waysider......that clip reminds me of the time when all the inresidence corps
in Emporia were instructed to 'hoof-it' about 4 miles to that gun-safety course
in the outskirts of town. I don't think that we whistled that song, though.
We had a similar walk out to probably the same place ... worked in the woods that day, clearing brush and so on ... it was actually fun to be outdoors in the fall, had a neat cookout, and walked back ... seemed like maybe that weekend was the separate Men's and Women's Advances, which were NOT so much fun. By the time I came along (13th Corps), they were not offering the Gun Safety Course.
We had a similar walk out to probably the same place ... worked in the woods that day, clearing brush and so on ... it was actually fun to be outdoors in the fall, had a neat cookout, and walked back ...
DogLover.....yeah, probably the same place. I, too, liked being outdoors, but mostly it stands juxtaposed
to TWI'S CLASSROOM INDOCTRINATION.
For me, having grown up in rural America......hunting pheasants, riding motorcycles, farm work, sports and
games, being outside was a given, not a treat! Just seemed like twi used "work days" like this, to score a
'likeable moment in corps training.' I will forever view the corps program as INDOCTRINATION WHOLESALE.
The corps coordinators incrementally lulled us into accepting the wierwille-worship.
I'm quite sure this post sounds quite harsh.......but I can't sugarcoat twi's evil. Gee, they "let us out
of class so we could work for 3 hours!"....how wonderful. Isn't that a technique used by captors?
Wierwille never trained people to be real leaders. He trained people to be "yes-men", and to browbeat others into becoming "yes-men".
That's why it all fell apart after Wierwille died.
According to Petty Officer 3&2, the training manual the Navy was using when I first began to assume the responsibilities of leadership, the three requirements for a good leader were these, in order of priority: 1. Good moral character, 2. Leading by personal example and 3. Administrative ability.
TWI leadership training failed in the first two priorities because Wierwille failed in the first two priorities.
In the aftermath of The Passing of A Patriarch, I realized Martindale didn't have the leadership skills necessary to lead a bunch of lemmings over a cliff!
I also think it's cute that vpw was smart enough to occasionally be seen publicly to do some
work on the farm. That may have been a show or a few minutes of work, but it went a long way
to help cover up his laziness and lies.
See, some of this is new to me. I came along in the mid nineties and didn't make it to HQ till the start of the new millennium. Wierwille was lauded as the hardest working man of God on two legs. And in-residence? OMG - we all NEEDED to learn to work, even though I spent years in the construction fields busting my hump (example - used to spend weeks in my early twenties running a 90 pound jack hammer all day.) We were constantly told how hard Wierwille worked and how diligent he studied and how little sleep he got and how he was there to meet the needs of the people at all hours. I kid you not. Figures, just when you think most of the lies regarding this man have been found out along comes another bomb shell.
...vpw was smart enough to occasionally be seen publicly to do some work on the farm. That may have been a show or a few minutes of work, but it went a long way to help cover up his laziness and lies.
Couldn't say as I never met the man.
I don't think I can agree with you that he was a lazy farmer.
He appears to me to be a very good farmer.
He farmed mugs and was very successful. He's built up a huge fortune from growing mugs; the bulk of the fortune still exists. He kept back some of the mug seed, planted again, refined the strain and got better and better and again got good yields. In fact, the seed from the mugs continues to be fairly successful and has been planted in other fertile ground and has brought forth many other crops and strains of mugs.
See, some of this is new to me. I came along in the mid nineties and didn't make it to HQ till the start of the new millennium. Wierwille was lauded as the hardest working man of God on two legs. And in-residence? OMG - we all NEEDED to learn to work, even though I spent years in the construction fields busting my hump (example - used to spend weeks in my early twenties running a 90 pound jack hammer all day.) We were constantly told how hard Wierwille worked and how diligent he studied and how little sleep he got and how he was there to meet the needs of the people at all hours. I kid you not. Figures, just when you think most of the lies regarding this man have been found out along comes another bomb shell.
