I think from time to time we all did. I can definitely remember during my three months of he11 at Rome City having to pretend I didn't hate every single minute of it. In both programs (like Waysider, I was FLO) there were meaningless tasks repeated over and over and over.
I still fail to see the greatness of washing that long staircase in the main building at RC with Murphy's Oil Soap then waxing and polishing it every single day, sometimes twice a day.
As far as teachings go, some of the basic tenets of TWI were never explained to my complete satisfaction. Nor has it helped that I've gone to many churches and heard some of the same scriptures taught with equal conviction and a very different interpretation.
Ugh. I remember having to write those sappy 'bless' letters to LCM and other leadership after a class. I figured out to make them sound like those letters in the Way Mag and all would be well.
Maybe this was a corps thing, but I was never grilled by anyone after a teaching as to whether I liked/understood it. PLus, to this day I often space out during a teaching and think about something else for a few minutes, either something in my daily life or something word related NOT what is being taught.
Well, now that I think about it, one time Donnie Fugit's wife, Becky was just finished teaching and Donnie reproved us all saying "75% of you did NOT believe what she just taught". But that was rare.
As for 'fake it till you make it', at this one job I had we all had to LOOK busy for prolonged periods of time and I got into the habit of sitting on the toilet without intending to put anything in it just to pass the time.
I remember faking singing alot. Every teaching, every meeting, every twig fellowship we would sing a couple of songs and I just got so bored and tired of it in the Corps that I would entertain myself by lip syncing.
I faked it on LEAD. A friend of mine complained so much that she had to do LEAD twice in one year, YIKES! That wasn't going to happen to me so I kept my mouth shut, did what they said and hated every minute of it; except for my Solo/Duo where I was left alone to read the Novel I hid in my backpack.
I was stuck in a crevice and couldn't pull myself out of it. Oh, I was believing, and I was trying but there was just no way someone with no upper body strength (me) was getting out of there without some major help. Finally, after keeping my mouth shut long enough, not complaining and giving it the old "heave ho" every once in awhile, those in leadership decided "enough was enough". They instructed me to "Believe Really Big" and "Try Really Hard" and sure enough I felt a nice strong tug from the rope at my waist and UP I came out of the crevice.
I also faked "Staying Awake" for all those long, boring teachings, but not always successfully!
All the "fake it 'til you make it.", "If I act excited, I'll be excited.", "Life is tremendous!" sort of doctrine that was being promoted by The Way during the 1970s is straight out of secular sales training classes and books (ie:Life Is Tremendous!/Charlie Jones, The Greatest Salesman in The World/Og Mandino, How To Make Friends And Influence People/Dale Carnegie, etc.) So, then, you might ask yourself... why were we being groomed as salesmen instead of servants of our fellow man? Well, the answer is obvious, PFAL was VPW's product and we were his sales force. After that reality sets in, you can start to ponder this... If the Bible really has every thing you need to know about everything and anything, why weren't we trained using scriptural materials rather than all these non-Biblical/pseudo-Biblical sources?
I think this carried over into other areas of life. For example, if you felt sick that was a negative attitude/believing and if you acted and confessed "I FEEL GRRREEEAAATTT!" eventually you would start feeling better physically.
One time in FLO, I was slated to accompany some other FLO's to Columbus and teach a twig there. I had the mother of all migraines that evening and informed my superiors that I was out of commission and would not be accompanying anyone to Columbus; there were better teachers than I involved anyway so they would have to figure it out.
Next thing I knew, the women's coordinator and the house leader held me down in my bed and ministered to me! Did I ask for prayer? No I asked for a couple of aspirin and peace and quiet.
I was told to confess positives, such as "I did not have a headache, I felt wonderful, I was healed".
Needless to say, I went to Columbus and taught the twig. Wish I could confess a positive that my headache disappeared, but alas, while it did abate after a while, I still felt like crap the entire evening.
