also, when i got on the coach with the cockroach geer and the slimy man of god, i am not sure what happened
i know i was drinking with veepee at a little table and the next thing i remember is seeing myself -- like i was floating on the ceiling -- and looking down at him and he was on top of me -- and we were in the back -- on his bed -- puke
i've always said it was like an out of body experience, but i don't know if it was because of drugs or because i went mentally bonkers -- not sure
i am sure about the next morning before arriving at new knoxville. somehow i had gotten over on the side of one of those pull-out little beds -- and he came over and stuck his (barf) in my face. i played possum
it was so awful
i should definitely point out there were quite a few "counseling" sessions before this when i talked to him about being sexually abused as a child -- he did say i needed to be loved the way god intended -- by a real man of god -- but i would book -- get out of there quick -- told him i could not handle it
man, that dark long lonely drive -- i also remember looking into these dead eyeballs (2) on top of me
what a friggin jerk
ExC, I love the courage you have to speak out and say it all. Some day I hope to have that kind of courage.
I dunno.. what about the others, born into this universal poverty..
it really sucks.
I have a job. so surreal..
when I was about five years old, or younger, I had a dream.. there was a mine of sand being exploited by whoever it was at the time..'
but there was machinery there, that I could operate.
there was a mountain of nickels, dimes, quarters there..
as much as I could carry off, nobody objected..
weird dream. It still for the best of words, haunts me.
I show up, at the end of the world here. There is no more real money to speak of..
the landlord here, would like to have his old old records of life and living, converted to a form that his offspring might have a chance to look at, even if the old records just go to the landfill..
so. There is as much material wealth, to haul away, as I wish. As much old records, to convert to a digital image, and place on a flash drive, as I wish..
Thanks Skyrider. I sort of assumed you didn't fully understand what you were implying when you said those things. I pointed them out to you, because overall you seem a decent enough guy. Typically, I don't waste much time arguing with people like Johniam, because he either can't get it or refuses to. But I thought you would get it.
Yeah....rethinking what I said in my earlier post:
I believe there are several reasons why many of us didn't see the red flags. For one thing, a sexual predator targets a selected individual(s) on a basis of many factors.......proximity, promiscuous nature, availability, opportunity, etc.
....."proximity, promiscuous nature, availability, opportunity, etc" doesn't pinpoint it as well as vulnerability. When a sexual predator targets an individual and boundaries are moved, incrementally and seductively, the victim is vulnerable. The opportunity to strike is there, because the predator targeted the individual.
Time and time again, I've given voice that wierwille/twi systematically and seductively laid the groundwork for incrementalism and indoctrination. All who stayed in twi for any length of time had boundaries moved.
oh thank you my darling friend abi -- you give me too much credit
--
waysider, i don't think the penn state psycho has anything to do with wierwille except for the proximity
wierwille and allen came to PA frequently to HUNT (ha!) when i was "getting into the word" (what a horrible way to disgrace god and his son jesus christ)\
PA was a lovely breeding ground for disfunctional gals i guess i don't know
but i don't get the connection with the pedophile except to say abuse is rampant in PA, but i think everywhere
i have known girls with wierwille who loved it and girls with wierwille who we so f'd up from being abused that they didn't know which end was up
but i think i have to agree with my friend wordwolf that it's never really about judging the f'd upness of the victim -- a man/woman who is in a "godly" leadership counseling position is the one held accountable
in fact, one of my friends (rape victim) who left the way happened to get a shrink who also decided to pull rank
she almost died. she probably is dead mentally and spiritually because everywhere she goes for help the same thing happens
my mom says when we die, god says you don't have to go to hell you know or pergatory because that's where you just came from
Animals can sense things about people, such as whether they're mean or cruel or friendly or caring, etc. I don't know how they do it. Maybe it's chemical or magnetic or electrical or whatever. I don't know. Neither do they. I've always had a problem with codependency. If a big storm blows shingles off my in-laws roof, guess who feels compelled to climb the ladder and fix it? I don't know how people sense it but they do. Some people, unfortunately, can sense it and exploit it. I think it's like that with sexual predators (just my opinion). Somehow, they sense a weakness in their prey and take advantage of it. I don't think it's a process that involves logic and reason. It must be similar to the ability animals have to sense things about people. And, the world is filled with animals.
Animals can sense things about people, such as whether they're mean or cruel or friendly or caring, etc. I don't know how they do it. Maybe it's chemical or magnetic or electrical or whatever. I don't know. Neither do they. I've always had a problem with codependency. If a big storm blows shingles off my in-laws roof, guess who feels compelled to climb the ladder and fix it? I don't know how people sense it but they do. Some people, unfortunately, can sense it and exploit it. I think it's like that with sexual predators (just my opinion). Somehow, they sense a weakness in their prey and take advantage of it. I don't think it's a process that involves logic and reason. It must be similar to the ability animals have to sense things about people. And, the world is filled with animals.
