Now my wife tells me not everyone in the way is like that.
I dunno. The only ones who come to mind that aren't like that.. have left. Or been kicked out. well, no, that isn't exactly right either.. I've run into the same arrogance from some who have left, or were kicked out, and are "fellowshipping" in an offshoot.
maybe, it's the ones who aren't like that.. have left. or been kicked out, and consumed a ton of lsd, or something, afterwards..
it's been a few years since I left. About the only thing wayish that still remains with me.. I just can't bring myself to play with a Ouija board..
I wasn't exactly a fan of that practice before involvement in the way either. So maybe it isn't wayish after all..
Wayfers tend to see you not as a visitor but as a prospect for their Class.
This is so sad but so true. I went way disciple twice and was graduated way corps for a number of years. We were taught how to groom candidates for the class and how to work with key people (a.k.a advanced class grads and other faithful followers) in fellowships to team up on new folks. Not interested in the class series? You are guaranteed to be labeled any number of things from uncommitted to waste of time. That doesn't mean you will be asked to leave but expect to be treated with disinterest for a period of time until new attempts are made to get you into the class series. It will never stop. There will always be downward pressure from headquarters to recruit people into their classes and programs.
There is a document called vision and direction, penned by Rosalie and company, specifically for the way corps that details how growth is measured in an area of outreach on the field. Bottom line abundant sharing should always increase, which measures the addition of new "faithful" disciples. Classes are set on a rotating schedule and there is always back room strategics between branch, limb. region, and way of the USA to pack the classes. Makes sense eh? Once a person is a foundational class grad they are expected to at least tithe and quickly graduate into abundant sharing, where a person gives more than 10% of their pay.
Never forget this one, little, simple thing....it's all about the money. When you start to look more like an albatross and less like a cash cow, their interest will fade.
Galen.... As I understand that is your experience with people in TWI.... That however is not my own.... When in conversations with people in TWI they speak down to me and tell me that seminary and bible colleges is just a bunch of junk. They also tell me that they are the ONLY ones who read the greek, look at context and so on.... They do not respect my input and roll their eye's if I come with a rebuttal to there "teaching" me in our conversation that stumps them. Every single person who has come to talk to me about Christianity from the Way comes not to have a conversation with me but tries to teach me right off the bat and many times "teaching" me something I already know. For instance "Hey, did you know that the bible doesn't say there were 3 kings" Then to start a lecture on how that is true and that VPW has all the answers. That is my experience.
Naten00,
What you've already experienced with folks from TWI is (IMO) what you'll get from most of them. They "know that they know that they know" most everything and like carp climbing all over each other to get bread crumbs they'll get all lathered up once you (a non-grad new person)say something they perceive as "off the word" and can't wait to be the first one in to confront your illogic. If the first to speak slightly stumbles another will be right there to steal their breadcrumb.
The basis for this attitude comes from their foundational class where VPW gave an example of most bible fellowships he had witnessed. A verse is read and Maggie says "well I think it means" and Johnny says "I think it means", etc. Some of the things that Maggie et all say are obviously wrong and are easily corrected by intelligent discussion and reading the verse in the context. Most (non TWI)bible fellowships that I knew of may have a discussion like this but by input from everyone they'd eventually come up with the right answer. But VPW condemned this type of thinking as "private interpretation" and said it didn't matter what you or I thought but "what does the word say?". Then he would proceed to tell his followers what "the word" said and meant.
You will rarely hear a wayfer say "I thinkit means...". They take pride in not being "open minded". They already know much more than anyone who went to a bible college or a (gasp) seminary. (VPW called them cemeteries.)
With all that you have read on this site you are well-equipped to see through most of their sales pitches. Go ahead and go. It should be interesting. Who knows, you might learn something.
Galen,
You are a bit of a puzzle to me. You've been around for decades and apparently are still in at this time, but you still call the fellowships "twigs"? That moniker has not been used for over 15 years and most good wayfers would have had that drilled out of them long ago. Are you sure you go to a TWI sanctioned Household Fellowship?
I don't doubt that you could be attending a TWI "twig" that allows free thinking. I noticed that some areas of the country actually had what seemed to be thriving fellowships and the leaders of those fellowships were generally rebels who insulated their fellowship from HQ and did their own thing. Does your fellowship run a lot of classes or is it comprised mostly of old-timers who ignore what HQ is doing? As long as your fellowship sends in their ABS you'll probably be left alone. They've lost too many people already and are less apt to throw many more out if you're helping to pay the bills.
