Sexual Predators in TWI.....and elsewhere

[Twinky]

You're not weird, Excie.

But this Chris B - now he sounds very weird.

No doubt you "cast" him far from you.

[Abigail]

i'm reminded of a guy/person who started emailing about my son when he broke his arm or hand or something (he's broken so many) lol

he kept asking me to send pictures of my kid and if he could get in touch with him

it was really really weird. he sent pictures of himself (snort) with a cast on. but none of the pictures showed his face

his name or email addy was chris bateson

i always thought it was chris BAIT SON

do you think i'm insane

don't answer that too fast lol

Nope, I don't think you're insane. I think you nailed it squarely on the head. Boundaries, eh, ExC? Sound like this guy was trying to push yours and get to your son. There are some real sick SOBs out there in the world.

[waysider]

Are you sure his name wasn't Chris G. Ear?

[skyrider]

quote: All who stayed in twi for any length of time had boundaries moved.

Agreed. For example: Rom. 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus...

That and many other scriptures moved boundaries in my life. I'm thankful for it.

Yeah.....didn't wierwille preach that "no condemnation" for years while he was lusting after the flesh and the pride of life? He preached and he preached.....and he sinned and he sinned.

Yet, when he lost his eye and health calamities were mounting......he lamented, "I wish I were the man I know to be." Although many speculate what he really meant by this.....I believe that wierwille had a momentary epiphany that, in looking at his life, he lived selfishly and in sin.

[WordWolf]

vpw criticized hypocrites who cherry-picked the verses they wanted and skipped the verses they

didn't like. Then, of course, vpw WAS a hypocrite who cherry-picked the verses he wanted and

glossed over the verses he didn't like. He'd acknowledge them lightly in public but never seem

to bring them up when discussing conduct of leaders and so on.

vpw was quite experienced at finding verses that he could DISTORT to make it sound like they

supported what he wanted to believe. In private, he "found" a verse that said God was ok

with ORGIES- although they weren't His optimal choice, He would ACCEPT them. So it should

surprise no one that a verse that says "no condemnation" would be creatively interpreted

to mean that no instance of GUILT should ever remain after doing anything, no matter how

sinful an action was. vpw moved the boundaries of interpreting Scripture so that Christians

were allowed to sin a lot so long as they didn't feel guilty about it. And he championed

that position.

[OperaBuff]

vpw criticized hypocrites who cherry-picked the verses they wanted and skipped the verses they

didn't like. Then, of course, vpw WAS a hypocrite who cherry-picked the verses he wanted and

glossed over the verses he didn't like. He'd acknowledge them lightly in public but never seem

to bring them up when discussing conduct of leaders and so on.

vpw was quite experienced at finding verses that he could DISTORT to make it sound like they

supported what he wanted to believe. In private, he "found" a verse that said God was ok

with ORGIES- although they weren't His optimal choice, He would ACCEPT them. So it should

surprise no one that a verse that says "no condemnation" would be creatively interpreted

to mean that no instance of GUILT should ever remain after doing anything, no matter how

sinful an action was. vpw moved the boundaries of interpreting Scripture so that Christians

were allowed to sin a lot so long as they didn't feel guilty about it. And he championed

that position.

Yes.

We were too important a spiritual force in the world to be bogged down by quaint and lawful notions. Adultery is bad? Don't sweat it, just don't feel guilty about doing it. Sexual seduction of younger members is bad? Don't sweat it, just don't feel guilty about doing it. Forgive yourself, and keep moving.

I remember being taught that God is a God of covering, and He would cover for you regarding adultery, rape, and all its attendant damages. Well, the reality of TWI's ongoing disintegration is proving that that teaching is a lie, when the sin and misconduct is deliberate and chronic.

Someday, maybe TWI will wake up and realize the criticisms being leveled against them are God's own truth.

[skyrider]

vpw was quite experienced at finding verses that he could DISTORT to make it sound like they

supported what he wanted to believe. In private, he "found" a verse that said God was ok

with ORGIES- although they weren't His optimal choice, He would ACCEPT them. So it should

surprise no one that a verse that says "no condemnation" would be creatively interpreted

to mean that no instance of GUILT should ever remain after doing anything, no matter how

sinful an action was. vpw moved the boundaries of interpreting Scripture so that Christians

were allowed to sin a lot so long as they didn't feel guilty about it. And he championed

that position.

Yep....wierwille cherry-picked verses that aligned with his "live as you fool please" lifestyle AND distorted other verses to obfuscate their true meaning. While he highlighted the NO CONDEMNATION aspect of the verse.....he would NOT clarify that being "in Christ Jesus" would clearly mean NO SINNING.

IMO.....EVERYTHING wierwille ever taught was distorted to fit his self-serving and sinful lifestyle. Every vpw-teaching is suspect to perversive twists and turns to move boundaries and seduce.

A false teacher does that.

[Twinky]

Someday, maybe TWI will wake up and realize the criticisms being leveled against them are God's own truth.

