Well, Doctor said.......

[penworks]

Mostly I suspect it's that those who do want to retain and hold to that thread of validity in the teaching and the name represents an easy to use way to refer to him.

There's a group of those who no doubt ignore reality too and figure there's no need to change a thing. "The Word's still the Word" and that includes non-Wordy things that are part and parcel of that spiritual package.

Had he completed a recognized doctoral program, that would have been one thing - still, that wouldn't have validated his teaching, ideas or any outcomes from them. It would have meant he completed the work to achieve the recognition - and importantly - by the communities that maintain that recognition.

The doctoral degree wasn't issued by an accredited source - "Pikes Peak Seminary", whatever. So one would know, should know, going in - it will have limited recognition and therefore value in those circles where degrees are handled. So it's puzzling that on his part he embedded it into who he was and yeah, equally puzzling years later to hang anything on it of importance. I think it's just "the name" that goes with the man.

It's the same kind of logic he used in his books - he didn't hide his sources, although he wasn't clear about how he got from A to Z with them (B G Leonard's an example of that). But he did write, publish and sell books that contained material from others books. If God taught him, opened the scriptures ok, but apparently God wasn't up to redoing old work and just directed him to previous efforts. That's understandable, God has a lot to do but if it's all one happy bag of inspired work, all the better to clearly accredit God for past work well done and note the sources.

When someone that advertises that they're a "Dr.", and they write and publish, it's safe as a buck on a board to say that person will know and understand the standards that govern publishing. There's no "or should", they will as a result of completing their doctoral work. He'd completed up to his Masters degree, and so he'd done his papers, writs, thesis, etc. etc. and then done the Pike's Peak thing. So he knew and he decided to avoid clearly identifying what he injected into his own work.

In the world where academic work results in degrees and achievements - that's a no-no. It'sa no-no in high school too, or when you're writing a check or doing much of anything, one would think. So if one is going to represent their own academic level as one of Doctor of anything - it's like in for a dime, in for a dollar or something like that. Otherwise, why bother?

I don't fixate on it but IMO it's a simple kinda deal.

Socks, you crack me up. " If God taught him, opened the scriptures ok, but apparently God wasn't up to redoing old work and just directed him to previous efforts. That's understandable, God has a lot to do but if it's all one happy bag of inspired work, all the better to clearly accredit God for past work well done and note the sources."

Cheers!

Penworks

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

I'm sorry, Thomas, but I'm afraid I have too much respect for Doctor Who to confuse him with "doctor who?" :wacko:

Love,

Steve

Steve , it's called sarcasm

[johniam]

quote: But Jesus never CLAIMED to be an ordained clergyman, did he?

Why claim to be the waterboy when you're the quarterback?

[waysider]

Why claim to be the waterboy when you're the quarterback?

......or vice versa

Edited August 10, 2011 by waysider

[rascal]

quote: Why do people continue to call him Doctor, even though they know his doctorate was as phony as a three dollar bill?

What motivates them to do that?

Because not everybody is obsessed with disrespecting him as you are. To me that's like saying "You know Jesus wasn't really an ordained clergyman, don't you?"

So what?

Um what is disrespectful about pointing out the fact that he wasn`t a doctor,that in using the title the man was a fraud, a liar?

VPW didn`t have the education or credentials of a doctor, maybe that was why he proved so unqualified to teach, to minister to, and conduct himself as a christian leader. That would explain his many shortcomings.

Maybe if he had had the discipline, the stamina and endurance required to work and honestly earn that doctorate, he might also have developed the character and maturity necessary to be dealing with peoples lives and spiritual well being.

Presenting himself as a doctor was a flat out lie. Presenting himself as a Christian or leader on behalf of God was an obscenity.

[chockfull]

Why claim to be the waterboy when you're the quarterback?

It's kind of like my old man told me one time. The only thing better than a crawfish dinner is five crawfish dinners.

Coach Red Beaulieu

The Waterboy

[Abigail]

Yes, why they continue to hold him in high esteem is really a whole 'nother ball of ear wax.

Sorta, kinda reminds me of a woman who is subjected to extreme physical abuse by her husband but still, not only stays with him, but defends him.

"Sure, he beat the livin' daylights out of me for the umteenth time again, but he's really a gentle soul, deep down inside."....Huh???

That's not why the stay. They stay out of fear and low self esteem. Hmmmm, yet another parallel, no?

[ex70sHouston]

I always thought of him as VP or Doctor. It was his name. I never thought of him as a Doctor of Theology. At first I thought of him with a great deal of respect because I respected him NOT because he had a doctorate. Even when later I no longer respected him I thought of him as Doctor, because that was his name not his title.

[excathedra]

yes i see the point he could have had all the legit degrees in the ficking universe and i still would have no respect for him

you know even the elite educated can be rapists abusers you get what i'm saying

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

If the idiot(idios- one self deluded fool) had not cast aspersions and ranted against all denominations in his Dillema(?) of Foreign Missions pamphelet, the Evangelical Christian Missionary Alliance/Nyack College was planning to award Wierwille an honorary doctorate of theology. Instead the fool offended every Christian denomination. oh, btw he did not have permission to take a sabbatical from his congregation to do a whirlwind tour of Europe, Middle East, or India. Truth is the Hindu was faking his lameness, and was cursing Wierwille in Hindi for trying to "heal" him in the name of Jesus(not praising as VPW claimed) and offended Jainists at convention in Japalur(?). He even considered a run as a dark horse for the presidency of the UCC, but decided against it(which would have destroyed the merger).

[Ham]

Interesting..

Sounds like..

a brief encounter I had with some uneducated character who thought I wanted the governor of Michigan impeached.

No..

the technical term is "recalled".

That is, the people who casted their vote, have drastically been betrayed, or legitimately change their mind..