Pins for how many years you’ve been in? Really? They’re getting more and more like a church every day.
Oh, concerning them checking on you each time you come back: your name certainly has travelled up and down the way tree. You are being discussed, watched...especially when the horn of plenty comes around. You can buy yourself time off with good behavior according to how deep your pocket is.
What you've already experienced with folks from TWI is (IMO) what you'll get from most of them. They "know that they know that they know" most everything and like carp climbing all over each other to get bread crumbs they'll get all lathered up once you (a non-grad new person)say something they perceive as "off the word" and can't wait to be the first one in to confront your illogic. If the first to speak slightly stumbles another will be right there to steal their breadcrumb.
The basis for this attitude comes from their foundational class where VPW gave an example of most bible fellowships he had witnessed. A verse is read and Maggie says "well I think it means" and Johnny says "I think it means", etc. Some of the things that Maggie et all say are obviously wrong and are easily corrected by intelligent discussion and reading the verse in the context. Most (non TWI)bible fellowships that I knew of may have a discussion like this but by input from everyone they'd eventually come up with the right answer. But VPW condemned this type of thinking as "private interpretation" and said it didn't matter what you or I thought but "what does the word say?". Then he would proceed to tell his followers what "the word" said and meant.
You will rarely hear a wayfer say "I thinkit means...". They take pride in not being "open minded". They already know much more than anyone who went to a bible college or a (gasp) seminary. (VPW called them cemeteries.)
With all that you have read on this site you are well-equipped to see through most of their sales pitches. Go ahead and go. It should be interesting. Who knows, you might learn something.
Well I was just hoping I wouldn't go there either to have them lecture me about "the way"..... Or to have them roll their eye's and such at me....
I may go just to get the experience but ummmmm not something I would look forward too.
A year ago I posted of a guy I know who was attending a current twi fellowship and said he liked it. No longer. It seems they kept pushing him to go WOW, relocate, for the cause. This guy's 47 years old. He's divorced, kids are grown, nothing forcing him to stay anywhere, but at 47, who wants to 'go and grow'? Not me. They just wouldn't let him enjoy the fellowship.
Naten, you are welcome to come to our fellowship. We don't belong to TWI or any other outfit except God's family. We get together and share some Word and sing some songs and love on each other. Er,... by that I mean we love on each other in a good, healthy, clean way. (Except that one time, I could swear that old lady slipped me some tongue when we kissed hello. Maybe she just had a caraway seed stuck in her dentures?) But we don't love on each other the new Way way that involves adultery and affairs and abortions and such. And we won't charge you for the classes.
You are a bit of a puzzle to me. You've been around for decades and apparently are still in at this time, but you still call the fellowships "twigs"? That moniker has not been used for over 15 years and most good wayfers would have had that drilled out of them long ago. Are you sure you go to a TWI sanctioned Household Fellowship? ...
I am pretty sure that our fellowship / twig is 'sanctioned' as much as possible. Some get the magazine and the Sunday Service DVDs, and we get regular announcements of upcoming events.
Some of us use the phrase 'twig' and some use 'fellowship'; I have not been told of any distinction between the use of these phrases.
I am pretty sure that our fellowship / twig is 'sanctioned' as much as possible. Some get the magazine and the Sunday Service DVDs, and we get regular announcements of upcoming events.
Some of us use the phrase 'twig' and some use 'fellowship'; I have not been told of any distinction between the use of these phrases.
It's either a way international fellowship or not. TWI's fellowship coordinators are approved by the board of directors and work with active way corps very closely. Also, you would have way corps come teach your fellowship at some point and likely several times a year. Fellowships are very tightly micromanaged by way corps as well. The coordinator has to turn a teaching topic calendar for approval (think STS, way magazine, etc. here) and the topics are based on a teaching calendar sent from HQ that is all centered around the yearly theme, the HFC have to attend planning meetings, organize people to attend branch/limb/region functions, push hard to get new people into the scheduled foundational classes, attend HFC training class, solicit people to "volunteer" to teach/lead fellowship and provide refreshments, and the list could go on. I am getting the hives just recounting some of the crap I had to do when I was a household fellowship coordinator.
There were some areas, such as the state of Mississippi, where there were no fellowships or branches. Miss. was considered a limb and was handled by the Louisiana limb coordinator. There were at the time a group of folks who lived in Jackson, Miss. who were were wayfers. They were not considered a fellowship and were frowned on by leadership because they had been told to move to an area where there was a fellowship. These folks had subscriptions to STS / way magazine, received announcements, could travel to attend classes, were invited to attend functions at HQ, and of course could send in money to HQ. But - they were not considered a way international fellowship even though they met weekly and worked through approved ministry materials.
