From TWI's own writeups - Born Again to Serve by Dorothea Kipp Wierwille - p. 67
Doctor of Theology Degree
On July 5, 1948, our family of five began a trip in our new 1948 Chevrolet, given to us by the Wierwille family, to Manitou Springs, Colorado. Rev. Wierwille had been taking correspondence work with Pikes Peak Bible Seminary and Burton College and writing his doctoral dissertation on "Peter the Preacher". By being in attendance at the seminary in Colorado, he was completing his requirements for a Doctor of Theology degree. Students there came from India and China as well as various parts of the United States. Along with taking course work, Rev. Wierwille also taught two classes: "Radio Preaching Techniques" and "Peter the Preacher". On Wednesday, July 28, 1948, he was awarded the Doctor of Theology degree by Pikes Peak Seminary in a ceremony at the Community Congregational Church in Manitou Springs. Immediately after his graduation, the five of us left for Minnesota for the Camp Farthest Out at Lake Koronis. It was a most tremendous and exceptional summer to have our young family experience both occasions.
There are two pictures on the page - one of the front cover of the Commencement agenda, and the second a photo of VPW with Dr. Stuart Hydanus (who later taught at one of our camps). Dr. Ellis Lininger the president of the seminary is in the picture as well. NOTE: There is not a lot of information available on Lininger - other than writeups questioning Wierwille's credentials the only other reference is that he died in 1994 and is buried in Manitou Springs.
So let me get this straight. VPW left Ohio on July 5th, a Monday and probably arrived at Pike's Peak on Wednesday the 7th. He got his doctorate degree on Wednesday the 28th, 15 working days later. And at the same time teaching "Radio Preaching Techniques" and "Peter the Preacher".
A truly rigorous course of study. It's almost as impressive as inventing the hook shot. Or maybe he could only stay as long as his money held out.
So let me get this straight. VPW left Ohio on July 5th, a Monday and probably arrived at Pike's Peak on Wednesday the 7th. He got his doctorate degree on Wednesday the 28th, 15 working days later. And at the same time teaching "Radio Preaching Techniques" and "Peter the Preacher".
A truly rigorous course of study. It's almost as impressive as inventing the hook shot. Or maybe he could only stay as long as his money held out.
Maybe that was the viva voce part, the oral exam, those days there in person?
Off topic, but only a little: Once you claim to have heard God Almighty audibly tell you that He will teach you the Word, why even bother to list your academic achievements? Doesn't having the creator of the heavens and earth as your personal mentor trump the need to explain the source of your smarts?
By being in attendance at the seminary in Colorado, he was completing his requirements for a Doctor of Theology degree.
I'm telling you, Wierwille told my Corps that his doctorate was in homiletics, not theology. I remember because I was slightly surprised. Does anyone else remember hearing him say that? Maybe I dreamed it.
vpw did the same tning with his intentionally-ambiguous claims concerning athletics.
He said he "played basketball" all through college, and was associated with the Sheboygan
Redskins Basketball NBL team. What did honest people conclude?
They thought he was on his college's Varsity Basketball team and that he earned his Varsity
letter on it, and then he went on to become a member of the Sheboygan Redskins.
What was the reality? He was on NEITHER team, and if confronted on it, he TECHNICALLY could
have claimed he never actually SAID he was. However, he intentionally misled everyone by
implying he did, and phrasing things deliberately to suggest he did.
Not that it matters that much, but supposidely one year he was inducted into the college's basketball hall of fame. LCM talked about being at the ceremony when he was inducted. You sure he didn't play on the basketball team? I mean, why lie about that? Then again, stranger things have happened.
vp says he graduated from Mission house College in Sheboygan, WI with a BA in 1938, an Evangelical & Reformed school. It's now called Lakeland College. If they have a hall of fame, he would be a "big fish" in a tiny, puddle-sized pond. I was in Sheboygan a couple weeks ago, I would have checked it out if I'd thought of it.
During the time he said he played pro basketball, he also claimed to have been a full time student, at Mission House until 1938, Mission House Seminary until 1940, Princeton until 1941, when he started as pastor in Ohio.
Why are we suspicious of any of VP's claims?
Because it's already been proven that he lied so many times.
