there are so many poor people -- not in money -- poor in soul -- poor in desparation -- poor in addiction -- poor in loneliness -- each day it just breaks my heart
there are so many poor people -- not in money -- poor in soul -- poor in desparation -- poor in addiction -- poor in loneliness -- each day it just breaks my heart
And if you really take a look at the gospels Jesus spent his time serving the poor what they needed. Strange how organized religion blames the poor for being poor. the way international excels in this endeavor.
Strange how organized religion blames the poor for being poor. the way international excels in this endeavor.
I could have worded this better. My intent is to call out certain organized religions who excel at ignoring those in need. Some groups do a really good job of handling things.
And if you really take a look at the gospels Jesus spent his time serving the poor what they needed.
Now, see, that's what you get for poking your nose where it doesn't belong. Those pesky Gospels weren't written to "us",dontcha know. Just keep speaking in tongues and reciting Ephesians. Sooner or later, it will all come together for you. And remember, if you are ever in doubt, just ask yourself this question..."What would Paul do?"
I support a local charity which is funded mostly by local churches. The charity helps real "dregs" - people with addiction problems, long term difficulties, really vulnerable for who knows how many reasons. The charity gives people all the time they need and does not push them - rather, offers encouragement and a variety of activities on a drop-in basis, to help these people begin to re-engage.
Last year there was a get together for the volunteers, staff, and local dignitaries. .. and the clients. The food was pleasant but simple and definitely not expensive; the drinks were all soft drinks. The founder/chairman (lovely man) opened by thanking all those present - first and foremost the clients (who were busily stuffing sandwiches into their pockets) - thanking them for giving the rest of us the opportunity to serve.
To record it like this sounds a little patronising - trust me, it wasn't; it was heartfelt and must have gone a long way to acnowledging the client group as members of our society, our community.
Then there was a dance with simple reels and progressive actions - and everyone got to join in.
The homeless ones went back to the Night Shelter and such surplus food as there might have been went back with them.
One of the major determining factors in my becoming a Catholic is that their work and labor of love is directed to the poor of the earth in all categories. Mother Teresa made headlines (and won a nobel peace prize) for her devotion to the poor. It's always a good bet to give to Catholic charities that build wells, orphanages, schools, hospitals, give goats and sewing machines and live with these people, and showing them, in my opinion, the face of Jesus.
Mother Teresa made headlines (and won a nobel peace prize) for her devotion to the poor.
Shortly before Craig was ousted by the fox he went on a Mother Teresa rant based on a book by Christopher Hitchens. Whether the book holds weight or not I agree with what you are saying about Catholic charities and how they help those in need with what they need. the way international has a cookie cutter approach. If you need help they just want to sell you classes and lectures (a.k.a. "teachings") so you can "believe" your own way out of your "self made" problems. Very evil was of doing things and not Christ like at all.
Deut. 15: 11 - "There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land. "
Mark 12:11 - "The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
Both the Law and what Jesus taught leads one to understand that faith in and to God is an individual responsibility, lived in cooperation with others both in and out of the fold. The Way munched this whole topic up and made mincemeat out of it.
Being poor sucks, I must say. Being too sick to work, I depend on SSI. They give me a whole $670 bucks a month to live on and the state kicks in with $125 bucks worth of food stamps. For those engaged in this thread, the chruches only serve a small majority of the poor. Your local non church food banks are the ones serving the majority of the hungry in your city I'd bet. The churches will help the poor members of their church first, then take whatever is leftover in the poor fund to donate to other poor in the town. I don't disagree with that at all, but if you are expecting your donation to go out to the total poor of your city, you need to know how these things work.
Then there are those like me who don't have a car. Can't afford one after paying 500 for rent each month (it also covers utilities for my tiny studio apt). What is left goes for toilet paper, paper towels, extra food that I need at the end of every month since the food stamps don't last a full month ever. My electric wheelchair won't make it round trip to the food bank places in the city and I can't afford the bus ticket. Someone needs to figure out who to get help to those who can't go to a few select areas of each city to go get food or whatever. There should ALSO be an option that if the food bank type places try to give you a box of food stuffs you don't ever eat, you should be able to trade that product(s) for some they have that you do like. Trust me, I tried that years ago when I lived somewhere else and after a fire needed a bit of help getting above water again. They expect you to take what they give you and be happy. All the poor I know and many in this building use food banks monthly, take almost half the 'food' in their box and throw it away each and every month. I've seen what some put out on our community free bench and even when hungry I wouldn't take it home. What good is there to a small bag of pasta if there's nothing to put on top of it or mix into it? Besides, pasta and my Crohn's don't like each other very often and I know better than to eat it and risk getting sicker than I already am.