I am not sure what type of fellowship you are involved in but it does not sound official to me, though I could be wrong and often am.
I am not sure what type of fellowship you are involved in but it does not sound official to me, though I could be wrong and often am.
Just want to say Oldskool your profile pic... I love it... They are prefect for this website... I can just see them cracking jokes at TWI as they do the muppets.... Possibly one and the same! ha ha ha ha ha
Just want to say Oldskool your profile pic... I love it... They are prefect for this website... I can just see them cracking jokes at TWI as they do the muppets.... Possibly one and the same! ha ha ha ha ha
Thanks! I too thought Statler and Waldorf appropriate for discussing the way international as well. Especially because TWI take themselves so serious. I men, you know the WOG (a.k.a Rozilla) is standing in the gap believing to keep the adversary in check so they can sell more classes and what not...
There were some areas, such as the state of Mississippi, where there were no fellowships or branches. Miss. was considered a limb and was handled by the Louisiana limb coordinator. There were at the time a group of folks who lived in Jackson, Miss. who were were wayfers. They were not considered a fellowship and were frowned on by leadership because they had been told to move to an area where there was a fellowship. These folks had subscriptions to STS / way magazine, received announcements, could travel to attend classes, were invited to attend functions at HQ, and of course could send in money to HQ. But - they were not considered a way international fellowship even though they met weekly and worked through approved ministry materials.
I think I remember this. One guy who was a way grad was friends with a pastor of a church and convinced him to take the Foundational Class. He did, and so his church did. Over time, because they came from a church and were pretty tight TWI really wasn't able to control them sufficiently like they could others with the tactics they use - bully them into re-locating closer to some Way Corpse person. Because of no control - no twig. Over years of being sluffed off they eventually decided why bother and who needs them.
TWI gravitates towards control. Always has, always will. In this they are diametrically opposed to the grace you read about in the Epistles. Practical, and doctrinal error.
Thanks! I too thought Statler and Waldorf appropriate for discussing the way international as well. Especially because TWI take themselves so serious. I men, you know the WOG (a.k.a Rozilla) is standing in the gap believing to keep the adversary in check so they can sell more classes and what not...
Hey - works for me. The BOD + Prez cab ARE a bunch of muppets dancing around with strings attached to the evil queen.
Rosie reminds me of the new ABC drama Once Upon A Time about the evil queen who curses the fairy tale realm and transports them to "reality" becoming the mayor of Storybooke, Maine and oppossing any dissension. The outsider who tries to correct this is the daughter of Snow White(now a school teacher) and Prince Charming who was in a coma. The other fairy tale drama is Grimm, a policeman descendant of the brothers Grimm who tracks down the villians like the wolves and bears(Way Corps). Wonder if she and Donna have heard about it, lol. Coiencidence(sp?) is too delicious too imagine.
Thanks! I too thought Statler and Waldorf appropriate for discussing the way international as well. Especially because TWI take themselves so serious. I men, you know the WOG (a.k.a Rozilla) is standing in the gap believing to keep the adversary in check so they can sell more classes and what not...
:blink:...rozilla's expecting a check from the devil!?! :o
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Twinky
If you go - don't leave your critical thinking skills at home. Be kind, be considerate. But don't be a fool.
chockfull
With us using Galen as an example on this thread, and him posting I just wanted to take the time to say that Galen himself is actually a really nice guy and a good person. I'm sure many people around
chockfull
Hahaha. The Facebook "unfriend" feature... Making being shunned by a cult as easy as pressing a button
Ham
I dunno. The only ones who come to mind that aren't like that.. have left. Or been kicked out. well, no, that isn't exactly right either.. I've run into the same arrogance from some who have left, or were kicked out, and are "fellowshipping" in an offshoot.
maybe, it's the ones who aren't like that.. have left. or been kicked out, and consumed a ton of lsd, or something, afterwards..
it's been a few years since I left. About the only thing wayish that still remains with me.. I just can't bring myself to play with a Ouija board..
I wasn't exactly a fan of that practice before involvement in the way either. So maybe it isn't wayish after all..
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Ham
Oh, hi Galen. Nice to see you here.. hope all is well with you and your family..
