WordWolf........regarding splinter groups serving a valuable purpose as "airlocks"......
I used to think that as well.........but not anymore. My brother-in-law is on splinter group payroll [over 20 years]........and STILL holds to wierwille adulation and doctrine. How many of these guys are sucking the oxygen of the wierwille cult to keep the schlubs tossing their money into a cult-lite hole? 20 YEARS???!!!
And then...............how many "followers" stay stuck in a splinter group in a deceived snare?
Maybe, it's just me.......but when I exited twi, I did NOT need "airlocks" or "counsel" to depressurize........I just needed to ESCAPE AND BREATHE FRESH AIR.
Skyrider,
I think what you've said may apply to a lot of seasoned corps - who had reached a tipping point over their years of the laborious daily grind of the way international's operations...and had probably identified a number of issues long before Chris G's PooP hit the fan.
I've often said that the splinter groups have served a valuable purpose as "airlocks." Just as a person returning from deep underwater needs to spend some time in differing pressure environments before reaching the surface (their body needs to adjust to different pressure environments), people leaving twi need time to spend in differing pressure environments before fully escaping (their mind needs to adjust to different pressure environments.)
So, part of it is being enough like the imagined "good old days" of twi, while a person looks around and sees that the rest of the world and the rest of Christianity really is no worse than twi and is usually better. Once that's sunk in, then the splinter needs to turn up the heat and do something stupid so the person gets sick and tired of being sick and tired, and jumps ship completely from twi and ex-twi. Then they can go do something else- alone, with other Christians, with non-Christians. etc.
So, as we see, the pinhead who tried to bully Twinky while having a meltdown served a vital function- he drove off "his congregation" and they went out into the world just as Twinky did, and for much the same reasons. He didn't MEAN it that way, but it worked out that way. (He meant it to her for evil...)
IMO the splinter groups serve a valuable purpose as splinters of a shipwreck, from which their nickname comes.
Like I said, I know a family Corpse who left in the '80's, and has done basically a Wierwille adulation home family fellowship for 20 years. Actually there's another guy like that on the site here that rob - pilot guy, right? Worshiped Wierwille and studied collaterals for 20 years then has been posting here.
And we are talking middle of the road types of groups here.
When you get down to the worse "splinters" we are talking Victor Barnard and River Road Fellowship. Dateline stuff.
So sure if someone wants to float around in the ocean attached to a piece of wood for 20 years, then you could call that an "airlock". But my advice, don't paddle past 3 islands and 2 rescue ships in the process of clinging to that piece of driftwood.
IMO the splinter groups serve a valuable purpose as splinters of a shipwreck, from which their nickname comes.
Like I said, I know a family Corpse who left in the '80's, and has done basically a Wierwille adulation home family fellowship for 20 years. Actually there's another guy like that on the site here that rob - pilot guy, right? Worshiped Wierwille and studied collaterals for 20 years then has been posting here.
And we are talking middle of the road types of groups here.
When you get down to the worse "splinters" we are talking Victor Barnard and River Road Fellowship. Dateline stuff.
So sure if someone wants to float around in the ocean attached to a piece of wood for 20 years, then you could call that an "airlock". But my advice, don't paddle past 3 islands and 2 rescue ships in the process of clinging to that piece of driftwood.
IMO the splinter groups serve a valuable purpose as splinters of a shipwreck, from which their nickname comes.
Like I said, I know a family Corpse who left in the '80's, and has done basically a Wierwille adulation home family fellowship for 20 years. Actually there's another guy like that on the site here that rob - pilot guy, right? Worshiped Wierwille and studied collaterals for 20 years then has been posting here.
And we are talking middle of the road types of groups here.
When you get down to the worse "splinters" we are talking Victor Barnard and River Road Fellowship. Dateline stuff.
So sure if someone wants to float around in the ocean attached to a piece of wood for 20 years, then you could call that an "airlock". But my advice, don't paddle past 3 islands and 2 rescue ships in the process of clinging to that piece of driftwood.
Yeah.......depending on the splinter group "LEADERSHIP", the splinter can have all the markings of mother-cult, or worse!
Once on payroll.....with perks, power over others, dominance, adulation, and a subset world of their choosing......the splinter group leaders do NOT want to relinquish their positions of power. Who has seen any splinter group leaders who were altruistic? John Lynn? Gerald Wrenn? Dale Sides? John Schoenheit?
And now, in May 2017.......along comes this "Revival and Restoration" group. I seriously doubt that these folk will garner much of a following......as they squabble over who goes on payroll, guidelines and path forward. The cult's DNA will poison this little subset group as well. The internet and social media is debunking the splinter group methodology to Christian service.
I'm not going to pretend the continuance of the splinters over decades is a good thing. However, nearly everyone I ever met who was in twi as a regular has moved on- and they jumped from twi to a splinter group, then drifted off entirely from the splinter group sooner or later. So, to pull numbers out of the air with no claim to accuracy, if 3% of twi is still in twi, and another 7% is running or attending splinter groups, and 80% joined splinter groups then left, then the splinter groups were good for the 80% even if they're bad for the 7% remaining. (Not counting the other 10% who just walked off by themselves without stopping in a splinter group.)
