Yes, we all four stayed the entire year; psychologically abandoned, adrift and completely dysfunctional, but we stayed together. Funny how much the human mind can seemingly tolerate. On the drive back to the Rock, we weren't speaking. We stopped for the night at some believer's house, but I decided to sleep in our WOWmobile. After the Rock, I stopped associating with TWI and soon began using recreational drugs on a daily basis. I snapped out of it in a few years.
This reenforces something to me. In 1982 LCM was lamenting the fact that in twi the "dropout rate" was highest the year after the wow year, like it was a bad thing. I think it's a good thing. Wow let everybody know what they were in for if they continued in twi. Before wow, you could basically lead a double life. At twig you put on your twi face; everywhere else you put on whatever face you want. Not as being double minded; more like still sorting things out. As a wow, you're with believers 24/7. No place for the other face, if you will.
After a year of that, some folks want MORE! Others...not so much. Wow enabled us to make a more informed decision as to whether to continue in twi. I think that's a good thing whatever their decision was.
quote:
This is the unaltered response of someone who SUPPORTS the idea of the original and the current programs.
Personally, I think it makes a stronger argument that the thing is TOXIC than anything I can post.
Let me get this straight. You take ONE occasional incident from ONE wow family out of all the thousands of wow families there were/are. And it's "toxic"? Why, of COURSE it's an objective opinion.
This reenforces something to me. In 1982 LCM was lamenting the fact that in twi the "dropout rate" was highest the year after the wow year, like it was a bad thing. I think it's a good thing. Wow let everybody know what they were in for if they continued in twi. Before wow, you could basically lead a double life. At twig you put on your twi face; everywhere else you put on whatever face you want. Not as being double minded; more like still sorting things out. As a wow, you're with believers 24/7. No place for the other face, if you will.
After a year of that, some folks want MORE! Others...not so much. Wow enabled us to make a more informed decision as to whether to continue in twi. I think that's a good thing whatever their decision was.
Your choice in pronouns fascinates me, and exposes you. I was born and raised in a Christian family, believers all. I was with believers 24/7 since the day I was born. If my earthly brother had behaved as my WOW brother had behaved, my earthly father would have put a stop to it. It is telling that TWI HQ found no serious problem with my WOW brother's behavior on the field. HQ often removed WOWs from the field for one reason or another, but not this New Knoxville kid. He got to stay, and because the three of us knew that this guy knew Dr, we felt trapped and stuck in an unhealthy situation, knowing we had no way out except to pack ourselves up and leave the field. That was an unacceptable choice to us. It wasn't until I came here to GSC and started reading and hearing about the manipulative and sexually incontinent behavior condoned and practiced by TWI leadership that I started to put 2 and 2 together. I finally understand, all these years later, why the wiener-wagger received only a slap on the wrist.
This is the unaltered response of someone who SUPPORTS the idea of the original and the current programs.
Personally, I think it makes a stronger argument that the thing is TOXIC than anything I can post.
Let me get this straight. You take ONE occasional incident from ONE wow family out of all the thousands of wow families there were/are. And it's "toxic"? Why, of COURSE it's an objective opinion.
Glad you asked my assistance to get this straight.
Although the incident itself was disquieting to say the least (and worthy of an arrest otherwise),
it was the "unaltered response of someone who SUPPORTS the idea of the original and the current programs"
(to be clearer-YOUR response, the response of someone who supports both ideas)
that I felt illustrated how dysfunctional (and TOXIC, for reasons I think are clear)
than any argument I can make against either program.
That's not an "objective" opinion-but it is an INFORMED one.
Is "the rude truth" you're referring to that "she needed to masturbate more"?
Yes.
Ya know, I have tried really hard to see your perspective on things. In the end, I can only conclude you are one truly sick and twisted puppy. And yeah, it is a personal attack and the moderators can go ahead and smack me for saying it.
I am not sure where this thread is going. I personally thanked Waysider for informing us that the WOW Program was in swing again. I looked up the reference. I wrote a short letter to "Little Vic, whoever he is, like VPW's son, whatever.. I asked him to please not send anyone to Colorado Springs or Denver, promising that if I found out about it..that I would go to their residence and confront them on what I understand the Way to be still teaching, i.e. the "Tithe'. I made a mistake some years ago, I picketed the home of the Limb Leader of Arizona's home, this was like 1986. The police arrived, asked me to leave, and I refused. I spent a night in jail, ended up paying a fine of a little over three hundred dollars. Lesson learned. With regard to the re-vised WOW program, well what is good for the goose is good for the gander. it's unlikely I will discover any WOW's in colorado, however if that does happen, well it just so happens I have a door to door ministry with regard to WOW Ambassadors, explaining to them directly, however meekly, that "the LAW" kills members of the Body of Christ's spiritual walk...not a good thing, you know??
