my admittedly traditional understanding of that passage is that Christ was prophesying about the giving of holy spirit that would be available after his Ascension.
On Pentecost, the Apostles received holy spirit in a manner unprecedented. Before, it had been given in portions and conditionally. As you know, Elijah received "a double portion" of the spirit that had been on Elijah energizing his ministry.
King Saul is said to have lost the anointing of the holy spirit that God had given.
Jesus was prophesying that, after his departure, God would give his follower the holy spirit unconditionally and without limits. Which was received and manifested by the Apostles on Pentecost when they spoke in tongues. THAT manifestation, also unheard of prior to that day is the Comfort because it's one that can be produced at will by the believer and it reminds us that we are saved, that Christ is risen, that we have eternal life. That's the comfort.
I know your interpretation of the term spirit is much broader than that, so this may not make sense to you. But that's the way I "understand" it, and practice it.
and the thousands of others that are recorded manifesting the Holy Spirit the Christ as mentioned in Peter
besides the ones that are not recorded and even mentioned
there are also references to cities unfound to date
with Followers of CHRIST before Jesus was born of Mary
Christ the first and last
21(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
1For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Yes I know the doctrine you speak of Jerry.
I don't buy it, especially the part where we have to do something to get something from god. bs.
With all due respect to you Jerry, I don't think you see it the way the way taught it either.
Have we seen the Holy Spirit working in men and women as recorded in the old testament?
Could we walk and talk with the likes of Solomon and Abraham and Joshua and David and Shadrack, Meshack, and Abindigo(sp)and the many thousands who walked IN the Spirit?
One asked Jesus how to obtain eternal life.
13Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
15And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Not trying to pick a fight, Jerry, I hope you know that.
Anyway here's the Peter reference.
1 Peter 1:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
And maybe get some these more learned greek and such folk involved in looking at this stuff.
Cause the bible does seem to say different things, but is it about the same things.
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
So I contradict myself even...lol...
Set me on a good path, is a good prayer I do for me.
if I had to count anyone out of eternal life
i'd have to include myself
I just don't think anyone will be left out
but that all have already been included,
from before the beginning in a 'system', for lack of a better word,
the first was Jesus Christ the son of God was the first comforter that die for us
the other comforter or another comforter was our seed of our spirit in us which is not the begotten son of God but us our spirit of us ourself, our-seed, our-christ, our new man
Moses had the same thing that Elijah, David and all the Old Testament saints had; holy spirit upon them with limitations. It was a powerful anointing. Moses spoke very clearly of this, as recorded in Numbers chapter 11:25 - 29
And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that [was] upon him, and gave [it] unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, [that], when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
Please note that God gave the elders some of the spirit that was upon Moses. This language implies a limited anointing. None of them had as much as Moses did, nor did their anointing come directly from God. This reinforces the notion of a limited portion.
11:26 But there remained two [of the] men in the camp, the name of the one [was] Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they [were] of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.
11:27 And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.
11:28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, [one] of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.
11:29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, [and] that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!
Moses said it was God's will for all his people to be prophets. But obviously, they weren't. So again, this says to me that not everyone in Israel had spirit upon them. It also reinforces the connection between between the anointing of holy spirit and prophesy. Many in Israel loved the Lord God and were honest, upright, decent folks. But they did not have, nor did they manifest holy spirit.
and the thousands of others that are recorded manifesting the Holy Spirit the Christ as mentioned in Peter besides the ones that are not recorded and even mentioned
there are also references to cities unfound to date with Followers of CHRIST before Jesus was born of Mary
Christ the first and last
21(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
1For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Yes I know the doctrine you speak of Jerry.
I don't buy it, especially the part where we have to do something to get something from god. bs.
Sorry, but that's the way it was before Christ redeemed us. Why do you think we needed a redeemer? The coming and work of Christ rewrote the rules, changed the spiritual landscape. I don't think anyone here has even a partial understanding of the impact and import of the work Christ did.
With all due respect to you Jerry, I don't think you see it the way the way taught it either.
Have we seen the Holy Spirit working in men and women as recorded in the old testament?
Could we walk and talk with the likes of Solomon and Abraham and Joshua and David and Shadrack, Meshack, and Abindigo(sp)and the many thousands who walked IN the Spirit?
