J.L .denounces Law of Believing

[socks]

Indeed. Colossians 1:27 is in the Bible. Galatians 4:19 is in the Bible. These often connected verses and others are...in the Bible.

The basic understanding of the "new man in Christ" being no longer "Jew or Gentile" - that's in the Bible. The accomplishment was by God's planned direction and carried out through Christ. It's written about in the Bible, that's the "teaching". "The Mystery" is revealed in the Bible, not by me or VPW or anyone else.

Did I have an awareness of the these things before PFAL? No, for me that was an introduction to those things. But they weren't unknown. I remember clearly telling my Mother about the teaching early on when I still lived at home. She was familiar with it from her own early church exposure, the terms and the general ideas. She'd heard them before.

The Way offered a non-denominational platform for these things to be taught and practiced but that wasn't new either. It was for me but the idea wasn't new.

Reteaching things already known in a new format that offers additional insight and that extrapolates on the information already known isn't doing something new. It might be a radical departure from the current norms, might be in contrast to the sub culture it's being presented in and to but....

The "not known since way back when" drill is a dull one. It's like the story's been told so many times now that the 2nd, 3rd generations repeating it believe it as told. I won't infer I knew any of this before PFAL or had the doctrinal points in my head or life to agree with or disagree with. New to me but not "new".

I see it today as marketing, marketing a class to promote it. Less bible teaching and more packaging. I do see PFAL as having a lot of teaching in it but all of the packaging around it and the hoo rah that came with it takes away from the source material - the Bible.

[Steve Lortz]

The fundamental thing that Wierwille taught was that the church is a new thing, completely seperate and discontinuous from Israel, whose very existence was kept secret until it was revealed to the apostle Paul.

The truth is that the church is the believing remnant of Israel, under the New Testament promised to that remnant in Jeremiah 31, with believing gentiles grafted in on the same basis as believing Israel, by grace through faith.

Wierwille's doctrine was NOT some truth that had been lost since the first century, it was a perversion invented by John Darby in the 19th century, and popularized by the Scofield reference Bible in the early 20th.

There's a folksy TV teacher named Les Feldick who teaches almost exactly the same thing about "administrations" that Wierwille did. Feldick claims he has never received any formal training, that he got everything he's teaching just from reading the Bible. Well... he must be reading a Scofield reference Bible.

I feel sorry for John Lynn, John Schoenheit and Mark Graeser. Every bit of the misery they've suffered, they've brought on their own heads, in spite of numerous and frequent cautions. They know too much in their own eyes to be admonished, even by the Bible itself. They know more about the Bible than God does!

Love,

Steve

[Steve Lortz]

Double post... sorry...

Love,

Steve

Edited June 20, 2011 by Steve Lortz

[chockfull]

Lynn uses the same claim for his group. Greatest teaching since the first century church. <_< I think their claims measure up nicely to P.T. Barnums "The Greatest Show on Earth" hype.

At least it measures up to the elephant poop portion of it.

[friendlyjoe]

in this subject, I'm just saying......kit sober is the only one that I can see that left Egypt with the gold......[/b]

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

dang, no wonder I haven't seen many recent posts from her. Lucky thing

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 4/30/2011 at 0:27 PM, Abigail said:

Just another hukster trying to sell something and make a buck. Perhaps his doctrine changes not because what he believes changes, but because he is trying to draw in more people who will send him money and kiss his a@@?

Abby, you nailed it!  He wants people to send him money.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 5/6/2011 at 10:07 PM, socks said:

I was reading some things on Creflo Dollar's site, he's a strong proponent of these "laws".

"that is why fear is a magnet for the things of which you are afraid. When you operate in fear, the law of sin and death goes into motion to bring about the very object of your fear.

Christians need to take steps to eliminate doubt and fear from their lives. I want to see my brothers and sisters in the Lord living under the blessings of the law of life in Christ Jesus. Examine yourself. Of what are you afraid? What worries and anxieties consistently occupy your thoughts?"

