The video's very interesting. People really adapted to their environment and working out excellent solutions.
John's just showing that wonderfl TWI tendency to over-spiritualize everything.
I wouldn't want to walk on the rotten bridge that he is trying to build.
Exactly, Twinky. There's nothing wrong with the video, itself, or the amazing foresight and diligence this sort of effort takes. But, as usual, in TWI inspired fashion, we see a loose comparison that lacks congruity. Yes, these people are building something. John is, likewise, building "something". That's about as far as the comparison goes. He might just as well have compared himself to someone building a latrine.
I mean give it a rest. WOW was a boondoggle only to form the foundation for way disciple, an even bigger boondoggle of cult indoctrination and control. John-boy needs to get off Victoid's coat-tails and start in a new direction.
This video is lovely, inspiring, and reports on an important undertaking for the people who need those amazing bridges. It seems a clever analogy if you still think the mirage of VP's "Word" is real, but it is ridiculous of JL to claim the story "parallels what we are to be doing with the Word." That is propaganda, and it isn't even very good propaganda IMO.
Call me overly analytical, but for the analogy to be a good one, I suspect there would need to be one undeniably clear (to everyone on the planet) interpretation of what "the Word" is and what it says, if "The Word" refers to the Bible (which Bible is another matter).
News flash to JL: you've oversimplified a complex issue like VP did. In other words, you are digging around in a can of worms, and sorry, but you can't build bridges out of worms. The don't stay still long enough.
Words, yes, even words in Bibles, are wiggly things, and are subject to "private" interpretation the minute a human being reads them. VP's "keys to research" that JL clings to do not create a dependable vine . Why do you think we've got so many Protestant denominations? Why do you think Martin Luther broke away from the Catholics? He interpreted scripture differently.
VP's interpretations which JL promotes, although with some "tweaks", is plagarized from others who were fundamentalists. No doubt there is value in some of the teachings, regardless of where they came from, but let's remember, we're still dealing with people's interpretations, not an objective "Word" that JL thinks he can move over the world. He's moving words that wiggle like worms.
A quick trip to the public library or to Google to check the aisles containing works on theology and Biblical interpretation shows you that the matter of "the Word" is not so simple. Knowledge on these topics is readily available.
Cheers!
Pen
"I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo
I mean give it a rest. WOW was a boondoggle only to form the foundation for way disciple, an even bigger boondoggle of cult indoctrination and control. John-boy needs to get off Victoid's coat-tails and start in a new direction.
This video is lovely, inspiring, and reports on an important undertaking for the people who need those amazing bridges. It seems a clever analogy if you still think the mirage of VP's "Word" is real, but it is ridiculous of JL to claim the story "parallels what we are to be doing with the Word." That is propaganda, and it isn't even very good propaganda IMO.
Call me overly analytical, but for the analogy to be a good one, I suspect there would need to be one undeniably clear (to everyone on the planet) interpretation of what "the Word" is and what it says, if "The Word" refers to the Bible (which Bible is another matter).
News flash to JL: you've oversimplified a complex issue like VP did. In other words, you are digging around in a can of worms, and sorry, but you can't build bridges out of worms. The don't stay still long enough.
Words, yes, even words in Bibles, are wiggly things, and are subject to "private" interpretation the minute a human being reads them. VP's "keys to research" that JL clings to do not create a dependable vine . Why do you think we've got so many Protestant denominations? Why do you think Martin Luther broke away from the Catholics? He interpreted scripture differently.
VP's interpretations which JL promotes, although with some "tweaks", is plagarized from others who were fundamentalists. No doubt there is value in some of the teachings, regardless of where they came from, but let's remember, we're still dealing with people's interpretations, not an objective "Word" that JL thinks he can move over the world. He's moving words that wiggle like worms.
A quick trip to the public library or to Google to check the aisles containing works on theology and Biblical interpretation shows you that the matter of "the Word" is not so simple. Knowledge on these topics is readily available.
Cheers!
Pen
"I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo
I mean give it a rest. WOW was a boondoggle only to form the foundation for way disciple, an even bigger boondoggle of cult indoctrination and control. John-boy needs to get off Victoid's coat-tails and start in a new direction.
This video is lovely, inspiring, and reports on an important undertaking for the people who need those amazing bridges. It seems a clever analogy if you still think the mirage of VP's "Word" is real, but it is ridiculous of JL to claim the story "parallels what we are to be doing with the Word." That is propaganda, and it isn't even very good propaganda IMO.
