...and yet, there are folks in twi and ex-twiers who pant after another teaching. Ummmm....why not just try to live what one already knows?
Right. After all Jesus said he would not leave us as orphans. Not that one shouldn't have communion with others (humans need other humans) but we certainly shouldn't have to jump from one major, money-draining event to another.
A number of years ago a young couple, who were friends of mine, asked me to attend a business oportunity meeting they were going to present for a small group of people. Their description of what was to be presented was very vague . This vagueness was , of course , intentional. My suspicion was that this would be a recruitment meeting for Axway. The gentleman conducting the meeting stated very early on that there were to be no questions until the end. Sound familiar? Well, as the meeting progressed, he showed how, if Bob recruited Joe, and Joe recruited Betty, And Betty recruited Connie , and Connie RECRUITED----------in the end we would all be filthy rich. People raised their hands to ask questions as he spoke, but he continued to assure everyone all questions would be answered at the end. When he finally revealed that the product this company sold was actually soap, an elderly lady, who seemed harmless enough, raised her hand from the back row. The man running the meeting let down his guard for just a moment and said "yes ma'am?". She immediately stood up and said "Who the hell is supposed to sell the SOAP?' It kind of makes me wonder "who the hell was supposed to LIVE the abundant life?" Not complaining-------just pondering.
Right. After all Jesus said he would not leave us as orphans. Not that one shouldn't have communion with others (humans need other humans) but we certainly shouldn't have to jump from one major, money-draining event to another.
The ever-teaching reality in twi was/is their cornerstone of control. The three pillars of wierwille's ministry....research, teaching and fellowship.... were merely lip-service, and NOT three equal legs to sturdy the stool.
IMO....twi-followers are indoctrinated to pant after every new twi-sanctioned teaching. Manipulation, coercion and intimidation grease the machinergy as the followers, almost trance-like, head to their chairs for another teaching. Today, I find it almost surreal that I lived that "lifestyle."
Perhaps I'm very different that most, but......some of my most memorable times during my twi-tenure were "God-moments," with holy spirit within and the sanctity of that one-ness. That was my zenith of true fellowship and perfect peace.
quote: ......some of my most memorable times during my twi-tenure were "God-moments," with holy spirit within and the sanctity of that one-ness. That was my zenith of true fellowship and perfect peace.
Did any of those "God moments" ever happen during teachings? There were times when I would be listening to a teaching and something would click and for as long as 3-5 minutes I'd screen out everything around me and think about whatever clicked. It was a good thing, IMO. Of course, I never had to worry about LCM and his dreaded squirt gun.
Did any of those "God moments" ever happen during teachings? There were times when I would be listening to a teaching and something would click and for as long as 3-5 minutes I'd screen out everything around me and think about whatever clicked.
Nope.
To me, those "God moments" were the polar opposite of "something would click in a teaching." One is induced by a divine relationship, the other is prodded by the vanity of man.
With regards to twi-teachings, at times.....my mind would cross-reference other teachings and red-flag discrepancies. I started seeing holes and contradictions in 1978, but was too indoctrinated at the time to exit. Of course, I never subscribed to the "man of God of the universe" theory, but weighed in the balance that twi had a majority portion of truth. Although I was correct on the "mog" aspect, I was incorrect on the latter.
In the context of "ever-teaching"......my mind runs to that scripture referencing those who are "ever-learning and never able to come to truth." Who are those "ever-learners?" THEY are boasters, proud, traitors, movers, shakers, lovers of themselves, and leading others astray.
Hmmmm......does that sound like anyone we know?
*****
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all [men], as theirs also was.
2Ti 3:10 ¶ But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of [them] all the Lord delivered me.
*****
Did any of us fully know the VP doctrine? His manner of life? Purpose?
Seems to me, wierwille moved deceptively throughout his life. He stole from others, made false claims, used self-bravado to puff up self, denigrated other church leaders, was not longsuffering or patient, had self-serving purpose to herald wierwille legacy, surrounded himself with women and toys, and surreptiously attempted to be the "man of God of the ages."
You know interestingly enough pondering over that "ever learning and never able to come to the truth" - what that sparks to my mind is all those years of endlessly going over and over and teaching the same stuff - vol. 1 to 5, FNC (PFAL and WAP), class series, every year the JCOP/JCPS.
When you think about it Rosie's definition of research as "re-search - searching out again for ourselves that which has been proven" is really exactly that - ever learning and never able to come to the truth.
Also their frame of reference for truth is "that which has been previously published". They are worshipping man's thoughts, not God and His Word.
Also their frame of reference for truth is "that which has been previously published". They are worshipping man's thoughts, not God and His Word.
I found a similar thing happened among several offshoots, especially CES. At first they were very willing to change positions on doctrine they had inherited from TWI, but once they had published something of their own, then the version of what they had written was off limits from further consideration or discussion. That was one of my biggest disappointments with the offshoots I've experienced.
You know interestingly enough pondering over that "ever learning and never able to come to the truth" - what that sparks to my mind is all those years of endlessly going over and over and teaching the same stuff - vol. 1 to 5, FNC (PFAL and WAP), class series, every year the JCOP/JCPS.
When you think about it Rosie's definition of research as "re-search - searching out again for ourselves that which has been proven" is really exactly that - ever learning and never able to come to the truth.
Also their frame of reference for truth is "that which has been previously published". They are worshipping man's thoughts, not God and His Word.
