overlook the lust for power and position in their hearts that motivates them? Do you think He will tolerate those that turn a blind eye to the evil functioning in their peers and overseers and do nothing or go along with it to preserve themselves? Do you think the voices of those they have slandered and shunned will not cry out for help? Will He not hear them?
No, He will stand for those that speak out and are persecuted.
Jesus stood up for Stephen. Literally. That always moves me.
I believe God cares greatly about what has happened to people hurt by TWI, and that it is more than either of us can articulate. And I don't think they all await judgement......they are neck deep in heresy and I don't see Him moving to snatch them out. That is judgement too and it is not necessarily delayed judgement.
We can be thankful and call on the Lord to deliver us. At least we know to put our hands out for continued deliverance. :)
Yes, I do think the lord hears those who cry out to Him, but it is difficult when we still believe everything and anything replaces Him.
You know, clinging to this simple truth has been pivotal in my recovery from the negative effects of this bunch of Pharisees.
God is a just God. Do you think when Jesus Christ comes back He is going to say "well done" to leaders who manipulate others for their own gain and their own personal advancement? Do you think He is going to overlook the lust for power and position in their hearts that motivates them? Do you think He will tolerate those that turn a blind eye to the evil functioning in their peers and overseers and do nothing or go along with it to preserve themselves? Do you think the voices of those they have slandered and shunned will not cry out for help? Will He not hear them?
No, He will stand for those that speak out and are persecuted.
Well said! God is a just God and there will be consequences.
People made their choices but indoctrinated sky? I don't see it.
Indoctrination - that's the way the world works and by that I'm not taking it down to the "world" of the Day-vil, the adversary everyone's so afraid of.
socks....want to elaborate on the above two statements?
Jesus stood up for Stephen. Literally. That always moves me.
I believe God cares greatly about what has happened to people hurt by TWI, and that it is more than either of us can articulate. And I don't think they all await judgement......they are neck deep in heresy and I don't see Him moving to snatch them out. That is judgement too and it is not necessarily delayed judgement.
We can be thankful and call on the Lord to deliver us. At least we know to put our hands out for continued deliverance. :)
Yes, I do think the lord hears those who cry out to Him, but it is difficult when we still believe everything and anything replaces Him.
geisha.....thanks.
Those scriptures always move me, as well. A mighty one of valor standing for the True God and His people seems to be one of the epic stories of all mankind. One man, one faith, one mission....it sells at the box office, too. In its least common denominator, I take comfort in knowing that the simplicity is in Christ. A spiritual haven from the storms.
And yet, life gives us countless reminders that evil men work their deeds both in the shadows and bureaucracies of life......business, religion, government, etc. No longer are we living in a world where "a man's handshake is his bond." Perhaps, it never was....but, I see that society is cycling into turbulent times and waxing worse and worse. Seducers and deceivers are on the move, gaining more momentum. To not recognize this is, in my opinion....is an attempt to suppress the truths of scripture.
In less than 10 years, twi became so layered in bureaucracy and corrupt that it was hardly recognizable. Those who remember it as "a farm" and gathered around lunchtime in the brc basement AND those who heard the OSC lunchtime rantings around 1994 and beyond.....are at polar extremes. Is it any wonder why one would question, "How did twi become so embedded with corruption and hypocrisy if gift ministries were truly serving and admonishing in their midst? Where are those men who are supposed to shield us from those who craft evil to deceive?" Then add....the layers of stolen works, plagairism, lies, myths, whitewashing, predation and twi bureaucracy and one has to RETRACE THEIR STEPS TO THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST AND WHY ONE STARTED THE JOURNEY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Those who remember it as "a farm" and gathered around lunchtime in the brc basement AND those who heard the OSC lunchtime rantings around 1994 and beyond.....are at polar extremes. Is it any wonder why one would question, "How did twi become so embedded with corruption and hypocrisy if gift ministries were truly serving and admonishing in their midst? Where are those men who are supposed to shield us from those who craft evil to deceive?" Then add....the layers of stolen works, plagairism, lies, myths, whitewashing, predation and twi bureaucracy and one has to RETRACE THEIR STEPS TO THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST AND WHY ONE STARTED THE JOURNEY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Why are they at polar extremes? Is it that the 1994 and beyond followers naively THINK that the old farm days were somehow better?
