The most outragious statement in a TWI meeting?

[johniam]

Wordwolf, do you personally have any experience in fast food? I do. Six years as an asst mgr and 10 years over all. All my mgr years were with Burger King, but I also worked at McDonalds, Hardees, and KFC. Not good pay/ not bad work.

During a typical lunch rush we had 25 people on the crew. All working at a fast pace in close proximity with each other. Those with the least experience did drinks, fries, broiler, dining room cleaning, the easy stuff. The mgr in charge did not have a fixed position; had to be free to go wherever there was a need. The best qualified workers went to drive thru, whoppers, small hamburgers, and specialty sandwiches. The prettiest girls were, of course, on front counter. Sex sells, y'know.

Many days things went well. But if enough people called in sick, or if someone (an asst mgr perhaps) just had an attitude about something, it didn't take much for hell to break loose. I had a pressure point that seemed to require less and less to be reached as time went on. I last worked this job 20 years ago and I don't miss it.

But the best mgrs were the ones who could keep their cool the longest. I didn't see many times when other mgrs got in trouble for just yelling at people. If they got in trouble it was for sexual harassment, stealing money, racial insensitivity, substance abuse, calling in sick too much, stuff like that. But even the best of mgrs had to yell at times to keep order.

I'm not saying it was the norm, I'm saying it was something all mgrs had to have the capacity to do. Part of the job; nature of the beast; whatever you want to call it. Yes, perhaps 'scream' is not the best word here.

[Twinky]

Nice deflection, Johniam, but working fast food is not "living the Word" at TWI HQ.

Though the manner of delivery of instructions/orders might be "screaming" we're not talking about outrageous delivery but outrageous statements.

I can agree with you that most of what LCM said was outrageous and delivered in outrageous manner...but that's not quite this thread.

LCM was good at outrageous statements.

I don't want to go dredging around in the back of my mind looking for any specifics. I'm having quite a nice life without him and his venom.

He had his own "God spoke to me" moments. One I recall is when he felt God put his "hand" on his head and turn his head so that LCM saw something that God wanted him to. Was it true? Dunno. I did perceive it at the time as being "God always shows me - you can't hide."

[chockfull]

I'm not saying it was the norm, I'm saying it was something all mgrs had to have the capacity to do. Part of the job; nature of the beast; whatever you want to call it. Yes, perhaps 'scream' is not the best word here.

So you're saying that LCM was better suited for a fast food management job as opposed to running a Christian ministry?

Interesting....

[WordWolf]

(snip)

I had a pressure point that seemed to require less and less to be reached as time went on. I last worked this job 20 years ago and I don't miss it.

But the best mgrs were the ones who could keep their cool the longest. I didn't see many times when other mgrs got in trouble for just yelling at people.

(snip)

I'm not saying it was the norm, I'm saying it was something all mgrs had to have the capacity to do. Part of the job; nature of the beast; whatever you want to call it. Yes, perhaps 'scream' is not the best word here.

Ah, there's your answer right there.

I don't question that a manager may need to get attention or even raise their voice to be heard.

I've had different managers and supervisors, a number of whom had to raise their voices.

What is NOT required was YELLING or SCREAMING. Managers I've had who felt the need to

YELL or SCREAM, ALL in my experience- were less respected than those who did NOT yell.

It's not about YELLING or SCREAMING, it's about the OTHER things you mentioned

1) "having a pressure point"

2) "keeping their cool"

A manager or director needs to have control over situations- which means the

FIRST THING about managing is to manage YOURSELF.

If you have personal crises, don't lose it at work and yell at the workers.

In a crisis, there is no TIME to yell, vent and panic.

You raise your voice and control the situation.

On 9/11, I watched television footage of what happened. One clip I saw drove it all

home to me like nothing else could. When the cloud of debris engulfed the streets,

all vision was completely blocked. Eventually, the air cleared, and EVERYTHING was

COVERED with powdered debris. The camera showed the air clearing (relatively, now

we could see), and the camera was pointed in the general direction of a police officer.