Absolutely.
That's why they are TRAITORS....guilty of betraying the scriptural truth.
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Did any of us fully know the VP doctrine? His manner of life? Purpose?
Seems to me, wierwille moved deceptively throughout his life. He stole from others, made false claims, used self-bravado to puff up self, denigrated other church leaders, was not longsuffering or patient, had self-serving purpose to herald wierwille legacy, surrounded himself with women and toys, and surreptiously attempted to be the "man of God of the ages."
<_<
Nope.
He was an abusive alcoholic father figure and we all learned some serious codependency skills. It was all so messed up.
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Broken Arrow
Right. After all Jesus said he would not leave us as orphans. Not that one shouldn't have communion with others (humans need other humans) but we certainly shouldn't have to jump from one major, money-draining event to another.
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waysider
REPOST
Posted 29 July 2006 - 08:42 PM
A number of years ago a young couple, who were friends of mine, asked me to attend a business oportunity meeting they were going to present for a small group of people. Their description of what was to be presented was very vague . This vagueness was , of course , intentional. My suspicion was that this would be a recruitment meeting for Axway. The gentleman conducting the meeting stated very early on that there were to be no questions until the end. Sound familiar? Well, as the meeting progressed, he showed how, if Bob recruited Joe, and Joe recruited Betty, And Betty recruited Connie , and Connie RECRUITED----------in the end we would all be filthy rich. People raised their hands to ask questions as he spoke, but he continued to assure everyone all questions would be answered at the end. When he finally revealed that the product this company sold was actually soap, an elderly lady, who seemed harmless enough, raised her hand from the back row. The man running the meeting let down his guard for just a moment and said "yes ma'am?". She immediately stood up and said "Who the hell is supposed to sell the SOAP?' It kind of makes me wonder "who the hell was supposed to LIVE the abundant life?" Not complaining-------just pondering.
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skyrider
The ever-teaching reality in twi was/is their cornerstone of control. The three pillars of wierwille's ministry....research, teaching and fellowship.... were merely lip-service, and NOT three equal legs to sturdy the stool.
IMO....twi-followers are indoctrinated to pant after every new twi-sanctioned teaching. Manipulation, coercion and intimidation grease the machinergy as the followers, almost trance-like, head to their chairs for another teaching. Today, I find it almost surreal that I lived that "lifestyle."
Perhaps I'm very different that most, but......some of my most memorable times during my twi-tenure were "God-moments," with holy spirit within and the sanctity of that one-ness. That was my zenith of true fellowship and perfect peace.
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johniam
quote: ......some of my most memorable times during my twi-tenure were "God-moments," with holy spirit within and the sanctity of that one-ness. That was my zenith of true fellowship and perfect peace.
Did any of those "God moments" ever happen during teachings? There were times when I would be listening to a teaching and something would click and for as long as 3-5 minutes I'd screen out everything around me and think about whatever clicked. It was a good thing, IMO. Of course, I never had to worry about LCM and his dreaded squirt gun.
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skyrider
Nope.
To me, those "God moments" were the polar opposite of "something would click in a teaching." One is induced by a divine relationship, the other is prodded by the vanity of man.
With regards to twi-teachings, at times.....my mind would cross-reference other teachings and red-flag discrepancies. I started seeing holes and contradictions in 1978, but was too indoctrinated at the time to exit. Of course, I never subscribed to the "man of God of the universe" theory, but weighed in the balance that twi had a majority portion of truth. Although I was correct on the "mog" aspect, I was incorrect on the latter.
What a ride.
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skyrider
In the context of "ever-teaching"......my mind runs to that scripture referencing those who are "ever-learning and never able to come to truth." Who are those "ever-learners?" THEY are boasters, proud, traitors, movers, shakers, lovers of themselves, and leading others astray.
Hmmmm......does that sound like anyone we know?
*****
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all [men], as theirs also was.
2Ti 3:10 ¶ But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of [them] all the Lord delivered me.
*****
Did any of us fully know the VP doctrine? His manner of life? Purpose?
Seems to me, wierwille moved deceptively throughout his life. He stole from others, made false claims, used self-bravado to puff up self, denigrated other church leaders, was not longsuffering or patient, had self-serving purpose to herald wierwille legacy, surrounded himself with women and toys, and surreptiously attempted to be the "man of God of the ages."
<_<
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chockfull
You know interestingly enough pondering over that "ever learning and never able to come to the truth" - what that sparks to my mind is all those years of endlessly going over and over and teaching the same stuff - vol. 1 to 5, FNC (PFAL and WAP), class series, every year the JCOP/JCPS.
When you think about it Rosie's definition of research as "re-search - searching out again for ourselves that which has been proven" is really exactly that - ever learning and never able to come to the truth.
Also their frame of reference for truth is "that which has been previously published". They are worshipping man's thoughts, not God and His Word.
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Steve Lortz
I found a similar thing happened among several offshoots, especially CES. At first they were very willing to change positions on doctrine they had inherited from TWI, but once they had published something of their own, then the version of what they had written was off limits from further consideration or discussion. That was one of my biggest disappointments with the offshoots I've experienced.
Love,
Steve
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skyrider
Absolutely.
That's why they are TRAITORS....guilty of betraying the scriptural truth.
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
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geisha779
Nope.
He was an abusive alcoholic father figure and we all learned some serious codependency skills. It was all so messed up.
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