A class-based "window of opportunity"

[WordWolf]

vpw and twi'ers in general spend too much time crowing about what they know (knew)

and not enough time admitting they need to learn more.

(Independent of needing to "know" some things by DOING.)

One example is the teachings on David's "battle" with Goliath.

The classic sling, in the hands of a trained user, is a deadly weapon-

one more dangerous at close ranges than the bow and arrows.

It can do more damage and subsequent shots can be launched faster.

it's a cheaper weapon and more easily portable.

(It lacks the longer ranges, and cannot be used from concealment,

which bows and crossbows can.)

Shepherds used the sling both to get the attention of a sheep (fling a stone

in front of one to get his attention) and to avoid boredom (like any kid with

an airgun and a tin can.) David's best chance lay with any deadly weapon he

actually had experience with. However, I wouldn't have given much for the

odds for any fighter using sling OR bow against a fully armored, helmed and

shielded warrior preparing to close the distance and impale him on a spear.

Frankly, I wouldn't give much for the chances of hitting the man in the head

where the helmet was not covering, while he was moving and while he had a

shield. It was akin to shooting a coin thrown into the air.

Carry on, everyone.

I did hear that CFFM was doing a lot to try and heal old wounds. I used to listen to their sermons, can’t hack it any more. Since then I’ve heard less favorable things about CFFM.

I also think there are a lot of WC out there who are still genuinely trying to help other people. Small fellowships in their homes. Are they splinters, or “just” real fellowships?

When is a splinter a splinter? Only when it causes hurt? When it expands beyond a home fellowship? When it gets a hierachy?

Maybe we need to define the term a little more.

Offshoots of twi tend to retain all the toxic, harmful and dysfunctional behavior-

except for specific points they address, then announce they cleaned up "EVERYTHING."

So, the differences between the offshoots (splinters off the tree no matter who

has run them) is the type of injury and the specific harmful teachings or behavior

in use. If you want to avoid the SAME injuries people got in twi, avoid ALL the

twi-trained "leaders."

As someone posted once, if you want to give up gambling, you don't switch from

poker to slot machines- you get out of the casino.

I've seen plenty of splinters/offshoots brag about how excellent they are, and

seen commercials from people who say THEIRS is the best and not harmful. And

they all have been MORE harmful than a lot of local churches wherever I go.

[socks]

Twinkster -

I think of a splinter, an actual "offshoot" as a post-Way group that

1. publicly credits VPW and the Way Nash as the start in their history

2. continues teaching the same basic doctrine without any significant changes (although all of them I know of have changed a LOT of their doctrinal platform for better or worse but say they're continuing on in the same heart just like the Ol' Man would have wanted, or some such bull s--t )

3. networks home fellowships together

4. Accepts money to support that effort

I don't think I can practically or honestly define every one who does anything similar to what the Way did

as an "offshoot" of it - although I suppose to some people, from a genealogical sort of view, everyone who was ever "in" the Way

is in some form an offshoot of it, moving forward.

I really don't care enough either way - 'nother 25-30 years it won't matter for a lot of us anyway -

but in general as I read stuff here on GS, that's how I think of it.

[skyrider]

1. publicly credits VPW and the Way Nash as the start in their history

Many of these offshoot leaders, Vince included......HIDE their roots to twi. In books, websites,

or newsletters they utilize vague "theological studies" references and such.

Perhaps, in-house.....they might credit VPW.

And, just like wierwille's 1st edition of RHST where, in the preface, he states that he searched

for 7 years before he found a man who could teach him the great truths of the holy spirit field....

then, later editions delete this information. By the time the 7th edition surfaces, Almighty God

taught wierwille in daily face-to-face sessions in the way woods.

[WordWolf]

Many of these offshoot leaders, Vince included......HIDE their roots to twi. In books, websites,

or newsletters they utilize vague "theological studies" references and such.

Perhaps, in-house.....they might credit VPW.

And, just like wierwille's 1st edition of RHST where, in the preface, he states that he searched

for 7 years before he found a man who could teach him the great truths of the holy spirit field....

then, later editions delete this information. By the time the 7th edition surfaces, Almighty God

taught wierwille in daily face-to-face sessions in the way woods.

THIRD edition.

The 1st edition mentioned a man (Stiles) but didn't name him. By the THIRD edition, he wasn't

mentioned.

==============

When it comes to offshoots, the more "official" versions don't mention vpw anywhere except

off-the-record, and otherwise are very vague on sources like vpw. The less "official" ones

often deify vpw and make him sound like when he died, he ascended to the right hand of God.