I still remember the old "farm" days, having lunch in the BRC basement, singing "Rollaway" and thinking I was part of some elite organization. But, like a magic trick whose mechanisms are revealed to you, it no longer holds any mystique.
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OldSkool
Modern day HQ is real proud of the bureaucracy. They fancy themselves a legitimate 501c3 non profit that is the best run in the world. There are folks who have been there for years and years who have completely lost touch with what real life is like in modern day society. Funny thing is many of these people were around first hand for Wierwille's abuses as well as Craig. They are desensitized to think it's ok to be abused because they stand for God and he will work it all out in the long run. I mean, afterall, even David sinned. And let's not forget Samuel and the sons of Eli.
All of the multi layered departments and sections at HQ are an exercise in futility. Most of them serve to belabor rather simple tasks with 5 layers of approvals. And at each level of responsibility comes a new security clearance, so to speak. The closer you get to the board of Dummies, Rosalie, Donna, etc. The more their hypocrisy becomes obvious. Still the same ole thing, ready to strain a gnat and swallow a camel just like Wierwille. They have followed their man of God and use his system to carry out the same type of abuses, except with a kinder, gentler, sugary sweet
little ole blue hair running things with her significant other at her side. 
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skyrider
Yeah....complicit in the deception to keep their cozy, pittance jobs.
All the while, twi continues to rewrite their history......like after the Dunc@ns, then GJess is the designated
first corps director. When corps/leaders exit....the whitewashing scrubbing begins. Over and over again.
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socks
I mean, afterall, even David sinned. And let's not forget Samuel and the sons of Eli.
It's just flat out odd to me how a story like David's killing another man to get his wife
and is clearly a
Cautionary tale to the reader
Is interpreted by Wayfers as
Indicative of God's grace and used as a way to measure how far out we can go and still be loved by God because we're God's wuvable wee willy winky bears with power.
And thus leaving out the reality part of it which was that people got killed, more people died including David's next son and his whole nation suffered as a result..
Like the Bibl' says right rhere in the verse right what it's written - "But the thing that David had done displeased the Lord".
That doesn't bother Wayfers I guess. Oh as a way to have a big dramatic crescendo in a teaching sure......."But the thing....that David......had DONE....displeased the Lo-ahrd, my peepul".
But they don't give a crap about displeasing God because - I dunno, I guess they finally accepted what they've seen over the years,that they will never get any ministerial or pastoral leadership from their ranks worth a dime or anyone that will stay with them for any length of time and so they've lowered their standards to allow for complete failure on all levels and....
It's okay! God still wuvs us!! We're His wuvable huggable winky Way Bears With Power!
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Naten00
I find that the ways concept of lowering Christ but also God strategically important to VPW.... Just follow me here a second.
Reading the PFLA binders and listening to who God is to TWI. It seems they have brought God down to mans level...
With VPW successfully bringing God down to a level where He can be totally conceivable as he laid out with his misquote of Isaiah describing God as not being able to be comprehended.
It now gave VPW the position to step in Gods place or at least to usurp the position of Jesus.
At least that is my look at the picture.
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skyrider
socks.....I hear what you are saying, but I gotta tell you that this stuff is fairly common in the twisted world
of indoctrination. I have long held the belief that THE LONGER ONE STAYS...THE MORE TWISTED IT BECOMES.
Manipulation, coersion, indoctrination and exploitation.........the subculture of cults.
Yes, the scriptures CLEARLY say that David sinned.....blah, blah, blah......but then, wierwille taught in pfal how
"every woman in the kingdom belongs to the king!" Why didn't I ask for more clarification? Why didn't I throw my
hands up and say, "I don't believe it"..??
For the past 15 years, I've been aggressively DISMANTLING twi's twisting of scripture........15 years!!!
And, I still believe there is more to go. Now, I certainly don't presume to be no psychologist or anything, but I
see how this indoctrination messes people up a lifetime.
And, I'm lucky.......some corps girls have to deal with past rapes and abortions.
May the Lord break the teeth of these devouring predators!
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skyrider
Still....wayfers and some ex-twiers see wierwille as a modern-day apostle Paul.....or David......or Joshua.
