They screamed about controlling our minds, yet they couldn't control their tongues.

[100% Free]

On a previous thread it was mentioned how RD swore at someone in an attempt to be loving to someone else. In my experiences, leaders would throw public temper tantrums and use foul language. They were often applauded as if losing control like this was godly. Does anyone have any examples like this to share?

chockfull, on 04 July 2011 - 01:53 PM, said:

The same tired tripe that has been used by countless egomaniac TWI leadership to justify their lack of control over their tongue.

I know this believer guy who bought a window washing business from a WC graaad about to go on staff. The deal was, the wc guy would retain an interest, get a percentage of the profits and believer guy would also make payments.

Well, believer guy started losing the big accounts (he had an odd personality which contributed to the problem) and was unable to keep up the payments to wc guy.

Situation came to light and beleiver guy was M&A for taking on a debt (and probably also for being odd). WC guy got a good talking to about how it was an ungodly deal. He said he learned a lot. But he was not M&A and is on staff to this day.

Believer guy was devastated, loved being in twi. Was not "allowed" to talk to any of the other believers. His world was coming to an end. He told his Mother, who was never in twi. But she felt bad for him so she wanted to help.

She calls the ordained limb cwoord and asked if there was anything she could do to help and tried to explain how devastated her son was to no longer be velcom at der vey.

He responded by telling her "It's none of you f---ing business lady!" and hung up on her. Nice eh?

All that ettiquette taught yet he wasn't decent man. He thought he was great for being disrespectful to an elderly woman.

From the previous thread-All RD did was set a bad example when he swore like that, but nice that he's since apologized for things. He'd probably be embarrassed to know anyone admired him for that incident. It was so long ago and a mistake he probably doesn't want to relive. (I know there are things I said and did that I wouldn't want people admiring to this day.)

BTW- the lc that behaved in such an ungentlemanly manner by swearing at the elderly lady is now a full time paid RC with twi. Probaly has never occured to him to apologize.

Edited July 18, 2011 by 100% Free

[waysider]

Oh, but it was "spiritual" anger, dontcha know?

Hahahahahahahahahah!!

[100% Free]

It's weird really. Even those ettiquette books we were required to learn from would not have justified some of the behavior that went on.

I remember someone sharing how saying the F word sometimes will be the only way to get someone's attention. I could see that, I would yell it if it would stop someone from getting hit by a train.

But the exception became the rule and it seemed like they were swearing all the time.

Edited July 18, 2011 by 100% Free

[DogLover]

People in der Way used "spiritual anger" as an excuse to cover their unGodly behavior, plain and simple.

[Twinky]

Part of it was tied up with the teaching that it was "only words," and real swearing was taking the Lord's name in vain.

I learned some very interesting swear words that I'd never heard before...from "teachings" by LCM.

As if developing a foul mouth really endears us to the people we are trying to win to Christ. Yeah, right. Part of our "freedom in Christ," doncha know, to be able to come out with words that are culturally offensive.

Though while I recall LCM f'ing and blinding at the Corps - I don't recall that anyone would speak to him in the same tone - oh no - had to be respectful to the man-o-Gawd. Double standards...

[WordWolf]

A number of parents reported that their child learned to swear and curse from exposure

to lcm's raving lunacy, his unprepared rants delivered off-the-cuff all through the 1990s.

lcm, of course, was prone to doing that a bit in the 1980s, also, but at that time he was

actually a bit apologetic when he began yelling at his audiences.

(I heard him apologize on tape once immediately after one- he said that the people he was

talking about-in denominations- got him mad.)

lcm, of course, didn't originate it himself. He enshrined and institutionalized what he

learned and observed from vpw. lcm seemed to legitimately think everything vpw told him

was of God- and vpw seemed to know when he was bs-ing and when he wasn't- which was why

vpw's style was more effective. He knew WHICH lies to tell and when. lcm thought he was

doing the right thing.

So, we trace it back to vpw. vpw claimed it was our liberty in Christ that he was preaching,

which allowed him to, in effect, do whatever he wanted and it wouldn't touch him spiritually.

So, he rationalized his drinking, smoking, sex mania, and of course, his foul mouth.

Oddly, he kept his foul mouth hidden whenever a microphone was around- but in private would

curse up a storm when he wanted to.

[waysider]

"Do what you like, as long as you like what you do." ------VP (You know he wasn't really a Dr., don't you?) Wierwille

[100% Free]

Interesting, now that I think about it. It was another way they violated our privacy and right to raise our children as we see fit. How dare the loyster or anyone else for that matter think they have the right to introduce other peoples children to foul language?

Even Hollywood has more respect than some of these twileaders did. They put ratings on movies so parents can know if there is bad language and decide if they want their kids exposed to it.