I haven't been in your exact same shoes, BikerBabe, but close enough to know what you're saying. My wife's on disability for bipolar mood disorder, and we often use the services of our local food pantry. She also has a large family, some other members of which also get food. We are able to swap a lot of things in the family.
I think the best churches are small groups where the members watch out for each other. That's like my wife's family, and it's what twigs SHOULD have been.
Interesting what you say, BB. A food bank has recently started in my city. It will give out to ANYBODY even though it sits under the umbrella of the Christian charity I support. In fact, there is a speaker coming tomorrow to talk to the Advice Volunteer service that I volunteer for; I will ask her about swapping unsuitable food. I suppose there is some attempt to cater for allergies but it would depend on what has been donated.
One of the other charities in the city will also give occasional donations of a gift card at the local supermarket so that people can buy what they need. That charity gives out on the recommendation from my volunteer group. Of course, we advice volunteers will only recommend where we are sure there is a real need and it will be properly used and not spent on alcohol, cigs or other unnecessary stuff.
Interesting what you say, BB. A food bank has recently started in my city. It will give out to ANYBODY even though it sits under the umbrella of the Christian charity I support.
This is how the food pantry I support works as well. There is a central group within the city that the different churches and others donate food, money, clothes, etc. to that then distributes as needed to the different food pantries, shelters, and soup kitchens in the metropolitan area. Also, when the deer population gets out of control in public parks the city allows now hunters to come in and thin the herds, but they have to donate the meat to the same charity that feeds the poor. It's a nice setup. Our church donates premise meatloafs once a month for "Meatloaf Monday" at the soup kitchen. I hear it is a very popular day.
I support a local charity which is funded mostly by local churches. The charity helps real "dregs" - people with addiction problems, long term difficulties, really vulnerable for who knows how many reasons. The charity gives people all the time they need and does not push them - rather, offers encouragement and a variety of activities on a drop-in basis, to help these people begin to re-engage.
Last year there was a get together for the volunteers, staff, and local dignitaries. .. and the clients. The food was pleasant but simple and definitely not expensive; the drinks were all soft drinks. The founder/chairman (lovely man) opened by thanking all those present - first and foremost the clients (who were busily stuffing sandwiches into their pockets) - thanking them for giving the rest of us the opportunity to serve.
To record it like this sounds a little patronising - trust me, it wasn't; it was heartfelt and must have gone a long way to acnowledging the client group as members of our society, our community.
Then there was a dance with simple reels and progressive actions - and everyone got to join in.
The homeless ones went back to the Night Shelter and such surplus food as there might have been went back with them.
Gal. 6:10 - "do good to all, especially those in the household of faith"
1 Tim 5:8 - "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
1 Tim. 5:3 - "Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need."
Acts 6:3 - "In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food."
The list goes on. The N.T. describes the Church taking care of those who need care. Help them.
When Jesus directed people to "love their neighbors" he used a Samaritan in contrast to the Jews he spoke to in Jerusalem. We know they was a historical "north and south" division between them and neither side allowed contact between the two.
In that parable Jesus took the question of "who is my neighbor that I should love?" and stripped the religious and racial issues from the answer which he re formed to answer the question "who is the neighbor that loves?". The emphasis is obvious - be the one who does the right thing without regard to who you do it for. Doing the right thing will direct the action and the subject of the action. If it's someone you have conflict with, that you revile, that you consider not your neighbor by friendly-we-get-along-and-agree standards.
Wayfer leaders disown pretty much everyone in or out of their fold in this regard, they don't accept what Jesus taught or the vision of the Church in the first century, the first two generations of the followers of Jesus Christ. Knowing and believing "The Word like it hasn't been known since the first century"....? I don't think so. No. Nada. Zippidy do not.
To me the conflict in the Church is caused by disagreement on what it means to "do the right thing", what the actual correct doctrine is that we should be attempting to act on.
Legislating the doctrine to the point of exclusion was what Jesus avoided, what he did NOT do. He simply said "Go and do the same, do likewise".
It's up to the individuals to the make those decisions and act together if the decide to "do likewise". When it happens it works and helps people that need it.
The Way's policies illustrated to anyone looking and learning that it's run by a small group of people who decide what's right and what they're going to do - NOT with the involvement of the membership. Clearly in opposition to what the N. T. speaks of. $ goes in, $ never goes out in a coordinated or managed effort that is repeatable to benefit the membership.