I am in complete agreement with you on this Waysider and can add to it. Statistically girls who are sexually assaulted before becoming adults are far more likely to be sexually assalted again as adults. I think part of that is boundaries. There are boundaries that are destroyed when that happens to someone so young and predators know how to read body language and facial expressions and they pick up on subtlies most of us don't see. The way one carries themself, whether you look someone in the eye with confidence or fear or distrust. There are variables and predators are expert at reading people and know who will be the most vulnerable target.
This makes perfect sense to me. What I'm wondering, though, is if it is possible to learn to recognize these nuances in oneself and subsequently offset them. Or, does the predator also sense that the person is attempting to mask them? I'm not asking this casually. I would truly like to know.
This makes perfect sense to me. What I'm wondering, though, is if it is possible to learn to recognize these nuances in oneself and subsequently offset them. Or, does the predator also sense that the person is attempting to mask them? I'm not asking this casually. I would truly like to know.
There are self defense courses that teach you proper body language. How to hold your head high and look straight ahead. How to properly meet a strangers gaze and for how long - so you know when to look away, etc.
But, one of the problems is being assaulted by a stranger is far less common than being attacked by an aquaintance/friend/family member/spouse/authority figure. Often it isn't the stranger but someone you know. Its much harder to hide such vulnerabilities from someone you have regular contact with.
This reply may be so late, it's off topic, but I just wanted to add that , according to news reports last week, the guy who caught Sandusky in the shower with the boy didn't just turn around & run. He said he "put a stop to it" and then left. But alas, didn't call the police.
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WordWolf
vpw criticized hypocrites who cherry-picked the verses they wanted and skipped the verses they didn't like. Then, of course, vpw WAS a hypocrite who cherry-picked the verses he wanted and glossed o
Steve Lortz
Did Wierwille think it was wrong for him to drug and rape young women? I think he knew that general society would consider it to be wrong, but I also think he believed in his own heart that it was on
chockfull
Right. Because the Penn State and Syracuse guys were sexual predators, and VP just used rufees to .... ummmmm, wait. Oh wait, because those guys used their positions of authority to advance their
Abigail
ExC, I love the courage you have to speak out and say it all. Some day I hope to have that kind of courage.
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waysider
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Ham
what I wonder is.. why do we have *leaders* well aware of this nonsense and not blowing the whistle, in charge of offshoots?
Not all, I'm sure. but generally speaking, yes. geero, pan*re*llo, others..
isn't that not much unlike the rc's "relocating" offending bishops, priests, and the like?
just in this circumstance, twi cuts them off. They are free to go.. no longer a liability to da parent organization?
no public condemnation, no.. anything.. just that they are gone..
Honestly. That is why my first question to some of these numbnuts.
In the old organization, did you trade from your supposed spiritual authority, for sexual favors, from anyone under your charge, even once..
Sex is so far friggin over-rated..
Christ.
Trade your eternal life, or in twi terms, rewards, for a few nights of pleasure..
I traded a lot, to raise a family..
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Ham
and if I may continue.
scary.
I wasn't a sexual predator.
I found an equal to myself, by agreement, to propagate the seed..
so far the seed has been better than me..
The seed will be doctors, lawyers, mathematicians, physicists..
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Ham
One of them will be a world class soccer player. Who was the Brazillian hero..
born on the same day.
His father was born in Brazil..
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Steve Lortz
If I were to call Wierwille a viper, it would be an insult to vipers. I regret that I EVER had ANY respect for that son of hell.
Love,
Steve
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Ham
I dunno.. what about the others, born into this universal poverty..
it really sucks.
I have a job. so surreal..
when I was about five years old, or younger, I had a dream.. there was a mine of sand being exploited by whoever it was at the time..'
but there was machinery there, that I could operate.
there was a mountain of nickels, dimes, quarters there..
as much as I could carry off, nobody objected..
weird dream. It still for the best of words, haunts me.
I show up, at the end of the world here. There is no more real money to speak of..
the landlord here, would like to have his old old records of life and living, converted to a form that his offspring might have a chance to look at, even if the old records just go to the landfill..
so. There is as much material wealth, to haul away, as I wish. As much old records, to convert to a digital image, and place on a flash drive, as I wish..
what the hell is going on here..
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waysider
Warning! Off Topic!
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Ham
There is no off topic here..