Hey! Here's something we could fake. Let's pretend fake that what we were involved with was some sort of noble cause. Maybe then the outcome will magically change. Yeah, that's it. Let's get a web page or something and talk about how we were once God's elite, front line troops.....Fake it 'til you make it.
quote: So, then, you might ask yourself... why were we being groomed as salesmen instead of servants of our fellow man? Well, the answer is obvious, PFAL was VPW's product and we were his sales force. After that reality sets in, you can start to ponder this... If the Bible really has every thing you need to know about everything and anything, why weren't we trained using scriptural materials rather than all these non-Biblical/pseudo-Biblical sources?
You're right, Waysider. We WERE like a sales force. So what? Why is that automatically "unchristian". What we did got the word of God to people and that's what counts. I know you doubt that, but you don't speak for everybody who ever took pfal. Many of us are still grateful for having done so. I think VP was clever for applying sales techniques to modern day Christianity. It worked; thousands of us found it helpful.
Well it was a long time ago, but for sure my twig coordinator (or whatever we called the people who we answered to on Lead). Also, and this is just an assumption, everyone else who had made it to the top already and were sick and tired of waiting for me to get my sorry butt up there so they could move on!
Taxicab, who tugged on your rope? Don't leave me hanging like that!
Taxicab, who tugged on your rope? Don't leave me hanging like that!
Well it was a long time ago, but for sure my twig coordinator (or whatever we called the people who we answered to on Lead). Also, and this is just an assumption, everyone else who had made it to the top already and were sick and tired of waiting for me to get my sorry butt up there so they could move on!
You're right, Waysider. We WERE like a sales force. So what? Why is that automatically "unchristian". What we did got the word of God to people and that's what counts. I know you doubt that, but you don't speak for everybody who ever took pfal. Many of us are still grateful for having done so. I think VP was clever for applying sales techniques to modern day Christianity. It worked; thousands of us found it helpful.
Jesus certainly wasn't "faking it" on the cross.
I don`t know about unchristian, I do think it is down right wrong. God certainly doesn`t need a sales force to move in peoples hearts and lives. He isn`t a product to be peddled period. So scripture was packaged and marketed in an attractive form....it is nothing ... a tinkling cymbal nothing more than pretty sound... without charity, without the love of God behind it..
I think it extremely detrimental. People were taught and believed that knowledge of the scriptures and operation of the principles there in equated with being christian and walking in the spirit. The arrogance of this misconception can prevent one from ever actually enjoying a genuine spirit filled walk in this life. It`s all works.
All interesting, but the bit that I was thinking of in connection with this thread starts about 3/4 the way down the article: Corrie on Funding her work
You're right, Waysider. We WERE like a sales force. So what? Why is that automatically "unchristian"
John, do you ever tire of these same old, faulty debate techniques?
I never said that being a sales force is "un-Christian". That's simply a straw man argument.
My point was this: Did you become involved with The Way, knowing you would be required to function as a salesman? Did anyone go WOW, Minuteman, Corps, FellowLaborer, etc., with the knowledge they were being used as an unpaid sales force? And, bear in mind that, many of the sales techniques that were used to promote PFAL would be considered by many people to be unethical and deceptive. "Fake it 'til you make it" would be one of them, along with such things as engaging in sexual activity to get people to sign "the green card", otherwise known as "date and switch". What is your stance on the usage of such methods? Were you aware these methods were being used during your involvement?
. What we did got the word of God to people and that's what counts.
Do you really believe that? Even after 11 years of examining the plagiarism and faulty "research" that went into making PFAL? It wasn't God's Word, John. It was a simple Bible class. Not a very good one, either.
I know you doubt that, but you don't speak for everybody who ever took pfal.
I never said I spoke for anyone other than myself.
Many of us are still grateful for having done so. I think VP was clever for applying sales techniques to modern day Christianity. It worked; thousands of us found it helpful.
Jesus certainly wasn't "faking it" on the cross.
