Until they can stand on their own

[PatAnswer]

In another thread Chockful said:

"Be very nice to the new people until they take the class, then gradually control more and more of their lives."

Which got me to thinking about another category where TWI would talk out of both sides of their mouth.

When it came to "undershepherding" we were told that we should "undershepherd" new folks until they could stand on their own. Similarly, we were told to undershepherd folks through (or until they took) the Advanced Class. So logically after someone took the Advanced Class should be when they can stand on their own.

Well, what does stand on their own mean? Does it mean that they've reached a maturity level that should allow them to make their own decisions about their own lives (what they do, what they don't want to do, when they do it)? Does it mean they have the ability to give input into a biblical discussion even if what they think goes against accepted TWI doctrine?

From my observation those that made it through the Advanced Class were not allowed to stand on their own, were not allowed to make decisions that they felt best for their own lives. There was ALWAYS more to do, their way of doing it, another level to attain another hoop to jump through. Maybe it's Way Corps or an outreach program or class crew. There was always someone telling you how to live your life no matter how old you were or how many years you were in the ministry or how many classes you took.

Newbies and innies: Stand on your own? It's never going to happen. It's a false promise. Look around you. All that awaits you is more control, more demands, bondage, for the rest of your life.

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

only when they became top leaders in TWI(like the president of the organization)

[johniam]

quote:

From my observation those that made it through the Advanced Class were not allowed to stand on their own, were not allowed to make decisions that they felt best for their own lives. There was ALWAYS more to do, their way of doing it, another level to attain another hoop to jump through.

When was this?

[waysider]

When you really think about it, objectively, it means the opposite of what it implies. The idea is that the person will become more and more dependent on the group to define their thoughts and opinions, not less. And, by being the person who does the undershepherding, it insures that you, also, will become more indoctrinated to accept and adhere to the group's beliefs....Standing on your own?...Not hardly.

[chockfull]

Newbies and innies: Stand on your own? It's never going to happen. It's a false promise. Look around you. All that awaits you is more control, more demands, bondage, for the rest of your life.

Agreed. With each new level there is a new loss of control. AC grad? There goes owning a house. Or a newer vehicle, as the only kosher loan is a lease. Fellowship coordinator? No debt, plus now you get one extra meeting a week listening to the only outlet the next higher egomaniac on the tree has. Corps? People deciding whether you have to move on a yearly basis. Clergy? Forget about having any independant thoughts - anything vocalized contrary to the BOD will get you run out on a rail.

Stand on your own? What a joke! The Way Ministry has NEVER stood on its own. It's pillaged followers of other denominations since preception. VP's research has NEVER stood on its own. He plagiarized richly from other sources. Stole the class from BG Leonard. Stole the holy spirit teachings from JE Stiles.

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

The Stand-Joel Houston/Hillsong

[Twinky]

Stand on your own? What a joke! The Way Ministry has NEVER stood on its own.

No, no, Chockfull. It does stand on its own. Its own people, that is. Tramples all over 'em, in fact.

[skyrider]

Well, what does stand on their own mean? Does it mean that they've reached a maturity level that should allow them to make their own decisions about their own lives (what they do, what they don't want to do, when they do it)? Does it mean they have the ability to give input into a biblical discussion even if what they think goes against accepted TWI doctrine?

Once you're indoctrinated with the wierwille perspective of "the word".....the smoke-n-mirrors magic of believing and the us-versus-them mentality....you find yourself standing in twi's pasture, in twi's bullpookie.

After taking adv. class --- you must stand WITH the ministry that taught you vp's word.

After corps graduation --- you must stay salted WITH twi or receive "dropped" status.

After ordination ---- you must stand WITH the man of God and twi or they yank clergy status and report it.

[Twinky]

Hard to "stand on your own" when your legs have been cut out from under you.

Don't you remember in PFAL that VP said a believer will never have to stand alone again?

Of course, that wouldn't be those who have been M&A'd and other believers have been forbidden on pain of their own "excommunication" from speaking with them.

[excathedra]

WTF stand on their own WTF does that mean

as if i care but here i am posting

yeah you can stand on your own once you let wierwille get you on the coach but i guess that would be you lie down on your own pppppffffffftttttt

you know once you've been "taken" sexually by the big creep of our day and time, it changes how you look at everything

but sometimes it takes a while

to me it's no better had it been frikkin rosalie who did it to me

--

or should i say it's no worse

i forget

it's kind of like that thing what do you all say

i could not care less or i could care less :)

[OperaBuff]

it's kind of like that thing what do you all say

i could not care less or i could care less :)

If you care some, then it's possible to care less.

If you care not at all, then it's not possible to care any less.

So the expression is 'I could not care less.'

WTF stand on their own WTF does that mean

as if i care but here i am posting

yeah you can stand on your own once you let wierwille get you on the coach but i guess that would be you lie down on your own pppppffffffftttttt

you know once you've been "taken" sexually by the big creep of our day and time, it changes how you look at everything

but sometimes it takes a while

to me it's no better had it been frikkin rosalie who did it to me

--

or should i say it's no worse

i forget

After what you were put through, you can say it any way you want.

Signed,

OperaBuff

Boy Etymologist

[hiway29]

Stand on your own meant fully indoctrinated into way beliefs, culture, mindset,and every thought filtered through the 'likemindedness'. As long as one has 'rebellious' ideas, doesn't buy into any aspect of the program, or chooses to put family, job, or God forbid-personal interest, over a way meeting , class,or 'commitment', that person is not 'standing on his own', and needs someone watching over him to drip drip drip way thought into him like a percolator (or a water torture?).

[outandabout]

Now that I think about it, why did we have to rope people in and do all we could to keep them in TWI? If it really was done with the love of God, we'd get them into PFAL and then leave them alone. Let them go to twig, don't go to twig, whatever.

[PatAnswer]

Now that I think about it, why did we have to rope people in and do all we could to keep them in TWI? If it really was done with the love of God, we'd get them into PFAL and then leave them alone. Let them go to twig, don't go to twig, whatever.

Here is another example of something I thought I understood clearly until it was explained to me by TWI: In their definition of "What is TWI" it says: (had to go to their site and pull this so I could be accurate)"A follower of The Way is filled with and manifests power from on high, holy spirit, and freely avails himself of fellowship meetings for spiritual nurture and growth."

I always took this to mean that followers could freely avail themselves or not. Emphasis on freely, meaning "in a free manner". Totally up to them. When a follower availed him/herself, they did it freely, willingly, in a free manner.

Then Martindale came along (I don't remember Wierwille saying this) and said what the definition meant was that a follower will freely avail himself, will make him/herself freely available to serve. The emphasis was put on avail (be of use, profit, or advantage to) and every follower was to freely (abundantly, often, at no cost)do it. Obviously I misunderstood that simple definition all along.