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chockfull
Hahaha. The Facebook "unfriend" feature... Making being shunned by a cult as easy as pressing a button
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OldSkool
This is so sad but so true. I went way disciple twice and was graduated way corps for a number of years. We were taught how to groom candidates for the class and how to work with key people (a.k.a advanced class grads and other faithful followers) in fellowships to team up on new folks. Not interested in the class series? You are guaranteed to be labeled any number of things from uncommitted to waste of time. That doesn't mean you will be asked to leave but expect to be treated with disinterest for a period of time until new attempts are made to get you into the class series. It will never stop. There will always be downward pressure from headquarters to recruit people into their classes and programs.
There is a document called vision and direction, penned by Rosalie and company, specifically for the way corps that details how growth is measured in an area of outreach on the field. Bottom line abundant sharing should always increase, which measures the addition of new "faithful" disciples. Classes are set on a rotating schedule and there is always back room strategics between branch, limb. region, and way of the USA to pack the classes. Makes sense eh? Once a person is a foundational class grad they are expected to at least tithe and quickly graduate into abundant sharing, where a person gives more than 10% of their pay.
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waysider
Never forget this one, little, simple thing....it's all about the money. When you start to look more like an albatross and less like a cash cow, their interest will fade.
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excathedra
who cares about a pin?
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waysider
Oh, goody! A pin! I could display it in the trophy case where I keep all my various nametags.
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frank123lol
When Ileft it was just a stand up for how many years you were "in".
I am "friends" with some active wayers on facebook.No conversations
though.People are people the cult is out for blood.
Go if you want,I don't go to church neither does my wife and kids.
God is bigger than this horsepucky.
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PatAnswer
Naten00,
What you've already experienced with folks from TWI is (IMO) what you'll get from most of them. They "know that they know that they know" most everything and like carp climbing all over each other to get bread crumbs they'll get all lathered up once you (a non-grad new person)say something they perceive as "off the word" and can't wait to be the first one in to confront your illogic. If the first to speak slightly stumbles another will be right there to steal their breadcrumb.
The basis for this attitude comes from their foundational class where VPW gave an example of most bible fellowships he had witnessed. A verse is read and Maggie says "well I think it means" and Johnny says "I think it means", etc. Some of the things that Maggie et all say are obviously wrong and are easily corrected by intelligent discussion and reading the verse in the context. Most (non TWI)bible fellowships that I knew of may have a discussion like this but by input from everyone they'd eventually come up with the right answer. But VPW condemned this type of thinking as "private interpretation" and said it didn't matter what you or I thought but "what does the word say?". Then he would proceed to tell his followers what "the word" said and meant.
You will rarely hear a wayfer say "I thinkit means...". They take pride in not being "open minded". They already know much more than anyone who went to a bible college or a (gasp) seminary. (VPW called them cemeteries.)
With all that you have read on this site you are well-equipped to see through most of their sales pitches. Go ahead and go. It should be interesting. Who knows, you might learn something.
Galen,
You are a bit of a puzzle to me. You've been around for decades and apparently are still in at this time, but you still call the fellowships "twigs"? That moniker has not been used for over 15 years and most good wayfers would have had that drilled out of them long ago. Are you sure you go to a TWI sanctioned Household Fellowship?
I don't doubt that you could be attending a TWI "twig" that allows free thinking. I noticed that some areas of the country actually had what seemed to be thriving fellowships and the leaders of those fellowships were generally rebels who insulated their fellowship from HQ and did their own thing. Does your fellowship run a lot of classes or is it comprised mostly of old-timers who ignore what HQ is doing? As long as your fellowship sends in their ABS you'll probably be left alone. They've lost too many people already and are less apt to throw many more out if you're helping to pay the bills.
Pins for how many years you’ve been in? Really? They’re getting more and more like a church every day.
Oh, concerning them checking on you each time you come back: your name certainly has travelled up and down the way tree. You are being discussed, watched...especially when the horn of plenty comes around. You can buy yourself time off with good behavior according to how deep your pocket is.
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Naten00
Well I was just hoping I wouldn't go there either to have them lecture me about "the way"..... Or to have them roll their eye's and such at me....
I may go just to get the experience but ummmmm not something I would look forward too.
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johniam
an update:
A year ago I posted of a guy I know who was attending a current twi fellowship and said he liked it. No longer. It seems they kept pushing him to go WOW, relocate, for the cause. This guy's 47 years old. He's divorced, kids are grown, nothing forcing him to stay anywhere, but at 47, who wants to 'go and grow'? Not me. They just wouldn't let him enjoy the fellowship.