I appreciate that Clay, but I think it misses the point. Have we seen power manifested on the level of that shown by the Old Testament saints? No. But I could also ask, have we seen power manifested on the level of that shown by Peter and Paul after Pentecost? Have any of us seen people healed by the passing shadow of a man of God? No. So comparing the Biblical record to modern life--more accurately, to our limited knowledge of what happens today, since none of us has a comprehensive understanding of what all God's ministers are doing in the world today--is a moot point. The correct comparison is not between us and Solomon, but between Solomon and Paul, between Shadrach and Peter, Abednego and Phillip the Evangelist.
That comparison shows us that the Old Testament saints did indeed have an anointing that was limited, as noted above. There is no reference anywhere in the New Testament of God taking spirit from one believer to give it to another. It is always depicted as coming straight from heaven to the believer. And portions are never mentioned. Phillip is not said to have received a portion of the spirit that was upon Peter. God did not take from the spirit that was upon Peter to anoint Cornelius and his household.
More importantly to the topic at hand, there is no reference in the Old Testament to a believer being able to manifest holy spirit at will.. They did so according to God's timetable, with God's permission. Attempts to operate as a prophet outside God's will could cause calamity, as seen with Saul, who did so and lost the anointing. (I Samuel, chapter 13).
We, on the other hand, can manifest holy spirit at will, even if we do so contrary to the stated will of God! I Corinthians 14 attests to this. That is the definition of amazing grace and cannot be found anywhere in the Old Testament.
One asked Jesus how to obtain eternal life.
13Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
15And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
The man already had it!
I respectfully disagree. He did not have eternal life. He had kept the law, but he didn't have eternal life because he had missed the point of the law, which was to lead him to the Messiah. The Messiah stood before him and said "follow me". Instead of sacrificing his worldly wealth to follow the Messiah, the literally man walked back to his earthly possessions.
Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Hence the famous proclamation, "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God!"
This touches on a different topic; the convoluted body of Scripture regarding salvation and eternal life. I say convoluted because the NT is split on this topic with lots of Scripture saying salvation is by grace and lots of scripture--including Matthew 19--saying it's by works. So let's set this aside and focus on the Comforter; on the differences between how holy spirit was given and manifested before Christ came and how it was given and manifested after his ascension.
More importantly to the topic at hand, there is no reference in the Old Testament to a believer being able to manifest holy spirit at will.. They did so according to God's timetable, with God's permission.
And not so much disagreeing but it's always by God's will.
We don't operate the manifestations of the spirit by our will, never seen it done.
But as the spirit wills they are manifested.
A big (one of the biggest) screw up by twi teachings is that we operate the spirit.
in my opinion
Sure god works in us, but by his will in us.
Some times we don't even see it ourselves, when it's happening in us.
Else I'd be doing some things different today.
Maybe you agree with some of that.
------
So anyway 'another', I'm thinking, is the door for more opened perhaps that communicates.
Yes waysider, good point, and perhaps not to define, if that's even possible.
But to get a glimpse of it, understand it at least in part.
I think we need shown by God/HS/Christ, whatever you want call it.
That is easy to see, but harder to put in words.
So in comes tongues that the spirit speaks and hears,
lighting the fires of understanding and sight, with wisdom.
Had a thought about God creating male and female,
you know in Gen, the spirit side of male and female.
Perhaps the old testament was about the male mostly, and the new, the female.
Both still together in the old and new covenants.
As Jerry pointed out there is some different rules in play now.
I see what you mean about not being able to "define" it cman. It was the only word I could think of at the moment, though I know it's not a 100% representation of what I was trying to say.
You said:
"perhaps not to define, if that's even possible.
But to get a glimpse of it, understand it at least in part"
Yes, I think that's closer to what I meant. I'll throw a musical analogy in here and hope it's not too obtuse..... In Symphonic Form, the first thing stated is the theme(s). (Think Beethoven's 5th Symphony) These themes establish a reference point. Then, the themes are expressed, in the developmental section, in altered forms that are called "variations". Eventually, the themes are restated as a means of resolving the piece. Lots of jazz works the same way, though jazz musicians usually call the theme the "head".
