OldSkool will probably remember this better than me..
I remember hearing a story a while back about some local kids coming through and causing problems on HQ property, then leaving only to be involved in a fatal car accident or something later the same night. It was spoken of by my friends who worked at HQ in hush-hush tones, implying that the reason they had the accident was because of the attack on HQ - that God gave them over to the Adversary.
How sick is that?
That is very sick!I know when I was still involved alot of wayfers talked s#!t about God giving people over to the adversary,if they somehow wronged the "ministry".
I remember one incident where a nice lady decided not to attend a weekend long limb meeting,nice lady got in a car accident while limb meeting was going on and got injured,the branch coordinator said the accident happened because she did not go to the limb meeting.
Oh, good Lord! I used to know several of the safety guys and they would get chewed out for not being in the right place at the right time to catch drive-bys. Reasoning was the same ole drivel - "God would have told you to be there so you were obviously not listening." And that crap came right down from the top sometimes. Rosie leans on Linder pretty darn hard about silly stuff such as this. And yes, she really believes she is spiritually responsible for the functioning body of Christ here in this world. And as such is at the top of the adversaries list of Christians to attack.
AHH YES...The old "God tried to tell you but,you were not listening".
News flash morons it's up to God when He talks to you.
It's funny I never heard this lie until I went way disciple,Heard it from a apprentice corps couple.
Question for you - does TWI have a rule that they can only use that specific font on all signage?
I can't say, but it's like any other horrible thing they produce. People with talent put it together and it goes to Rosalie, who is quite talentless and has no real experience in so many of the fields she micromanages, and voila! Utter garbage is made out of something that could have been really nice. Way productions, et al.
It's funny I never heard this lie until I went way disciple,Heard it from a apprentice corps couple.
I dunno why, but apprentice corps (in my humble opinion) seem to be little napoleons running around during way disciple making life miserable for everyone else during the program. And when they go in-residence all many of them can talk about was how great their exploits were when they were TEAM COORDINATOR....
Here's what I'm trying to understand.... Supposedly, the top dog of TWI, be it VPW, LCM or RR, "stands in the gap" to protect the household/country/world/whatever from the evil attacks of "the adversary" but they can't keep one little 2-lane road safe, in the middle of Podunk, Ohio. Huh?? For that matter, if they're really "standing in the gap", why would they even need a security force?
Indeed.
It's a public access road. I suppose as the owners of property on it they have a right to secure it. Local Blokels aside, making it part of the security beat and following every car that shows up going down it....? That's a real pare o' noids they're running there.
They named a road after the guy??? Sounds like a little bit of worship.
I don't think the road was name after VP Wierwille. I always assumed (as many roads in Ohio are) that it was originally named after the family that had a farm there. In other words, it was called Wierwille Rd. before VP was born. I could be wrong but is a common practice in rural areas.
Yes, as Broken Arrow stated, that is a very common practice in rural Ohio. Some of these roads with family names go clear back in time to when there was nothing else on the road except the family's farmland. But, as the roads became dedicated, they retained the same names.
Oldskool, you made me think about organizational models. Years ago I knew little about them but got interested through what's in Ephesians and then over the years learned more about them in business contexts. The two basic business models are "Organizational" and "Functional", where the former stresses process and a hierarchical grouping and reporting structure and the latter stresses grouping like kinds of disciplines and work together that reports within itself and works cross-organizationally to do work. There's often a primary "straight" line of reporting in a business, accompanied by a "dotted" line secondary reporting relationship and these can have either the Organizational or Functional model dominant. There are other models and hybrid forms of each and all but usually one is predominant.
After some time I realized that the Way uses what it considers a "biblical" Organizational model, with responsibility and accountability working up and down from the top to the bottom, where the top layer governs from the top, to all layers. This is modeled after their interpretation of what Ephesians states where there's a "head" and members "in particular" and God "working in all", "through Christ" and then "ruling" gift ministries and what might be called "special dispensations" of ministries as VPW felt he had. ("The Word....like it hasn't been known since", etc. )
Which reads right the first few times but in practice, on the ground now you would not have a "head" "man of God" or embedded position of a primary leader through whom directives come that govern the day to day activities of the members, as God and Christ work "in all" all the time - the relationship is one - to - one. It could be described as God sees all the members through one line of sight but the individuals see God through many lines of sight, each their own. The only intermediate level isn't between them (Christ) but exists to have provided the means for the one-to-one relationship to occur.