Call me overly analytical, but for the analogy to be a good one, I suspect there would need to be one undeniably clear (to everyone on the planet) interpretation of what "the Word" is and what it says, if "The Word" refers to the Bible (which Bible is another matter).
News flash to JL: you've oversimplified a complex issue like VP did. In other words, you are digging around in a can of worms, and sorry, but you can't build bridges out of worms. The don't stay still long enough.
Words, yes, even words in Bibles, are wiggly things, and are subject to "private" interpretation the minute a human being reads them. VP's "keys to research" that JL clings to do not create a dependable vine . Why do you think we've got so many Protestant denominations? Why do you think Martin Luther broke away from the Catholics? He interpreted scripture differently ( and a few other reasons).
VP's interpretations which JL promotes, although with some "tweaks", is plagarized from others who were fundamentalists. No doubt there is value in some of the teachings, regardless of where they came from, but let's remember, we're still dealing with people's interpretations, not an objective "Word" that JL thinks he can move over the world. He's moving words that wiggle like worms.
A quick trip to the public library or to Google to check the aisles containing works on theology and Biblical interpretation shows you that the matter of "the Word" is not so simple. Knowledge on these topics is readily available.
Cheers!
Pen
"I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo
Yeh, in order to get something, a thing done, there needs to be a clear 'vision' of what it is and the result NEEDS TO BE MEASURABLE.
Building bridges is measurable. When you're done there's a bridge. What's a bridge do? Provide ACCESS for those who want to get to the other side.
I never met a metaphor I didn't like but it has to fit in some way that "rings true". jALs could, if he didn't mention WOW. WOW was/is too loose of an idea
to work with to make his point.
Which may really be....
"if you know what I'm talking about you'll get it and if you don't you're one of the ones who dropped off the back of the truck and it's sad and I feel bad for you.
Watch this video and I'll feel better knowing you did".
WOW was a good banner ad, a "big idea" that can capture a lot of ideas and movement. But it needs specificity to get moving on the road. "The idea" of it works on too many levels
and it can mean many many different things, even to those of us who were in the Way when Jal was. Who jal is talking about is curious too............
As a distant observer only of jaL's efforts since leaving the Way he seems to be a great example of life's peaks and valleys, up one year, down the next.
I know life is that way, I'm not pointing fingers - and when criticized even I, socks, can take it to be an attack, even when it's meant well
and has value...so it wouldn't surprise me if jaL's pre programmed his response to criticism, as I'm sure he's used to getting it by now.
something like - "well, gosh, you're not succeeding if you're not turning over some bee hives, doncha know!", that sort of logic
(which obviously didn't originate from a bee hive keeper)
Life can be rough but geez, he does seem to have a fair amount of 'collateral damage' in his rear view mirror. But as someone once told me -
"my job doesn't come with a rear view mirror".....meaning he didn't waste time looking back or second guessing himself.
He got fired a year later. True story.
But don't look back, keep moving onward and forward and upward, you ol' bridgemakers!
IMO this is one of the best reference books on the topic of "biblical research" if you are interested in the actual texts. Which some people call The Word.
Ehrman is providing info to the public that has been circulated among scholars for years and years. If more people understood the history of the book we call The Bible, we might find a way to appreciate it for what it is, not what we wish it were...
IMO this is one of the best reference books on the topic of "biblical research" if you are interested in the actual texts. Which some people call The Word.
Ehrman is providing info to the public that has been circulated among scholars for years and years. If more people understood the history of the book we call The Bible, we might find a way to appreciate it for what it is, not what we wish it were...
Cheers!
Another thumbs-up for Ehrman's books. They were instrumental in helping me to break free of the haughty fundamentalism taught by TWI and its offshoots. His writings are straightforward and the evidence he presents is overwhelming.
I have found over the past few years that diving into the subjects of textual criticism and the historical Jesus has put a lot of things into perspective for me. I wish I had started sooner!
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Twinky
The video's very interesting. People really adapted to their environment and working out excellent solutions.
John's just showing that wonderfl TWI tendency to over-spiritualize everything.
I wouldn't want to walk on the rotten bridge that he is trying to build.
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waysider
Exactly, Twinky. There's nothing wrong with the video, itself, or the amazing foresight and diligence this sort of effort takes. But, as usual, in TWI inspired fashion, we see a loose comparison that lacks congruity. Yes, these people are building something. John is, likewise, building "something". That's about as far as the comparison goes. He might just as well have compared himself to someone building a latrine.
