Top leader once said: "Slavery was not as bad as it was made out to be. They were in loving households and were taken care of."
I'm still gagging over that one.
Without knowing the context, I couldn't really say, but slaves of the Israelites were taken care of fairly well, as required by the Law. Obviously, it's been different in other cultures (Israelite slavery in Egypt, African slavery in America, etc.).
"Well, if she wants to be an idolator, that's her business."
1977. The sum total of compassionate words of wisdom during a phone conversation with LCM after one of our WOWs left the program after a group of Christians snuck her out of a coffeehouse, out all night, then stopped at the apartment to pick up her stuff and head home after she'd decided (with a little help) that Jesus Christ was in truth, God. We had no idea where she was or how she was, and had been up all night looking for her.
"Well, if she wants to be an idolator, that's her business."
1977. The sum total of compassionate words of wisdom during a phone conversation with LCM after one of our WOWs left the program after a group of Christians snuck her out of a coffeehouse, out all night, then stopped at the apartment to pick up her stuff and head home after she'd decided (with a little help) that Jesus Christ was in truth, God. We had no idea where she was or how she was, and had been up all night looking for her.
He certainly was a compassionate fellow, wasn't he? :wacko:
He certainly was a compassionate fellow, wasn't he? :wacko:
I'll never forget that moment. I was stunned. Not a word about how the rest of us were doing, how she might be doing, etc. It was one of those red flags I chose to ignore until years later. I called becuase VP told everyone at WOW training that he wanted to talk to any of us personally if we were planning to leave the field. He was in England at the time for a meeting, and the limb coord was there too. So I thought I'd do the next best thing...yep, just following orders...
Without knowing the context, I couldn't really say, but slaves of the Israelites were taken care of fairly well, as required by the Law. Obviously, it's been different in other cultures (Israelite slavery in Egypt, African slavery in America, etc.).
I like the observation about slavery. ""Slavery was not as bad as it was made out to be. They were in loving households and were taken care of."
You have to wonder what was in their Idiot Juice that morning that pushed that particular person to the edge of sanity and then having given their sorry as s a good kick, sent it over into the canyons of insanity. Whatever it was it must have tasted really good.
I suppose the idea of being kidnapped and taken to another country where you lived - if you survived - with a "loving household" that "took care of you" wasn't all that bad. Plus, having a dollar value placed on your body must have been been a confidence builder. Some people never know their own worth. Slaves had it tagged coming out of the gate. Who wouldn't appreciate that kind of attention?
I don't give a s hit what the context was, that statement alone is so laden with layers of anti-value it glows like kryptonite to the brain. Hearing it should have come with a warning that actual brain cells will be destroyed in the process of hearing it and attempting to reckon it, so try to expose an area you won't need for the next class, like the frontal lobe.
quote: Johniam, seeing as how at least half of what's in PFAL has been proven to be WRONG,
Proven??? LOL Allow me to translate.
"Give God the praise, for we know this man is a sinner".
Whether he is a sinner or not, I don't know, but whereas I was blind, now I see.
Still SIT, still pray and get answers, still have the hope, still fellowship with other believers, still study the word, still get edified, etc. PFAL introduced me to all that stuff and the God behind it. Just when is this "at least half" going to kick in?
quote: Johniam, seeing as how at least half of what's in PFAL has been proven to be WRONG,
Proven??? LOL Allow me to translate.
"Give God the praise, for we know this man is a sinner".
Whether he is a sinner or not, I don't know, but whereas I was blind, now I see.
Still SIT, still pray and get answers, still have the hope, still fellowship with other believers, still study the word, still get edified, etc. PFAL introduced me to all that stuff and the God behind it. Just when is this "at least half" going to kick in?
Still SIT. So do I. That's why I said "half". Just in case you're interested in biblical truth--I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here--here are just a few of the provable errors in PFAL.