In attendance, twi and the splinters are running a zero-sum game. Neither is bringing in attendees as a net gain- splinters bring in ex-twi one way or another. With neither twi nor the splinters bringing in enough people to replace the ones that leave voluntarily or die of old age (a few people joining means the numbers still trickle downwards), the problem of both is self-correcting in the long run. Each "one true household" will dwindle down to one household, and eventually one elderly person pontificating by himself/herself to a circle of empty chairs.
In the meantime, yes, that's not good news to the aging folk who choose to remain in their splinters, but they're adults and can make their own choices. It's not like they haven't been warned. How hard is it to find us and other opposing viewpoints if one is trying?
I'm not going to pretend the continuance of the splinters over decades is a good thing. However, nearly everyone I ever met who was in twi as a regular has moved on- and they jumped from twi to a splinter group, then drifted off entirely from the splinter group sooner or later. So, to pull numbers out of the air with no claim to accuracy, if 3% of twi is still in twi, and another 7% is running or attending splinter groups, and 80% joined splinter groups then left, then the splinter groups were good for the 80% even if they're bad for the 7% remaining. (Not counting the other 10% who just walked off by themselves without stopping in a splinter group.)
In attendance, twi and the splinters are running a zero-sum game. Neither is bringing in attendees as a net gain- splinters bring in ex-twi one way or another. With neither twi nor the splinters bringing in enough people to replace the ones that leave voluntarily or die of old age (a few people joining means the numbers still trickle downwards), the problem of both is self-correcting in the long run. Each "one true household" will dwindle down to one household, and eventually one elderly person pontificating by himself/herself to a circle of empty chairs.
In the meantime, yes, that's not good news to the aging folk who choose to remain in their splinters, but they're adults and can make their own choices. It's not like they haven't been warned. How hard is it to find us and other opposing viewpoints if one is trying?
How hard is it to find GSC and other opposing viewpoints if John Lynn [or fill in the blank of splinter group leader] is still SINGING WIERWILLE'S PRAISES and DECEIVING others with weekly teachings? Or, pressuring people to sign up for Momentus and its gut-spilling public confessions? Maybe, hobnob with CFF and the wierwille kids.....and then, venture out to Mississippi and get drawn into S.O.W.E.R.S. and learn from the likes of a Walter Cummins?
My point..........these hirelings and deceivers make it harder to exit from the wierwille-cult indoctrination.
In my opinion..........Paul Allen blazed a trail with Waydale and then, GreaseSpot Café took the baton and broke the stranglehold, not Shroyer, Clapp, Finnegan, Panarello, etc. etc. Many of us have had our share of disagreements with several who've come to this site STILL siding with "the good ole days" when wierwille walked the earth. Just when you'd think that these splinters have run their course........ANOTHER ONE pops up. Why? What gives?
And further, every splinter seemingly wants to hitch its wagon to the wierwille legacy......whatever that is. Then, two of the wierwille namesake, J.P. and Sara, join forces with the CFF-outfit.......Kevin quits his job as an architect rallying to wife's [Sara] ambitions at CFF and J.P. helps spearhead the S.O.W.E.R.S. operation as his son, victor paul, becomes the face of way corps training II. OMG.........could the cult splinter groups devise a more incestuous relationship to deceive others???
Money. Vanity. Deception. Lording over others.
What are the reasons for all of these splinter groups?
Sure........they ALL want to help others. Pppffffttttt.
Even that Corps Website......you couldn't badmouth wierwille or corps training.
When Paul Allen got bumrushed off twi's grounds.........he did something TOTALLY DIFFERENT than all other "helpful splinter groups." Paul set up Waydale to strategically and systematically attack The Way International doctrine AND craig martindale. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
The internet and social media is debunking the splinter group methodology to Christian service.
Enuff said.
Totally agreed. If someone wants to genuinely continue Christian service, the path is clear to integrate with the rest of the body of Christ we isolated off from years ago by doctrine and practice. Get off the "genuine household" high horse, along with its titles, prestige, income flow, and continued lies. Humble yourself to the true meaning of Christianity, a message of a savior and the analogy of his body in Corinthians and believe and practice accordingly.
If the path of Christianity is not in your chosen future, then take the lessons of the group and let them direct you towards a more virtuous future. Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, as an analogy and phrase of wisdom if not "divine revelation" to you.
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Twinky
Here's a hilarious story. Years after I got (very nastily) kicked out of TWI I started attending a twig-type thing, a splinter, in the town where I now live. (I was very damaged; I needed the "c
WordWolf
I'm not going to pretend the continuance of the splinters over decades is a good thing. However, nearly everyone I ever met who was in twi as a regular has moved on- and they jumped from twi to a spli
WordWolf
I've often said that the splinter groups have served a valuable purpose as "airlocks." Just as a person returning from deep underwater needs to spend some time in differing pressure environments befor
T-Bone
Skyrider,
I think what you've said may apply to a lot of seasoned corps - who had reached a tipping point over their years of the laborious daily grind of the way international's operations...and had probably identified a number of issues long before Chris G's PooP hit the fan.