He stood up, and assessed his surroundings. At that moment, you could hear a woman

panicking. The police officer CALMLY and LOUDLY began addressing her, and sounded

well in control of himself. (Not me, I was watching the whole thing at home and

couldn't keep my cool from the comfort of my living room. He was there and had

self-control.

So, I say to you, you do not HAVE to scream to be a manager at fast-food or any

other kind of manager. You can raise your voice and speak loudly if needed,

but that's different than SCREAMING. SCREAMING indicates a lack of self-control.

Edited September 6, 2011 by WordWolf

[WordWolf]

Getting back to twi and outrageous statements,

one of the things that accompanied some of vpw's outrageous statements was YELLING.

He had odd things he claimed (perhaps he believed them, perhaps not)

and he pushed for people to embrace them. Sometimes he yelled to do that.

Sometimes he yelled because he was angry and venting.

Even lcm documented this inadvertently in his book about how vpw was so great.

People protected a floor when a piano was resting on it, but putting a piece of

plywood under the piano. vpw didn't like this for some reason.

He yelled at the people that they had to "fight for this place" and stormed

out. Never gave any indication what the heck that was about or what he thought

should be done differently or how, just yelled and stormed out.

Lots of EMOTION, no LEADERSHIP. Lots of DRAMATICS, no SELF-CONTROL.

Then there was the time lcm did vpw the courtesy of meeting vpw with "his"

golf cart (which twi owned) so he wouldn't have to walk. vpw jabbed his finger

at lcm and yelled "Keep your hands off my stuff!"

Then there was the time lcm went away for a few days and didn't check in verbally

with vpw. Instead of saying "Are you all right? What happened?" like a person

who actually cared about the other would say, to vpw it was all about HIM and

how lcm did him the discourtesy of not checking in with him.

"WHAT KIND OF EGO TRIP ARE YOU ON?"

Of course, lcm was vpw's disciple, and learned what vpw could teach him,

becoming the quintessence of vpw's practices and pollicy.

lcm went around two-fold the child of hell vpw was, yelling and screaming

at people, and making up new things to justify it like

"spiritual anger". That excuse came up whenever lcm wanted to vent at length

and had a microphone, and felt like giving an excuse. Eventually, he didn't

even bother and just yelled without pretext.

So, twi, outrageous claims from vpw and lcm, yelling and theatrics.

All part of a complete picture of twi, vpw, and life at the top of twi.

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

Getting back to twi and outrageous statements,

one of the things that accompanied some of vpw's outrageous statements was YELLING.

He had odd things he claimed (perhaps he believed them, perhaps not)

and he pushed for people to embrace them. Sometimes he yelled to do that.

Sometimes he yelled because he was angry and venting.

Even lcm documented this inadvertently in his book about how vpw was so great.

People protected a floor when a piano was resting on it, but putting a piece of

plywood under the piano. vpw didn't like this for some reason.

He yelled at the people that they had to "fight for this place" and stormed

out. Never gave any indication what the heck that was about or what he thought

should be done differently or how, just yelled and stormed out.

Lots of EMOTION, no LEADERSHIP. Lots of DRAMATICS, no SELF-CONTROL.

Then there was the time lcm did vpw the courtesy of meeting vpw with "his"

golf cart (which twi owned) so he wouldn't have to walk. vpw jabbed his finger

at lcm and yelled "Keep your hands off my stuff!"

Then there was the time lcm went away for a few days and didn't check in verbally

with vpw. Instead of saying "Are you all right? What happened?" like a person

who actually cared about the other would say, to vpw it was all about HIM and

how lcm did him the discourtesy of not checking in with him.

"WHAT KIND OF EGO TRIP ARE YOU ON?"

Of course, lcm was vpw's disciple, and learned what vpw could teach him,

becoming the quintessence of vpw's practices and pollicy.

lcm went around two-fold the child of hell vpw was, yelling and screaming

at people, and making up new things to justify it like

"spiritual anger". That excuse came up whenever lcm wanted to vent at length

and had a microphone, and felt like giving an excuse. Eventually, he didn't

even bother and just yelled without pretext.

So, twi, outrageous claims from vpw and lcm, yelling and theatrics.