By golly......didn't wierwille teach Paul Bunyan how to swing that mighty axe??!!
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socks
but then, wierwille taught in pfal how
"every woman in the kingdom belongs to the king!" Why didn't I ask for more clarification? Why didn't I throw my
hands up and say, "I don't believe it"..??
I was very surprised to hear years later that some of you took that to have any significance beyond that record or that VPW ever used it in other presentations to infer that someone today had the same arrangements, and that any woman would have had that offered to her as the premise for a sexual affair.
As a matter of historical fact if it's wrong, it's applicable to that record and the way he taught it. It would certainly be wrong today, too. But in PFAL, if you listen to what he teaches in that area of the session there's no reference to today or people today or it having any relationship to people today and in fact the last time I heard it on tape...I'd be hard pressed to take it any other way than I did the first time I heard it on tape, as a historical point that VPW's making in relation to David.
Which if wrong, makes that teaching on that thing wrong. Does it relate to anyone today and can it be used by someone like VPW to support some kind of harem-at-large? Of course not - no. Well, he could, anyone could but obviously it would be wrong.
It would never apply to anyone today and it also has to reconcile with many other areas of the O.T and the Mosaic Law. sooooo....
I understand that there are people here who say they had it taught to them by Way clergy and leaders, and that it meant something today................. but, not me and quite a few others I know.
The morals and ethics of that teaching as it would apply to David were and are more relevant to that time, IMO doesn't have anything to do with us today. Never did.
My point is I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad for standing up and doing whatever - frankly, I don't think you needed to. I don't think that's what he meant - and if he did and he came back later to me and said, Well, socks - see that David and that thing, that means that now, see - it's okay to.....................
I'd have told him he was nuts.
No, actually I'd have disconnected my brain and drooled "Ohhhh, right, yeth thir Mithter Wervuhl, thath rightth"
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geisha779
That doesn't really exemplify sincere Christian love now does it? Abhor evil and cling to good. It is not even close.
Christians have a radical relationship with good and with evil, it is not a tepid one....it is extreme. The irony is sad though..... just consider all the people they tossed out like the days garbage for the slightest infraction. . . . . yet, they are willing to overlook evil for their own gain.
God isn't fooled.....nor is He blind, deaf or dumb.
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chockfull
You know, clinging to this simple truth has been pivotal in my recovery from the negative effects of this bunch of Pharisees.
God is a just God. Do you think when Jesus Christ comes back He is going to say "well done" to leaders who manipulate others for their own gain and their own personal advancement? Do you think He is going to overlook the lust for power and position in their hearts that motivates them? Do you think He will tolerate those that turn a blind eye to the evil functioning in their peers and overseers and do nothing or go along with it to preserve themselves? Do you think the voices of those they have slandered and shunned will not cry out for help? Will He not hear them?
No, He will stand for those that speak out and are persecuted.
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skyrider
Absolutely !!
When I exited twi....the one verse that I held with conviction was Luke 4:18.
Twi did NOT represent the anointed power of Jesus Christ and with each passing decade, twi was becoming the OPPRESSOR
and CAPTOR and ABUSER. I was totally convinced in my heart that leaving twi was deliverance!!
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;
he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty them that are bruised,
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socks
socks.....I hear what you are saying, but I gotta tell you that this stuff is fairly common in the twisted world
of indoctrination.
There's no but in that to me. It is weird, odd, strange and bizzarre.
I like to keep my reality hat on so I don't end up doing exactly what you're stating -
I want to remember that a great deal of what has gone on in the Way isn't unique to the Way or VPW or you or I or this generation, the 60's or the 80's or any one time or era.
I want to remain clearly aware of the broader perspective into which all of this falls.
Indoctrination - that's the way the world works and by that I'm not taking it down to the "world" of the Day-vil, the adversary everyone's so afraid of.
We're all being subjected to indoctrination and influence by other wills and intents.
Stay vigilant to the BS.
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socks
geisha, although my sarcasm does know some boundaries, I wanted to clarfiy that -
No, absolutely not and under no circumstances would I have assumed the no famous "david" record to mean it's okay to get rug burns with anyone I want and if VPW would have suggested that to me I'd have told him he was, if not nuts, fairly nutty.