Why would you interject this, John? I invite you to demonstrate how it has any relevance to the topic at hand.
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waysider
All the "fake it 'til you make it.", "If I act excited, I'll be excited.", "Life is tremendous!" sort of doctrine that was being promoted by The Way during the 1970s is straight out of secular sales t
waysider
I think that was standard M.O. for any of the so-called "programs". People outside of The Way just call it self delusion.
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Watered Garden
I think from time to time we all did. I can definitely remember during my three months of he11 at Rome City having to pretend I didn't hate every single minute of it. In both programs (like Waysider, I was FLO) there were meaningless tasks repeated over and over and over.
I still fail to see the greatness of washing that long staircase in the main building at RC with Murphy's Oil Soap then waxing and polishing it every single day, sometimes twice a day.
As far as teachings go, some of the basic tenets of TWI were never explained to my complete satisfaction. Nor has it helped that I've gone to many churches and heard some of the same scriptures taught with equal conviction and a very different interpretation.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
that was so Vic and Craig would slip and break their necks
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outandabout
We laughed at the stupid jokes in PFAL because we were told to.
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Bramble
Ugh. I remember having to write those sappy 'bless' letters to LCM and other leadership after a class. I figured out to make them sound like those letters in the Way Mag and all would be well.
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cman
easy to fake about what was fake
except we expected more
which would not come
cause there wasn't any real substance
many honest hearts betrayed and used
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johniam
Maybe this was a corps thing, but I was never grilled by anyone after a teaching as to whether I liked/understood it. PLus, to this day I often space out during a teaching and think about something else for a few minutes, either something in my daily life or something word related NOT what is being taught.
Well, now that I think about it, one time Donnie Fugit's wife, Becky was just finished teaching and Donnie reproved us all saying "75% of you did NOT believe what she just taught". But that was rare.
As for 'fake it till you make it', at this one job I had we all had to LOOK busy for prolonged periods of time and I got into the habit of sitting on the toilet without intending to put anything in it just to pass the time.
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excathedra
well maybe beckie was faking it lol
the only way i got through it all was laughing about faking it with others who were faking it
i should add a lot of fakers really loved god etc
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taxicab
I remember faking singing alot. Every teaching, every meeting, every twig fellowship we would sing a couple of songs and I just got so bored and tired of it in the Corps that I would entertain myself by lip syncing.
I faked it on LEAD. A friend of mine complained so much that she had to do LEAD twice in one year, YIKES! That wasn't going to happen to me so I kept my mouth shut, did what they said and hated every minute of it; except for my Solo/Duo where I was left alone to read the Novel I hid in my backpack.
I was stuck in a crevice and couldn't pull myself out of it. Oh, I was believing, and I was trying but there was just no way someone with no upper body strength (me) was getting out of there without some major help. Finally, after keeping my mouth shut long enough, not complaining and giving it the old "heave ho" every once in awhile, those in leadership decided "enough was enough". They instructed me to "Believe Really Big" and "Try Really Hard" and sure enough I felt a nice strong tug from the rope at my waist and UP I came out of the crevice.
I also faked "Staying Awake" for all those long, boring teachings, but not always successfully!
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OperaBuff
Taxicab, who tugged on your rope? Don't leave me hanging like that!
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waysider
All the "fake it 'til you make it.", "If I act excited, I'll be excited.", "Life is tremendous!" sort of doctrine that was being promoted by The Way during the 1970s is straight out of secular sales training classes and books (ie:Life Is Tremendous!/Charlie Jones, The Greatest Salesman in The World/Og Mandino, How To Make Friends And Influence People/Dale Carnegie, etc.) So, then, you might ask yourself... why were we being groomed as salesmen instead of servants of our fellow man? Well, the answer is obvious, PFAL was VPW's product and we were his sales force. After that reality sets in, you can start to ponder this... If the Bible really has every thing you need to know about everything and anything, why weren't we trained using scriptural materials rather than all these non-Biblical/pseudo-Biblical sources?