"People are noticing the junkies in the area now, but they’ve always been here."
Yes, the seedy side of TWI was always there. We just couldn't see it through our idealism coated glasses......everyone needs a new prescription, eventually.
From the looks of it, Vic's grandson (Sowers),is closely following the programs instituted by his grandpa...I hope he leaves out the parts that included plagiarism, adultery and lying about people...
...but even if he does, the doctrine is grossly incorrect.
Opera Buff was assigned to the town I had just left, which had 2 rather large, established branches. In fact, he was 2 blocks away from the very house I lived in for the first 10 years of my life.
You gotta remember, devil spirits must've worked overtime trying to mess with wow families. I know of 2 other wow war stories worse than the ones already on this thread.
1) Guy from Connecticut got sent to MI. 4 guys in the family. One guy from Georgia has issues. 2/3 of the way through the year he points a loaded rifle at the other 3 guys. He gets kicked off the field. 6 weeks later, he gets allowed back. The guy from CT couldn't believe it. Nobody died.
2) Guy from STL finally decides to go wow 7 years after he took pfal. Interesting guy. His first ministry event (1979) was a 1950s style halloween party. He came with a leather jacket, hair combed like Sha na na, Lucky Strikes rolled up in his T shirt sleeve, and a few other accessories. He won 1st prize for his costume. Only thing was...he wasn't WEARING a costume. That was how he looked all the time. He was a good guy, though. Then he got sent to Jamaica Plains in the Boston area. Didn't have much interest in fellowship after that. What turned him off? Legalism. This was the year immediately after the pop paper came out. Poor guy; they just wouldn't let him be.
About the family with the turd bit; this girl really needed to lighten up and it worked. She actually considered it loving (oh boy, he's chasing me again, tee hee). The guy never soiled her, he was just doing it to gross her out (lighten her up). That's how it was explained to me.
I don't know about anybody else, but I was not impressed with Bob Matheson, the wow czar. He was on a tape once and he said he thought war stories hurt the wow program. He said one common story was about having to eat mac and cheese and pb and j sandwiches. "WHY CAN"T YOU BELIEVE TO EAT STEAK!!!" He came off to me as a real blowhard. Not long after that it made me happy to hear LCM say "need some more war stories? Heck, go wow!"
Masturbation a strategy? Let's see. I don't have a sex partner, and I hate waiting for Jesus to give me another wet dream, so...HEY! I've GOT it!
You gotta remember, devil spirits must've worked overtime trying to mess with wow families. I know of 2 other wow war stories worse than the ones already on this thread.
1) Guy from Connecticut got sent to MI. 4 guys in the family. One guy from Georgia has issues. 2/3 of the way through the year he points a loaded rifle at the other 3 guys. He gets kicked off the field. 6 weeks later, he gets allowed back. The guy from CT couldn't believe it. Nobody died.
2) Guy from STL finally decides to go wow 7 years after he took pfal. Interesting guy. His first ministry event (1979) was a 1950s style halloween party. He came with a leather jacket, hair combed like Sha na na, Lucky Strikes rolled up in his T shirt sleeve, and a few other accessories. He won 1st prize for his costume. Only thing was...he wasn't WEARING a costume. That was how he looked all the time. He was a good guy, though. Then he got sent to Jamaica Plains in the Boston area. Didn't have much interest in fellowship after that. What turned him off? Legalism. This was the year immediately after the pop paper came out. Poor guy; they just wouldn't let him be.
About the family with the turd bit; this girl really needed to lighten up and it worked. She actually considered it loving (oh boy, he's chasing me again, tee hee). The guy never soiled her, he was just doing it to gross her out (lighten her up). That's how it was explained to me.
I don't know about anybody else, but I was not impressed with Bob Matheson, the wow czar. He was on a tape once and he said he thought war stories hurt the wow program. He said one common story was about having to eat mac and cheese and pb and j sandwiches. "WHY CAN"T YOU BELIEVE TO EAT STEAK!!!" He came off to me as a real blowhard. Not long after that it made me happy to hear LCM say "need some more war stories? Heck, go wow!"