OldSkool......for what its worth, after exiting twi I believe most all find themselves in transition to distinguish
wierwille-reality from the wierwille-mythical. The subculture of twi hierarchy had self-serving interests to magnifying
wierwille's background and image. It's quite easy to uncover the deception for those who are motivated to see how the
manipulation was manufactured.
Like all things.....it ain't nothing new. And, I tend to see it as a cultlike folklore....or fakelore. Twi magnifies
the absurd and wants to exaggerate to increase committed followers.
yeah, despite attending college and seminary, Wierwille had no background in setting up TWC as a theological seminary/divinity school, instead he conned people thinking WC was more Peace Corps but was Marine Corps/military boot camp(which if a Sgt. or officer physically beats/batters a private, said personnel can be tried by a military tribunal court and/or criminal court, be sent to prison and loose all priviledges). But VPW, CG, and LCM had no authorities above them to reprimand them. Even all the military oppose that strict group think, at least officially(Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court can outlaw such groups if they become a meance to society).
See, some of this is new to me. I came along in the mid nineties and didn't make it to HQ till the start of the new millennium. Wierwille was lauded as the hardest working man of God on two legs. And in-residence? OMG - we all NEEDED to learn to work, even though I spent years in the construction fields busting my hump (example - used to spend weeks in my early twenties running a 90 pound jack hammer all day.) We were constantly told how hard Wierwille worked and how diligent he studied and how little sleep he got and how he was there to meet the needs of the people at all hours. I kid you not. Figures, just when you think most of the lies regarding this man have been found out along comes another bomb shell.
I recommend you read through the 2 "wonderland" threads,
"the way:living in wonderland" and "vp and me in wonderland".
Sounds like there's a lot on both threads you haven't heard yet.
yeah, despite attending college and seminary, Wierwille had no background in setting up TWC as a theological seminary/divinity school, instead he conned people thinking WC was more Peace Corps but was Marine Corps/military boot camp(which if a Sgt. or officer physically beats/batters a private, said personnel can be tried by a military tribunal court and/or criminal court, be sent to prison and loose all privileges). But VPW, CG, and LCM had no authorities above them to reprimand them. Even all the military oppose that strict group think, at least officially(Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court can outlaw such groups if they become a menace to society).
Ok, let's review.
vpw originally went to school and eventually narrowed his possible career choices down to 3: business, music, ministry,
eventually selecting ministry. (By his own admission, he did not believe the Bible was The Word of God at the time.)
He went to college, and then to Princeton Theological Seminary for his Masters. (That's a respectable seminary
that has no connection to Princeton University other than location in Princeton NJ- but to hear lcm say it in public,
vpw went to Princeton-with the implication it was the University and not the Seminary.) vpw's area of study was
never what he later set himself forth as an authority on- it was HOMILETICS, or PREACHING. He did not focus on
Bible languages, history, or any other subject which requires real study time- despite his later claims of making
his life about Bible study. His major was "writing sermons and preaching them." He completed his education at
an unaccredited organization- Pike's Peak Seminary, which was a LOT easier than trying to graduate with a PhD from,
say, Princeton Theological Seminary. He then began preaching- still while not believing the Bible was The Word
of God, according to vpw.
His claims to being a "remarkable" student begin and end with him playing on the basketball team in high school,
and vague comments meant to be interpreted that he was on the college team and playing for the Sheboygan
Redskins professional team (he neither was on his college's varsity team nor a member of the Sheboygan Redskins.)
He was never-ACADEMICALLY- a noteworthy student. Why is this relevant now? Very simple.
vpw made claims about "leadership programs" like the WOW program and the Corps. However, vpw was COMPLETELY
UNQUALIFIED to run such a program, let alone set one up. Look at both programs- they are grossly inadequate
and very vague. Supervising of them was sporadic and arbitrary, and no CLEAR, CONSISTENT guidelines were ever
presented for candidates to either- nor was there even a "vetting" program for either. vpw had never
PARTICIPATED in any leadership training program, and had no military training either- not even ROTC.