Yet, that same courtesy was not extended to us by these so called gawdlee twileaders at a so called gawdlee gathering where children were already present.

They took away the right of the parents to decide what's best for their children by ambushing everyone like that.

[WordWolf]

Interesting, now that I think about it. It was another way they violated our privacy and right to raise our children as we see fit. How dare the loyster or anyone else for that matter think they have the right to introduce other peoples children to foul language?

Even Hollywood has more respect than some of these twileaders did. They put ratings on movies so parents can know if there is bad language and decide if they want their kids exposed to it.

Yet, that same courtesy was not extended to us by these so called gawdlee twileaders at a so called gawdlee gathering where children were already present.

They took away the right of the parents to decide what's best for their children by ambushing everyone like that.

lcm didn't do it on purpose- he just didn't care. He was taught by vpw (approximately) that whatever fool thought

passed through the head of the man on the throne was anointed by Gawd Almighty no matter how silly or stupid

that thought was. So, lcm just spewed them out without polishing or any kind of quality control.

vpw knew he himself was a fraud- and calculated the best words to appeal to each audience.

In public, that meant not cursing. (Once the cameras were off, he indulged himself-in every sense of

the word.) So, in private, "closed" meetings, vpw could have a filthy mouth and/or be verbally abusive,

but when the cameras and microphones were on, he was a sweet grandfatherly sort.

So, lcm just spewed all sorts of curses no matter who was around because he didn't care, and if anyone DID

care (not him), he considered the fault to be THEIRS, since he was immune to making mistakes. So if they

were offended by something, it's not because he was offensive and violated good taste- it was because

the other person was oversensitive, carnal, and needed to renew their mind.

Once lcm ran off everyone who was unwilling to bow their knee to his image, the remaining "leaders"

aped him in all sorts of ways, growing facial hair when he did, carrying a briefcase when he did,

and indulging in immature screaming and filthy language whenever they wished rather than exercising

self-control because that was lcm's style. They would have followed him off a cliff if he'd have

jumped first.

[Ham]

I dunno. Sometimes, I think it was well-meaning people put into an impossible situation. then there were others who were just plain sadistic..

rd's response, witnessing.. what do you want to know about god..

how big is is d*C*..

don't you care?

well.. the reply says it all. At least at that moment of another human soul's encounter with reality. If it were that..

we were frigging hippies for crying out loud..

what do I want to know about God..

why did he create math..

I wish he would come back..

DWBH.. where are you, friend..

Christ. He created math, in the humans ten digits..

pretty awesome Cantor thought so..

[Ham]

"Do what you like, as long as you like what you do." ------VP (You know he wasn't really a Dr., don't you?) Wierwille

sounds a lot like.. who was it. Crowley..

[JavaJane]

sounds a lot like.. who was it. Crowley..

*shudder*

Crowley = creepy x 1,000,000

VP didn't look quite as creepy around the eyes, but then again, one was glass. Maybe it helped.

[Ham]

Crowley didn't appear creepy to his followers either..

[JavaJane]

Good point.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

i'm still here my fine skwewwilly fweind!...........we've chimed into two threads recently! it's been a long hibernation, i'm a little rusty, but my dots can still fly................ but i'm workin' my way back to greasespot, with a burnin'love inside...............i keep workin' my way back to greasespot................frankie valie sang it better!!!!!!...................peace.

[johniam]

Interesting, now that I think about it. It was another way they violated our privacy and right to raise our children as we see fit. How dare the loyster or anyone else for that matter think they have the right to introduce other peoples children to foul language?

Even Hollywood has more respect than some of these twileaders did. They put ratings on movies so parents can know if there is bad language and decide if they want their kids exposed to it.

Yet, that same courtesy was not extended to us by these so called gawdlee twileaders at a so called gawdlee gathering where children were already present.

They took away the right of the parents to decide what's best for their children by ambushing everyone like that.

Oh, please. So many rules. I'm a parent. I have the right to raise my children as I see fit. I also use four letter words around the house. My wife is the barometer; if I do it too much she lets me know. She uses them herself. We just told our kids look, if you use those words around the wrong person you're going to get in trouble at school or anywhere. I told them that we (mom and dad) would also get in trouble if we used those words around the wrong person. Never had any complaints from our kids' schools.

In 1983 or so I was a twig cordo. There was a limb meeting featuring John Townsend. He met with us twig cordos first before the big meeting. This was right around the time that Russian plane shot down a plane with Americans on it near Sakhalin Island headed for Seoul, S. Korea. He (JT) said he was spiritually incensed about it. He said if we (America) eat s*** too many more times like that we'd be in bad shape. Something like that. Later at the limb meeting he said the same thing only "eat dirt" rather than the other.