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penworks
This video is lovely, inspiring, and reports on an important undertaking for the people who need those amazing bridges. It seems a clever analogy if you still think the mirage of VP's "Word" is real, but it is ridiculous of JL to claim the story "parallels what we are to be doing with the Word." That is propaganda, and it isn't even very good propaganda IMO.
Call me overly analytical, but for the analogy to be a good one, I suspect there would need to be one undeniably clear (to everyone on the planet) interpretation of what "the Word" is and what it says, if "The Word" refers to the Bible (which Bible is another matter).
News flash to JL: you've oversimplified a complex issue like VP did. In other words, you are digging around in a can of worms, and sorry, but you can't build bridges out of worms. The don't stay still long enough.
Words, yes, even words in Bibles, are wiggly things, and are subject to "private" interpretation the minute a human being reads them. VP's "keys to research" that JL clings to do not create a dependable vine . Why do you think we've got so many Protestant denominations? Why do you think Martin Luther broke away from the Catholics? He interpreted scripture differently.
VP's interpretations which JL promotes, although with some "tweaks", is plagarized from others who were fundamentalists. No doubt there is value in some of the teachings, regardless of where they came from, but let's remember, we're still dealing with people's interpretations, not an objective "Word" that JL thinks he can move over the world. He's moving words that wiggle like worms.
A quick trip to the public library or to Google to check the aisles containing works on theology and Biblical interpretation shows you that the matter of "the Word" is not so simple. Knowledge on these topics is readily available.
Cheers!
Pen
"I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo
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penworks
This video is lovely, inspiring, and reports on an important undertaking for the people who need those amazing bridges. It seems a clever analogy if you still think the mirage of VP's "Word" is real, but it is ridiculous of JL to claim the story "parallels what we are to be doing with the Word." That is propaganda, and it isn't even very good propaganda IMO.
Call me overly analytical, but for the analogy to be a good one, I suspect there would need to be one undeniably clear (to everyone on the planet) interpretation of what "the Word" is and what it says, if "The Word" refers to the Bible (which Bible is another matter).
News flash to JL: you've oversimplified a complex issue like VP did. In other words, you are digging around in a can of worms, and sorry, but you can't build bridges out of worms. The don't stay still long enough.
Words, yes, even words in Bibles, are wiggly things, and are subject to "private" interpretation the minute a human being reads them. VP's "keys to research" that JL clings to do not create a dependable vine . Why do you think we've got so many Protestant denominations? Why do you think Martin Luther broke away from the Catholics? He interpreted scripture differently.
VP's interpretations which JL promotes, although with some "tweaks", is plagarized from others who were fundamentalists. No doubt there is value in some of the teachings, regardless of where they came from, but let's remember, we're still dealing with people's interpretations, not an objective "Word" that JL thinks he can move over the world. He's moving words that wiggle like worms.
A quick trip to the public library or to Google to check the aisles containing works on theology and Biblical interpretation shows you that the matter of "the Word" is not so simple. Knowledge on these topics is readily available.
Cheers!
Pen
"I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo
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penworks
This video is lovely, inspiring, and reports on an important undertaking for the people who need those amazing bridges. It seems a clever analogy if you still think the mirage of VP's "Word" is real, but it is ridiculous of JL to claim the story "parallels what we are to be doing with the Word." That is propaganda, and it isn't even very good propaganda IMO.
Call me overly analytical, but for the analogy to be a good one, I suspect there would need to be one undeniably clear (to everyone on the planet) interpretation of what "the Word" is and what it says, if "The Word" refers to the Bible (which Bible is another matter).
News flash to JL: you've oversimplified a complex issue like VP did. In other words, you are digging around in a can of worms, and sorry, but you can't build bridges out of worms. The don't stay still long enough.
Words, yes, even words in Bibles, are wiggly things, and are subject to "private" interpretation the minute a human being reads them. VP's "keys to research" that JL clings to do not create a dependable vine . Why do you think we've got so many Protestant denominations? Why do you think Martin Luther broke away from the Catholics? He interpreted scripture differently ( and a few other reasons).
VP's interpretations which JL promotes, although with some "tweaks", is plagarized from others who were fundamentalists. No doubt there is value in some of the teachings, regardless of where they came from, but let's remember, we're still dealing with people's interpretations, not an objective "Word" that JL thinks he can move over the world. He's moving words that wiggle like worms.
