They were never as important as they led my young mind to believe.
I think occupy twi in any form would only foster the fantasy twi has that what they do is important.
I bet the St. Mary newspaper wouldn't even show up.
twi would love it if people tried to occupy. Then they could go on and on aboout how they backed down the advesary in the face of this attack....blah blah blah
It would be the most excitement they've had in years. A way to justify living off of ABS, while avoiding any practical attempt to develop any job skills to get them employed in this century if they were to leave HQ.
So in other words, I think ignoring them is the best solution for them and us.
They were never as important as they led my young mind to believe.
I think occupy twi in any form would only foster the fantasy twi has that what they do is important.
I bet the St. Mary newspaper wouldn't even show up.
twi would love it if people tried to occupy. Then they could go on and on aboout how they backed down the advesary in the face of this attack....blah blah blah
It would be the most excitement they've had in years. A way to justify living off of ABS, while avoiding any practical attempt to develop any job skills to get them employed in this century if they were to leave HQ.
So in other words, I think ignoring them is the best solution for them and us.
I think you are right about this "ignore" them and their importance will deflate aspect of things. There's a good lesson in that. On the other hand, there's also a good lesson in speaking out against "evil" or abuse or fraud when you know about it. For that reason, I speak out. No matter if only a few or none listen. To me, it's part of making restitution for having been part of the propaganda machine and misleading people into thinking TWI's interpretation of the Bible was the "accuracy" of the Bible, among other things they taught....
My method of handling my past involvement is my own personal choice, and I don't mean to say everyone should speak out or write letters. I only suggest that each of us follow our own conscience on what to do, if anything, about our past involvement with the cult, what we know about its problems, how they relate to the broader society, what to say about these issues and where and when to speak or write I've had the chance to speak publically about my memoir, Affinity for Windows (posted here at GSC) and facilitate discussions about cults and fundamentalism, thereby raising awareness. Guess in my old age I'm finally becoming an activist of sorts...but that shoe is not a one size fits all.
Long ago, my wife and I decided that we would not hold anything back if we felt it might be profitable (in a Godly sense) to share with others about our involvement with The Way International. I left in '87. She left in '89. We got married in '91.
Until recently, it has always been a little uncomfortable for me. I started work on a masters in theological studies at a seminary this fall. I thought, "How much should I reveal to the people here?" I decided to be as open with my profs and fellow students as it seemed necessary, about my former involvement as a cult LEADER. The seminary is a training program for religious leaders after all, and my experiences with God while involved with TWI, even as a low-level leader, have value as examples, both bad AND good.
The people I have opened up to have not been disparaging. They seem to be really interested in what life was like inside a cult. More and more I am realizing that the wickedness of TWI was a reflection of the evil in the hearts of Wierwille and his willing enablers, not a reflection on me and all the other good-intentioned people who were hood-winked and abused.
Each and every one of you is so precious. Don't believe any of the berating we received from those serpents.
They seem to be really interested in what life was like inside a cult. More and more I am realizing that the wickedness of TWI was a reflection of the evil in the hearts of Wierwille and his willing enablers, not a reflection on me and all the other good-intentioned people who were hood-winked and abused.
I have experienced this same kind of response. Not once has anyone, at least to my face, said I was crazy for what I did. Since I seek to understand the fundamentalist cult experience I had and share what I've learned, people appreciate what I have to say and sometimes ask to sit for hours and talk it over. It's as if I have been in a foreign country they'll never visit and they want to know about my travels and what I learned.
Some have family members in cultish or fundamentalist groups and need help understanding them, so sometimes it turns out I'm sort of a translator of experience.
Case in point: a friend expressed she could not see how the angry preachers on T.V. attract followers. I told her that it has to do with the world view you already hold. What you see and hear is filtered through that. I tried to explain that what I did was re-interpret the angry preachers in my group (VPW, LCM, etc. etc.) as being "bold in the Lord," although the content of what they said often was hateful. I didn't see it as hateful. I saw it as "speaking the truth." That seemed to help her "get it."
Steve, as a former cult leader you have a lot to share about what leading a church/fellowship/whatever, about what it is NOT.
You have learned to beware the groupthink and the shared values that are inappropriate.
You have learned about the insidious way that false leaders lay out, the blind leader and the way into the ditch.
You know the dangers, pitfalls, and over-respect of the leader.