NEVER. EVER. The 3 key words - coordinated and managed, repeatable. NEVER. They do not treat their members as "family" or "household" members, they treat them as customers of a very specific and defined kind of product. They're a business, not a "family".
Once they get the $ it's theirs to do with as they choose - they're an incorporated business, "non-profit" of some nature. But they do take in money and they do fund operations and activity.
Just not yours.
Are they followers of "The Way" in how they do that? I think not. I can't see how anyone with two brain cells firing and half a heart pumping could.
Just thought I'd update on the new Foodbank opening in my city. Referrals can be made by social workers, district nurses, advice workers, basically any professional or quasi-prof who is aware of the need. Persons assisted are given a voucher which they take to the pick-up point (a cafe run by a church in town). Applicants are given a drink and then asked what their needs are and ages of people - any special diets, vegos, likes and dislikes, etc. So people who hate pasta might get rice, and v.v. If you don't like tinned spaghetti (who does?!) then maybe you will get beans. There is some baby food available.
Very early days yet, but they are trying hard to meet needs without being condescending or making people feel other than welcome.
Of course, it is not all about food. Poorer people have other needs too. Warm clothing in the winter. Footwear that doesn't leak. Safe housing/shelter. Enough money so that it is not a choice between food on the table, and heating just one room in the home. Not everyone can provide everything; sometimes it's not right to.
And a basic need is to be recognized. Poor, homeless, distressed people are still people. You might not want or be able to give money, but you can give the beggar on the street a smile. Pass the time of day. Ask him what his story is ... and become aware how thin the dividing line is between success and failure, wealth and destitution. The apparent problem often comes on the back of a relationship breakdown or death.
Be amazed, sometimes, at how little provision there is for some groups of people. No wonder they turn to drink to drown their sorrows.
They do not treat their members as "family" or "household" members, they treat them as customers of a very specific and defined kind of product. They're a business, not a "family".
I still recall being a WOW and given a face melting because I wanted to give someone the class fee so he could take it. How dare I not allow him to believe to raise his own dough. I did anyways, secretly.. Course, now that I think about it, it probably would have been better not to have indoctrinated him. What did I know!
And when I was giving my notice to leave the Corps, that was one of my biggest complaints. They are run like a business, with no care for those in need. Only, I didn't get any objections. They agreed whole heartedly they were a business and giving stuff to people didn't, doesn't, and won't work. According to the then Prez, Rosie-lie, Wierwille tried, but it didn't work, so he turned it into a business, and they must continue in his footsteps.
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excathedra
my opinion is also very different
good lord
there are so many poor people -- not in money -- poor in soul -- poor in desparation -- poor in addiction -- poor in loneliness -- each day it just breaks my heart
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OldSkool
And if you really take a look at the gospels Jesus spent his time serving the poor what they needed. Strange how organized religion blames the poor for being poor. the way international excels in this endeavor.
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OldSkool
I could have worded this better. My intent is to call out certain organized religions who excel at ignoring those in need. Some groups do a really good job of handling things.
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waysider
Now, see, that's what you get for poking your nose where it doesn't belong. Those pesky Gospels weren't written to "us",dontcha know. Just keep speaking in tongues and reciting Ephesians. Sooner or later, it will all come together for you. And remember, if you are ever in doubt, just ask yourself this question..."What would Paul do?"
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OldSkool
Oh....silly me....I'm off to do some Lo Shantas.
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Twinky
I support a local charity which is funded mostly by local churches. The charity helps real "dregs" - people with addiction problems, long term difficulties, really vulnerable for who knows how many reasons. The charity gives people all the time they need and does not push them - rather, offers encouragement and a variety of activities on a drop-in basis, to help these people begin to re-engage.
Last year there was a get together for the volunteers, staff, and local dignitaries. .. and the clients. The food was pleasant but simple and definitely not expensive; the drinks were all soft drinks. The founder/chairman (lovely man) opened by thanking all those present - first and foremost the clients (who were busily stuffing sandwiches into their pockets) - thanking them for giving the rest of us the opportunity to serve.
To record it like this sounds a little patronising - trust me, it wasn't; it was heartfelt and must have gone a long way to acnowledging the client group as members of our society, our community.
Then there was a dance with simple reels and progressive actions - and everyone got to join in.
The homeless ones went back to the Night Shelter and such surplus food as there might have been went back with them.