Masturbation a strategy? Let's see. I don't have a sex partner, and I hate waiting for Jesus to give me another wet dream, so...HEY! I've GOT it!
It seems you "got it".. or at least along the way, you always figured that you really "had it"..
what I really think. You were sent to observe this insanity, much as I was..
Plus we were all so young. I was 23 when I was a wow. That's not far removed from college frat age. I remember, too, it only cost $150. to go, not 400.
So Waysider, you have now concluded there's no such thing as devil spirits? Zac Brodeur doesn't have any? How about Jared Loughner? It's one extreme to see them everywhere (1994 purges), but it's another extreme to not see them at all.
Plus we were all so young. I was 23 when I was a wow. That's not far removed from college frat age. I remember, too, it only cost $150. to go, not 400.
So Waysider, you have now concluded there's no such thing as devil spirits? Zac Brodeur doesn't have any? How about Jared Loughner? It's one extreme to see them everywhere (1994 purges), but it's another extreme to not see them at all.
If devil spirits are real and fit the profile that was outlined in the Advanced Class, Wierwille, himself, was a poster child for possession.
About the family with the turd bit; this girl really needed to lighten up and it worked. She actually considered it loving (oh boy, he's chasing me again, tee hee). The guy never soiled her, he was just doing it to gross her out (lighten her up). That's how it was explained to me.
Did you actually know this woman personally or are you basing your opinion on one side of a WOW war story? Because when I read this story what I see is someone seriously violating someone else's personal boundaries in a way that would be unacceptable in almost any society (except perhaps among 2 year olds).
Then again, there is a logic to it that does fit. A large part of what took place in TWI was about violating someone's personal boundaries to the point that they no longer had any. Much easier for leadership to dictate someone else's life, to get someone to the place of "spiritual maturity" such that they can violate them emotionally, spiritually, sexually, etc - by teaching them it is somehow wrong and shameful to have personal boundaries. But it was okay cause it was all in the name of "lightening up."
Plus we were all so young. I was 23 when I was a wow. That's not far removed from college frat age. I remember, too, it only cost $150. to go, not 400.
Never heard of inflation?
When I went WOW it was £50.00 - by comparison a packet of cigarettes was 30p-40p. Now they are between £6-£8 a pack.
As for petrol (gasoline) you could get a GALLON (8 imperial pints) for 50p now it's £1.38 a LITRE (4.454 of those to an imperial gallon).
Our first week's rent was £10.00 - now £150-200 is the average.
Just make your own US comparisons from your own experience!
I would say that the amount allowed now is nothing like the equivalent of then.
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PatAnswer
Johniam, I'm so glad you're here. When I was lurking on this site there were times when I considered that maybe what I learned and how I thought while in TWI was not all that bad, that we're all just
OperaBuff
Whaddaya mean, throw darts? God Himself chose my WOW brother for me. ha. ha ha. haha. hahaha. Haha! Hahaha!! HAHAHAHA!!! My WOW brother was also our family coordinator for the first few month
Broken Arrow
He should have been removed from the field via Super Sonic Transport. Most other organizations would have done so. That would have been pure hell to live with for an entire year. That's sexual abuse,
johniam
quote:
Just so I'm clear about what you meant...
Is "the rude truth" you're referring to that "she needed to masturbate more"?
Yes.
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johniam
quote:
Yes, we all four stayed the entire year; psychologically abandoned, adrift and completely dysfunctional, but we stayed together. Funny how much the human mind can seemingly tolerate. On the drive back to the Rock, we weren't speaking. We stopped for the night at some believer's house, but I decided to sleep in our WOWmobile. After the Rock, I stopped associating with TWI and soon began using recreational drugs on a daily basis. I snapped out of it in a few years.
This reenforces something to me. In 1982 LCM was lamenting the fact that in twi the "dropout rate" was highest the year after the wow year, like it was a bad thing. I think it's a good thing. Wow let everybody know what they were in for if they continued in twi. Before wow, you could basically lead a double life. At twig you put on your twi face; everywhere else you put on whatever face you want. Not as being double minded; more like still sorting things out. As a wow, you're with believers 24/7. No place for the other face, if you will.