You know, really what does it matter, other than warning others of the evils of The Way, where this jerk went to school. He fooled thousands of people and ruined lives. As I said in another post (I'm now editing it for emphasis):
1. The man was evil personified.
2. The man lied through his whole life.
3. The man used the weak and needy to build himself up.
4. The man was a sexual pervert and was unfaithful to his wife and his children.
5. The man was a grand thief and stole from thousands who trusted him.
If there is justice and a hell, he will burn and be tortured for eternity.
The question should be, not whether VPW's doctorate is phoney or not--as long as he fulfilled his particular seminary's guidelines, it is a doctorate...How cheap it was is certainly open for debate...
Well I started a seperate thread on this...
It seems that Pike's Peak Seminary was basically an 8 bedroom residence (house) that a few people with ThD degrees ran a correspondance school out of. From what we can piece together degree requirements probably consisted of some form of writing to be submitted by correspondance, and possibly an in-person evaluation of a sermon (VPW refers to two such presentations). Also some form of dissertation was required.
You can get down a murky path talking about accreditation topics, but I think more to the point would be an examination about the rigor of the core curriculum for the degrees. Certainly in this respect Pike's Peak Seminary would be far less work than any known school's doctorate of divinity, and during that time period a degree from there would be looked down upon for legitimate reasons to the point where we see Wierwille not putting the name of the school on any of his published works.
So yes, VP's doctorate degree comparatively to his contemporaries pretty much was a write a couple of essays and send in some cereal boxtops type of degree.
You know, really what does it matter, other than warning others of the evils of The Way, where this jerk went to school. He fooled thousands of people and ruined lives. As I said in another post (I'm now editing it for emphasis):
1. The man was evil personified.
2. The man lied through his whole life.
3. The man used the weak and needy to build himself up.
4. The man was a sexual pervert and was unfaithful to his wife and his children.
5. The man was a grand thief and stole from thousands who trusted him.
If there is justice and a hell, he will burn and be tortured for eternity.
IMO what it matters is that people that are still under the spell of the false teachers of TWI flat out won't believe your #1 thru #5 - it will slip through going from ear to ear and hitting nothing in between - if anything the only thing that will register is that anyone saying things like that is possessed.
However, logical factual evidence piled up bit by bit eventually will crumble these false teachers ability to hold people spellbound and mesmerized. Seeing very clearly the fruit of people's lives, how their story differed from fact, how they lied, coerced, changed stories, that has impact.
The trance induced by the false teacher has a deep hold. How deep? Look at how many start splinter groups based upon VP's core doctrine even after being savagely treated by VP's successors.
I have to wonder---was she a liar too? She definitely lied by omission, and her book glorified her 'house-mate'
I think she was forced to write this in her retirement years by okie / rfr when she would rather be doing other things. She had help pasting in plenty of scraps from the basement so the word count didn't have to go too high. And I think it was heavily edited by the publications department.
And I think it was heavily edited by the publications department.
That is a given since every published work is all but re-written. Plus, it was pieced together from her diaries so it's not like she sat down and penned a book.
You know, I think I could see past the mail-order degree as a bit of early career foolishness. What makes it sick is his unmitigated gall in requiring everyone to refer to him as "doctor" based on it.
In the (almost) 30 years I've known my brother-in-law, I don't think I have ever heard anyone address him as or refer to him as "Doctor" even though his PhD is from a very reputable institution and very specialized. I'm not privy to what takes place at the academic level with his peers and subordinates, so I won't discount the possibility completely. I would be surprised if he insisted on it or expected it, though. The contrast to the Wierwille scenario is enlightening.
When I go to my eye doctor, dentist, lawyer, etc., they have credentials displayed in plain view. Does anyone who saw the inside of Wierwille's study remember ever seeing such credentials displayed?
edit: Now, let me add this. Before some naysayer comes along and reminds us that Jesus didn't have a doctorate, or some such thing, to diminish the importance of the degree, why, then, did Wierwille not downplay the act of people addressing him as "Doctor"?
In the (almost) 30 years I've known my brother-in-law, I don't think I have ever heard anyone address him as or refer to him as "Doctor" even though his PhD is from a very reputable institution and very specialized. I'm not privy to what takes place at the academic level with his peers and subordinates, so I won't discount the possibility completely. I would be surprised if he insisted on it or expected it, though. The contrast to the Wierwille scenario is enlightening.
