It was 2 years after I took the class before I wanted to go to the Advanced Class. I asked a lot of questions about what I saw, or heard taught etc and sometimes I'd get an answer and sometimes they'd tell me it was "Advanced Class stuff". OK so I knew there were 6 other manifestations and I wanted to know all about them and how to use them.
At the end I thought....."but wait is that all there is???" You took so much time and care to teach us how to SIT and get better at it, and also SIT and Interpretation and Prophesy I was hoping to hear a little about how to do it....."if God has a cookie in the jar, you may have it" ain't gonna cut it. I was new at this stuff....but I wasn't gonna lay out my life in front of some of these folks (I'd seen what they did with identifiable information)..so I asked God to teach me...and He did but it took me a long time to learn when God wasn't talking to me.
Sometimes when people would ask me to pray for them, I would, sometimes it was ministering other times it wasn't....but there were a couple of people who'd run right up to me and ask me "what did you get?" like it was the answer to a math problem. Come-on...if you ain't doin'g the homework....don't expect to make much progress!
I took the A.C. about a year after I finished the foundational class. I had already started to become a bit disenchanted with the lack of academic substance in the various "classes". I was told this was because these classes were tailored to appeal to a wide variety of backgrounds and abilities. The A.C., on the other hand (or so I was told), didn't pull any punches. That, they told me, was the reason the requirements were so strict. So, there was a lot of anxious anticipation on my part to finally be part of something that was focused on putting these classes into action.
Through the whole two weeks of the A.C.---I kept waiting for it to START! It was nothing more than a platform for egomaniacs to have a dedicated audience.
That I would receive clear instructions in the other six manifestations, and that being "fully instructed" I would be able to do what was promised.
What was your biggest let down, after finishing it?
(By "after finishing it", I mean immediately after completing it.)
That the teachings were long, rambling, boring, and seemed to obfuscate operation of the revelation and impartation manifestations. Not to mention that I had no idea how to actually do any of the things I shelled out $450.00 to learn how to do. But of course there is the hook. Because if I went way disciple THEN I would REALLY see the power of God in action. I digress.
As I've said before, my time at the A.C. was probably the two most depressing weeks I spent in all my time in The Way. I couldn't understand why everyone else seemed to be "getting" something that, to me, seemed like a bunch of jibber-jabber. (You would think that someone who had studied acting would have recognized a "performance". )
The AC is another exercise in indoctrination. 2 weeks living under the rules, authority in all little things, and power of those at TWI (or whatever other root location holding the class). Away from family, friends, a job, and external reality checks, the AC student is "immersed in the Word".
When you look at the subject matter taught, basically the largest portion of the class is the reading of OT records. These are purported to show OT believers operating the 6 manifestations. There is also the formulaiac approach to manifestations. That leads to ego. Oh, and don't let me forget the devil spirits field. The vast majority of that is superstition accompanied by various adjectives in the Bible. a "jealous" spirit, a spirit "of error", etc. You also have small group types of "exercises", designed to share to help learning. These are closely controlled, and anyone getting too far off track in what they are sharing will be confronted by the group coordinators - Way Corps and leadership in TWI. If someone holds to a thought contrary to TWI's doctrine, and voices it and doesn't repent, they will be kicked out of the AC, leading to being shunned in the local fellowships.
So skipping all the mumbo jumbo, egotistic formulas, and witch hunting enabling adjectives, you basically have a period of time listening to someone read OT records.
Are OT records inspiring and do they teach how to walk in a relationship with God? Sure they are.
Are the clowns at TWI running the Advanced Class inspiring and do their lives teach how to walk in a relationship with God? Couldn't be further from it.
The higher up you get in the organization, the worse people you run into. Those at the top would throw their brother/sister under a bus in an instant to preserve their position, prove their loyalty, and advance their personal gain.
