FWIW, I dont't think Johniam's deflections are intentional. In my presumptuous opinion, he is simply deeply, emotionally dependent on the illusion that he KNOWS the truth. I have ex-way friends of the same mindset.
It's too diffiCULT for them to let go of the feeling of certainty, and spiritual superiotity that VP peddled.
Are you meaning to imply that Wierwille had an alternate choice to drugging and raping young women? If so, then why should we blame the devil and not Wierwille?
Love,
Steve
Wierwille chose to lie and deceive.
Wierwille chose to plagairize and steal others' research.
Wierwille chose to walk in darkness rather than the light.
Wierwille chose to push boundaries and target the vulnerable.
Wierwille chose to puff himself up with pride and cigarettes.
Wierwille chose to be drunken in drambuie and dimwittedness.
Wierwille chose to seduce in doctrine and in practice.
Wierwille chose to be a sexual predator and destroy lives.
Wierwille chose the devil's playground......day after day.
Wierwille never could conceive that the internet would EXPOSE him....as he spent decades covering his tracks. The man really wasn't as smart as he thought.
It would be interesting to know if sexual predation among TWI followers is more common or less common than the national average. My hunch is that it would be more common because, as you know, they live under unassailable grace and they are God's best and their sheeeaat doesn't stink. Until someone at the top of the TWI pyramid tells them differently, of course.
Sexual predators and cover-ups are making news again. The Penn State scandal involving Jerry Sandusky, a defensive football coach under Joe Paterno, and young boys has rocked the college football world.
A whistleblower broke the story....... And last night, the Board of Trustees fired Graham Spanier, president of Penn State, and Joe Paterno, the legendary coach of the Nittany Lions.
YET.......The Way International has black-listed and denied any "whistle-blower" who came forward regarding sexual predators like Victor Paul Wierwille and L. Craig Martindale and others. Books have been written....detailing the sexual predatory ways and destruction of lives. Waydale and Greasespot, specifically, in the past 10 years has outed twi's ways of darkness.
Is it MORE evil to be a sexual predator of young boys?
Or, is it MORE evil to be a sexual predator of young girls.....who commit their lives to God and enter a secluded, religious-campus setting?
Or.....is a sexual predator a sexual predator, PERIOD???!!!
Way, IMHO, a sexual predator is a sexual predator. Â All of them are POS.
I've long had zero patience, zero concern, zero toleration for child molesters. There was a time when such cases never made it to court, having been handled in silence by the men in the victim's family long before. Lawyers and judges have a hard time trying a corpse.
In the Penn State case, it would seem there were no real men to be found. The thing I will never be able to blot from my mind is that young boy in the shower being raped by Coach Sandusky, and then another man walks into the shower area and sees the rape in progress. Both the boy and the coach saw the man, and both knew he had seen what was happening. But the man did nothing to stop it, he just turned and walked out. I will never understand that man. But the thing that will remain forever with me is what that little boy must have thought. For a moment that boy must have thought his savior had arrived. But no. His savior abandoned him, leaving him in the clutches of a monster. That little boy's heartbreak at that moment must have been even more painful than the rape.
OB, you are so right. Â A man sees a little boy being raped, and does nothing about it??!! Â WTF!!! Â Why didn't the guy at least phone 911?? Â I hope the rapist, and the guy who witnessed the rape, and did nothing about it, rot in hell.
And, now, one of Wierwille's most active (If not the MOST active) collaborators in the whole sex scandal fiasco is facing his own health crisis. So, we are asked to feel sympathy for him. Call me cold, but, I don't think so.
Way, personally I don't give a S--t about GC at all. But, I wonder if the women that VPW, and other leaders, raped will ever move forward with their lives. Â I feel for these women. Â How in the name of God, can Chris G, and Howard A sleep at night, knowing how many women were abused?? Â They knew what was going on, and did nothing to stop it??!! Â In my view, these guys are as guilty as VPW. Â Some day there will be a reckoning for all of us; God will deal with them in his own way.
We've heard many tales of others in addition to the ones Tom enumerated above. Just about any branch in this country had at least one sleaze in it. And, of course there are many equally sleazy individuals outside of the minustry! No one wants to let them go unpunished but there are only so many hours in a day. We have so many more worthwhile things to do than chase after them. Most of us I guess have decided to let it go and let God handle it when He meters out His justice and I believe that's what God wants us to do now.
Well I would suspect somewhere in the great wide internet there are people who are saying the Catholic Church should be shut down. But this particular website isn't centered around the Catholic church, its centered around TWI.
Yes, VP is dead, but his legacy lives on in the doctrine he taught. He was not the only sexual predator in TWI. There were many of them, more than you will hear about here. The doctrine itself was rotten when it comes to this issue.