Interesting point--and true--I know a handful of people with PhD's and they never really care how I address them-- some people Ive known for years have PhD's that I never even knew about until years into our friendships. Some people I call "Dr." or "Rev" from time to time out of respect but its never demanded, in fact 9 times out of 10 I'll get a "call me Ed" if I start throwing their titles into the mix..
Outside TWI Ive only had one guy, a client, insist I call him Dr., he was pretty pompous about it. I later found out that it was an honorary degree.
It seems that Pike's Peak Seminary was basically an 8 bedroom residence (house) that a few people with ThD degrees ran a correspondance school out of. From what we can piece together degree requirements probably consisted of some form of writing to be submitted by correspondance, and possibly an in-person evaluation of a sermon (VPW refers to two such presentations). Also some form of dissertation was required.
You can get down a murky path talking about accreditation topics, but I think more to the point would be an examination about the rigor of the core curriculum for the degrees. Certainly in this respect Pike's Peak Seminary would be far less work than any known school's doctorate of divinity, and during that time period a degree from there would be looked down upon for legitimate reasons to the point where we see Wierwille not putting the name of the school on any of his published works.
So yes, VP's doctorate degree comparatively to his contemporaries pretty much was a write a couple of essays,
and send in some cereal boxtops type of degree.
(snipped for brevity . . . )
In order to understand the "in-depth spiritual reality" of docvic's "PhD degree" (Pneumahagion Deficient degree),
we first have to know what it is NOT. Seems I heard that in a class somewhere a long time ago.
WHAT IT IS NOT - - -
1.) Worth the paper it was written on;
2.) Worthy of the "rock star" status expected by the owner thereof;
3.) A document making him MOGFODAT; and - - -
4.) Worth many years worth of academic work to earn it. (Mail order comes to mind).
WHAT IT IS/ ( or should I say) BECAME - - -
Well - - we all know the end result of that. No need to enumerate or reiterate.
Doesn't take much to get accredited (these days) either academically or otherwise.
My understanding is he preached at a chapel service and did a seminar for 1 day, not that he was preacher in residence for a semester
Long ago, I ran a PFAL class at a local university (They allowed us to use some space at the student union.) Would it, therefore, be alright to now state that I once instructed at said university?
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chockfull
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From TWI's own writeups - Born Again to Serve by Dorothea Kipp Wierwille - p. 67
Doctor of Theology Degree
On July 5, 1948, our family of five began a trip in our new 1948 Chevrolet, given to us by the Wierwille family, to Manitou Springs, Colorado. Rev. Wierwille had been taking correspondence work with Pikes Peak Bible Seminary and Burton College and writing his doctoral dissertation on "Peter the Preacher". By being in attendance at the seminary in Colorado, he was completing his requirements for a Doctor of Theology degree. Students there came from India and China as well as various parts of the United States. Along with taking course work, Rev. Wierwille also taught two classes: "Radio Preaching Techniques" and "Peter the Preacher". On Wednesday, July 28, 1948, he was awarded the Doctor of Theology degree by Pikes Peak Seminary in a ceremony at the Community Congregational Church in Manitou Springs. Immediately after his graduation, the five of us left for Minnesota for the Camp Farthest Out at Lake Koronis. It was a most tremendous and exceptional summer to have our young family experience both occasions.
There are two pictures on the page - one of the front cover of the Commencement agenda, and the second a photo of VPW with Dr. Stuart Hydanus (who later taught at one of our camps). Dr. Ellis Lininger the president of the seminary is in the picture as well. NOTE: There is not a lot of information available on Lininger - other than writeups questioning Wierwille's credentials the only other reference is that he died in 1994 and is buried in Manitou Springs.
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waysider
Is there snow in any of those pictures?
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Jim
So let me get this straight. VPW left Ohio on July 5th, a Monday and probably arrived at Pike's Peak on Wednesday the 7th. He got his doctorate degree on Wednesday the 28th, 15 working days later. And at the same time teaching "Radio Preaching Techniques" and "Peter the Preacher".
A truly rigorous course of study. It's almost as impressive as inventing the hook shot. Or maybe he could only stay as long as his money held out.
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cara
Maybe that was the viva voce part, the oral exam, those days there in person?
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waysider
The Way: living in love
Page 175
"Oh yes, did I tell you I taught at Gordon Divinity School? Homeletics was my specialty."