• King David had a right to any woman in the kingdom
• The Bible always interprets itself, in the verse, in the context or where it's been used before
• Of the five keys to getting prayers answered, VP said that in every record in the Bible where someone is delivered, these keys are present. Utter hogwash.
• Receiving what you 'believe for' is a "Law" that supersedes the will of God.
• The teaching about the difference between apistia and apeithia
• VP's assertion that, before Christ came, people could only believe what they experienced by their five senses.
• God can't communicate with natural men (he spoke to Cain regularly)
• The body was formed, the soul was made, the spirit was created
• No one in the First Century Church was baptized with water
• Throughly and thoroughly are different words with different meanings
• VP's definitions of allos and heteros (they're synonyms)
• Pros means "toghether with yet distinctintly independent of" If any other word was used the WHOLE BIBLE would fall to pieces. rubbish. Pros is a preposition used over 200 times in the NT.
• The "thief" of John 10:10 is the devil. Wrong. Check the context. The thief Jesus referred to is the collective body of false Messiahs--hirelings who careth not for the sheep-- who lead God's people away from God. Most of put VP in that category.
Those are just a few off the top of my head, but they illustrate the fact that what VP presented as the result of YEARS of painstaking biblical research was anything but. It was assumption and plagiarism. And wrong.
This is off topic, so my apologies to the group. Just wanted to make a point.
It's not at all off topic, Jerry. Why not? Because in PFAL, Wierwille presented himself as someone who was capable of delivering a greater collective body of knowledge, regarding the Bible, than anyone had been able to do for the last 2,000 years. In view of the wholesale inaccuracy of much of what he presented, I would classify his claim as "outrageous".
I remember LCM teaching Exodus (no, not the one where everybody leaves TWI), and saying that if the midwives lied about the Hebrew boys, it was because God told them to. You could have heard a pin drop in the big tent. But it didn't take long for the "faithful" to swallow it. My assistant TC remarked after the teaching about this new "revelation." I pointed out that the Bible says it's impossible for God to lie, so how could He give "revelation" to do so? Plenty of believers lied in the OT, and it often worked out for the best; but they weren't spouting God's words!
honestly, there are so many outrageous statements made i don't know quite where to start
there's a great one about hitler (said to doop) but i don't feel like looking it up
my twig leader when i first "got in the word" (barf) said that vpigwierwille was so above anything "fleshly" -- he was so spiritual -- that the reason he turned around completely naked and exposed himself (and smiled) -- as i walked past the bathroom of the all girl (my undershepherders)college way home -- was because of his -- like i just said -- his spirituality
--
another time my same twig leader told me the limb leader was coming to visit and stay over (by then i was living in that college girl way home) and she said it would be an honor (for me, that is) to lie with him -- because i forget sorry i was so sweet and new and loving
i did -- just like i had with my uncle w hen i was 11-12 -- fortunately he just felt me up (boobs) and didn['t do anything else
of course that changed later with wierwille that time
--
another one was when the trunk f'ing leader of the USA ripped me to shreads and i reported it to my dept. head on staff -- she said he was under so much spiritual pressure -- and as i've told you before -- i said he should get another job
at a local twig leader meeting in south florida we were told to go see our people to see who was in debt by looking thru kitchen drawers our any bills laying around that had a balance on credit cards and confront them about it ! never could do it and quit the cult 5 years ago !!
QUOTE: Johniam, as that's not about an outrageous statement in a TWI meeting, you might want to carry it on in your own personal soapbox.
Naw, this time YOU do it. Let me recap for you, if you don't mind. In post #24 I posted totally on topic. Then, in post #25, Jbarrax took 4 words from my post, removed them, enlarged them, and commented on them, totally off topic. Why didn't you reprove HIM? Then I responded to his comment and, like a bull in a china shop, you pile on and say, "OFF TOPIC OFF TOPIC!" So this time why don't you do a personal soapbox. Heck, you can borrow mine. Leave the porch light on when you're through, please.