After a year of that, some folks want MORE! Others...not so much. Wow enabled us to make a more informed decision as to whether to continue in twi. I think that's a good thing whatever their decision was.
quote:
This is the unaltered response of someone who SUPPORTS the idea of the original and the current programs.
Personally, I think it makes a stronger argument that the thing is TOXIC than anything I can post.
Let me get this straight. You take ONE occasional incident from ONE wow family out of all the thousands of wow families there were/are. And it's "toxic"? Why, of COURSE it's an objective opinion.
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OperaBuff
Your choice in pronouns fascinates me, and exposes you. I was born and raised in a Christian family, believers all. I was with believers 24/7 since the day I was born. If my earthly brother had behaved as my WOW brother had behaved, my earthly father would have put a stop to it. It is telling that TWI HQ found no serious problem with my WOW brother's behavior on the field. HQ often removed WOWs from the field for one reason or another, but not this New Knoxville kid. He got to stay, and because the three of us knew that this guy knew Dr, we felt trapped and stuck in an unhealthy situation, knowing we had no way out except to pack ourselves up and leave the field. That was an unacceptable choice to us. It wasn't until I came here to GSC and started reading and hearing about the manipulative and sexually incontinent behavior condoned and practiced by TWI leadership that I started to put 2 and 2 together. I finally understand, all these years later, why the wiener-wagger received only a slap on the wrist.
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WordWolf
Glad you asked my assistance to get this straight.
Although the incident itself was disquieting to say the least (and worthy of an arrest otherwise),
it was the "unaltered response of someone who SUPPORTS the idea of the original and the current programs"
(to be clearer-YOUR response, the response of someone who supports both ideas)
that I felt illustrated how dysfunctional (and TOXIC, for reasons I think are clear)
than any argument I can make against either program.
That's not an "objective" opinion-but it is an INFORMED one.
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Abigail
Ya know, I have tried really hard to see your perspective on things. In the end, I can only conclude you are one truly sick and twisted puppy. And yeah, it is a personal attack and the moderators can go ahead and smack me for saying it.
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mchud11
I am not sure where this thread is going. I personally thanked Waysider for informing us that the WOW Program was in swing again. I looked up the reference. I wrote a short letter to "Little Vic, whoever he is, like VPW's son, whatever.. I asked him to please not send anyone to Colorado Springs or Denver, promising that if I found out about it..that I would go to their residence and confront them on what I understand the Way to be still teaching, i.e. the "Tithe'. I made a mistake some years ago, I picketed the home of the Limb Leader of Arizona's home, this was like 1986. The police arrived, asked me to leave, and I refused. I spent a night in jail, ended up paying a fine of a little over three hundred dollars. Lesson learned. With regard to the re-vised WOW program, well what is good for the goose is good for the gander. it's unlikely I will discover any WOW's in colorado, however if that does happen, well it just so happens I have a door to door ministry with regard to WOW Ambassadors, explaining to them directly, however meekly, that "the LAW" kills members of the Body of Christ's spiritual walk...not a good thing, you know??
love you guys,
Michael Chudzinski
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sirguessalot
masturbation is a strategy...not a need
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Ham
what strategy?
no, I am not mocking you friend..
need.. schmeed. To quote another friend..
"any port in a storm.."
it is a very disturbed rendition of maslov's hierarchy of need (?)..
you know.
Without being TOO graphic.
It's not wanted here, maybe its wanted there.. if it isn't wanted there.. maybe it can find a home, but where..
I hope this does not get me moderated.
But this really describes how some human beings I have met in life, how they really think..
wow is dead, long live wow..
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Ham
This is really cool..
http://www.upress.umn.edu/sles/Chapter5/ch5-3.html
why can't we do the same here..
probably because they could not entirely do the same there..
the commercialism always seems to live on..
To quote the article.. "there is no love here anymore, everyone is scared to death.."
except for a few leading others on an unsustainable farm in Mississippi..
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Ham
when they did that "internment"..
so very interesting..
those who chose to continue to sell, were selling dead body parts..
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waysider
"People are noticing the junkies in the area now, but they’ve always been here."
Yes, the seedy side of TWI was always there. We just couldn't see it through our idealism coated glasses......everyone needs a new prescription, eventually.
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So_crates
And when I went on the feild in '75 Saint Vic was on stage telling everyone he'd stayed up all night SITtin to be sure they got it all right.
So, how did they pick who would be on the feild with who?
SoCrates
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mchud11
As far as I know, the best way to make decisions is with a dartboard, or picking out a scrap of paper from a hat...