I thought this bore repeating. I echo it.

Though I doubt the "some day" will be soon.

Twice is established: But God Himself is witness against them, if they would but listen.

[Naten00]

I thought this bore repeating. I echo it.

Though I doubt the "some day" will be soon.

Twice is established: But God Himself is witness against them, if they would but listen.

Isn't that what was going on in chapter 8 of John in regards to Abraham? They claimed Abraham was on their side and then Jesus turned it on them and said he knew Abraham.... Then it basically went down hill from there as they picked up rocks.

[excathedra]

thanks for replies -- never did keep corresponding with chris bateson lol

--

don't know about chapter 8 or anything --

i do believe that when you do something wrong, a guilty conscience is a very good thing

[Rocky]

Yep....wierwille cherry-picked verses that aligned with his "live as you fool please" lifestyle AND distorted other verses to obfuscate their true meaning. While he highlighted the NO CONDEMNATION aspect of the verse.....he would NOT clarify that being "in Christ Jesus" would clearly mean NO SINNING.

IMO.....EVERYTHING wierwille ever taught was distorted to fit his self-serving and sinful lifestyle. Every vpw-teaching is suspect to perversive twists and turns to move boundaries and seduce.

A false teacher does that.

Nailed it.

[shazdancer]

As to how sexual predators pick their victims:

It isn't about morality as much as availability and yes, vulnerability. Sometimes it is the MORE moral person, because that person just can't fathom that a "man of God" would actually have evil motives.

I noticed how, in many of the sexual assault stories, they begin with VP or another predator doing something "edgy" -- casual nudity, spanking a woman on the behind, Sandusky's horseplay in the shower. The predator does that on purpose, to push the boundaries and gauge the reaction of the potential victim. A sharp rebuke will result in denial of motive -- "we were just horsing around, it didn't mean anything" -- and the predator might even accuse the victim or the witness of thinking evil. But if there are easier prey available, the predator will most likely write off the one that was hard to catch, though some feel entitled to continue to go after even the resistant ones in ways that will humiliate them.

Sandusky:

• sets himself up in the role of a hero
  
• creates situations for physical contact
  
• uses "edgy" behavior to lead to assault
  
• pleads guilty to the lesser charge of edgy behavior, but questions the validity of witnesses
  

Sound familiar?

-- Shaz

[skyrider]

As to how sexual predators pick their victims:

It isn't about morality as much as availability and yes, vulnerability. Sometimes it is the MORE moral person, because that person just can't fathom that a "man of God" would actually have evil motives.

I noticed how, in many of the sexual assault stories, they begin with VP or another predator doing something "edgy" -- casual nudity, spanking a woman on the behind, Sandusky's horseplay in the shower. The predator does that on purpose, to push the boundaries and gauge the reaction of the potential victim. A sharp rebuke will result in denial of motive -- "we were just horsing around, it didn't mean anything" -- and the predator might even accuse the victim or the witness of thinking evil. But if there are easier prey available, the predator will most likely write off the one that was hard to catch, though some feel entitled to continue to go after even the resistant ones in ways that will humiliate them.

In hindsight, all corps assignments are SUSPECT....and some were specifically assigned (availability, proximity) near the mog/trustee.

Or, why did wierwille institute a "pajamas only" at Emporia's top floor wierwille library......in 20 minutes? Yeah, head back to your dorm room and return in 20 minutes in your pajamas, thus saith the "man of God." Why? What purpose does this serve?

Or, the big-breasted corps girl assigned on her interim year to the Allen home?

Or, a corps girl invited to ride on the motorcoach with wierwille? Rarily, if ever, did I hear a guy getting to ride on the motorcoach.

Or, corps "promotions" offered or given (ie...bribe) to cover-up/silence. This is what martindale in his attempts to cover the 1998 adv. class sexcapade with a married corps woman.

[waysider]

What???

You mean this stuff wasn't done by revelation???

Oh, now I'm just bummed out.

[skyrider]

In hindsight, all corps assignments are SUSPECT....and some were specifically assigned (availability, proximity) near the mog/trustee.

And further......in connecting the dots, why men who worked alongside wierwille split out abruptly. Did they see things that were disturbing? The bodyguards, valets, pilots,......like when Ambassador One pilot J0hn R@ce left twi. It was sudden and wierwille fumed.

How could wierwille's "bodyguards" witness and/or escort a number of late-night visits to the motorcoach and not speak out? Indoctrination....seduction.....a conscience seared with a hot iron.....boundaries were moved and violated....yeah, even these men were seduced to accept evil.

And, really.....after decades, does one little teaching on adultery wash their sins away? Region men? Top clergy? Rivenbark? DonnaM?

[OldSkool]

And, really.....after decades, does one little teaching on adultery wash their sins away? Region men? Top clergy? Rivenbark? DonnaM?

They seem to think so.

[johniam]

Last night I saw what most of you would consider to be the "feel good movie of the ... decade". This film is disturbing. It takes 'Thelma and Louise' up a few notches. It's called 'Hard candy'(2006).