I re-read both posts, John. I don't see anything about the way JB posted that changed the essence of your post. In fact, by trimming down your statement, he was able to address that particular point, specifically. You might learn well from that and adapt a similar technique yourself, instead of banging quotes into each other like so many runaway shopping carts in a crowded food market parking lot.
However, this whole discourse involving the posts in question is nothing more than meta-discussion. (a discussion of the discussion, itself, rather than a discussion of the topic at hand.) In other words, you have driven this topic off course, just like you do with any other topic that threatens to tarnish the sacred image of VP (You know he wasn't a "Dr.", don't you?) Wierwille.
at a local twig leader meeting in south florida we were told to go see our people to see who was in debt by looking thru kitchen drawers our any bills laying around that had a balance on credit cards and confront them about it ! never could do it and quit the cult 5 years ago !!
Said at ark limb meeting for wows by John Sc0tt.....Peter sank when he began to focus on the five senses, when he stopped looking at his leader and obeying. Our leaders work for God today, if we don`t obey them, if we allow our five senses (aka common sense) to interfere with orders, to trick us, no matter how much we dislike or disagree we will sink also, we will miss out on the blessings of getting to see a miracle. Besides, even if our leader is wrong, God HAS to cover and make it ok because of the believing in our hearts.
When trying to leave the wow field and app corpes year, I was told by lc N T0wnsend that I had made a commitment to God, that to break it was to break a vow, that I was lying to God. Goodness look what happened to Annanias and Saphira when they lied....
Was I going to let a bunch of paracitical cells to prevent me from honoring my commitment? (I owed God and the ministry that taught us God`s word so much more than that doncha know?)
quote: You might learn well from that and adapt a similar technique yourself, instead of banging quotes into each other like so many runaway shopping carts in a crowded food market parking lot.
What do shopping carts have to do with the topic here, Waysider? C'mon, stick with the topic at hand! C'mon, focus! Stay on the same page! What are you? 3 years old?
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Broken Arrow
TWI doctrine is the immodium of the people.
outandabout
Okie said "Staying Alive" starring John Travolta was a rip-off of Athletes of the Spirit. When training for AOL, Okie used Travolta's book on how to get fit and toned. I think it was Sylvester Stall
100% Free
Top leader once said: "Slavery was not as bad as it was made out to be. They were in loving households and were taken care of." I'm still gagging over that one.
100% Free
Top leader once said: "Slavery was not as bad as it was made out to be. They were in loving households and were taken care of."
I'm still gagging over that one.
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waysider
"The Holocaust didn't really happen."
Now that, my friends, is outrageous.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Without knowing the context, I couldn't really say, but slaves of the Israelites were taken care of fairly well, as required by the Law. Obviously, it's been different in other cultures (Israelite slavery in Egypt, African slavery in America, etc.).
George
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drums4fun
"Well, if she wants to be an idolator, that's her business."
1977. The sum total of compassionate words of wisdom during a phone conversation with LCM after one of our WOWs left the program after a group of Christians snuck her out of a coffeehouse, out all night, then stopped at the apartment to pick up her stuff and head home after she'd decided (with a little help) that Jesus Christ was in truth, God. We had no idea where she was or how she was, and had been up all night looking for her.
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waysider
He certainly was a compassionate fellow, wasn't he? :wacko:
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drums4fun
I'll never forget that moment. I was stunned. Not a word about how the rest of us were doing, how she might be doing, etc. It was one of those red flags I chose to ignore until years later. I called becuase VP told everyone at WOW training that he wanted to talk to any of us personally if we were planning to leave the field. He was in England at the time for a meeting, and the limb coord was there too. So I thought I'd do the next best thing...yep, just following orders...
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100% Free
In America.
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socks
I like the observation about slavery. ""Slavery was not as bad as it was made out to be. They were in loving households and were taken care of."
You have to wonder what was in their Idiot Juice that morning that pushed that particular person to the edge of sanity and then having given their sorry as s a good kick, sent it over into the canyons of insanity. Whatever it was it must have tasted really good.