Does anybody really think that certain English syllables, which weren't even invented yet when the bible was written, are, in and of themselves, offensive to God? I posted recently that the word 'swearing' as used in the bible doesn't have anything to do with certain 4 letter English words. To 'swear' or 'forswear thyself' biblically means to make an oath either to God, or in God's name that you have no intention of honoring (Num 30:2, Eccl 9:2). It has more to do with the person's integrity than with the exact speech used.

Children won't be hurt unless you are.

[waysider]

You really just don't "get it", do you, John?

Sad.....Very sad.

[100% Free]

Children won't be hurt unless you are.

Not the point.

It's about respect. You choose to use foul language around your children. That's your business.

But it's not your place or anyone elses to decide that other peoples children have to listen to your foul language.

Self involved people tend to think that if they are comfortable with something then everyone else should be too. Like coughing on you or talking with food in their mouths. I'm not saying you are necesarily self involved- I don't know you.

People going to a bible meeting are going there to hear the bible, not swear words. It is selfish, self indulgent and immature to use a bible meeting to throw a temper tantrum.

So that would be like a smoker with the flu coughing into your face or your childrens and responding with "Children won't be hurt unless you are." It's just plain rude. There are certain common courtesies we offer each other.

It's about respect.

[johniam]

quote:

So that would be like a smoker with the flu coughing into your face or your childrens and responding with "Children won't be hurt unless you are."

That's not at all similar. Using 4 letter words are illegal in some situations, but they don't expose anybody to disease. How ridiculous.

The state agrees with you that if you swear in public you can be arrested. That is like disorderly conduct or creating a disturbance. A disrespect misdemeanor. But you know as well as I do that most people who use 4 letter words don't always do it to show disrespect. Those words can be nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, interjections, even conjunctions, like most other words. They can express hubris and other abbrasive moods, but most twi fellowships I ever attended did not include them. Does Christ in you disappear when those words are uttered?

A certain twi leader once related an incident in which he was talking to a minister and he let the s word slip out. The minister went ballistic and started casting the "spirit of foul language" out of him. The leader folded his arms and waited for the minister to finish, then said, "Didn't f'ing work, did it?" Do you think that minister was controlling his tongue? How about his mind? If it's OK for that minister to get 'spiritually angry', then it's OK for anybody else to also.

If it's about respect then it's about quality of life. As you say, we each make those choices for our own lives.

Edited July 24, 2011 by johniam

[waysider]

If it's OK for that minister to get 'spiritually angry', then it's OK for anybody else to also.

Why does this remind me of something my mother used to say about jumping off of a bridge?

Edited July 24, 2011 by waysider

[100% Free]

quote:

So that would be like a smoker with the flu coughing into your face or your childrens and responding with "Children won't be hurt unless you are."

That's not at all similar. Using 4 letter words are illegal in some situations, but they don't expose anybody to disease. How ridiculous.

Actually, it is similar. It seems you are still missing the point. It's about respect, considering how what you are doing affects other people.

The state agrees with you that if you swear in public you can be arrested.

LOL. I never knew that but it makes sense. Maybe we should have called 911. LOL.

Does Christ in you disappear when those words are uttered?

Of course not- It doesn't disappear if someone coughs in your face either.

A certain twi leader once related an incident in which he was talking to a minister and he let the s word slip out. The minister went ballistic and started casting the "spirit of foul language" out of him. The leader folded his arms and waited for the minister to finish, then said, "Didn't f'ing work, did it?" Do you think that minister was controlling his tongue? How about his mind? If it's OK for that minister to get 'spiritually angry', then it's OK for anybody else to also.

We've all been exposed to poor quality of Christian Leadership in twi. For that so called minister to carry on like that and try to cast out a spirit over the s word slipping also shows he wasn't just an inept leader- he was a nut job.

IMHO I think leaders in twi swore and yelled in meetings because they were trying to cover up the fact that they had no clue how to help, minister or inspire. It was all grand standing to distract everyone.

They spent their time lording over others, being waited on hand and foot, and demanding attention. They were not developing themselves as ministers so when it came time to actually minister they failed miserably.

If it's about respect then it's about quality of life. As you say, we each make those choices for our own lives.

It is about respect. It's about caring how you affect other people.

Self involved disrespectful people think everyone should be comfortable with what they are comfortable with.

Edited July 24, 2011 by 100% Free

[chockfull]

Looking back on this from my perspective now, I think that all the screaming and yelling in many cases was a cover for ineptitude.

For example, a leader doesn't have the background or education to help people in a certain category of counseling, just yell at them and tell them to get it together.