[waysider]

The Way Tree.....page 1.

Each twig is self-supporting, self-propagating,,and self-governing in cooperation with its respective Branch as each Branch is to its respective Limb, as each Limb is to its respective Trunk, as each Trunk is to the Root of The Way.

If you consider what this is saying, it may occur to you that this actually says the opposite of what many of us thought it said. This is saying that autonomy does NOT exist at the Twig level or any of the other defined levels. Rather, it sets in place a defined hierarchy of power and authority. I don't believe that sort of hierarchy is Biblical in origin. If it is, I'd like to see some scriptural examples. It reminds me of those voting issues you encounter on election day where voting "yes" really means "no".

Edited January 6, 2012 by waysider

[socks]

Well, it's marketing 101 sky.

Look at Lynn - from time to time he does a public declaration to old Wayfers and promotes whatever thing he's doing at that time. He's a professional salesman. True sales people sell what ever's in their giddyup that week and whatever it is it's GREAT and you're urged to get some now. And that's what he does.

He uses these opp's to remind old Wayfers that he's sure that the Ol' Man would be just as proud as punch at what he's doing because it's as good as the old and even mo' better. You just have to try it for yourself, come see and see if you don't like it. You be the judge. You just come and see. Soon. And bring friends with money cause the work needs funding.

Now..................anyone who knew the Ol' Man himself and what he thought knows that he would not, in any way, tolerate deviations from his basic PFAL content. Never did, never intended to. Couldn't do it better, it was all there baby, just work it. Work that thing but don't change it.

So - Lynn knows that. He knows that's how VPW felt. Yet he has openly lied to everyone including himself saying the exact opposite. Momentus, Personal Prophecy, deviating from the exact curriculum of PFAL right and left. VPW would sooner stick a hot poker up Lynn's butt than sign off on what he's been doing and never would have tolerated it under his regime.

Which doesn't make either one better or worse - I'm just saying if you wanted to play in VPW's game, you had to play by his rules and his rules didn't allow for change in the doctrine. Period. It's incredibly funny that Lynn suggests anything else and is so transparent....well, it's just sad really.

Now I haven't spoke to Vince F in what - over 20 years or so. But if he's changed his doctrinal platform he would also know that he's broken that link to VPW and PFAL. Where all the rest of these splints are - to be honest I can't say. I don't move in those worlds. I should probably not offer much more opinion than that if I'm to be honest.

[waysider]

Page 4 is titled Structure Of The Early Church

Like a tree-divided up geographically-logical, convenient.

Cutting to the chase....it then proceeds to try to prove that a defined hierarchy of limbs, branches, twigs, etc. existed in the early church. Careful reading of the ensuing examples demonstrates that these pockets were, more or less, autonomous but intertwined, with some being much more active than others. It hardly proves that anything resembling The Way Tree was in operation.

Edited January 6, 2012 by waysider

[waysider]

Page 5

"By the end of Acts, the First Century Church had spread throughout a vast area reaching into most of the then known , civilized world. By this time, the revelation of Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians had been given. Operating within a set-up of Root, Trunks, Limbs, Branches and Twigs, the early church flourished."

This is, at best, a "weak analogy".

[skyrider]

Page 5

"By the end of Acts, the First Century Church had spread throughout a vast area reaching into most of the then known , civilized world. By this time, the revelation of Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians had been given. Operating within a set-up of Root, Trunks, Limbs, Branches and Twigs, the early church flourished."

This is, at best, a "weak analogy".

From a marketing strategy....I understand why wierwille utilized the "way tree" setup.

Yet, he holds up the Bible as THE SOURCE OF TRUTH.....and then, circumvents his "nothing but the Word" bravado

by inserting twigs, branches, limbs, trunks, and elephants. Seems like the elephants are there to eat the twigs.

Seriously though, if wierwille were to stand on biblical truths....he would have held to the ONE BODY truths and

Christ is the Head. That truth, that analogy is straight from the scriptures and teaches complement truths to the

'christ-in-you' the hope of glory. The individual is unique and special......NOT the twig. The individual has a

direct impact in the One Body.....NOT the twig. The individual was formed, made, and created with a specific purpose

.....NOT the twig. The individual is irreplaceable and valued......NOT like a twig that replenishes next year.

1Cor 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

Isn't the human body known to be one of the greatest marvels of His creation? And to think that, in spiritual

superlatives, God has set a new ONE BODY, the mystery of the ages, in motion with Christ as the Head. The human

mind can hardly grasp the magnificent truths and the scripture build-up to assimilate His creation.

Really?.......a "way tree" class to prepare one for an advanced class?