[Ham]

Christ.

This character was voted in because he claimed to do the job, and deny the salary.

Free Beer.

I mean.. if it is free.. does that mean it is supposed to be good?

Free Beer..

don't complain..

just don't look for the little tab where one can enter one's assessment of da beer..

[waysider]

I stopped at one of the popular "gas stations" that boasts of fresh coffee. As I approached the register, I took a sip. The coffee was stale and putrid. I called it to the attention of the cashier. He said, "OK, it's no charge.".....Huh?... Was that supposed to make it taste any better?

Sooooo... Wierwile plagiarized the work of others (stale coffee) and passed it off as his own. But, because everyone called him "Doctor" (The coffee was free.) he is somehow excused?

[Ham]

quote: But Jesus never CLAIMED to be an ordained clergyman, did he?

Why claim to be the waterboy when you're the quarterback?

who is the waterboy, and who is the quarterback?

I'm just trying to figure out your argument here..

what is technically wrong with being a water boy?

the "quarterback" once said something about giving a nice refreshing cold drink of water to someone, once..

what reward is there..

so far.. all I have been offered here is a glass of vinegar. That is OK.. I mean. If that is the best you have to offer..

[waysider]

I'm just trying to figure out your argument here..

It's not so much an argument as it is a distraction. Don't like someone questioning Wierwille's credentials? No problem. Just pretend the conversation is somehow related to Jesus. Better yet, draw some kind of parallel between Wierwille and Jesus.

I want to know how Wierwille was able to represent himself as the team captain, when, in reality, he wasn't qualified to be anything more than the team go-fer.

Oh, please, someone draw an analogy to Jesus or Buddha or Krishna or Mohamed. .... or, P.T. Barnum.(that one I can buy.)

Edited August 12, 2011 by waysider

[Ham]

well.. I'm being kind here. No idea why.. I really don't have a reason to be.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Ham

[Twinky]

If the idiot(idios- one self deluded fool) had not cast aspersions and ranted against all denominations in his Dillema(?) of Foreign Missions pamphelet,(1) the Evangelical Christian Missionary Alliance/Nyack College was planning to award Wierwille an honorary doctorate of theology. Instead the fool offended every Christian denomination. oh, (2) btw he did not have permission to take a sabbatical from his congregation to do a whirlwind tour of Europe, Middle East, or India. (3) Truth is the Hindu was faking his lameness, (4) and was cursing Wierwille in Hindi for trying to "heal" him in the name of Jesus (not praising as VPW claimed) and (5) offended Jainists at convention in Japalur(?). (6) He even considered a run as a dark horse for the presidency of the UCC, but decided against it (which would have destroyed the merger).

Thomas, where do you get this information from? That's 6 allegations, of which I don't have too much difficulty with (2), but the other allegations?

(BTW - "dilemma").

[excathedra]

forgive me, BUT why would our lord and savior our holiest of holies our god's only begotten, our everything, etc. etc.

ever be on the same subject as this disgusting one ((water boy king or whatever i glazed over)

[johniam]

What God has cleansed, call not thou common.

[nandon]

Why do people continue to call him Doctor, even though they know his doctorate was as phony as a three dollar bill?

What motivates them to do that?

im responding to this specific question. the strange thing is that this question is very easy for me.

He was a pimp, a baller, a king, a leader, a cowboy... he was just one of those german ego-maniacs who roams the earth. I get to meet them all the time in my business. I actually think i am one, but i learned to keep my hands to myself and not hurt other people who get hurt really easy. VP didn't learn that. He was raised to control everything around him at any cost. imagine what type of ministry he would have created had he been born now days with the internet.

Say anything you want about him, he dominated thousands of peoples lives with his opinion of what he thought the bible meant [yes he stole the ideas, but he cut them and pasted them and sold them, which is what 70% of the people I know actually do for a living now days. cut paste, cut paste, cut paste.... followed by SELL SELL SELL SELL

we are all animals, and we are pack animals and we need a leader. pretty simple. But don't get me wrong when I say simple, i mean simple to me. There's probably a ton of things that I am confused by that you would understand easily. :)

[waysider]

What God has cleansed, call not thou common.

John, how does that relate to the discussion? Are you saying it's wrong to question Mr. Wierwille's credentials because God has "cleansed" him? How do you know God "cleansed" him? Is it because you heard him say "Lo shanta la maka see tay."?

[DontWorryBeHappy]

cleansed???????.........are you saying God "cleansed" wierwille????????..........................LOL...............bwaaaahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!......................that's gotta be one of the silliest things i've ever heard about God!!!!......................................................peace.

[johniam]

1 John 1:7b - and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not, and if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Waysider, you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

quote: Don't like someone questioning Wierwille's credentials? No problem. Just pretend the conversation is somehow related to Jesus. Better yet, draw some kind of parallel between Wierwille and Jesus.

But if you don't like someone questioning your conclusions, you pretend that Jesus doesn't exist, and that his finished works don't have any impact or relevance today. Good luck with that.

Edited August 15, 2011 by johniam

[Ham]

If the victoid was "cleansed".. how come he stayed so dirty?

The "finished work of Jesus Christ" seems to have "failed" or has no relevance to herr vicster..

I mean, if he's a Poster Child for what Jesus can do for someone- on a practical, if not just spiritual level..

if I were Jesus, I'd sue for defamation of character..

[waysider]

John

Once again, your post serves no purpose other than to act as a catylist for diversion. There is nothing about this discussion that is even remotely related to Jesus, God, The Bible, cleansing or anything else along those lines. As I stated earlier, the subject of this discussion is the dubious nature of Mr. Wierwille's academic "credentials" and the reluctance of some people, such as yourself, to accept that reality. Please stay on the same page as everyone else.