So, what did he base the programs on? His vague notions about such things from popular movies. He claimed
to base the Corps on the military at one point- but had no idea how things were there at all. He also claimed
the WOW program was a relevant, local type of missionary work (that was the selling point)- but he had no idea
how THAT worked, either. He used vague notions of both, added his desire to be worshipped, and made the only
"vetting" process "YOU CAN STAY AS LONG AS YOUR MONEY HOLDS" as to whether someone was a viable candidate-
and rounded it out with getting free labor from the students- who PAID FOR THE PRIVILIGE of doing manual labor.
He made various claims, none of which bear any scrutiny-
-this is like what Paul did in Acts
-this is based on the military
-this is a leadership training program
-you can't find better than this in the world
etc, etc.
The only "professional" part-unless you count the exercise- was when vpw added DALE CARNEGIE SALES CLASSES
to the mix. Not training on counseling, not training on management- training in SALES. vpw didn't CARE
about how the people were managed, if they ever needed counseling, etc. He wanted the Corps to be effective
SALESPEOPLE for twi.
Small wonder the Corps program caused lots of problems, released untrained "leaders" who wrecked things,
and brought in a tidy profit for twi.
Yes, some good people came out of the Corps as well- I hold that to be because they were good people going
in and the program was unable to wreck that. In other cases, it WAS able, and in others, people unfit for
candidacy had their money so they completed and were assigned places to wreck.
Johnnie T made US cry the day he out of the blue walked into our house on the wow field while were committing the sin of watching a cartoon on TV in the afternoon. After the requisite reaming out, we all scampered off to pretend to go witnessing.
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waysider
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skyrider
waysider......that clip reminds me of the time when all the inresidence corps
in Emporia were instructed to 'hoof-it' about 4 miles to that gun-safety course
in the outskirts of town. I don't think that we whistled that song, though.
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DogLover
We had a similar walk out to probably the same place ... worked in the woods that day, clearing brush and so on ... it was actually fun to be outdoors in the fall, had a neat cookout, and walked back ... seemed like maybe that weekend was the separate Men's and Women's Advances, which were NOT so much fun. By the time I came along (13th Corps), they were not offering the Gun Safety Course.
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skyrider
DogLover.....yeah, probably the same place. I, too, liked being outdoors, but mostly it stands juxtaposed
to TWI'S CLASSROOM INDOCTRINATION.
For me, having grown up in rural America......hunting pheasants, riding motorcycles, farm work, sports and
games, being outside was a given, not a treat! Just seemed like twi used "work days" like this, to score a
'likeable moment in corps training.' I will forever view the corps program as INDOCTRINATION WHOLESALE.
The corps coordinators incrementally lulled us into accepting the wierwille-worship.
I'm quite sure this post sounds quite harsh.......but I can't sugarcoat twi's evil. Gee, they "let us out
of class so we could work for 3 hours!"....how wonderful. Isn't that a technique used by captors?
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Ham
I wonder if un-mucking the vicster's pond was engineered to be a "likeable event" as well..
but anyway.. the Illusion of leadership seemed to exist on so many levels..
how many *leadership* blew the whistle on the sexcapades, rape, adultery.. unclean behavior and the like, before they HAD TO or were forced to?
just seems to me, a leader's prime duty would be to protect those around him/her/it.
maybe they had the illusion, that an ORGANIZATION held more importance than the people it encompassed..
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skyrider
What twi pawned off as "leadership" was...........GROOMING.
Twi groomed the inner-circle for years, decades for some......elite privileges, insider info,
'spiritually-mature classified knowledge,' bribes, babes, booze, free-passes, ego-stroking, etc.
Titillating temptations are dangled in front of them, and few resist.
Birds of a feather flock together.....and narcissists groom other narcissists, bullies groom bullies,
and round and round it goes. That's why evil waxes worse and worse. Once one gives in on standards and
principles, especially the biblical/moral values.....it spirals downward from there.