I suppose the idea of being kidnapped and taken to another country where you lived - if you survived - with a "loving household" that "took care of you" wasn't all that bad. Plus, having a dollar value placed on your body must have been been a confidence builder. Some people never know their own worth. Slaves had it tagged coming out of the gate. Who wouldn't appreciate that kind of attention?
I don't give a s hit what the context was, that statement alone is so laden with layers of anti-value it glows like kryptonite to the brain. Hearing it should have come with a warning that actual brain cells will be destroyed in the process of hearing it and attempting to reckon it, so try to expose an area you won't need for the next class, like the frontal lobe.
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johniam
quote: Johniam, seeing as how at least half of what's in PFAL has been proven to be WRONG,
Proven??? LOL Allow me to translate.
"Give God the praise, for we know this man is a sinner".
Whether he is a sinner or not, I don't know, but whereas I was blind, now I see.
Still SIT, still pray and get answers, still have the hope, still fellowship with other believers, still study the word, still get edified, etc. PFAL introduced me to all that stuff and the God behind it. Just when is this "at least half" going to kick in?
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Twinky
Johniam, as that's not about an outrageous statement in a TWI meeting, you might want to carry it on in your own personal soapbox.
Johniam's personal soapbox
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waysider
"You know what killed that little boy? Fear, in the heart of his mother."
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Jbarrax
Still SIT. So do I. That's why I said "half". Just in case you're interested in biblical truth--I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here--here are just a few of the provable errors in PFAL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
• King David had a right to any woman in the kingdom
• The Bible always interprets itself, in the verse, in the context or where it's been used before
• Of the five keys to getting prayers answered, VP said that in every record in the Bible where someone is delivered, these keys are present. Utter hogwash.
• Receiving what you 'believe for' is a "Law" that supersedes the will of God.
• The teaching about the difference between apistia and apeithia
• VP's assertion that, before Christ came, people could only believe what they experienced by their five senses.
• God can't communicate with natural men (he spoke to Cain regularly)
• The body was formed, the soul was made, the spirit was created
• No one in the First Century Church was baptized with water
• Throughly and thoroughly are different words with different meanings
• VP's definitions of allos and heteros (they're synonyms)
• Pros means "toghether with yet distinctintly independent of" If any other word was used the WHOLE BIBLE would fall to pieces. rubbish. Pros is a preposition used over 200 times in the NT.
• The "thief" of John 10:10 is the devil. Wrong. Check the context. The thief Jesus referred to is the collective body of false Messiahs--hirelings who careth not for the sheep-- who lead God's people away from God. Most of put VP in that category.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Those are just a few off the top of my head, but they illustrate the fact that what VP presented as the result of YEARS of painstaking biblical research was anything but. It was assumption and plagiarism. And wrong.
This is off topic, so my apologies to the group. Just wanted to make a point.
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waysider
It's not at all off topic, Jerry. Why not? Because in PFAL, Wierwille presented himself as someone who was capable of delivering a greater collective body of knowledge, regarding the Bible, than anyone had been able to do for the last 2,000 years. In view of the wholesale inaccuracy of much of what he presented, I would classify his claim as "outrageous".
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GeorgeStGeorge
I remember LCM teaching Exodus (no, not the one where everybody leaves TWI), and saying that if the midwives lied about the Hebrew boys, it was because God told them to. You could have heard a pin drop in the big tent. But it didn't take long for the "faithful" to swallow it. My assistant TC remarked after the teaching about this new "revelation." I pointed out that the Bible says it's impossible for God to lie, so how could He give "revelation" to do so? Plenty of believers lied in the OT, and it often worked out for the best; but they weren't spouting God's words!