-----------------------

He explains this thusly:

In fact, any principle in the Bible which involves faith and its ability to bring good things to your life also will apply to fear and its power to bring destruction to your life. For example, we are told in Romans 10:10: "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Just as heart-belief and mouth-confession of God's Word brings about the blessings of salvation, when you have fear in your heart and speak it out loud with your mouth, it brings about destruction.

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I find it fascinating that he identifies what we believe in the heart and say with our mouth of "God's Word" is what brings about the "blessings" of salvation.

I will say this - I don't like heights. I can get up maybe somewhere between a 1 and 2 story but edges and ledges - don't dig 'em. I've been "afraid" of heights as long as I can remember. Get all sweaty palmed. Properly prepared I can navigate them but I would say quite honestly and without eguivocatin' that while I can't think of too many things I'm "afraid of" - heights would come pretty close to that. I've said it many times, thought about it at others and definitely have it in my list of things not to do if I don't have to. Going on 50 plus years.

I've yet to see a height come out and grab me, hoist me up, and knock me over and down.

It may happen yet but just hasn't happened so far.

Socks, it's easy for CD to say that, because he is surrounded by money, and all the luxuries he wants.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 5/12/2011 at 7:49 PM, Ham said:

Maybe after decades of playing mind games, he is coming to the realization he never grew up to be a real boy..

Ham, bingo!

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 6/18/2011 at 10:24 AM, OldSkool said:

Great post, Socks. JL would make a better impression on me (not that he needs to, but just saying) if his "ministry" found some way to be self supporting w/o fleecing people of donations. Let the work prove itself as a true ministry, complete with signs, miracles, wonders, etc.

All I have seen from Lynn's group is the same useless rhetoric I used to see in the way international. IE, people going on and on about how electrifying the teachings are, and how amazing it is that we "know" so much more than everyone else. <_<

OS, wow!  If this is true, I'm glad I never got involved with any of his ministries!

 

 

 

 

 

[T-Bone]

On 4/29/2011 at 9:54 PM, waysider said:

I'm not sure where to begin to comment on this.

:o

 

I haven’t heard John L “teach” in a long time... it was like listening with fresh ears…and then it hit me…the amount of effort and emphasis he puts into the way he talks comes across like he’s speaking to a foreigner who barely understands any English…or to someone who has a mental disability…maybe it’s just the figure of speech condescensio patronizium.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

8 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

I haven’t heard John L “teach” in a long time... it was like listening with fresh ears…and then it hit me…the amount of effort and emphasis he puts into the way he talks comes across like he’s speaking to a foreigner who barely understands any English…or to someone who has a mental disability…maybe it’s just the figure of speech condescensio patronizium.

 

 

Or, perhaps it's caca.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

LOL Grace!

[Grace Valerie Claire]

1 minute ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

LOL Grace!

Thanks DWBH!!

[Grace Valerie Claire]

4 minutes ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

LOL Grace!

Thanks DWBH!

[WordWolf]

On 27/7/2017 at 6:27 PM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Socks, it's easy for CD to say that, because he is surrounded by money, and all the luxuries he wants.  

"Cherry picking", or "Counting the hits and ignoring the misses." When a person believes they will be successful, REALLY believes it, and they're a tremendous flop and a cipher, nobody hears about it and nobody cares.   That happens A LOT.  When a person believes they will be successful and is-or announces after becoming successful that it was because they "always believed they'd be", then it's counted as "proof" that believing does that.  All the other people were "proof" it doesn't.  Any guess how many people are supremely confident they will win this week's lottery and turn out not to win it?   I bet there's a LOT more of them than people who hit it.

[chockfull]

19 hours ago, T-Bone said:

I haven’t heard John L “teach” in a long time... it was like listening with fresh ears…and then it hit me…the amount of effort and emphasis he puts into the way he talks comes across like he’s speaking to a foreigner who barely understands any English…or to someone who has a mental disability…maybe it’s just the figure of speech condescensio patronizium.

Didn't get past the opening first minute where he asks if anybody has seen a counterfeit $13 bill. 

My thoughts after that immediately were "now I have".