And....from what we've learned about wierwille, he didn't start on very high ground to begin with.
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skyrider
And, speaking of work....
When wierwille addressed our corps and said NONE of you ever learned how to work......he was WRONG!
There was not one thing in the corps training that I hadn't learned regarding work, not one!
My brothers and I were up at 5:30am and headed to the field to move irrigation pipe before school.
In the summer, I started driving tractors at 10 years old and the combine one year later. With wheat,
corn, milo, alfalfa, beans, cattle, and sheep......farm life was quite a childhood.
The corps work program was a joke!
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waysider
And, this stuff came from a guy who (documented in The Way: Living in Love) was known to hide in the woods so he could shirk his childhood chores.
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skyrider
Yeah......and the smell of hypocrisy and pride was undeniable.
Even while inresidence corps, I made a vow to God that I never wanted to be like wierwille.
Although not wanting to fully admit it, I knew deep down that vpw was simply a smooth-operator,
to charm and entice. Like a chameleon, he was always changing with the situation around him.
He loved to bask in the spotlight and soak in the praise.
Everything at hq showed me that twi was just another religion.
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johniam
quote:
Remember......A Leaf on a Mighty Tree? Chapter and verse, please.
Remember......Twigs, Branches, Limbs? Chapter and verse, please.
Exodus chapter 18, entire chapter. It's just delegation of responsibility regardless of terminology.
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skyrider
So.....the Old Testament is the defining symbolism of wierwille's "new, dynamic church?"
That's rich..!!
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waysider
Where's that administrations stuff when you really need it?
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skyrider
This was NOT taught in pfal.....nor in the Way Tree class. Most remember how the book of Acts
was considered 'the blueprint for delegation and moving the word.'
Interestingly, wierwille pawns off his 'way tree' setup for his ministry that is UNBIBLICAL.
Of course, he couldn't utilize the scriptures and teach the One Body with CHRIST AS THE HEAD with
members in particular, on relatively equal basis of importance and subservient to the Head.
Nope, wierwille does the regular cherry-picking of scriptures, and in this case he uses out-an-out
deception to indoctrinate and coerce his followers. Yeah, wierwille uses lip service to grandstand
his 'mastery of the word' and then subverts its meaning.
He did give lip-service to the One Body......but the driving imagery and subsequent class
was The Way Tree setup. Yeah, that's the kool-aide mentality on the road to the advanced class.
Twi uses an oak tree for its logo.
A tree.
In scripture, a tree could illustrate good OR evil.
In scripture, a tree could represent growth OR barren.
The fig tree dried up from the roots.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Etc.
.
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Steve Lortz
Wierwille never trained people to be real leaders. He trained people to be "yes-men", and to browbeat others into becoming "yes-men".
That's why it all fell apart after Wierwille died.
According to Petty Officer 3&2, the training manual the Navy was using when I first began to assume the responsibilities of leadership, the three requirements for a good leader were these, in order of priority: 1. Good moral character, 2. Leading by personal example and 3. Administrative ability.
TWI leadership training failed in the first two priorities because Wierwille failed in the first two priorities.
In the aftermath of The Passing of A Patriarch, I realized Martindale didn't have the leadership skills necessary to lead a bunch of lemmings over a cliff!
Love,
Steve
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WordWolf
twi THEMSELVES documented that vpw, as he grew up, REGULARLY vanished when it was time
to do his chores and work on the farm. (Seems that whenever he wasn't being watched,
he never did what he CLAIMED to do, and had to be watched to be trusted to do ANYTHING.)