Genesis Trust
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Kit Sober
One of the major determining factors in my becoming a Catholic is that their work and labor of love is directed to the poor of the earth in all categories. Mother Teresa made headlines (and won a nobel peace prize) for her devotion to the poor. It's always a good bet to give to Catholic charities that build wells, orphanages, schools, hospitals, give goats and sewing machines and live with these people, and showing them, in my opinion, the face of Jesus.
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OldSkool
Shortly before Craig was ousted by the fox he went on a Mother Teresa rant based on a book by Christopher Hitchens. Whether the book holds weight or not I agree with what you are saying about Catholic charities and how they help those in need with what they need. the way international has a cookie cutter approach. If you need help they just want to sell you classes and lectures (a.k.a. "teachings") so you can "believe" your own way out of your "self made" problems. Very evil was of doing things and not Christ like at all.
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socks
Deut. 15: 11 - "There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land. "
Mark 12:11 - "The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
Both the Law and what Jesus taught leads one to understand that faith in and to God is an individual responsibility, lived in cooperation with others both in and out of the fold. The Way munched this whole topic up and made mincemeat out of it.
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waysider
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socks
Help a brother out!
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waysider
Would it help if I
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BikerBabe
Being poor sucks, I must say. Being too sick to work, I depend on SSI. They give me a whole $670 bucks a month to live on and the state kicks in with $125 bucks worth of food stamps. For those engaged in this thread, the chruches only serve a small majority of the poor. Your local non church food banks are the ones serving the majority of the hungry in your city I'd bet. The churches will help the poor members of their church first, then take whatever is leftover in the poor fund to donate to other poor in the town. I don't disagree with that at all, but if you are expecting your donation to go out to the total poor of your city, you need to know how these things work.
Then there are those like me who don't have a car. Can't afford one after paying 500 for rent each month (it also covers utilities for my tiny studio apt). What is left goes for toilet paper, paper towels, extra food that I need at the end of every month since the food stamps don't last a full month ever. My electric wheelchair won't make it round trip to the food bank places in the city and I can't afford the bus ticket. Someone needs to figure out who to get help to those who can't go to a few select areas of each city to go get food or whatever. There should ALSO be an option that if the food bank type places try to give you a box of food stuffs you don't ever eat, you should be able to trade that product(s) for some they have that you do like. Trust me, I tried that years ago when I lived somewhere else and after a fire needed a bit of help getting above water again. They expect you to take what they give you and be happy. All the poor I know and many in this building use food banks monthly, take almost half the 'food' in their box and throw it away each and every month. I've seen what some put out on our community free bench and even when hungry I wouldn't take it home. What good is there to a small bag of pasta if there's nothing to put on top of it or mix into it? Besides, pasta and my Crohn's don't like each other very often and I know better than to eat it and risk getting sicker than I already am.
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Steve Lortz
I haven't been in your exact same shoes, BikerBabe, but close enough to know what you're saying. My wife's on disability for bipolar mood disorder, and we often use the services of our local food pantry. She also has a large family, some other members of which also get food. We are able to swap a lot of things in the family.
I think the best churches are small groups where the members watch out for each other. That's like my wife's family, and it's what twigs SHOULD have been.
Love,
Steve
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Twinky
Interesting what you say, BB. A food bank has recently started in my city. It will give out to ANYBODY even though it sits under the umbrella of the Christian charity I support. In fact, there is a speaker coming tomorrow to talk to the Advice Volunteer service that I volunteer for; I will ask her about swapping unsuitable food. I suppose there is some attempt to cater for allergies but it would depend on what has been donated.
One of the other charities in the city will also give occasional donations of a gift card at the local supermarket so that people can buy what they need. That charity gives out on the recommendation from my volunteer group. Of course, we advice volunteers will only recommend where we are sure there is a real need and it will be properly used and not spent on alcohol, cigs or other unnecessary stuff.
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JavaJane
This is how the food pantry I support works as well. There is a central group within the city that the different churches and others donate food, money, clothes, etc. to that then distributes as needed to the different food pantries, shelters, and soup kitchens in the metropolitan area. Also, when the deer population gets out of control in public parks the city allows now hunters to come in and thin the herds, but they have to donate the meat to the same charity that feeds the poor. It's a nice setup. Our church donates premise meatloafs once a month for "Meatloaf Monday" at the soup kitchen. I hear it is a very popular day.
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Jbarrax
Sounds like a wonderful organization Twinky
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waysider
"You're only dancing on this earth for a short while.".......Cat Stevens
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socks
Gal. 6:10 - "do good to all, especially those in the household of faith"
1 Tim 5:8 - "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
1 Tim. 5:3 - "Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need."
Acts 6:3 - "In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food."