A quick trip to the public library or to Google to check the aisles containing works on theology and Biblical interpretation shows you that the matter of "the Word" is not so simple. Knowledge on these topics is readily available.
Cheers!
Pen
"I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect, has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo
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socks
Yeh, in order to get something, a thing done, there needs to be a clear 'vision' of what it is and the result NEEDS TO BE MEASURABLE.
Building bridges is measurable. When you're done there's a bridge. What's a bridge do? Provide ACCESS for those who want to get to the other side.
I never met a metaphor I didn't like but it has to fit in some way that "rings true". jALs could, if he didn't mention WOW. WOW was/is too loose of an idea
to work with to make his point.
Which may really be....
"if you know what I'm talking about you'll get it and if you don't you're one of the ones who dropped off the back of the truck and it's sad and I feel bad for you.
Watch this video and I'll feel better knowing you did".
WOW was a good banner ad, a "big idea" that can capture a lot of ideas and movement. But it needs specificity to get moving on the road. "The idea" of it works on too many levels
and it can mean many many different things, even to those of us who were in the Way when Jal was. Who jal is talking about is curious too............
As a distant observer only of jaL's efforts since leaving the Way he seems to be a great example of life's peaks and valleys, up one year, down the next.
I know life is that way, I'm not pointing fingers - and when criticized even I, socks, can take it to be an attack, even when it's meant well
and has value...so it wouldn't surprise me if jaL's pre programmed his response to criticism, as I'm sure he's used to getting it by now.
something like - "well, gosh, you're not succeeding if you're not turning over some bee hives, doncha know!", that sort of logic
(which obviously didn't originate from a bee hive keeper)
Life can be rough but geez, he does seem to have a fair amount of 'collateral damage' in his rear view mirror. But as someone once told me -
"my job doesn't come with a rear view mirror".....meaning he didn't waste time looking back or second guessing himself.
He got fired a year later. True story.
But don't look back, keep moving onward and forward and upward, you ol' bridgemakers!
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waysider
Maybe the analogy he was making is that, just like this vine bridge, the roots of his efforts are twisted and inexticable.
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Ham
maybe the lyrics really go..
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waysider
I think Mr. Natural summed it all up quite nicely....
HERE
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Ham
Why don't they read the next verse. Well, why don't they..
OK then..
The copyright is held by Gilmour, Waters and Wright..
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Ham
Gawd.. there are at least two more verses past this..
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Ham
I dunno. It's a good description for a descent into madness..
j.l. showing up with "how about it.. it's da word, remember when.."
It cannot be much different than Syd Barrett showing up at the recording studio twenty years later, a grossly overweight, and a shadow of himself..
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Ham
I dunno. Mr. Natural was only about 120 to 200 micrograms. We need at least three of him to really do something here..
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Ham
excuse my rambling.
honest to god..
I asked one of my colleagues..
maybe I should not say.
This verse is (thanks to Waters and Gimour) for j.l..
Forget threes. Everything good comes in fours..
do we want the fourth verse, or do we not..
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Ham
Christ.. it fits perfectly..
but if you don't want it, or the noise..
well..
most of it is "unplugged"..
sorry if it is too much..
It's like a box of rain..
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waysider
Maybe his loyal followers think he's
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Ham
but what about the fourth verse?
fourth, ha. They labelled it part two..
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Ham
Walters, Wright, Gilmore
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Rejoice
Maybe he should read the book, "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319070801&sr=8-1
It might give us all something to ponder...
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waysider
Uh-oh! Now you've stirred the hornet's nest.
hehehehehe
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Rejoice
Yep...TWI taught me well, didn't they?? I thought that's what we were trained to do! hehehehehe :P
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penworks
IMO this is one of the best reference books on the topic of "biblical research" if you are interested in the actual texts. Which some people call The Word.
Ehrman is providing info to the public that has been circulated among scholars for years and years. If more people understood the history of the book we call The Bible, we might find a way to appreciate it for what it is, not what we wish it were...
Cheers!
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Tzaia
I love Ehrman's books. I read most of them after listening/watching all of his lecture series through TTC.
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JumpinJive
Another thumbs-up for Ehrman's books. They were instrumental in helping me to break free of the haughty fundamentalism taught by TWI and its offshoots. His writings are straightforward and the evidence he presents is overwhelming.
I have found over the past few years that diving into the subjects of textual criticism and the historical Jesus has put a lot of things into perspective for me. I wish I had started sooner!
-JJ
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