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OldSkool
Tremendous!
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waysider
Ha!...How do I know you're not faking it?
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OldSkool
Now you are "thinking evil."
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Watered Garden
I think this carried over into other areas of life. For example, if you felt sick that was a negative attitude/believing and if you acted and confessed "I FEEL GRRREEEAAATTT!" eventually you would start feeling better physically.
One time in FLO, I was slated to accompany some other FLO's to Columbus and teach a twig there. I had the mother of all migraines that evening and informed my superiors that I was out of commission and would not be accompanying anyone to Columbus; there were better teachers than I involved anyway so they would have to figure it out.
Next thing I knew, the women's coordinator and the house leader held me down in my bed and ministered to me! Did I ask for prayer? No I asked for a couple of aspirin and peace and quiet.
I was told to confess positives, such as "I did not have a headache, I felt wonderful, I was healed".
Needless to say, I went to Columbus and taught the twig. Wish I could confess a positive that my headache disappeared, but alas, while it did abate after a while, I still felt like crap the entire evening.
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waysider
Hey! Here's something we could fake. Let's pretend fake that what we were involved with was some sort of noble cause. Maybe then the outcome will magically change. Yeah, that's it. Let's get a web page or something and talk about how we were once God's elite, front line troops.....Fake it 'til you make it.
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Watered Garden
I suspect that may have happened already.
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OldSkool
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waysider
Like Wierwille said, "Even if it never comes to pass, it's still God's Word fakin' it."
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johniam
quote: So, then, you might ask yourself... why were we being groomed as salesmen instead of servants of our fellow man? Well, the answer is obvious, PFAL was VPW's product and we were his sales force. After that reality sets in, you can start to ponder this... If the Bible really has every thing you need to know about everything and anything, why weren't we trained using scriptural materials rather than all these non-Biblical/pseudo-Biblical sources?
You're right, Waysider. We WERE like a sales force. So what? Why is that automatically "unchristian". What we did got the word of God to people and that's what counts. I know you doubt that, but you don't speak for everybody who ever took pfal. Many of us are still grateful for having done so. I think VP was clever for applying sales techniques to modern day Christianity. It worked; thousands of us found it helpful.
Jesus certainly wasn't "faking it" on the cross.
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taxicab
Well it was a long time ago, but for sure my twig coordinator (or whatever we called the people who we answered to on Lead). Also, and this is just an assumption, everyone else who had made it to the top already and were sick and tired of waiting for me to get my sorry butt up there so they could move on!
Well it was a long time ago, but for sure my twig coordinator (or whatever we called the people who we answered to on Lead). Also, and this is just an assumption, everyone else who had made it to the top already and were sick and tired of waiting for me to get my sorry butt up there so they could move on!
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rascal
Johniam said.....
You're right, Waysider. We WERE like a sales force. So what? Why is that automatically "unchristian". What we did got the word of God to people and that's what counts. I know you doubt that, but you don't speak for everybody who ever took pfal. Many of us are still grateful for having done so. I think VP was clever for applying sales techniques to modern day Christianity. It worked; thousands of us found it helpful.
Jesus certainly wasn't "faking it" on the cross.
I don`t know about unchristian, I do think it is down right wrong. God certainly doesn`t need a sales force to move in peoples hearts and lives. He isn`t a product to be peddled period. So scripture was packaged and marketed in an attractive form....it is nothing ... a tinkling cymbal nothing more than pretty sound... without charity, without the love of God behind it..
I think it extremely detrimental. People were taught and believed that knowledge of the scriptures and operation of the principles there in equated with being christian and walking in the spirit. The arrogance of this misconception can prevent one from ever actually enjoying a genuine spirit filled walk in this life. It`s all works.
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Twinky
Someone who didn't fake it till she made it.
All interesting, but the bit that I was thinking of in connection with this thread starts about 3/4 the way down the article: Corrie on Funding her work
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waysider
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