So, what I'm getting at is that it wouldn't make much musical sense to launch into an improvisation of, let's say,
, without first establishing/defining the "head" as a reference point.
So, for one to more fully understand/appreciate "another" of any given thing, one must first gain at least some understanding of the original.
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year2027
God first
thanks cman
another comforter is the Christ in you
the seed inside of you
the sprit life growing in you
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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cman
Now see this is the problem or chance to learn I reckon.
All these phrases
Christ in you
seed inside
spirit life growing.
What does this all mean, can it be observed from the inside or out?
Certainly I don't think there is anyone above anyone else,
spirit type in you stuff,
we all have gifts.
Can it be measured?
Should we even try to?
I don't think so.
But I do look for spiritual words and stuff.
Seen them lots of times, can't prove it to no one but others who see it too.
Or they know such things actually exist.
Anyway, another Comforter......
what was the other one?
1st question that comes to mind to me
seems there was one then another
and I think both are still happening today
and will for each and every person
that's my thoughts and 'measure' of the matter...so far...
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cman
then again, is there only one
I believe it says the comforter is the holy spirit
that's always been around
so what would 'another' be saying
growth?
from seed to sprout and more
is any one stage better then the other
concerning life?
and this god creates the seed/or whatever/spirit in us from twi is guess work at best
I think we come with it from the beginning.
Not by something we do or don't do.
if the seed is spirit
so is the sprout
and the full tree
with every root and person connected to the system
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year2027
God first
thanks Cman
yes my friend it can not be measure fleshly things it can only be measure in itself or the growth in you the spirit of Christ in me or you
it a one on measurement of our inner self the Christ that in us that birth that has happen to us
it is always in me
in you too
even the puff up fool of when we were in the cult the Way ministry
that was ourself at a time in our history of life
what I learn today is not the same I learn tomorrow
the spark changes as life changes for me and you
the holy spirit grows as I mature in Christ as I get more like the Christ that first came in my life
we are maturing into the child of God that we were in the beginning
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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cman
the spirit was in you before birth
else it could not be born
but that is not the essence of 'another'
at least I don't think so
hell, someone argue with me :)
could it mean something I missed
of course I haven't said much...
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year2027
God first
thanks Cman
it was awaken by the love of Christ that when became a new creation of child of God
we are the Christ in ourself
a news Christ
a new creature
our Comforter was sent By Christ for God we are the comforter
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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cman
I don't see what you are saying here.
The topic is another comforter.
What was the other one.
What is 'another comforter'.
Simple question.
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Jbarrax
CMAN,
my admittedly traditional understanding of that passage is that Christ was prophesying about the giving of holy spirit that would be available after his Ascension.
On Pentecost, the Apostles received holy spirit in a manner unprecedented. Before, it had been given in portions and conditionally. As you know, Elijah received "a double portion" of the spirit that had been on Elijah energizing his ministry.
King Saul is said to have lost the anointing of the holy spirit that God had given.
Jesus was prophesying that, after his departure, God would give his follower the holy spirit unconditionally and without limits. Which was received and manifested by the Apostles on Pentecost when they spoke in tongues. THAT manifestation, also unheard of prior to that day is the Comfort because it's one that can be produced at will by the believer and it reminds us that we are saved, that Christ is risen, that we have eternal life. That's the comfort.
I know your interpretation of the term spirit is much broader than that, so this may not make sense to you. But that's the way I "understand" it, and practice it.
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cman
and what did Moses get, a rock? That all?
and the thousands of others that are recorded manifesting the Holy Spirit the Christ as mentioned in Peter
besides the ones that are not recorded and even mentioned
there are also references to cities unfound to date
with Followers of CHRIST before Jesus was born of Mary
Christ the first and last
21(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
1For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Yes I know the doctrine you speak of Jerry.
I don't buy it, especially the part where we have to do something to get something from god. bs.
With all due respect to you Jerry, I don't think you see it the way the way taught it either.
Have we seen the Holy Spirit working in men and women as recorded in the old testament?
Could we walk and talk with the likes of Solomon and Abraham and Joshua and David and Shadrack, Meshack, and Abindigo(sp)and the many thousands who walked IN the Spirit?