Why not?......THE ONE BODY class to prepare students for an advanced class?

In my opinion, one of the great deceptions of twi was at this juncture. Whether wierwille deceitfully led us into

these corrals (twigs) to herd us into groups as opposed to teaching and uplifting individuals to turn to Christ, our

Lord, our Mediator, our Head.....we may never know. But the end result, we DO KNOW.....and it failed miserably. It

only took about 12 years, after way-tree terminology took hold, for twi to wither (backwards).

[Twinky]

Hey, he could have produced a "one body" analogy. Instead of limbs, branches, twigs - could've had arms, legs, hands, fingers, fingernails. We used to joke about that in my first twig - were individuals fingernails on the body of Christ?

But better than the external physical body - what about the individual internal cells, like red blood cells, white blood cells, and other blood components - that circulate around the whole human body? Get to every part and perform their specific functions.

How much better an analogy that would be - using the internal aspects of a human body. Each directed by the mind of Christ (not the mind of VPW).

[skyrider]

Each directed by the mind of Christ (not the mind of VPW).

The wierwille doctrine........"the word takes the place of the ABSENT christ."

In a late-night corps setting, wierwille lamented that his corps were not seeing the power of God.

Also, in this rare glimpse of honesty and openness.....he further stated that many corps had actually

digressed from their wow ambassador days.

BUT.....he wasn't able to connect the dots and see that his teachings were shackling and stifling

those who were to be free in Christ and demonstrating God's power. Oppressive, authoritarian rule was

the order of the day.....and wierwille was twi's general. He never did figure it out.....and later died

wondering why "his believing" didn't bring him healing.

[geisha779]

Sorry, got a bit off topic there.

It comes from current dealings with a client who hoards and hoards, and is terrified to throw anything away – old newspapers, birthday, Christmas and visiting cards from 15 years ago, looks like every letter anyone ever wrote to her, clothes in a trunk she hasn't opened in 10 years, at least 50 pairs of shoes, food way past its use-by date.

I asked if I could give some of the surplus clothing and food to a homeless charity.

No, she would rather hoard to herself.

She purports to be a Christian and has sought and received loads of Christian counseling and has all these Christian books about living, giving, mending relationships, be a friend, overcoming worry and fear, etc.

But she doesn't DO any of the stuff in her books.

So she doesn't get the fullest experience of God's love in her life.

And she doesn't get the healing she clearly so desperately seeks.

And she wonders why she still has problems.

Be DOERS of the Word, not just HEARERS.

ALLOW yourself to experience God at work in your life.

I have worked as an organizer for more than one hoarder......they are the bread and butter of the business. They are great because you always have work, but frustrating because you never get anything accomplished, or if you do get a room done, the next month it is in worse shape. I finally educated myself a bit about hoarding and the approach to take with someone who has compulsive behavior. Hoarding is a mental disorder and it can really affect the people who have to be around a hoarder.

You just have to prepare yourself to do the same thing over and over.....or be prepared to stand around all day while they try to gather their thoughts. I worked for a lady who had 22 vacuum cleaners and wood floors with no rugs......go figure. When I pointed this out and suggested we try and pare down the vacuums (many were broken) she had a full blown melt down.

A tip, and it is something I did, probably not something you would be tempted to do......but, when they left I would throw trash away and then hide the trash in the bins. Baaaaad, bad, bad, bad idea. They know every single piece of lint and broken plastic they own and will swear it is the most important piece they have. They know what it once went to......how it is useful.....and claim they will need it one day. It doesn't matter that it has been under the couch for the past 16 years.

Just be thankful there is no dump they can go to....we would finally get a small load together for the dump and without fail, they would come back from the dump with more than they left with. I am not joking. We finally had to hire a skip. That also was pointless.... it went in one day and was back in the house the next.

It is horribly frustrating to try and help a hoarder get organized.......but it really is a compulsive disease and for a neat freak like me it is one that is difficult to understand. It seems selfish, but it has a whole other pathology.

I still get offers of work from hoarders but I can't do it anymore. Great money....I bought my kid a used car from one week of work......but it takes too great a toll on me. I end up really disliking my clients and dreading having to be around them. I retired from the biz. :)

[Twinky]

I'll write to you separately, Geisha.

Like Nike ...JUST DO IT.

Be a doer of the Word - or biff it. Chuck your Bible in the bin, if you can't be bothered to even try it. That'd be honest.

Let's face it - these "class-based ministries" have biffed ... the personal relationships with individuals, the personal relationship with God, constrained the power of God into rule-bound actions... may as well biff the book.