Sin Consciousness and The Absent Christ

[JavaJane]

I just finished one of my classes to become a part of the Catholic church.  The topic tonight was salvation, justification, sin, grace, and conversion.  Basic Christian stuff, right?  Or so you would think - but the contrast between this and twi was immense.

Sin - in twi, nothing more than "missing the mark." We shouldn't even have sin-consciousness.  No sin is any bigger than any other sin in God's eyes.  Feeling guilty or condemning oneself for sinning was broken fellowship.  Etc. etc. etc...

Justification "just as if you never sinned."

And, along with this, all the sacraments and symbols present in most Christian churches that show or represent the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for our sin were never present - no baptism, no crosses, communion only once a year...  No kneeling in prayer.

I hope this all makes sense.  It's hard to put into words - it was a huge epiphany of understanding for me...  Suddenly the "absent Christ" and the reason and necessity of His sacrifice came into focus in a way I had never seen before (probably because He was ABSENT in twi doctrine.)

No more was this just a necessary sacrifice to fulfil a legal contract...  Jesus died for MY sins.  

Probably pretty elementary for most, but eye opening for me who had been taught twi doctrine from my youth.

[waysider]

I think, maybe, VPW was suffering from sin-UNconsciousness.

[OldSkool]

I dunno....absent Christ? Really, within the way international, the board of dummies direct the affairs of the "church." Chairman Rosie is the head. Christian in name only.

They are hard hearted and hard headed. Perhaps sin conscienceless aptly describes them.

[Jbarrax]

I think sin consciousness and licentiousness can both be taken to extremes. And, imho, the Way and the Catholic Church are good examples.

We all know about VP's licentiousness and the extremes to which he went to break down people's resistance to his immoral behavior. He justified that by preaching about the dangers of sin consciousness.

On the other hand, there are many who have rebelled, not only against Catholicism, but against Christianity as a whole because of the extremes of sin and condemnation Catholicism presents. George Carlin comes to mind. In his 'sortabiography' he says that the idea that a loving God would condemn a person to an eternity in hell because they missed mass (or committed some other mortal sin) was something he couldn't get around.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this still a Catholic doctrine?

[Ham]

Sin Consciousness.. Sinner..

am I going to hell..

probably. I've followed the doctrines of false apostles and prophets during my brief stay in da way..

now it's tenets of spiritualism.. I swerve towards a belief in reincarnation.

I remember at least three past lives..

it's going to take a less than absent Christ to save me..

Sin Consciousness? I live and regret every last piece of s*it that I am.

Hell would be what.. a chance to live through the same conditions again..

but maybe that is not so bad.

[Ham]

Not so bad. There are alternatives..

like the guy who "witnessed" da greatness of the *word* to me..

he could fornicate like.. I really can't describe it..

a few pointed questions.. and what do i get.

Don't YOU DARE TOUCH *MY* Righteousness..

hiss.

kinda looked like Linda Blair in the appropriate scene..

[Ham]

Sexy Sadie, what have you done..

Just a smile, would lighten everything..

sorry, I really shouldn't listen to this stuff..

[Ham]

It's been a long, long, long, time..

[Ham]

How can it be like the poet says "all is not lost"?? What the hell are you talking about??

well..

maybe it is, maybe it isn't..

[Ham]

even it were twenty years ago.. one should listen to the White Album on the downside of an LSD trip..

It kind of sticks with you..

[JavaJane]

I think sin consciousness and licentiousness can both be taken to extremes. And, imho, the Way and the Catholic Church are good examples.

We all know about VP's licentiousness and the extremes to which he went to break down people's resistance to his immoral behavior. He justified that by preaching about the dangers of sin consciousness.

On the other hand, there are many who have rebelled, not only against Catholicism, but against Christianity as a whole because of the extremes of sin and condemnation Catholicism presents. George Carlin comes to mind. In his 'sortabiography' he says that the idea that a loving God would condemn a person to an eternity in hell because they missed mass (or committed some other mortal sin) was something he couldn't get around.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this still a Catholic doctrine?

It is, and I believe it is a stupid one, like their views on contraception and a few other things. While I am "converting" I am not buying everything hook line and sinker. I don't feel that I have to do that anymore in anything. No religion I find will be perfect, but I like the depth of theology and the symbolism in the Catholic church, and I like the community and their activity in it. I don't agree with every doctrine, and if the priest knew about all my "weird" beliefs I don't know if I would be allowed to convert.

I think the whole "you are a sinner" thing hit me so much because I never understood SIN before. My experience with understanding what sin was was all from my experience in twi... and that was total bu!!$hi+. So, in contrast, maybe the Catholic church is a good place to learn something about this subject given my background.

I do not believe the Catholic church is 100% right on every doctrine. Not at all. I don't mean to be trying to convince anyone else of that in these discussions. It is just that in my experience, so many things are in sharp sharp contrast to what I was involved in in twi.

[Ham]

and if the priest knew about all my "weird" beliefs I don't know if I would be allowed to convert.

what do you want to bet.. if this priest is worth half his salt..

maybe it depends on whether this priest really is a priest..

some of them have learned to wear their skin well..

others, well..

maybe they are just neophytes..

[JavaJane]

I don't particularly care for the two priests in the parish... The young one is a neophyte... But he was sble to ecplain the sumbolism of a weird cross dream/vision i had. But I love the deacon. He's awesome.

And Ham... One of my weird beliefs leans towards reincarnation and this earth being our purgatory.

[Ham]

Now if I could add another strange belief..

if this were purgatory, or hell. Why would one wager everything one had to wager to participate?

heaven is too easy..