My advice? Stay home, read the OT records by yourself. Live them. I didn't need the hoopla surrounding teaching records of Elijah and the still small voice to know the many small ways God talks to me. He's been doing that since I was a child. The same with any Christian with ears - He is not a respecter of persons. If you do that you won't be sucked in to all the hoopla surrounding the ministry and its leadership, causing you to sell your soul, your family and children, and future to further a cause of false apostles and prophets.
When you look at the subject matter taught, basically the largest portion of the class is the reading of OT records. These are purported to show OT believers operating the 6 manifestations.
I guess they were the lucky ones.
They didn't have to "speak in tongues daily (as) prerequisite to revelation"....page 10/key #3
the worst part was being asked to come forward in the tent when people with needs were standing there
I remember being at the Rock Of Ages, on the closing night, when Wierwille announced there would be a healing service down in front of the stage, at the end of the teaching. He pretty much *demanded* that all AC grads report to the front of the stage and pair up with someone who needed to be ministered to. I found myself thinking, "What the hell is this all about?? If God wants me to go, He will tell me, Himself, and He hasn't." So, I didn't go. As I stood there in the back, murmurings began to shoot through the crowd about people throwing away their crutches, rising from wheel chairs, blind regaining sight and all that kind of stuff. In retrospect, I think the murmurings must have been intentionally instigated by shills because I saw no evidence of anything of the sort. Still, I felt really guilty for a long, long time that I might have deprived someone of deliverance that night. I didn't realize at that time what a sham so much of it was.....I agree, it may well have been the worst part.
I remember being at the Rock Of Ages, on the closing night, when Wierwille announced there would be a healing service down in front of the stage, at the end of the teaching. He pretty much *demanded* that all AC grads report to the front of the stage and pair up with someone who needed to be ministered to. I found myself thinking, "What the hell is this all about??
And.....I found myself thinking, "Why isn't wierwille and his men DOING the ministering?"
And, pouring the sarcasm on real thick.....Isn't that what all true leadership do, LEAD FROM BEHIND???
And.....I found myself thinking, "Why isn't wierwille and his men DOING the ministering?"
And, pouring the sarcasm on real thick.....Isn't that what all true leadership do, LEAD FROM BEHIND???
I never thought of that until just now. The whole time the healing service was going on, Wierwille was on stage, jabbering away through the P.A. system. <_<
Whatever happened to learning at the man of God's feet?
Wierwille would blow in, in the afternoon, "coffee" mug in hand, for some long drawn out "teaching" on definitions he lifted, almost word-for-word from another source.You could have read the whole thing in 5 minutes but he dragged it out for what seemed like hours. Immediately after that, he would disappear. Then you would rehash the definitions in your twigs and talk about how blessed you were to be hearing the definitions. The evening session was basically a rehashed SNS. Sometimes there would be a night-owl in The Way Woods and Wierwille would talk about....himself. Advanced? Not hardly.
Whatever happened to learning at the man of God's feet?
Wierwille would blow in, in the afternoon, "coffee" mug in hand, for some long drawn out "teaching" on definitions he lifted, almost word-for-word from another source.You could have read the whole thing in 5 minutes but he dragged it out for what seemed like hours. Immediately after that, he would disappear. Then you would rehash the definitions in your twigs and talk about how blessed you were to be hearing the definitions. The evening session was basically a rehashed SNS. Sometimes there would be a night-owl in The Way Woods and Wierwille would talk about....himself. Advanced? Not hardly.
Exactly.......the irony dripped of hypocrisy.
And, further still......wierwille would share his love of poetry and such.
I'D RATHER SEE A SERMON THAN HEAR ONE ANY DAY,
I'D RATHER ONE WOULD WALK WITH ME THAN MERELY POINT THE WAY.
Oh yes, most every teacher of "advanced classes" had love offerings for gifts. I remember sometimes even PFAL and in the early years it was to replace some of the goods provided by the home. I had no problem with that. If I was that home owner I'd be unhappy if I had to replace the TP used by 16 - 20 people for 13 meetings!