Not enough numbers for your ego? Scream a little.

A class isn't selling itself? All that takes is having the microphone and a little tirade.

And all the propoganda in the current bunch of dimwits on the BOD regarding a "kinder, gentler ministry"? It's a lie. They still curse, and still yell. They just do it behind closed doors, and put on a different face for the public. Or even worse, like the "Fox". Smile to someone's face, character assassinate behind their back.

[socks]

To sort out the red herrings from the sushi -

Defining "swearing" from the bible doesn't relate to the topic directly or even indirectly. I guess there's some historical fuzz that informs the modern use of the word 'swearing" when it's used to mean what we might loosely call "bad words" but the fact that the biblical definition of swearing to an oath is different than.......well, it's a silly point IMO.

As an adult I try not to allow or disallow what I do or say based on what someone else does or doesn't do or say. Ya gotta set your own standards be they from the bible, or whatever, understand what you do and why and then act thoughtfully.

I missed most of the Cuss Bucket era of Craig's. He was straight as an arrow language wise when I first met him and for years after. Maybe this reflects an area he was being told he need to "loosen up in if he was really going to minister to God's people". :biglaugh:

Obviously it was successful as he's been cursed to he ll and back by more people than I'm sure he ever thought possible. Mission accomplished.

If this is still happening at the Way it's only because it's a captive audience. They can hide at the Way Nash and do whatever they want. They can rub possum pe e on their waffles and eat them with their toes. In public? Different story, isn't it?

It's a social cultural thing IMO, and what the words mean and are intended to mean when they're said.

Using certain words in contexts where the people around are offended....

DUH. Only a boorishly oafish gumball would insist on using language that is offensive to his or her audience. As if to say, I'm going to offend you by this language I'm using and that's GOOD, because I'm making a point.....or I should be free enough to say whatever I want.....or hey, YOU are the weirdo being offended.......or....or.....or.....

At the end of the day - if someone insists on using language offensive to their audience, they get what's coming to them. It should come as no surprise to anyone that if you pull out the stuff like that you know that will shock or insult someone - guess what -

You're going to get what's coming to you.

[socks]

And to add - VPW would shoot off about anything that got under his craw.....at the Way Nash, on Corps Night, The Woods, or in meetings there or on the field. Sometimes it was fine, sometimes it seemed like he was just goin' off as we say, for no good reason, because his pride had taken a hit or was just being vindictive. Generally he was short on the use of profanity but knew how to make a comment sting or cut. An interesting case study there. He could be insulting and offensive without ever dropping an "F" bomb, or a S--t storm.

Whatever the case he NEVER went to completely external audiences and spoke or taught. His presentations were always in-house, planned and run by Way representatives.

He'd pretty much always say whatever he wanted to anyway regardless but I think it's good to remember that he always did internal facing teachings and meetings, speak to Wayfers and their guests.

[skyrider]

And to add - VPW would shoot off about anything that got under his craw.....at the Way Nash, on Corps Night, The Woods, or in meetings there or on the field. Sometimes it was fine, sometimes it seemed like he was just goin' off as we say, for no good reason, because his pride had taken a hit or was just being vindictive. Generally he was short on the use of profanity but knew how to make a comment sting or cut. An interesting case study there. He could be insulting and offensive without ever dropping an "F" bomb, or a S--t storm.

Whatever the case he NEVER went to completely external audiences and spoke or taught. His presentations were always in-house, planned and run by Way representatives.

He'd pretty much always say whatever he wanted to anyway regardless but I think it's good to remember that he always did internal facing teachings and meetings, speak to Wayfers and their guests.

Now.....being far removed from the wierwille-idolatry daily presentation, the guy was a narcissist of the first order. Wierwille was an arrogant blow-hard and incessant liar who plagairized wholesale content. He will be rewarded (cough, cough) accordingly....and will inherit the dust of the wind.

Like any abuser, wierwille knew how to read people, push buttons, and manipulate to the max behind closed doors. From public view, wierwille had built an inner circle of yes-men and bodyguards who would jump at his every command. In my opinion, wierwille attempted to make the whole corps in the image of himself......BUT corps and clergy started revolting around 1978.

Here on GS, I've documented many of these claims as Limb coordinators and Clergy exited "the man of God." And, then.....corps meetings started including verbal assaults on the character of the corps, the salt commitment, the allegiance to twi, etc. All of this stuff PRECEDED martindale's ascent to the throne......but few ever come forward to document this.

When all else failed.....the last trick in the deck for wierwille was, "You break my heart when you don't stand on the Word." Yeah, riiiight.

Now, I believe.....THOSE WHO LEFT WERE STANDING ON THE WORD TO LEAVE TWI.