So - Ephesians describes a Functional model that gets it's juice through a very simple Organizational structure. In business contexts it's very stripped down and lean, not a million meetings with Upper Management to determine if it's okay to spend a dollar or go forward with a task and then reporting back in triplicate to everyone for review and approval. The Ephesians model of the Church is lean and mean and appears designed to be a kind of interim plan and which will support the "body" concept through transition and fit with the future end-game.
Dunno - just thoughts. The NT Epistles have become a happy hunting ground to prop up every new paradigm that comes along (The Way Tree being one of them) but I don't think that anything that's set forth hard and fast and "the only way" to run the Church is going to be correct if it supersedes the direct-path relationship each person has with God, through Christ.
What's "simple"? and why would anything have to be simple?
"Never" covers a lot of ground.
I don't think that all of known time populated by individuals who choose independently of each other qualifies as simple, but once that's accepted and the fact that the seemingly endless range of possibilities of everyone having done whatever they did within that range of time has already occurred it does fit into a quantity less then infinite so it can at least be looked at and observed albeit with limited scope ("me", "you" "now") and even projected ahead.
Here's what I'm trying to understand.... Supposedly, the top dog of TWI, be it VPW, LCM or RR, "stands in the gap" to protect the household/country/world/whatever from the evil attacks of "the adversary" but they can't keep one little 2-lane road safe, in the middle of Podunk, Ohio. Huh?? For that matter, if they're really "standing in the gap", why would they even need a security force?
I hate to be a TWI "apologist," but it's not unprecedented for men of God to use armed force as a deterrent. David's army, Nehemiah's wall (with armed builders). Even Paul used a Roman cohort to thwart an assasination attempt.
I really doubt that there's anyone out there mad enough at TWI to do serious harm, but you never know.
I hate to be a TWI "apologist," but it's not unprecedented for men of God to use armed force as a deterrent. David's army, Nehemiah's wall (with armed builders). Even Paul used a Roman cohort to thwart an assasination attempt.
I really doubt that there's anyone out there mad enough at TWI to do serious harm, but you never know.
George
I would not classify Rosie and the gang as "men of God." Too much putrid fruit to put them in with the likes of David.
I wouldn't either, of course. But the question was "if they stand in the gap, why do they need security forces?". My point was that several men who "stood in the gap" relied on armed might, at times, to do so.
I wouldn't either, of course. But the question was "if they stand in the gap, why do they need security forces?". My point was that several men who "stood in the gap" relied on armed might, at times, to do so.
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OldSkool
Well, with all the rainbow gush, the glowing dove, they are covering Acts 2 in review, and given the current years theme I would say they are working real hard to gas up their followers to get off the
waysider
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
Starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, "the man" comes and takes you away
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frank123lol
Lol.
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mudflaps
That is very sick!I know when I was still involved alot of wayfers talked s#!t about God giving people over to the adversary,if they somehow wronged the "ministry".
I remember one incident where a nice lady decided not to attend a weekend long limb meeting,nice lady got in a car accident while limb meeting was going on and got injured,the branch coordinator said the accident happened because she did not go to the limb meeting.
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mudflaps
AHH YES...The old "God tried to tell you but,you were not listening".
News flash morons it's up to God when He talks to you.
It's funny I never heard this lie until I went way disciple,Heard it from a apprentice corps couple.
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OldSkool
I can't say, but it's like any other horrible thing they produce. People with talent put it together and it goes to Rosalie, who is quite talentless and has no real experience in so many of the fields she micromanages, and voila! Utter garbage is made out of something that could have been really nice. Way productions, et al.
I dunno why, but apprentice corps (in my humble opinion) seem to be little napoleons running around during way disciple making life miserable for everyone else during the program. And when they go in-residence all many of them can talk about was how great their exploits were when they were TEAM COORDINATOR....
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socks
Indeed.
It's a public access road. I suppose as the owners of property on it they have a right to secure it. Local Blokels aside, making it part of the security beat and following every car that shows up going down it....? That's a real pare o' noids they're running there.