One asked Jesus how to obtain eternal life.
13Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
15And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
The man already had it!
Jesus wanted him to do something with it.
btw, thanks for your input, it's needed....
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cman
Not trying to pick a fight, Jerry, I hope you know that.
Anyway here's the Peter reference.
1 Peter 1:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
And maybe get some these more learned greek and such folk involved in looking at this stuff.
Cause the bible does seem to say different things, but is it about the same things.
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
So I contradict myself even...lol...
Set me on a good path, is a good prayer I do for me.
if I had to count anyone out of eternal life
i'd have to include myself
I just don't think anyone will be left out
but that all have already been included,
from before the beginning in a 'system', for lack of a better word,
of eternal life and all the journeys take place.
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faith no more
it's irrelevant is what it is.
the bible is crap. just a collection of mythology.
discard it and find something real you can believe in.
i did and i'm much better off now.
fairy tales are for children.
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year2027
God first
thanks cman
the first was Jesus Christ the son of God was the first comforter that die for us
the other comforter or another comforter was our seed of our spirit in us which is not the begotten son of God but us our spirit of us ourself, our-seed, our-christ, our new man
the truth unity of truth
with love and a holy kiss from Roy
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cman
please start your on thread, if you want, on your post content, faith no more, or try to stay near the topic
thanks
it's not irrelevant to me
it says another
so what was the other one
and mythology is a great catalyst for truth
yes I am a child
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year2027
God first
thanks faith no more
will I believe in fairy tales and I am a child of God
I am Atheist and I am a believer
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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cman
i still can't grasp what you are saying, i understand you, year, but Christ the seed
is and has always been here in us, after it's 'kind'
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year2027
God first
thanks cman
you are the another coming to realized what you are
cman is the another comforter
Roy is the another comforter
Todd is the another comforter
we comforter each other
it that simple
God send us to ourself
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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cman
that makes some sense, Roy, to me
has this always been around
do you think JC was speaking of himself? as the 'other'
as opposed to 'another' haha...
is there another story here? :)
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year2027
God first
thanks cman
Jesus Christ was speaking of his living flesh and our dead spirit that he was going quicken it
awake in Christ has ourselves
but do not take it has truth I am learning as we talk
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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cman
hm, i don't agree with that,
no dead spirits i know of....Christ is alive asleep or awake
but to
is real enough
to wakeup Christ even, asleep but not dead
to some it is to awaken the serpent, another spirit, same Christ
i don't agree about the common assessment of fleshly things as some do
everything is pure to the pure
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year2027
God first
thanks cman
Christ flesh was killed by us mankind
that what we in have unity with Christ
we were dying in our sins Christ die because we nail to a tree
Christ spirit never die but our spirit die that very day spiritual until Christ made it alive by Christ's fleshly death making us spirit life again
with love and a holy kiss Roy
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waysider
As with anything, you have to define the original before you can fully understand the alternative.
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Jbarrax
Moses had the same thing that Elijah, David and all the Old Testament saints had; holy spirit upon them with limitations. It was a powerful anointing. Moses spoke very clearly of this, as recorded in Numbers chapter 11:25 - 29
And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that [was] upon him, and gave [it] unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, [that], when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
Please note that God gave the elders some of the spirit that was upon Moses. This language implies a limited anointing. None of them had as much as Moses did, nor did their anointing come directly from God. This reinforces the notion of a limited portion.
11:26 But there remained two [of the] men in the camp, the name of the one [was] Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they [were] of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.
11:27 And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.
11:28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, [one] of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.
11:29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, [and] that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!
Moses said it was God's will for all his people to be prophets. But obviously, they weren't. So again, this says to me that not everyone in Israel had spirit upon them. It also reinforces the connection between between the anointing of holy spirit and prophesy. Many in Israel loved the Lord God and were honest, upright, decent folks. But they did not have, nor did they manifest holy spirit.
Sorry, but that's the way it was before Christ redeemed us. Why do you think we needed a redeemer? The coming and work of Christ rewrote the rules, changed the spiritual landscape. I don't think anyone here has even a partial understanding of the impact and import of the work Christ did.