Â
Â
Oh yes!!! For sure! I also was proposed sex by two way corps but not in the US so there was really a sex mind at that time! Both were corps and country coordinators.Â
Â
One manipulated me by asking me to open my bathroom door to show him my naked body. I said no. He said something like I was prude but what he said was to make me feel bad. I didn't budge. The other one proposed me to sleep at his house since I needed to go to Paris so of course, I said yes. Naive I was. We slept in the same bed since there was no space (Paris has very small apartments) and he wanted to have sex with me... Of course I said no. But I know he had sex with a girl I witnessed to but she was a nymphomaniac since she also slept with my husband who himself had a blow job from a WOW man.... What sick men...Â
On 7/25/2017 at 12:47 AM, Grace Valerie Claire said:
Way, personally I don't give a S--t about GC at all. But, I wonder if the women that VPW, and other leaders, raped will ever move forward with their lives. Â I feel for these women. Â How in the name of God, can Chris G, and Howard A sleep at night, knowing how many women were abused?? Â They knew what was going on, and did nothing to stop it??!! Â In my view, these guys are as guilty as VPW. Â Some day there will be a reckoning for all of us; God will deal with them in his own way.
Old story. A man is asked what a conscience is. He points to his chest. "It is a 3-cornered thing in here. When I do wrong, it spins and the corners hurt me. But if I keep doing wrong, the points wear off, and it doesn't hurt anymore."
Oh yes!!! For sure! I also was proposed sex by two way corps but not in the US so there was really a sex mind at that time! Both were corps and country coordinators.Â
Â
One manipulated me by asking me to open my bathroom door to show him my naked body. I said no. He said something like I was prude but what he said was to make me feel bad. I didn't budge. The other one proposed me to sleep at his house since I needed to go to Paris so of course, I said yes. Naive I was. We slept in the same bed since there was no space (Paris has very small apartments) and he wanted to have sex with me... Of course I said no. But I know he had sex with a girl I witnessed to but she was a nymphomaniac since she also slept with my husband who himself had a blow job from a WOW man.... What sick men...Â
twi has been a haven for sex maniacs for some time.
twi has been a haven for sex maniacs for some time.
It's worth noting again that this is not unique to twi. The social mores of the organization allowed it. The self-justifying interpretations of several aspects of scripture dictated it.
Since I wasn't living in the US, never heard of that
That was barely the tip of the iceberg. The Way Tree structure of the organization, where everyone was supposed to cater to the "needs" of the "Man of God" was central to it.
That was barely the tip of the iceberg. The Way Tree structure of the organization, where everyone was supposed to cater to the "needs" of the "Man of God" was central to it.
Oh I believe you! Just saying I'm discovering things...
I agree.....wierwille knew he was deceiving himself.
Pour another drambuie and avoid the subject.....and only in the most private settings attempt to seduce with "spiritually mature can handle it" jargon.
The man DISQUALIFIED himself from teaching or leading anyone. The Timothy and Titus scriptures couldn't be any more plain, PERIOD.
I am wondering how God is going to deal with him because so many got born again and yet, he was a big deceiver
Old story. A man is asked what a conscience is. He points to his chest. "It is a 3-cornered thing in here. When I do wrong, it spins and the corners hurt me. But if I keep doing wrong, the points wear off, and it doesn't hurt anymore."
WW, to you it might be an old story, but for those of us who are sexual abuse survivors, it is an ongoing story. I will never get over what was done to me as a child; many of us won't. I feel for anyone who has to deal with sexual abuse; it isn't something that most of us will ever resolve in our lifetimes.
Old story. A man is asked what a conscience is. He points to his chest. "It is a 3-cornered thing in here. When I do wrong, it spins and the corners hurt me. But if I keep doing wrong, the points wear off, and it doesn't hurt anymore."
That's why I said above : I wonder how God is going to deal with him because so many got born again and yet, he was a big deceiver. Also the other ones who never said anything.
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WordWolf
vpw criticized hypocrites who cherry-picked the verses they wanted and skipped the verses they didn't like. Then, of course, vpw WAS a hypocrite who cherry-picked the verses he wanted and glossed o
Steve Lortz
Did Wierwille think it was wrong for him to drug and rape young women? I think he knew that general society would consider it to be wrong, but I also think he believed in his own heart that it was on
chockfull
Right. Because the Penn State and Syracuse guys were sexual predators, and VP just used rufees to .... ummmmm, wait. Oh wait, because those guys used their positions of authority to advance their
Jbarrax
FWIW, I dont't think Johniam's deflections are intentional. In my presumptuous opinion, he is simply deeply, emotionally dependent on the illusion that he KNOWS the truth. I have ex-way friends of the same mindset.