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skyrider
Hence, like I said........"the twisted world of indoctrination"
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skyrider
Me either.........and that's ANOTHER path of indoctrination.
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OldSkool
The bureaucracy at hq is so thick it takes director approval for interior design to move pictures around in the various hallways.
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geisha779
I would never think that you condone that behavior. . . and I am from Massachusetts, we are raised on sarcasm......my point was TWI and their convenient moral compass. Evil is never okay depending on who the perpetrator is and the way TWI whitewashes things for gain is just another indicator of whom they serve.
As Christians, we have a radical relationship with evil and good....hating one and clinging to the other. It is stark and it is obvious....or at least it should be.
I thought your post was astute!! :)
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excathedra
i can't really remember the scripture(s) used to get me
i recall k.l. telling me something along the lines that it was a gift to please the MOG
i remember the MOG telling me that god's will was for me to get healed from bad past abusive experiences
i'll have to think about this and try to remember if any scripture was involved LOL
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socks
Okay, Geisha. Thanks.
Like you I see the issues as very basic and fundamental.
People made their choices but indoctrinated sky? I don't see it.
Basic issue in my estimation - VPW said he had God's Word and he chose to sell it for a price.
If God is what the Bible says He is, we can't do that and expect to have a good life. I could have all the good in Heaven but when I do that, turn the Father's House into a Flea Market, I'm screwed. People do it, they don't have good lives. They want something other than what God wants. God is a "jealous" kinda guy, He doesn't want competition.
People do that, they may get what they want but they die tired and diseased wondering where they went wrong. It's a lesson worth learning from.
I'm not a saint, I'm just not stupid. I won't compete with God for dollars. I can say from experience it absolutely does not work and will not produce a result that looks like love, humility, peace, grace and mercy. It produces what the Way Nash of New Knoxville is.
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geisha779
Jesus stood up for Stephen. Literally. That always moves me.
I believe God cares greatly about what has happened to people hurt by TWI, and that it is more than either of us can articulate. And I don't think they all await judgement......they are neck deep in heresy and I don't see Him moving to snatch them out. That is judgement too and it is not necessarily delayed judgement.
We can be thankful and call on the Lord to deliver us. At least we know to put our hands out for continued deliverance. :)
Yes, I do think the lord hears those who cry out to Him, but it is difficult when we still believe everything and anything replaces Him.
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DogLover
Well said! God is a just God and there will be consequences.
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skyrider
socks....want to elaborate on the above two statements?
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skyrider
geisha.....thanks.
Those scriptures always move me, as well. A mighty one of valor standing for the True God and His people seems to be one of the epic stories of all mankind. One man, one faith, one mission....it sells at the box office, too. In its least common denominator, I take comfort in knowing that the simplicity is in Christ. A spiritual haven from the storms.
And yet, life gives us countless reminders that evil men work their deeds both in the shadows and bureaucracies of life......business, religion, government, etc. No longer are we living in a world where "a man's handshake is his bond." Perhaps, it never was....but, I see that society is cycling into turbulent times and waxing worse and worse. Seducers and deceivers are on the move, gaining more momentum. To not recognize this is, in my opinion....is an attempt to suppress the truths of scripture.
In less than 10 years, twi became so layered in bureaucracy and corrupt that it was hardly recognizable. Those who remember it as "a farm" and gathered around lunchtime in the brc basement AND those who heard the OSC lunchtime rantings around 1994 and beyond.....are at polar extremes. Is it any wonder why one would question, "How did twi become so embedded with corruption and hypocrisy if gift ministries were truly serving and admonishing in their midst? Where are those men who are supposed to shield us from those who craft evil to deceive?" Then add....the layers of stolen works, plagairism, lies, myths, whitewashing, predation and twi bureaucracy and one has to RETRACE THEIR STEPS TO THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST AND WHY ONE STARTED THE JOURNEY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
And rest a bit. :)
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penworks
Why are they at polar extremes? Is it that the 1994 and beyond followers naively THINK that the old farm days were somehow better?
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waysider
I still remember the old "farm" days, having lunch in the BRC basement, singing "Rollaway" and thinking I was part of some elite organization. But, like a magic trick whose mechanisms are revealed to you, it no longer holds any mystique.
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