When he discussed the idea of going into Christian ministry, his own father flatly claimed
that was a bad choice because he'd never even put in the effort for something as straightforward
as farming. (AS DOCUMENTED BY TWI.) His own brother documented vpw would vanish for hours-
then claimed that when Harry himself was unable to see him, vpw was "preaching to the trees"-
which was something Billy Graham did. But vpw himself told the corps he was never full of deep
spiritual conviction when he was growing up- he was unsure whether to choose business, music,
or preaching, according to him. He also was ready, more than once, to give up on ministry,
as documented by twi, within his first few years of preaching. Also, he himself (as documented
by twi) admitted that his entire decision to be a preacher and his time in school to prepare
for that, and his entire first year of preaching, HE DID NOT BELIEVE THE BIBLE WAS THE WORD
OF GOD. So, it's plainly obvious that Harry's COVERUP was a lie. vpw ran and hid when it
was time to do chores, and he was a lazy farmer.
As documented by twi, he REGULARLY claimed that all the kids arriving in twi didn't know how
to work. That included "kids" who had already served tours of duty in the US Military.
That should raise a few eyebrows- the military puts people to work. By the time any of them
had completed Boot Camp, they'd worked harder than vpw had ever worked on the farm.
But vpw always claimed they didn't know how to work and he did- which was 2 lies.
However, it gave him the opening, the excuse, to put them to work on the farms, for which
they PAID for the privilege of doing manual labor. As we can see from this thread, some of
the non-military already had practice at working harder on a farm than vpw did.
I also think it's cute that vpw was smart enough to occasionally be seen publicly to do some
work on the farm. That may have been a show or a few minutes of work, but it went a long way
to help cover up his laziness and lies. There's still people who refuse to admit vpw was a
lazy bum of a farmer who hypocritically accused others of what he himself did.
Even when it was completely false when applied to them.
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OldSkool
See, some of this is new to me. I came along in the mid nineties and didn't make it to HQ till the start of the new millennium. Wierwille was lauded as the hardest working man of God on two legs. And in-residence? OMG - we all NEEDED to learn to work, even though I spent years in the construction fields busting my hump (example - used to spend weeks in my early twenties running a 90 pound jack hammer all day.) We were constantly told how hard Wierwille worked and how diligent he studied and how little sleep he got and how he was there to meet the needs of the people at all hours. I kid you not. Figures, just when you think most of the lies regarding this man have been found out along comes another bomb shell.
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Twinky
Couldn't say as I never met the man.
I don't think I can agree with you that he was a lazy farmer.
He appears to me to be a very good farmer.
He farmed mugs and was very successful. He's built up a huge fortune from growing mugs; the bulk of the fortune still exists. He kept back some of the mug seed, planted again, refined the strain and got better and better and again got good yields. In fact, the seed from the mugs continues to be fairly successful and has been planted in other fertile ground and has brought forth many other crops and strains of mugs.
:P
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skyrider
OldSkool......for what its worth, after exiting twi I believe most all find themselves in transition to distinguish
wierwille-reality from the wierwille-mythical. The subculture of twi hierarchy had self-serving interests to magnifying
wierwille's background and image. It's quite easy to uncover the deception for those who are motivated to see how the
manipulation was manufactured.
Like all things.....it ain't nothing new. And, I tend to see it as a cultlike folklore....or fakelore. Twi magnifies
the absurd and wants to exaggerate to increase committed followers.
Click Here --- Folklore
Click Here --- Fakelore
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
yeah, despite attending college and seminary, Wierwille had no background in setting up TWC as a theological seminary/divinity school, instead he conned people thinking WC was more Peace Corps but was Marine Corps/military boot camp(which if a Sgt. or officer physically beats/batters a private, said personnel can be tried by a military tribunal court and/or criminal court, be sent to prison and loose all priviledges). But VPW, CG, and LCM had no authorities above them to reprimand them. Even all the military oppose that strict group think, at least officially(Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court can outlaw such groups if they become a meance to society).
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WordWolf
I recommend you read through the 2 "wonderland" threads,
"the way:living in wonderland" and "vp and me in wonderland".