George
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excathedra
honestly, there are so many outrageous statements made i don't know quite where to start
there's a great one about hitler (said to doop) but i don't feel like looking it up
my twig leader when i first "got in the word" (barf) said that vpigwierwille was so above anything "fleshly" -- he was so spiritual -- that the reason he turned around completely naked and exposed himself (and smiled) -- as i walked past the bathroom of the all girl (my undershepherders)college way home -- was because of his -- like i just said -- his spirituality
--
another time my same twig leader told me the limb leader was coming to visit and stay over (by then i was living in that college girl way home) and she said it would be an honor (for me, that is) to lie with him -- because i forget sorry i was so sweet and new and loving
i did -- just like i had with my uncle w hen i was 11-12 -- fortunately he just felt me up (boobs) and didn['t do anything else
of course that changed later with wierwille that time
--
another one was when the trunk f'ing leader of the USA ripped me to shreads and i reported it to my dept. head on staff -- she said he was under so much spiritual pressure -- and as i've told you before -- i said he should get another job
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STAYAWAY
at a local twig leader meeting in south florida we were told to go see our people to see who was in debt by looking thru kitchen drawers our any bills laying around that had a balance on credit cards and confront them about it ! never could do it and quit the cult 5 years ago !!
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excathedra
congrads ((((((((( stayaway ))))))))))
oh i remember one outrageous thing "people are to be loved and things are to be used"
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha h ahah a haaaaaaaaaahhhhhh ha ha ha ah ha ha etc
--
--
--
said by veepigola to kristen as she came on the coach to discuss her woes of a marriage breaking down, etc., and wanted to kill herself-
as he took out his disgusting pathetic weenie
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waysider
He called us his "kids".
Well, I guess that's not so much outrageous as disgusting.
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johniam
QUOTE: Johniam, as that's not about an outrageous statement in a TWI meeting, you might want to carry it on in your own personal soapbox.
Naw, this time YOU do it. Let me recap for you, if you don't mind. In post #24 I posted totally on topic. Then, in post #25, Jbarrax took 4 words from my post, removed them, enlarged them, and commented on them, totally off topic. Why didn't you reprove HIM? Then I responded to his comment and, like a bull in a china shop, you pile on and say, "OFF TOPIC OFF TOPIC!" So this time why don't you do a personal soapbox. Heck, you can borrow mine. Leave the porch light on when you're through, please.
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waysider
I re-read both posts, John. I don't see anything about the way JB posted that changed the essence of your post. In fact, by trimming down your statement, he was able to address that particular point, specifically. You might learn well from that and adapt a similar technique yourself, instead of banging quotes into each other like so many runaway shopping carts in a crowded food market parking lot.
However, this whole discourse involving the posts in question is nothing more than meta-discussion. (a discussion of the discussion, itself, rather than a discussion of the topic at hand.) In other words, you have driven this topic off course, just like you do with any other topic that threatens to tarnish the sacred image of VP (You know he wasn't a "Dr.", don't you?) Wierwille.
Please stay "on the same page".
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rascal
Wow, that is insane.
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rascal
Said at ark limb meeting for wows by John Sc0tt.....Peter sank when he began to focus on the five senses, when he stopped looking at his leader and obeying. Our leaders work for God today, if we don`t obey them, if we allow our five senses (aka common sense) to interfere with orders, to trick us, no matter how much we dislike or disagree we will sink also, we will miss out on the blessings of getting to see a miracle. Besides, even if our leader is wrong, God HAS to cover and make it ok because of the believing in our hearts.
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rascal
When trying to leave the wow field and app corpes year, I was told by lc N T0wnsend that I had made a commitment to God, that to break it was to break a vow, that I was lying to God. Goodness look what happened to Annanias and Saphira when they lied....
Was I going to let a bunch of paracitical cells to prevent me from honoring my commitment? (I owed God and the ministry that taught us God`s word so much more than that doncha know?)
A fetus was not alive until first breath.
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johniam
quote: You might learn well from that and adapt a similar technique yourself, instead of banging quotes into each other like so many runaway shopping carts in a crowded food market parking lot.
What do shopping carts have to do with the topic here, Waysider? C'mon, stick with the topic at hand! C'mon, focus! Stay on the same page! What are you? 3 years old?
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