................................................................
Has anyone ever investigated this claim?
.............................................................
edit: I sent them an email. Hopefully they will be more responsive than some of the other institutions who were queried.
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WordWolf
One thing I noticed is that vpw had a tendency to INSINUATE when he wanted to be VAGUE about a lie.
He made statements that were phrased in such a way that the normal listener would be led to think
he said one SPECIFIC thing when he actually said a different VAGUE thing.
For those of you unfamiliar with this, here's an example I read once, unrelated to twi.
A person studies martial arts. He spends a month training in the same dojo where Chuck Norris
works out and teaches. He then leaves that dojo and gets a Black Belt from a dojo that's
kinda flaky and not disciplined.
He later tells people: "I have a Black Belt. I trained with Chuck Norris."
What did he ACTUALLY say? He made 2 unconnected statements of 2 different facts.
What is he LEADING THE LISTENERS to think?
He implied that his Black Belt was from Chuck Norris' dojo.
If you read the inside of the jacket of any twi book, you'll see that they mention vpw received
his Masters from Princeton Theological Seminary.
"He later went on to earn his doctorate."
No mention of a different school.
What did it ACTUALLY say? It makes 2 unconnected statements of 2 different facts.
What does it LEAD THE READERS to think?
It implies he completed his doctorate ALSO at Princeton Theological Seminary.
A similar thing happened whenever lcm said that vpw got a "Masters Degree from Princeton."
Since there's 2 Princetons- the famous Princeton University is one commonly known,
the Princeton Theological Seminary (a respected seminary which is unconnected to the University
in any scholastic way but is near in location) is known only in ecclesiastical circles.
So, the average listener is led to think vpw went to Princeton University, and got a Masters
from there.
vpw did the same tning with his intentionally-ambiguous claims concerning athletics.
He said he "played basketball" all through college, and was associated with the Sheboygan
Redskins Basketball NBL team. What did honest people conclude?
They thought he was on his college's Varsity Basketball team and that he earned his Varsity
letter on it, and then he went on to become a member of the Sheboygan Redskins.
What was the reality? He was on NEITHER team, and if confronted on it, he TECHNICALLY could
have claimed he never actually SAID he was. However, he intentionally misled everyone by
implying he did, and phrasing things deliberately to suggest he did.
Those are, of course, independent of the actual lies he DID tell, like lying about Lininger's
credentials and so many other things.
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OperaBuff
Off topic, but only a little: Once you claim to have heard God Almighty audibly tell you that He will teach you the Word, why even bother to list your academic achievements? Doesn't having the creator of the heavens and earth as your personal mentor trump the need to explain the source of your smarts?
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Rejoice
I have to wonder---was she a liar too? She definitely lied by omission, and her book glorified her 'house-mate'
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Broken Arrow
I'm telling you, Wierwille told my Corps that his doctorate was in homiletics, not theology. I remember because I was slightly surprised. Does anyone else remember hearing him say that? Maybe I dreamed it.
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Broken Arrow
Not that it matters that much, but supposidely one year he was inducted into the college's basketball hall of fame. LCM talked about being at the ceremony when he was inducted. You sure he didn't play on the basketball team? I mean, why lie about that? Then again, stranger things have happened.
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johnj
vp says he graduated from Mission house College in Sheboygan, WI with a BA in 1938, an Evangelical & Reformed school. It's now called Lakeland College. If they have a hall of fame, he would be a "big fish" in a tiny, puddle-sized pond. I was in Sheboygan a couple weeks ago, I would have checked it out if I'd thought of it.
During the time he said he played pro basketball, he also claimed to have been a full time student, at Mission House until 1938, Mission House Seminary until 1940, Princeton until 1941, when he started as pastor in Ohio.
Why are we suspicious of any of VP's claims?
Because it's already been proven that he lied so many times.
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allswellhere99
You know, really what does it matter, other than warning others of the evils of The Way, where this jerk went to school. He fooled thousands of people and ruined lives. As I said in another post (I'm now editing it for emphasis):
1. The man was evil personified.
2. The man lied through his whole life.
3. The man used the weak and needy to build himself up.
4. The man was a sexual pervert and was unfaithful to his wife and his children.
5. The man was a grand thief and stole from thousands who trusted him.
If there is justice and a hell, he will burn and be tortured for eternity.