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Broken Arrow
I don't think the road was name after VP Wierwille. I always assumed (as many roads in Ohio are) that it was originally named after the family that had a farm there. In other words, it was called Wierwille Rd. before VP was born. I could be wrong but is a common practice in rural areas.
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waysider
Yes, as Broken Arrow stated, that is a very common practice in rural Ohio. Some of these roads with family names go clear back in time to when there was nothing else on the road except the family's farmland. But, as the roads became dedicated, they retained the same names.
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socks
Skeetering on to the off topic thats' on -
Oldskool, you made me think about organizational models. Years ago I knew little about them but got interested through what's in Ephesians and then over the years learned more about them in business contexts. The two basic business models are "Organizational" and "Functional", where the former stresses process and a hierarchical grouping and reporting structure and the latter stresses grouping like kinds of disciplines and work together that reports within itself and works cross-organizationally to do work. There's often a primary "straight" line of reporting in a business, accompanied by a "dotted" line secondary reporting relationship and these can have either the Organizational or Functional model dominant. There are other models and hybrid forms of each and all but usually one is predominant.
After some time I realized that the Way uses what it considers a "biblical" Organizational model, with responsibility and accountability working up and down from the top to the bottom, where the top layer governs from the top, to all layers. This is modeled after their interpretation of what Ephesians states where there's a "head" and members "in particular" and God "working in all", "through Christ" and then "ruling" gift ministries and what might be called "special dispensations" of ministries as VPW felt he had. ("The Word....like it hasn't been known since", etc. )
Which reads right the first few times but in practice, on the ground now you would not have a "head" "man of God" or embedded position of a primary leader through whom directives come that govern the day to day activities of the members, as God and Christ work "in all" all the time - the relationship is one - to - one. It could be described as God sees all the members through one line of sight but the individuals see God through many lines of sight, each their own. The only intermediate level isn't between them (Christ) but exists to have provided the means for the one-to-one relationship to occur.
So - Ephesians describes a Functional model that gets it's juice through a very simple Organizational structure. In business contexts it's very stripped down and lean, not a million meetings with Upper Management to determine if it's okay to spend a dollar or go forward with a task and then reporting back in triplicate to everyone for review and approval. The Ephesians model of the Church is lean and mean and appears designed to be a kind of interim plan and which will support the "body" concept through transition and fit with the future end-game.
Dunno - just thoughts. The NT Epistles have become a happy hunting ground to prop up every new paradigm that comes along (The Way Tree being one of them) but I don't think that anything that's set forth hard and fast and "the only way" to run the Church is going to be correct if it supersedes the direct-path relationship each person has with God, through Christ.
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Ham
what if everything isn't that simple..
it really never is.
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socks
What's "everything"?
What's "simple"? and why would anything have to be simple?
"Never" covers a lot of ground.
I don't think that all of known time populated by individuals who choose independently of each other qualifies as simple, but once that's accepted and the fact that the seemingly endless range of possibilities of everyone having done whatever they did within that range of time has already occurred it does fit into a quantity less then infinite so it can at least be looked at and observed albeit with limited scope ("me", "you" "now") and even projected ahead.
Always simple, no.
Never not simple - no.
Put another way............"it is what it is".
But it isn't what it isn't.
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Ham
What is simple..
well it is simple to me.
I once observed a fellow teaching basic math at the place I got the degree..
yep.
this teacher(?) taught basic math..
this character only viewed the whiteboard. Never really talked to the students.
of course the presentation was flawless. He never made a mistake.. never an error..
lecture was monotone.
The students were sitting there, drooling on their books and papers..
no, that will never be me in front of a class.. no, never..
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waysider
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frank123lol
Ham,with your unique sense of humor it will indeed be a interesting class.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I hate to be a TWI "apologist," but it's not unprecedented for men of God to use armed force as a deterrent. David's army, Nehemiah's wall (with armed builders). Even Paul used a Roman cohort to thwart an assasination attempt.
I really doubt that there's anyone out there mad enough at TWI to do serious harm, but you never know.
George
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OldSkool
I would not classify Rosie and the gang as "men of God." Too much putrid fruit to put them in with the likes of David.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I wouldn't either, of course. But the question was "if they stand in the gap, why do they need security forces?". My point was that several men who "stood in the gap" relied on armed might, at times, to do so.
George
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OldSkool
Cool, good point.
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