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OperaBuff
Naten, you are welcome to come to our fellowship. We don't belong to TWI or any other outfit except God's family. We get together and share some Word and sing some songs and love on each other. Er,... by that I mean we love on each other in a good, healthy, clean way. (Except that one time, I could swear that old lady slipped me some tongue when we kissed hello. Maybe she just had a caraway seed stuck in her dentures?) But we don't love on each other the new Way way that involves adultery and affairs and abortions and such. And we won't charge you for the classes.
I promise there will be none of this:
HOT stuff!! Coming at ya!!
http://youtu.be/GfAglGilQBQ
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Galen
I am pretty sure that our fellowship / twig is 'sanctioned' as much as possible. Some get the magazine and the Sunday Service DVDs, and we get regular announcements of upcoming events.
Some of us use the phrase 'twig' and some use 'fellowship'; I have not been told of any distinction between the use of these phrases.
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OldSkool
It's either a way international fellowship or not. TWI's fellowship coordinators are approved by the board of directors and work with active way corps very closely. Also, you would have way corps come teach your fellowship at some point and likely several times a year. Fellowships are very tightly micromanaged by way corps as well. The coordinator has to turn a teaching topic calendar for approval (think STS, way magazine, etc. here) and the topics are based on a teaching calendar sent from HQ that is all centered around the yearly theme, the HFC have to attend planning meetings, organize people to attend branch/limb/region functions, push hard to get new people into the scheduled foundational classes, attend HFC training class, solicit people to "volunteer" to teach/lead fellowship and provide refreshments, and the list could go on. I am getting the hives just recounting some of the crap I had to do when I was a household fellowship coordinator.
There were some areas, such as the state of Mississippi, where there were no fellowships or branches. Miss. was considered a limb and was handled by the Louisiana limb coordinator. There were at the time a group of folks who lived in Jackson, Miss. who were were wayfers. They were not considered a fellowship and were frowned on by leadership because they had been told to move to an area where there was a fellowship. These folks had subscriptions to STS / way magazine, received announcements, could travel to attend classes, were invited to attend functions at HQ, and of course could send in money to HQ. But - they were not considered a way international fellowship even though they met weekly and worked through approved ministry materials.
I am not sure what type of fellowship you are involved in but it does not sound official to me, though I could be wrong and often am.
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Naten00
Just want to say Oldskool your profile pic... I love it... They are prefect for this website... I can just see them cracking jokes at TWI as they do the muppets.... Possibly one and the same! ha ha ha ha ha
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OldSkool
Thanks! I too thought Statler and Waldorf appropriate for discussing the way international as well. Especially because TWI take themselves so serious. I men, you know the WOG (a.k.a Rozilla) is standing in the gap believing to keep the adversary in check so they can sell more classes and what not...
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chockfull
I think I remember this. One guy who was a way grad was friends with a pastor of a church and convinced him to take the Foundational Class. He did, and so his church did. Over time, because they came from a church and were pretty tight TWI really wasn't able to control them sufficiently like they could others with the tactics they use - bully them into re-locating closer to some Way Corpse person. Because of no control - no twig. Over years of being sluffed off they eventually decided why bother and who needs them.
TWI gravitates towards control. Always has, always will. In this they are diametrically opposed to the grace you read about in the Epistles. Practical, and doctrinal error.
Hey - works for me. The BOD + Prez cab ARE a bunch of muppets dancing around with strings attached to the evil queen.
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OldSkool
You got that $h1t right!
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Rosie reminds me of the new ABC drama Once Upon A Time about the evil queen who curses the fairy tale realm and transports them to "reality" becoming the mayor of Storybooke, Maine and oppossing any dissension. The outsider who tries to correct this is the daughter of Snow White(now a school teacher) and Prince Charming who was in a coma. The other fairy tale drama is Grimm, a policeman descendant of the brothers Grimm who tracks down the villians like the wolves and bears(Way Corps). Wonder if she and Donna have heard about it, lol. Coiencidence(sp?) is too delicious too imagine.
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Steve Lortz
:blink:...rozilla's expecting a check from the devil!?! :o
:wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
Love,
Steve
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Ham
I thought the evil queen of Sesame Street was also a pig who wore lipstick..
No, I don't think she ever showed up on a Sesame Street episode. Muppets, yes..
In the old series, you know the Pig was fired, once..
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Ham
You know.. they are such a small cult, that it makes it easier to study them..
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waysider
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Naten00
Good one Waysider... ha ha ha
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