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skyrider
Yeah....rethinking what I said in my earlier post:
....."proximity, promiscuous nature, availability, opportunity, etc" doesn't pinpoint it as well as vulnerability. When a sexual predator targets an individual and boundaries are moved, incrementally and seductively, the victim is vulnerable. The opportunity to strike is there, because the predator targeted the individual.
Time and time again, I've given voice that wierwille/twi systematically and seductively laid the groundwork for incrementalism and indoctrination. All who stayed in twi for any length of time had boundaries moved.
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excathedra
oh thank you my darling friend abi -- you give me too much credit
--
waysider, i don't think the penn state psycho has anything to do with wierwille except for the proximity
wierwille and allen came to PA frequently to HUNT (ha!) when i was "getting into the word" (what a horrible way to disgrace god and his son jesus christ)\
PA was a lovely breeding ground for disfunctional gals i guess i don't know
but i don't get the connection with the pedophile except to say abuse is rampant in PA, but i think everywhere
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excathedra
i have known girls with wierwille who loved it and girls with wierwille who we so f'd up from being abused that they didn't know which end was up
but i think i have to agree with my friend wordwolf that it's never really about judging the f'd upness of the victim -- a man/woman who is in a "godly" leadership counseling position is the one held accountable
in fact, one of my friends (rape victim) who left the way happened to get a shrink who also decided to pull rank
she almost died. she probably is dead mentally and spiritually because everywhere she goes for help the same thing happens
my mom says when we die, god says you don't have to go to hell you know or pergatory because that's where you just came from
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waysider
Animals can sense things about people, such as whether they're mean or cruel or friendly or caring, etc. I don't know how they do it. Maybe it's chemical or magnetic or electrical or whatever. I don't know. Neither do they. I've always had a problem with codependency. If a big storm blows shingles off my in-laws roof, guess who feels compelled to climb the ladder and fix it? I don't know how people sense it but they do. Some people, unfortunately, can sense it and exploit it. I think it's like that with sexual predators (just my opinion). Somehow, they sense a weakness in their prey and take advantage of it. I don't think it's a process that involves logic and reason. It must be similar to the ability animals have to sense things about people. And, the world is filled with animals.
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krys
Maybe you're right, waysider, but I think vp also had most of his victims disclose at least the source of their weakness.
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Abigail
I am in complete agreement with you on this Waysider and can add to it. Statistically girls who are sexually assaulted before becoming adults are far more likely to be sexually assalted again as adults. I think part of that is boundaries. There are boundaries that are destroyed when that happens to someone so young and predators know how to read body language and facial expressions and they pick up on subtlies most of us don't see. The way one carries themself, whether you look someone in the eye with confidence or fear or distrust. There are variables and predators are expert at reading people and know who will be the most vulnerable target.
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waysider
This makes perfect sense to me. What I'm wondering, though, is if it is possible to learn to recognize these nuances in oneself and subsequently offset them. Or, does the predator also sense that the person is attempting to mask them? I'm not asking this casually. I would truly like to know.
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Abigail
There are self defense courses that teach you proper body language. How to hold your head high and look straight ahead. How to properly meet a strangers gaze and for how long - so you know when to look away, etc.
But, one of the problems is being assaulted by a stranger is far less common than being attacked by an aquaintance/friend/family member/spouse/authority figure. Often it isn't the stranger but someone you know. Its much harder to hide such vulnerabilities from someone you have regular contact with.
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waysider
Thank you. That explains a lot of what I was wondering.
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johniam
quote: All who stayed in twi for any length of time had boundaries moved.
Agreed. For example: Rom. 8:1 - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus...
That and many other scriptures moved boundaries in my life. I'm thankful for it.
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Abigail
LOL. You are a master baiter Johniam. I'm glad your thankful your boundaries were moved. lol
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Steve Lortz
"...who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (see verse 4 if you don't like it here in verse 1).
There was a boundary Wierwille certainly rationalized away! Of course, he didn't need to walk after the flesh. He had a motorcoach for pursuing that!
Love,
Steve
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waysider
Jesus wept.
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Jbarrax
This reply may be so late, it's off topic, but I just wanted to add that , according to news reports last week, the guy who caught Sandusky in the shower with the boy didn't just turn around & run. He said he "put a stop to it" and then left. But alas, didn't call the police.
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excathedra
i'm reminded of a guy/person who started emailing about my son when he broke his arm or hand or something (he's broken so many) lol
he kept asking me to send pictures of my kid and if he could get in touch with him
it was really really weird. he sent pictures of himself (snort) with a cast on. but none of the pictures showed his face
his name or email addy was chris bateson
i always thought it was chris BAIT SON
do you think i'm insane
don't answer that too fast lol
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