All part of a complete picture of twi, vpw, and life at the top of twi.

the irony of that statement"What kind of ego trip are you on?" could have been addressed to Wierwille, but proably he would have slapped me and I would beaten him to a pulp, but that is not agape, divine Christian love of God in renewed mind(spiritual, emotional maturity of behavior and attitude) on either of us. Now I am more grown up and would not have reacted that way.

[johniam]

This one I remember from a sns tape from the late 80s. Can't recall the teaching title, but LCM was at high volume and he said, "If you're a woman, and you CAN'T be the guardian of a home or a helpmeet to your husband, I don't care if you can run every corporation there is, you're a moron!"

Somebody here has got to remember that one besides me.

[JavaJane]

Reading through this topic made me realize just how very mysogynistic TWI was/is.... I grew up with it for half of my childhood and didn't really ever consider just how NASTY towards women both VP and LCM and others were. I think most of it I just chalked up to differences in the times people were raised, or that they were just referring to one specific woman, and not all women.

I was blind, but now I see.

[socks]

I've heard so many outrageous things over the years from so many people, so many situations, etc. etc.

I think the comments thus far on the anger / venting conduct would qualify as "most" rage -eous, in or out.

In high pressure, physical situations the volume level will go up, I think that's fairly normal. You're loading a truck, someone's about to knock something over, "hey! move back! MOVE BACK!"...."Okay, back up....you're good, keep coming! more, more....stop! STOP!"

That's normal, work related, appropriate for the situation, sure.

I work in an office, people get amp'd up at times. No one "shouts" at anyone else, there may be disagreements, it's civil and professional - but when people own their work and take pride in and there's something at stake, yes, there's going to be emotional exchanges. Respect is essential. If you don't respect people it will show very quickly and they simply won't work with you. People worked with him and his weirdness because it was a requirement, the cost of being around him. People do that kind of thing sure, but you'd think in a Christian ministry you'd get less of that sort of treacherous treatment.

A B C's =

Act in the best interests of others and the work you do

Believe the best from your co-workers and assume their intent is good before you assume it's bad.

Communicate through all of the above.

The Way was good at those things at one time, and got very bad at them over time. There's nothing to excuse the overt, consistent and repeated venting that people like Craig inflicted on those around them.

Acting as if the interests of those he worked with wasn't important .

Believing the worst about anyone he didn't like, understand or who didn't cater to his cottonballed vision.

Communication? Guess it speaks for itself.

Most outrageous and unexcellent indeed.

[waysider]

"God invented welfare for the Way-fers"

fascinating concept

I've known people who've been on welfare...not exactly living a "more abundant life", by any stretch. Whatever happened to the hype they used to peddle regarding John 10:10?

"You see, kids, Gawd made the Moon out of green cheese because He knew, in His foreknowledge, when Way-fers finally set foot on its soil, after a long and treacherous journey, just how Gawd Almighty hungry they will be."

Can I get an Amen?

[JavaJane]

If I remember correctly, a couple of years before we left they were teaching that the more abundant life was FIRST spiritual, then physical.

Convenient, eh?

[waysider]

If I remember correctly, a couple of years before we left they were teaching that the more abundant life was FIRST spiritual, then physical.

Convenient, eh?

Yes, very convenient. Especially since it contradicts the essence of PFAL session #1. Remember? Wierwille said he saw the "unbelievers" living a more abundant life than the "believers". If it's "spiritual", what was it he was seeing? <_<

[JavaJane]

Yes, very convenient. Especially since it contradicts the essence of PFAL session #1. Remember? Wierwille said he saw the "unbelievers" living a more abundant life than the "believers". If it's "spiritual", what was it he was seeing? <_<

It's contradictory to the blue nook, too... And I don't think this is taught to the newbies - it's more of an "initiated" teaching (meaning that they lay this on you later when the law of believing ™ doesn't pan out all the time.

Well, since no one has taken PFAL since LCM's Way of Abundance and Power class was released in the early 90s... Maybe it's "new light ™"?

Edited September 8, 2011 by JavaJane

[chockfull]

Wierwille said he saw the "unbelievers" living a more abundant life than the "believers".