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frank123lol
I took the class in Mississippi,went back to Michigan.Went wow to Mississippi
Saw my wow sister and said "I met you a couple of years ago".Some planning
form the way.
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GrouchoMarxJr
From the looks of it, Vic's grandson (Sowers),is closely following the programs instituted by his grandpa...I hope he leaves out the parts that included plagiarism, adultery and lying about people...
...but even if he does, the doctrine is grossly incorrect.
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waysider
Opera Buff was assigned to the town I had just left, which had 2 rather large, established branches. In fact, he was 2 blocks away from the very house I lived in for the first 10 years of my life.
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johniam
You gotta remember, devil spirits must've worked overtime trying to mess with wow families. I know of 2 other wow war stories worse than the ones already on this thread.
1) Guy from Connecticut got sent to MI. 4 guys in the family. One guy from Georgia has issues. 2/3 of the way through the year he points a loaded rifle at the other 3 guys. He gets kicked off the field. 6 weeks later, he gets allowed back. The guy from CT couldn't believe it. Nobody died.
2) Guy from STL finally decides to go wow 7 years after he took pfal. Interesting guy. His first ministry event (1979) was a 1950s style halloween party. He came with a leather jacket, hair combed like Sha na na, Lucky Strikes rolled up in his T shirt sleeve, and a few other accessories. He won 1st prize for his costume. Only thing was...he wasn't WEARING a costume. That was how he looked all the time. He was a good guy, though. Then he got sent to Jamaica Plains in the Boston area. Didn't have much interest in fellowship after that. What turned him off? Legalism. This was the year immediately after the pop paper came out. Poor guy; they just wouldn't let him be.
About the family with the turd bit; this girl really needed to lighten up and it worked. She actually considered it loving (oh boy, he's chasing me again, tee hee). The guy never soiled her, he was just doing it to gross her out (lighten her up). That's how it was explained to me.
I don't know about anybody else, but I was not impressed with Bob Matheson, the wow czar. He was on a tape once and he said he thought war stories hurt the wow program. He said one common story was about having to eat mac and cheese and pb and j sandwiches. "WHY CAN"T YOU BELIEVE TO EAT STEAK!!!" He came off to me as a real blowhard. Not long after that it made me happy to hear LCM say "need some more war stories? Heck, go wow!"
Masturbation a strategy? Let's see. I don't have a sex partner, and I hate waiting for Jesus to give me another wet dream, so...HEY! I've GOT it!
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waysider
Yeah, that's it....must be devil spirits.
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Ham
It seems you "got it".. or at least along the way, you always figured that you really "had it"..
what I really think. You were sent to observe this insanity, much as I was..
how does this effect eternity.. I dunno..
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johniam
Plus we were all so young. I was 23 when I was a wow. That's not far removed from college frat age. I remember, too, it only cost $150. to go, not 400.
So Waysider, you have now concluded there's no such thing as devil spirits? Zac Brodeur doesn't have any? How about Jared Loughner? It's one extreme to see them everywhere (1994 purges), but it's another extreme to not see them at all.
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waysider
If devil spirits are real and fit the profile that was outlined in the Advanced Class, Wierwille, himself, was a poster child for possession.
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johniam
If...?
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Abigail
Did you actually know this woman personally or are you basing your opinion on one side of a WOW war story? Because when I read this story what I see is someone seriously violating someone else's personal boundaries in a way that would be unacceptable in almost any society (except perhaps among 2 year olds).
Then again, there is a logic to it that does fit. A large part of what took place in TWI was about violating someone's personal boundaries to the point that they no longer had any. Much easier for leadership to dictate someone else's life, to get someone to the place of "spiritual maturity" such that they can violate them emotionally, spiritually, sexually, etc - by teaching them it is somehow wrong and shameful to have personal boundaries. But it was okay cause it was all in the name of "lightening up."
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Trefor Heywood
Never heard of inflation?
When I went WOW it was £50.00 - by comparison a packet of cigarettes was 30p-40p. Now they are between £6-£8 a pack.
As for petrol (gasoline) you could get a GALLON (8 imperial pints) for 50p now it's £1.38 a LITRE (4.454 of those to an imperial gallon).
Our first week's rent was £10.00 - now £150-200 is the average.
Just make your own US comparisons from your own experience!
I would say that the amount allowed now is nothing like the equivalent of then.
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