Later it evolved, at least in my area, into a contest....who could out-do the next guy. When that happened it was stopped from the top down....except for the head mog, of course....he always got a pretty hefty gift. It was proper protocol!~~
Oh yes, most every teacher of "advanced classes" had love offerings for gifts. I remember sometimes even PFAL and in the early years it was to replace some of the goods provided by the home. I had no problem with that. If I was that home owner I'd be unhappy if I had to replace the TP used by 16 - 20 people for 13 meetings!
Later it evolved, at least in my area, into a contest....who could out-do the next guy. When that happened it was stopped from the top down....except for the head mog, of course....he always got a pretty hefty gift. It was proper protocol!~~
Well, I'll bet they already knew what you had gotten them, on account of all that revelation they were getting.
Not really Waysider...I think they picked it out ahead of time. At least that's what it seemed like. One of the classes gave him a cottage. He was infatuated with these things. They were lovely...perfect and very miniature. I forgot how much it cost...it was pretty pricey, but the class was large so it wasn't too much money each.
He used several of the cottages he already owned as examples of what he was teaching. It had to do with "perfection" - hitting the mark each and every time.
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krys
It was 2 years after I took the class before I wanted to go to the Advanced Class. I asked a lot of questions about what I saw, or heard taught etc and sometimes I'd get an answer and sometimes they'd tell me it was "Advanced Class stuff". OK so I knew there were 6 other manifestations and I wanted to know all about them and how to use them.
At the end I thought....."but wait is that all there is???" You took so much time and care to teach us how to SIT and get better at it, and also SIT and Interpretation and Prophesy I was hoping to hear a little about how to do it....."if God has a cookie in the jar, you may have it" ain't gonna cut it. I was new at this stuff....but I wasn't gonna lay out my life in front of some of these folks (I'd seen what they did with identifiable information)..so I asked God to teach me...and He did but it took me a long time to learn when God wasn't talking to me.
Sometimes when people would ask me to pray for them, I would, sometimes it was ministering other times it wasn't....but there were a couple of people who'd run right up to me and ask me "what did you get?" like it was the answer to a math problem. Come-on...if you ain't doin'g the homework....don't expect to make much progress!
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waysider
I took the A.C. about a year after I finished the foundational class. I had already started to become a bit disenchanted with the lack of academic substance in the various "classes". I was told this was because these classes were tailored to appeal to a wide variety of backgrounds and abilities. The A.C., on the other hand (or so I was told), didn't pull any punches. That, they told me, was the reason the requirements were so strict. So, there was a lot of anxious anticipation on my part to finally be part of something that was focused on putting these classes into action.
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Rejoice
Through the whole two weeks of the A.C.---I kept waiting for it to START! It was nothing more than a platform for egomaniacs to have a dedicated audience.
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OldSkool
That I would receive clear instructions in the other six manifestations, and that being "fully instructed" I would be able to do what was promised.
That the teachings were long, rambling, boring, and seemed to obfuscate operation of the revelation and impartation manifestations. Not to mention that I had no idea how to actually do any of the things I shelled out $450.00 to learn how to do. But of course there is the hook. Because if I went way disciple THEN I would REALLY see the power of God in action. I digress.
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skyrider
My expectations going in were very high. For me, having been out WOW Ambassador for two years and seeing
some "God-works-wonders" situations, some healings, some spiritual-darkness questions......I was looking
forward to wierwille teaching with specific clarity. Studying some of the Old Testament records were very
thought-provoking and insightful, but I was expecting much more from wierwille. Where were the specifics?
Why just old "black-heart, red-heart revelation" from the 1960's? How about TODAY???