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chockfull
IMO the splinter groups serve a valuable purpose as splinters of a shipwreck, from which their nickname comes.
Like I said, I know a family Corpse who left in the '80's, and has done basically a Wierwille adulation home family fellowship for 20 years. Actually there's another guy like that on the site here that rob - pilot guy, right? Worshiped Wierwille and studied collaterals for 20 years then has been posting here.
And we are talking middle of the road types of groups here.
When you get down to the worse "splinters" we are talking Victor Barnard and River Road Fellowship. Dateline stuff.
So sure if someone wants to float around in the ocean attached to a piece of wood for 20 years, then you could call that an "airlock". But my advice, don't paddle past 3 islands and 2 rescue ships in the process of clinging to that piece of driftwood.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Chock,
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skyrider
Yeah.......depending on the splinter group "LEADERSHIP", the splinter can have all the markings of mother-cult, or worse!
Once on payroll.....with perks, power over others, dominance, adulation, and a subset world of their choosing......the splinter group leaders do NOT want to relinquish their positions of power. Who has seen any splinter group leaders who were altruistic? John Lynn? Gerald Wrenn? Dale Sides? John Schoenheit?
And now, in May 2017.......along comes this "Revival and Restoration" group. I seriously doubt that these folk will garner much of a following......as they squabble over who goes on payroll, guidelines and path forward. The cult's DNA will poison this little subset group as well. The internet and social media is debunking the splinter group methodology to Christian service.
Enuff said.
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WordWolf
I'm not going to pretend the continuance of the splinters over decades is a good thing. However, nearly everyone I ever met who was in twi as a regular has moved on- and they jumped from twi to a splinter group, then drifted off entirely from the splinter group sooner or later. So, to pull numbers out of the air with no claim to accuracy, if 3% of twi is still in twi, and another 7% is running or attending splinter groups, and 80% joined splinter groups then left, then the splinter groups were good for the 80% even if they're bad for the 7% remaining. (Not counting the other 10% who just walked off by themselves without stopping in a splinter group.)
In attendance, twi and the splinters are running a zero-sum game. Neither is bringing in attendees as a net gain- splinters bring in ex-twi one way or another. With neither twi nor the splinters bringing in enough people to replace the ones that leave voluntarily or die of old age (a few people joining means the numbers still trickle downwards), the problem of both is self-correcting in the long run. Each "one true household" will dwindle down to one household, and eventually one elderly person pontificating by himself/herself to a circle of empty chairs.
In the meantime, yes, that's not good news to the aging folk who choose to remain in their splinters, but they're adults and can make their own choices. It's not like they haven't been warned. How hard is it to find us and other opposing viewpoints if one is trying?
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skyrider
How hard is it to find GSC and other opposing viewpoints if John Lynn [or fill in the blank of splinter group leader] is still SINGING WIERWILLE'S PRAISES and DECEIVING others with weekly teachings? Or, pressuring people to sign up for Momentus and its gut-spilling public confessions? Maybe, hobnob with CFF and the wierwille kids.....and then, venture out to Mississippi and get drawn into S.O.W.E.R.S. and learn from the likes of a Walter Cummins?
My point..........these hirelings and deceivers make it harder to exit from the wierwille-cult indoctrination.
In my opinion..........Paul Allen blazed a trail with Waydale and then, GreaseSpot Café took the baton and broke the stranglehold, not Shroyer, Clapp, Finnegan, Panarello, etc. etc. Many of us have had our share of disagreements with several who've come to this site STILL siding with "the good ole days" when wierwille walked the earth. Just when you'd think that these splinters have run their course........ANOTHER ONE pops up. Why? What gives?
And further, every splinter seemingly wants to hitch its wagon to the wierwille legacy......whatever that is. Then, two of the wierwille namesake, J.P. and Sara, join forces with the CFF-outfit.......Kevin quits his job as an architect rallying to wife's [Sara] ambitions at CFF and J.P. helps spearhead the S.O.W.E.R.S. operation as his son, victor paul, becomes the face of way corps training II. OMG.........could the cult splinter groups devise a more incestuous relationship to deceive others???
Money. Vanity. Deception. Lording over others.
When Paul Allen got bumrushed off twi's grounds.........he did something TOTALLY DIFFERENT than all other "helpful splinter groups." Paul set up Waydale to strategically and systematically attack The Way International doctrine AND craig martindale. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
so Paul Allen, Charlene, Karl and others are TWI's answer to Leah Remi and Mike Linder(no relationship to WayGB internet looper Linder)
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chockfull
Totally agreed. If someone wants to genuinely continue Christian service, the path is clear to integrate with the rest of the body of Christ we isolated off from years ago by doctrine and practice. Get off the "genuine household" high horse, along with its titles, prestige, income flow, and continued lies. Humble yourself to the true meaning of Christianity, a message of a savior and the analogy of his body in Corinthians and believe and practice accordingly.
If the path of Christianity is not in your chosen future, then take the lessons of the group and let them direct you towards a more virtuous future. Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, as an analogy and phrase of wisdom if not "divine revelation" to you.
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