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chockfull
Well I started a seperate thread on this...
It seems that Pike's Peak Seminary was basically an 8 bedroom residence (house) that a few people with ThD degrees ran a correspondance school out of. From what we can piece together degree requirements probably consisted of some form of writing to be submitted by correspondance, and possibly an in-person evaluation of a sermon (VPW refers to two such presentations). Also some form of dissertation was required.
You can get down a murky path talking about accreditation topics, but I think more to the point would be an examination about the rigor of the core curriculum for the degrees. Certainly in this respect Pike's Peak Seminary would be far less work than any known school's doctorate of divinity, and during that time period a degree from there would be looked down upon for legitimate reasons to the point where we see Wierwille not putting the name of the school on any of his published works.
So yes, VP's doctorate degree comparatively to his contemporaries pretty much was a write a couple of essays and send in some cereal boxtops type of degree.
IMO what it matters is that people that are still under the spell of the false teachers of TWI flat out won't believe your #1 thru #5 - it will slip through going from ear to ear and hitting nothing in between - if anything the only thing that will register is that anyone saying things like that is possessed.
However, logical factual evidence piled up bit by bit eventually will crumble these false teachers ability to hold people spellbound and mesmerized. Seeing very clearly the fruit of people's lives, how their story differed from fact, how they lied, coerced, changed stories, that has impact.
The trance induced by the false teacher has a deep hold. How deep? Look at how many start splinter groups based upon VP's core doctrine even after being savagely treated by VP's successors.
I think she was forced to write this in her retirement years by okie / rfr when she would rather be doing other things. She had help pasting in plenty of scraps from the basement so the word count didn't have to go too high. And I think it was heavily edited by the publications department.
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OldSkool
That is a given since every published work is all but re-written. Plus, it was pieced together from her diaries so it's not like she sat down and penned a book.
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Jim
You know, I think I could see past the mail-order degree as a bit of early career foolishness. What makes it sick is his unmitigated gall in requiring everyone to refer to him as "doctor" based on it.
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waysider
In the (almost) 30 years I've known my brother-in-law, I don't think I have ever heard anyone address him as or refer to him as "Doctor" even though his PhD is from a very reputable institution and very specialized. I'm not privy to what takes place at the academic level with his peers and subordinates, so I won't discount the possibility completely. I would be surprised if he insisted on it or expected it, though. The contrast to the Wierwille scenario is enlightening.
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waysider
When I go to my eye doctor, dentist, lawyer, etc., they have credentials displayed in plain view. Does anyone who saw the inside of Wierwille's study remember ever seeing such credentials displayed?
edit: Now, let me add this. Before some naysayer comes along and reminds us that Jesus didn't have a doctorate, or some such thing, to diminish the importance of the degree, why, then, did Wierwille not downplay the act of people addressing him as "Doctor"?
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mstar1
Interesting point--and true--I know a handful of people with PhD's and they never really care how I address them-- some people Ive known for years have PhD's that I never even knew about until years into our friendships. Some people I call "Dr." or "Rev" from time to time out of respect but its never demanded, in fact 9 times out of 10 I'll get a "call me Ed" if I start throwing their titles into the mix..
Outside TWI Ive only had one guy, a client, insist I call him Dr., he was pretty pompous about it. I later found out that it was an honorary degree.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
My understanding is he preached at a chapel service and did a seminar for 1 day, not that he was preacher in residence for a semester
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dmiller
In order to understand the "in-depth spiritual reality" of docvic's "PhD degree" (Pneuma hagion Deficient degree),
we first have to know what it is NOT. Seems I heard that in a class somewhere a long time ago.
WHAT IT IS NOT - - -
1.) Worth the paper it was written on;
2.) Worthy of the "rock star" status expected by the owner thereof;
3.) A document making him MOGFODAT; and - - -
4.) Worth many years worth of academic work to earn it. (Mail order comes to mind).
WHAT IT IS/ ( or should I say) BECAME - - -
Well - - we all know the end result of that. No need to enumerate or reiterate.
Doesn't take much to get accredited (these days) either academically or otherwise.
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waysider
Long ago, I ran a PFAL class at a local university (They allowed us to use some space at the student union.) Would it, therefore, be alright to now state that I once instructed at said university?
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waysider
UPDATE
They never answered my email.
Why am I not surprised?
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