Along with these nagging questions and lacking specifics.......the advanced class seemed to move into a tangent
of 1) The Myth of the Six Million? 2) The Thirteeth Tribe? 3) The Hoax of the Holocaust? Why was wierwille
spending all this time on discrediting Jews, and Jewish history? I thought the advanced class was going to
specifically teach me how to walk with God?.....not indoctrinate my thinking with doctrine or prejudices?
Then.....those "release groups" were simply times of regurgitating the same information back to one another.
Not a time for discussion or questioning.....nope. These after-lunch release groups were closely scripted to monitor
the group....to give an impression of connectiveness while wierwille and other bigwigs took a nap.
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waysider
As I've said before, my time at the A.C. was probably the two most depressing weeks I spent in all my time in The Way. I couldn't understand why everyone else seemed to be "getting" something that, to me, seemed like a bunch of jibber-jabber. (You would think that someone who had studied acting would have recognized a "performance".
)
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skyrider
You know.....we were manipulated.
Why didn't wierwille/twi openly sanction the "no question is a stupid question" atmosphere? Having plagairized
whole swaths of information, wierwille was NOT equipped to teach by experience the things of the advanced class.
Therefore, he projected the myth of mogness......a sleight of hand and cunning craftiness wherein he was lying in
wait to deceive.
I believe that few advanced class grads have ever stopped to realize the indoctrination process involved. Heck,
even the prerequisite classes.....The Way Tree, The Renewed Mind, Biblical Keys to Research, Christian Family
and Sex.....were laying groundwork for manipulation and indoctrination. Even today's twi has phased out whole
segments of this prerequisite process and if that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what else would?
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chockfull
The AC is another exercise in indoctrination. 2 weeks living under the rules, authority in all little things, and power of those at TWI (or whatever other root location holding the class). Away from family, friends, a job, and external reality checks, the AC student is "immersed in the Word".
When you look at the subject matter taught, basically the largest portion of the class is the reading of OT records. These are purported to show OT believers operating the 6 manifestations. There is also the formulaiac approach to manifestations. That leads to ego. Oh, and don't let me forget the devil spirits field. The vast majority of that is superstition accompanied by various adjectives in the Bible. a "jealous" spirit, a spirit "of error", etc. You also have small group types of "exercises", designed to share to help learning. These are closely controlled, and anyone getting too far off track in what they are sharing will be confronted by the group coordinators - Way Corps and leadership in TWI. If someone holds to a thought contrary to TWI's doctrine, and voices it and doesn't repent, they will be kicked out of the AC, leading to being shunned in the local fellowships.
So skipping all the mumbo jumbo, egotistic formulas, and witch hunting enabling adjectives, you basically have a period of time listening to someone read OT records.
Are OT records inspiring and do they teach how to walk in a relationship with God? Sure they are.
Are the clowns at TWI running the Advanced Class inspiring and do their lives teach how to walk in a relationship with God? Couldn't be further from it.
The higher up you get in the organization, the worse people you run into. Those at the top would throw their brother/sister under a bus in an instant to preserve their position, prove their loyalty, and advance their personal gain.
My advice? Stay home, read the OT records by yourself. Live them. I didn't need the hoopla surrounding teaching records of Elijah and the still small voice to know the many small ways God talks to me. He's been doing that since I was a child. The same with any Christian with ears - He is not a respecter of persons. If you do that you won't be sucked in to all the hoopla surrounding the ministry and its leadership, causing you to sell your soul, your family and children, and future to further a cause of false apostles and prophets.
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waysider
I guess they were the lucky ones.
They didn't have to "speak in tongues daily (as) prerequisite to revelation"....page 10/key #3
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OldSkool
Or speak in tongues to "build up" an already perfect spirit, you know, like spiritual weight lifting or something.