The list goes on. The N.T. describes the Church taking care of those who need care. Help them.
When Jesus directed people to "love their neighbors" he used a Samaritan in contrast to the Jews he spoke to in Jerusalem. We know they was a historical "north and south" division between them and neither side allowed contact between the two.
In that parable Jesus took the question of "who is my neighbor that I should love?" and stripped the religious and racial issues from the answer which he re formed to answer the question "who is the neighbor that loves?". The emphasis is obvious - be the one who does the right thing without regard to who you do it for. Doing the right thing will direct the action and the subject of the action. If it's someone you have conflict with, that you revile, that you consider not your neighbor by friendly-we-get-along-and-agree standards.
Wayfer leaders disown pretty much everyone in or out of their fold in this regard, they don't accept what Jesus taught or the vision of the Church in the first century, the first two generations of the followers of Jesus Christ. Knowing and believing "The Word like it hasn't been known since the first century"....? I don't think so. No. Nada. Zippidy do not.
To me the conflict in the Church is caused by disagreement on what it means to "do the right thing", what the actual correct doctrine is that we should be attempting to act on.
Legislating the doctrine to the point of exclusion was what Jesus avoided, what he did NOT do. He simply said "Go and do the same, do likewise".
It's up to the individuals to the make those decisions and act together if the decide to "do likewise". When it happens it works and helps people that need it.
The Way's policies illustrated to anyone looking and learning that it's run by a small group of people who decide what's right and what they're going to do - NOT with the involvement of the membership. Clearly in opposition to what the N. T. speaks of. $ goes in, $ never goes out in a coordinated or managed effort that is repeatable to benefit the membership.
NEVER. EVER. The 3 key words - coordinated and managed, repeatable. NEVER. They do not treat their members as "family" or "household" members, they treat them as customers of a very specific and defined kind of product. They're a business, not a "family".
Once they get the $ it's theirs to do with as they choose - they're an incorporated business, "non-profit" of some nature. But they do take in money and they do fund operations and activity.
Just not yours.
Are they followers of "The Way" in how they do that? I think not. I can't see how anyone with two brain cells firing and half a heart pumping could.
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Twinky
Another excellent post, Socks, thanks.
Just thought I'd update on the new Foodbank opening in my city. Referrals can be made by social workers, district nurses, advice workers, basically any professional or quasi-prof who is aware of the need. Persons assisted are given a voucher which they take to the pick-up point (a cafe run by a church in town). Applicants are given a drink and then asked what their needs are and ages of people - any special diets, vegos, likes and dislikes, etc. So people who hate pasta might get rice, and v.v. If you don't like tinned spaghetti (who does?!) then maybe you will get beans. There is some baby food available.
Very early days yet, but they are trying hard to meet needs without being condescending or making people feel other than welcome.
Of course, it is not all about food. Poorer people have other needs too. Warm clothing in the winter. Footwear that doesn't leak. Safe housing/shelter. Enough money so that it is not a choice between food on the table, and heating just one room in the home. Not everyone can provide everything; sometimes it's not right to.
And a basic need is to be recognized. Poor, homeless, distressed people are still people. You might not want or be able to give money, but you can give the beggar on the street a smile. Pass the time of day. Ask him what his story is ... and become aware how thin the dividing line is between success and failure, wealth and destitution. The apparent problem often comes on the back of a relationship breakdown or death.
Be amazed, sometimes, at how little provision there is for some groups of people. No wonder they turn to drink to drown their sorrows.
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TrustAndObey
I still recall being a WOW and given a face melting because I wanted to give someone the class fee so he could take it. How dare I not allow him to believe to raise his own dough. I did anyways, secretly.. Course, now that I think about it, it probably would have been better not to have indoctrinated him. What did I know!
And when I was giving my notice to leave the Corps, that was one of my biggest complaints. They are run like a business, with no care for those in need. Only, I didn't get any objections. They agreed whole heartedly they were a business and giving stuff to people didn't, doesn't, and won't work. According to the then Prez, Rosie-lie, Wierwille tried, but it didn't work, so he turned it into a business, and they must continue in his footsteps.
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waysider
This certainly begs the question...What was it Wierwille supposedly tried to give away? Curious minds would like to know.
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dabobbada
So..... Weirville tried...... ehhh...?
Who'd he plagarize this time,
.... The Salvation Army?
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frank123lol
That is why they fail,no heart.God loveth a cheerful giver.
Not God loveth someone who pays to get.
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