It's too diffiCULT for them to let go of the feeling of certainty, and spiritual superiotity that VP peddled.
Kind of sad really
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skyrider
Wierwille chose to lie and deceive.
Wierwille chose to plagairize and steal others' research.
Wierwille chose to walk in darkness rather than the light.
Wierwille chose to push boundaries and target the vulnerable.
Wierwille chose to puff himself up with pride and cigarettes.
Wierwille chose to be drunken in drambuie and dimwittedness.
Wierwille chose to seduce in doctrine and in practice.
Wierwille chose to be a sexual predator and destroy lives.
Wierwille chose the devil's playground......day after day.
Wierwille never could conceive that the internet would EXPOSE him....as he spent decades covering his tracks. The man really wasn't as smart as he thought.
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OperaBuff
It would be interesting to know if sexual predation among TWI followers is more common or less common than the national average. My hunch is that it would be more common because, as you know, they live under unassailable grace and they are God's best and their sheeeaat doesn't stink. Until someone at the top of the TWI pyramid tells them differently, of course.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, IMHO, a sexual predator is a sexual predator. Â All of them are POS.
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Grace Valerie Claire
OB, you are so right. Â A man sees a little boy being raped, and does nothing about it??!! Â WTF!!! Â Why didn't the guy at least phone 911?? Â I hope the rapist, and the guy who witnessed the rape, and did nothing about it, rot in hell.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, personally I don't give a S--t about GC at all. But, I wonder if the women that VPW, and other leaders, raped will ever move forward with their lives. Â I feel for these women. Â How in the name of God, can Chris G, and Howard A sleep at night, knowing how many women were abused?? Â They knew what was going on, and did nothing to stop it??!! Â In my view, these guys are as guilty as VPW. Â Some day there will be a reckoning for all of us; God will deal with them in his own way.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Steve, that makes two of us. Â I hope he rots in hell.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Media reports on Harvey Weinstein, Roy Moore, Al Franken, even Donald Trump. But nothing on Wierwille or Martindale, not even recently.
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krys
We've heard many tales of others in addition to the ones Tom enumerated above. Just about any branch in this country had at least one sleaze in it. And, of course there are many equally sleazy individuals outside of the minustry! No one wants to let them go unpunished but there are only so many hours in a day. We have so many more worthwhile things to do than chase after them. Most of us I guess have decided to let it go and let God handle it when He meters out His justice and I believe that's what God wants us to do now.
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mamouda
Oh yes!!! For sure! I also was proposed sex by two way corps but not in the US so there was really a sex mind at that time! Both were corps and country coordinators.Â
Â
One manipulated me by asking me to open my bathroom door to show him my naked body. I said no. He said something like I was prude but what he said was to make me feel bad. I didn't budge. The other one proposed me to sleep at his house since I needed to go to Paris so of course, I said yes. Naive I was. We slept in the same bed since there was no space (Paris has very small apartments) and he wanted to have sex with me... Of course I said no. But I know he had sex with a girl I witnessed to but she was a nymphomaniac since she also slept with my husband who himself had a blow job from a WOW man.... What sick men...Â
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WordWolf
Old story. A man is asked what a conscience is. He points to his chest. "It is a 3-cornered thing in here. When I do wrong, it spins and the corners hurt me. But if I keep doing wrong, the points wear off, and it doesn't hurt anymore."
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WordWolf
twi has been a haven for sex maniacs for some time.
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Rocky
It's worth noting again that this is not unique to twi. The social mores of the organization allowed it. The self-justifying interpretations of several aspects of scripture dictated it.
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WordWolf
vpw kept taking all sorts of Scriptures about anything and saying there was something sexual about them.
Â
Naturally, when the Bible warned against sexual sins (adultery, etc), vpw said that WASN'T sexual, it was "spiritual adultery."Â
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mamouda
Was he also part of that?
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mamouda
Yes I realize reading all the things that happened :(
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mamouda
Since I wasn't living in the US, never heard of that
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Rocky
That was barely the tip of the iceberg. The Way Tree structure of the organization, where everyone was supposed to cater to the "needs" of the "Man of God" was central to it.
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mamouda
Oh I believe you! Just saying I'm discovering things...
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mamouda
I am wondering how God is going to deal with him because so many got born again and yet, he was a big deceiver
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Grace Valerie Claire
WW, to you it might be an old story, but for those of us who are sexual abuse survivors, it is an ongoing story. I will never get over what was done to me as a child; many of us won't. I feel for anyone who has to deal with sexual abuse; it isn't something that most of us will ever resolve in our lifetimes.
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mamouda
That's why I said above : I wonder how God is going to deal with him because so many got born again and yet, he was a big deceiver. Also the other ones who never said anything.
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waysider
Complicit.
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mamouda
I see. WOW
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