I appreciate that Clay, but I think it misses the point. Have we seen power manifested on the level of that shown by the Old Testament saints? No. But I could also ask, have we seen power manifested on the level of that shown by Peter and Paul after Pentecost? Have any of us seen people healed by the passing shadow of a man of God? No. So comparing the Biblical record to modern life--more accurately, to our limited knowledge of what happens today, since none of us has a comprehensive understanding of what all God's ministers are doing in the world today--is a moot point. The correct comparison is not between us and Solomon, but between Solomon and Paul, between Shadrach and Peter, Abednego and Phillip the Evangelist.
That comparison shows us that the Old Testament saints did indeed have an anointing that was limited, as noted above. There is no reference anywhere in the New Testament of God taking spirit from one believer to give it to another. It is always depicted as coming straight from heaven to the believer. And portions are never mentioned. Phillip is not said to have received a portion of the spirit that was upon Peter. God did not take from the spirit that was upon Peter to anoint Cornelius and his household.
More importantly to the topic at hand, there is no reference in the Old Testament to a believer being able to manifest holy spirit at will.. They did so according to God's timetable, with God's permission. Attempts to operate as a prophet outside God's will could cause calamity, as seen with Saul, who did so and lost the anointing. (I Samuel, chapter 13).
We, on the other hand, can manifest holy spirit at will, even if we do so contrary to the stated will of God! I Corinthians 14 attests to this. That is the definition of amazing grace and cannot be found anywhere in the Old Testament.
I respectfully disagree. He did not have eternal life. He had kept the law, but he didn't have eternal life because he had missed the point of the law, which was to lead him to the Messiah. The Messiah stood before him and said "follow me". Instead of sacrificing his worldly wealth to follow the Messiah, the literally man walked back to his earthly possessions.
Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Hence the famous proclamation, "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God!"
This touches on a different topic; the convoluted body of Scripture regarding salvation and eternal life. I say convoluted because the NT is split on this topic with lots of Scripture saying salvation is by grace and lots of scripture--including Matthew 19--saying it's by works. So let's set this aside and focus on the Comforter; on the differences between how holy spirit was given and manifested before Christ came and how it was given and manifested after his ascension.
God Bless!
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cman
Thanks for replying Jerry and all.
I'll let your post set without my thinking,
with the exception of this.
And not so much disagreeing but it's always by God's will.
We don't operate the manifestations of the spirit by our will, never seen it done.
But as the spirit wills they are manifested.
A big (one of the biggest) screw up by twi teachings is that we operate the spirit.
in my opinion
Sure god works in us, but by his will in us.
Some times we don't even see it ourselves, when it's happening in us.
Else I'd be doing some things different today.
Maybe you agree with some of that.
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So anyway 'another', I'm thinking, is the door for more opened perhaps that communicates.
Yes waysider, good point, and perhaps not to define, if that's even possible.
But to get a glimpse of it, understand it at least in part.
I think we need shown by God/HS/Christ, whatever you want call it.
That is easy to see, but harder to put in words.
So in comes tongues that the spirit speaks and hears,
lighting the fires of understanding and sight, with wisdom.
Had a thought about God creating male and female,
you know in Gen, the spirit side of male and female.
Perhaps the old testament was about the male mostly, and the new, the female.
Both still together in the old and new covenants.
As Jerry pointed out there is some different rules in play now.
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waysider
I see what you mean about not being able to "define" it cman. It was the only word I could think of at the moment, though I know it's not a 100% representation of what I was trying to say.
You said:
"perhaps not to define, if that's even possible.
But to get a glimpse of it, understand it at least in part"
Yes, I think that's closer to what I meant. I'll throw a musical analogy in here and hope it's not too obtuse..... In Symphonic Form, the first thing stated is the theme(s). (Think Beethoven's 5th Symphony) These themes establish a reference point. Then, the themes are expressed, in the developmental section, in altered forms that are called "variations". Eventually, the themes are restated as a means of resolving the piece. Lots of jazz works the same way, though jazz musicians usually call the theme the "head".
So, what I'm getting at is that it wouldn't make much musical sense to launch into an improvisation of, let's say,
So, for one to more fully understand/appreciate "another" of any given thing, one must first gain at least some understanding of the original.
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