Sounds like there's a lot on both threads you haven't heard yet.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
just thought of this song from Bye, bye Birdie(musical parody of Elvis Pressly) with change of words" O Victor Paul, we love you
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WordWolf
Ok, let's review.
vpw originally went to school and eventually narrowed his possible career choices down to 3: business, music, ministry,
eventually selecting ministry. (By his own admission, he did not believe the Bible was The Word of God at the time.)
He went to college, and then to Princeton Theological Seminary for his Masters. (That's a respectable seminary
that has no connection to Princeton University other than location in Princeton NJ- but to hear lcm say it in public,
vpw went to Princeton-with the implication it was the University and not the Seminary.) vpw's area of study was
never what he later set himself forth as an authority on- it was HOMILETICS, or PREACHING. He did not focus on
Bible languages, history, or any other subject which requires real study time- despite his later claims of making
his life about Bible study. His major was "writing sermons and preaching them." He completed his education at
an unaccredited organization- Pike's Peak Seminary, which was a LOT easier than trying to graduate with a PhD from,
say, Princeton Theological Seminary. He then began preaching- still while not believing the Bible was The Word
of God, according to vpw.
His claims to being a "remarkable" student begin and end with him playing on the basketball team in high school,
and vague comments meant to be interpreted that he was on the college team and playing for the Sheboygan
Redskins professional team (he neither was on his college's varsity team nor a member of the Sheboygan Redskins.)
He was never-ACADEMICALLY- a noteworthy student. Why is this relevant now? Very simple.
vpw made claims about "leadership programs" like the WOW program and the Corps. However, vpw was COMPLETELY
UNQUALIFIED to run such a program, let alone set one up. Look at both programs- they are grossly inadequate
and very vague. Supervising of them was sporadic and arbitrary, and no CLEAR, CONSISTENT guidelines were ever
presented for candidates to either- nor was there even a "vetting" program for either. vpw had never
PARTICIPATED in any leadership training program, and had no military training either- not even ROTC.
So, what did he base the programs on? His vague notions about such things from popular movies. He claimed
to base the Corps on the military at one point- but had no idea how things were there at all. He also claimed
the WOW program was a relevant, local type of missionary work (that was the selling point)- but he had no idea
how THAT worked, either. He used vague notions of both, added his desire to be worshipped, and made the only
"vetting" process "YOU CAN STAY AS LONG AS YOUR MONEY HOLDS" as to whether someone was a viable candidate-
and rounded it out with getting free labor from the students- who PAID FOR THE PRIVILIGE of doing manual labor.
He made various claims, none of which bear any scrutiny-
-this is like what Paul did in Acts
-this is based on the military
-this is a leadership training program
-you can't find better than this in the world
etc, etc.
The only "professional" part-unless you count the exercise- was when vpw added DALE CARNEGIE SALES CLASSES
to the mix. Not training on counseling, not training on management- training in SALES. vpw didn't CARE
about how the people were managed, if they ever needed counseling, etc. He wanted the Corps to be effective
SALESPEOPLE for twi.
Small wonder the Corps program caused lots of problems, released untrained "leaders" who wrecked things,
and brought in a tidy profit for twi.
Yes, some good people came out of the Corps as well- I hold that to be because they were good people going
in and the program was unable to wreck that. In other cases, it WAS able, and in others, people unfit for
candidacy had their money so they completed and were assigned places to wreck.
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skyrider
The corps program was designed to groom effective CLASS INSTRUCTORS........period.
Witnessing, undershepherding, registering, bookstore display setup, class room setup, monitoring class,
report back, send in abs, run twig with goal to split twig...........repeat process ad infinitum.
Johnnie T. was wierwille's prototype model.
Johnnie T. was one of vp's first class instructors.
Johnnie T. taught The Way Tree indoctrination.
Johnnie T. was known to cry when talking about wierwille.
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hiway29
Johnnie T made US cry the day he out of the blue walked into our house on the wow field while were committing the sin of watching a cartoon on TV in the afternoon. After the requisite reaming out, we all scampered off to pretend to go witnessing.
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