In it, a 14 yr old girl, whose friend was kidnapped, raped, and killed by a pedophile who met the friend on the internet, texts with someone, meets him at a restaurant, allows herself to be taken to his house, then drugs him, ties him up, tortures him, castrates him, and kills him, all in the name of 'cleaning up the community'.

The guy was a photographer who got underage girls to let him film them. He had kiddie porn in his house, but it is unclear if he was really the one who killed the girl's friend. By the end of the movie, I would feel safer if the girl was the one who was killed.

[skyrider]

Last night I saw what most of you would consider to be the "feel good movie of the ... decade".

Maybe it's just me.....but why do I always get the impression that your posts almost always distract from the topic, especially when the spotlight shines on the sins of wierwille?

After all these years, johniam.....can you now SEE the evil of wierwille and his predatory ways? Can you possibly admit to yourself that the man was a wolf in sheeps' clothing? Can you shoulder the truth behind the wierwille-worship and the twi-cult?

[Abigail]

Maybe it's just me.....but why do I always get the impression that your posts almost always distract from the topic, especially when the spotlight shines on the sins of wierwille?

After all these years, johniam.....can you now SEE the evil of wierwille and his predatory ways? Can you possibly admit to yourself that the man was a wolf in sheeps' clothing? Can you shoulder the truth behind the wierwille-worship and the twi-cult?

Skyrider, ask yourself why he would defend a predator. Defend said predator over and over and over again. The answer to that question is disturbing no? Downright scary and creepy if you ask me.

[skyrider]

Skyrider, ask yourself why he would defend a predator. Defend said predator over and over and over again. The answer to that question is disturbing no? Downright scary and creepy if you ask me.

Yes....it is disturbing.

And to think......twi staff, trustee wives, sell-outs, splinter-group leaders, etc. are DOING THE SAME THING.

[waysider]

For some of our newer posters, may I point out that Johniam is the same poster who, a few years ago, recommended smacking women around if they get too annoying. "Swat them like a pesty mosquito" or something of that nature is what he said.

[socks]

It's called 'Hard candy'(2006).

aw, c'mon johnube

1. It's a movie.

2. It's not unclear? ......... at the end he confesses that he only "watched" the murder but didn't "do" it (which kind of redefines what it means to "do" something I guess).

3. It's a movie.

4. It's not a movie about "cleaning up the community", it's a movie about personal revenge over the death of a friend.

5. Did I say - it's a movie".

No one's comparing that to VPW or any of this topic's points. I'm confused why you'd connect the two.

Actually though your comments do remind me in an abstract way of VPW's personal version of "grace" when it was convenient for himself and his allies and perhaps the guy in the movie could be compared to Geer. 'Member, VPW's version of "saved by grace" meant that:

He didn't actually "do" anything wrong when he did something wrong..........

There's no wrong in the Land of Forever Forgiven!

He applied this selectively though - he himself being the imperfect person he was, chose to punish some but not others, for any range of trespasses, from small to large. He knew something was 'wrong' enough to take action against it but couldn't bring himself to apply that evenly and fairly.

Fall asleep during one of his teachings - on a bad night, you get kicked out of the meeting, the Corps, the property

Screw another person's wife - aww c'mon haw-ney....yoi're not still mad about that are you?

[skyrider]

Fall asleep during one of his teachings - on a bad night, you get kicked out of the meeting, the Corps, the property

Yeah....I saw it with my own two eyes.

The 6th Corps guy who fell asleep during wierwille's corps night teaching was the recipient of a 20-minute, tag-team, screamfest! Wierwille went ballistic and red-faced....unloading toxic adjectives in superlative terms. After wierwille was nearly flothing at the mouth....martindale tag-teamed the verbal assault. It was ugly.

The guy was utterly humiliated and kicked out of the corps meeting. From what I'd heard....he turned in his staff resignation letter the next morning and was sent packing.

With some medical attention, this corps guy was diagnosed with blood sugar imbalances and given medication. Needless to say, wierwille sure missed all this when he was spewing out the "devil spirit possession" verbage......and I witnessed wierwille coming unglued and completely off-base. So much for wierwille's mog-ness.....pppfffffttt.

[Ham]

And to think......twi staff, trustee wives, sell-outs, splinter-group leaders, etc. are DOING THE SAME THING.

I think it is because they have a Product that they think is infallible.

Which engenders an attitude that it can't happen *here*. Or it shouldn't.. or if it does, well, we don't talk about "negatives".. or if it does, it can't be all as bad as it seems.. or if it does, what did you do to invite it?

[Twinky]

And as to that WC6 man, even if he'd been working 18-20 or more hours straight for a week, that still wouldn't be an excuse for falling asleep.

(Nor for more humane working hours.)

However, there is no condemnation to those who fall asleep and therefore fall out of windows and die. Those ones can be raised from the dead (Acts 20:9-12).