You can share all this, with a view to helping others to see when their egos are beginning to take over - when they themselves are magnified, and not God.
Any of your fellow students should be willing to learn, with humility, the traps that the devil can lay before them.
And hopefully any of your fellow students with ego problems who might follow down that path will be exposed at an early stage.
You could also do worse than invite them to read Toxic Faith, and The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse.
That's if they want to help people, and genuinely avoid leading people astray.
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OldSkool
For sometime they've been quietly slipping into irrelevancy; where they belong.
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Naten00
Most people I talk to........ never even heard of them.
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excathedra
because two old ladies living in ohio with a few followers is quite irrelevant
at least kim kardashian's followers get to look at her pretty outfits and nicely applied makeup
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penworks
I think you are right about this "ignore" them and their importance will deflate aspect of things. There's a good lesson in that. On the other hand, there's also a good lesson in speaking out against "evil" or abuse or fraud when you know about it. For that reason, I speak out. No matter if only a few or none listen. To me, it's part of making restitution for having been part of the propaganda machine and misleading people into thinking TWI's interpretation of the Bible was the "accuracy" of the Bible, among other things they taught....
My method of handling my past involvement is my own personal choice, and I don't mean to say everyone should speak out or write letters. I only suggest that each of us follow our own conscience on what to do, if anything, about our past involvement with the cult, what we know about its problems, how they relate to the broader society, what to say about these issues and where and when to speak or write I've had the chance to speak publically about my memoir, Affinity for Windows (posted here at GSC) and facilitate discussions about cults and fundamentalism, thereby raising awareness. Guess in my old age I'm finally becoming an activist of sorts...but that shoe is not a one size fits all.
Cheers.
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excathedra
thank you so much charlene. i don't think i read your story before. very much appreciated!
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Steve Lortz
Long ago, my wife and I decided that we would not hold anything back if we felt it might be profitable (in a Godly sense) to share with others about our involvement with The Way International. I left in '87. She left in '89. We got married in '91.
Until recently, it has always been a little uncomfortable for me. I started work on a masters in theological studies at a seminary this fall. I thought, "How much should I reveal to the people here?" I decided to be as open with my profs and fellow students as it seemed necessary, about my former involvement as a cult LEADER. The seminary is a training program for religious leaders after all, and my experiences with God while involved with TWI, even as a low-level leader, have value as examples, both bad AND good.
The people I have opened up to have not been disparaging. They seem to be really interested in what life was like inside a cult. More and more I am realizing that the wickedness of TWI was a reflection of the evil in the hearts of Wierwille and his willing enablers, not a reflection on me and all the other good-intentioned people who were hood-winked and abused.
Each and every one of you is so precious. Don't believe any of the berating we received from those serpents.
Love,
Steve
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penworks
I have experienced this same kind of response. Not once has anyone, at least to my face, said I was crazy for what I did. Since I seek to understand the fundamentalist cult experience I had and share what I've learned, people appreciate what I have to say and sometimes ask to sit for hours and talk it over. It's as if I have been in a foreign country they'll never visit and they want to know about my travels and what I learned.
Some have family members in cultish or fundamentalist groups and need help understanding them, so sometimes it turns out I'm sort of a translator of experience.
Case in point: a friend expressed she could not see how the angry preachers on T.V. attract followers. I told her that it has to do with the world view you already hold. What you see and hear is filtered through that. I tried to explain that what I did was re-interpret the angry preachers in my group (VPW, LCM, etc. etc.) as being "bold in the Lord," although the content of what they said often was hateful. I didn't see it as hateful. I saw it as "speaking the truth." That seemed to help her "get it."
Cheers.
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Twinky
Steve, as a former cult leader you have a lot to share about what leading a church/fellowship/whatever, about what it is NOT.
You have learned to beware the groupthink and the shared values that are inappropriate.
You have learned about the insidious way that false leaders lay out, the blind leader and the way into the ditch.
You know the dangers, pitfalls, and over-respect of the leader.
You can share all this, with a view to helping others to see when their egos are beginning to take over - when they themselves are magnified, and not God.
Any of your fellow students should be willing to learn, with humility, the traps that the devil can lay before them.
And hopefully any of your fellow students with ego problems who might follow down that path will be exposed at an early stage.
You could also do worse than invite them to read Toxic Faith, and The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse.
That's if they want to help people, and genuinely avoid leading people astray.
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