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excathedra
the worst part was being asked to come forward in the tent when people with needs were standing there
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waysider
I remember being at the Rock Of Ages, on the closing night, when Wierwille announced there would be a healing service down in front of the stage, at the end of the teaching. He pretty much *demanded* that all AC grads report to the front of the stage and pair up with someone who needed to be ministered to. I found myself thinking, "What the hell is this all about?? If God wants me to go, He will tell me, Himself, and He hasn't." So, I didn't go. As I stood there in the back, murmurings began to shoot through the crowd about people throwing away their crutches, rising from wheel chairs, blind regaining sight and all that kind of stuff. In retrospect, I think the murmurings must have been intentionally instigated by shills because I saw no evidence of anything of the sort. Still, I felt really guilty for a long, long time that I might have deprived someone of deliverance that night. I didn't realize at that time what a sham so much of it was.....I agree, it may well have been the worst part.
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skyrider
And.....I found myself thinking, "Why isn't wierwille and his men DOING the ministering?"
And, pouring the sarcasm on real thick.....Isn't that what all true leadership do, LEAD FROM BEHIND???
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frank123lol
Some roa we(ac) grads were asked to minister to people,Lucky me,a guy in a whell chair,I just prayed for him ,turns out he was in condemnation,
go figure,I didn't know healing was on demand.
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waysider
I never thought of that until just now.
The whole time the healing service was going on, Wierwille was on stage, jabbering away through the P.A. system. <_<
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skyrider
That's one of the things that irked me, year after year....
I wanted to SEE wierwille do something, rather than just talk.
With each passing year, the hypocrisy of wierwille mounted in my mind.
Wierwille kept hiding behind his men....and his men kept hiding behind the corps.
Soon, the corps were blamed for "the word not moving."
And, to top it off.....Cgeer's POP accuses the corps of "abandoning the man of God."
A d@mn circular firing squad.....with the corps in the middle.
Saw it coming and could never follow pathetic geer.
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waysider
Whatever happened to learning at the man of God's feet?
Wierwille would blow in, in the afternoon, "coffee" mug in hand, for some long drawn out "teaching" on definitions he lifted, almost word-for-word from another source.You could have read the whole thing in 5 minutes but he dragged it out for what seemed like hours. Immediately after that, he would disappear. Then you would rehash the definitions in your twigs and talk about how blessed you were to be hearing the definitions. The evening session was basically a rehashed SNS. Sometimes there would be a night-owl in The Way Woods and Wierwille would talk about....himself. Advanced? Not hardly.
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skyrider
Exactly.......the irony dripped of hypocrisy.
And, further still......wierwille would share his love of poetry and such.
I'D RATHER SEE A SERMON THAN HEAR ONE ANY DAY,
I'D RATHER ONE WOULD WALK WITH ME THAN MERELY POINT THE WAY.
(blah, blah, blah)
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krys
We learned a lot from the mog's feet - - only not so much that I want to brag about!
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waysider
We took up an offering to get him some kind of trinket. Did other classes do this, as well?
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krys
Oh yes, most every teacher of "advanced classes" had love offerings for gifts. I remember sometimes even PFAL and in the early years it was to replace some of the goods provided by the home. I had no problem with that. If I was that home owner I'd be unhappy if I had to replace the TP used by 16 - 20 people for 13 meetings!
Later it evolved, at least in my area, into a contest....who could out-do the next guy. When that happened it was stopped from the top down....except for the head mog, of course....he always got a pretty hefty gift. It was proper protocol!~~
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waysider
Well, I'll bet they already knew what you had gotten them, on account of all that revelation they were getting.
hahahahahaha!
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krys
Not really Waysider...I think they picked it out ahead of time. At least that's what it seemed like. One of the classes gave him a cottage. He was infatuated with these things. They were lovely...perfect and very miniature. I forgot how much it cost...it was pretty pricey, but the class was large so it wasn't too much money each.
He used several of the cottages he already owned as examples of what he was teaching. It had to do with "perfection" - hitting the mark each and every time.
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waysider
Heh!
Reminds me of the scene in Christmas Story where
Come to think of it, maybe that's what really happened to VP's eye.
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