And if he were able to sit up in his grave he'd see the exact same thing today. In his ministry.

[Jim]

"Everybody's welcome at The Way"

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

"Everybody's welcome at The Way"

bwahaha, snicker gag me with a spoon, gonna hurl

Edited September 10, 2011 by Thomas Loy Bumgarner

[Watered Garden]

One of the last teaching tapes we received in the mail, after we had left TWI but I had not had time to write and tell them to quit sending their propaganda to me, LCM, in that portentous, "it's the Lord, Noah" voice stated: "It is impossible to obey God without first obeying your leadership!"

"Huh?" thought I. What about Acts 4:19 where Peter and John tell the Sanhedrin "whether it is better to obey you than to obey God, you be the judge."

[100% Free]

Some people are mean. They sit in their office and watch soap operas. They are fat and weird, with a husband that did not truly love. He is flirtatious about other women. Who is she to judge everyone else? She worked over time beacuse she was just not efficient. If she said anything outrageous it's because she was mean. Shame on her. Someone who needed her car painted orange so she could find it in a parking lot should not say bad things about others.

Edited September 13, 2011 by 100% Free

[JavaJane]

I remember LCM stating that the earth was the center of the universe... that Galileo had it wrong.

How positively medieval of him!

[Twinky]

D'ya know, JJ, now you say that - I think I remember hearing him say that, too.

The earth doesn't have to be the center of the solar system or anything like that, but it is the center of the universe - the focal point.

Hadn't thought of that for years. (Probably, not even for 30 seconds)

[Trefor Heywood]

D'ya know, JJ, now you say that - I think I remember hearing him say that, too.

The earth doesn't have to be the center of the solar system or anything like that, but it is the center of the universe - the focal point.

Hadn't thought of that for years. (Probably, not even for 30 seconds)

Ah but we are all the centre of our own universes in that everything else revolved around us.

And if we are all on the Earth then it's at least near the centre of the Universe.

[allswellhere99]

Top leader once said: "Slavery was not as bad as it was made out to be. They were in loving households and were taken care of."

I'm still gagging over that one.

OMG ... really?

Reading through this topic made me realize just how very mysogynistic TWI was/is.... I grew up with it for half of my childhood and didn't really ever consider just how NASTY towards women both VP and LCM and others were. I think most of it I just chalked up to differences in the times people were raised, or that they were just referring to one specific woman, and not all women.

I was blind, but now I see.

Mysogynistic -- yup -- if you're married, you have to ask your husband first before making a decision.

[Broken Arrow]

I remember LCM stating that the earth was the center of the universe... that Galileo had it wrong.

How positively medieval of him!

Incredible! I'm tellin' ya the guy was born out of time. He would have fit so well as part of the inquisition.

[WordWolf]

For the most part, a certain level of education was a cutoff in twi.

If your education exceeded a certain point, you were discouraged.

That point generally was "know enough on a subject to be able to document

that twi's top idiot who's making things up as he;s going along

is completely wrong."

In twi, vpw was assumed to be correct no matter WHAT he said, as if he

was some sort of expert on EVERYTHING. vpw DID put himself forth as an

expert on everything- he had opinions on all subjects and expounded at

length whether or not he actually UNDERSTOOD the subject.

lcm did the same and moreso. He was easier to catch at it because vpw

KNEW he was conning people and deceiving them. lcm was convinced vpw

was telling the truth and following correct policies, so he never tried

to moderate his tactics. He was upfront and direct with his nonsense-

which makes it easier to detect.

Honestly, was there ever a statement on, for example, world history,

US foreign policy, or US history from either of them that was completely

accurate? vpw quoted the Liberty Lobby and other nuts, spoke against

Holocaust history (as did lcm) and spouted various bits of nonsense from

his favorite authors. As long as he had a source, he ran with it.

lcm was twice as nutty, and didn't need even 1 nut to write things down

first. Anyone remember his rant about the Pope's aircraft carrier?

[Jbarrax]

At one point during the Advanced Class, when VP was talking about revelation, he said. "There are days that go by where I just know everything that's going on!" or words to that effect.