they are in the process of recalling the current governor here, on account of "absolutes"..
this guy makes Nixon look like a Piker..
can you imagine, capturing lake front property, from an economically challenged, jurisdiction, and developing a golf course, for the young, healthy, and rich unemployed..
makes no sense to me..
the "other side" is now prepared to get it's "rear" kicked..
Believing? Attraction?
sowy.. you will have a *tad* bit of opposition here..
Call it "negative" or whatever. It is, what it is..
see. On the other side of this existence.. I was another one of the entities, you had to make some kind of agreement with..
I've already made peace with those whom I am associated with..
OK, he's condescending, he's a 13 dollar bill, he's a wanna be cult leader...nobody seems to want to deal with his actual message. Haven't had any dealings with his group. It was good to hear him talk again. Reminds me of back in the day.
What I find interesting is that, having dealt with 4 other twi spinoffs, I conclude...
1) Vince Finnegan's Christian Biblical Counsel - don't recall anything specific about the law of believing, but since Vince rejects much of what VP taught, I'm guessing that applies here as well.
2) John Shroyer's Christian Family Fellowship Ministries - again, don't recall anything about the law of believing, but never took their class (wasn't done yet). This group seems to track much more with VP but don't know what they teach about the law of believing.
3) John Hendricks' Christian Research and Fellowship - definitely promotes the law of believing per VP. One of his collaterals uses an example of the law of believing that parallels the mother whose little boy was hit and killed by a car. JHs example is a pimply faced kid from his youth who had no trouble scoring with women juxtaposed with a handsome guy who had fear that affected all his relationships.
4) Chris Geer's Word Promotions - makes the same distinction JL just made: that our minds don't control the universe. That if that were true, then, as John Jeudes says, no God needed. BUT! IF God has given His word in a situation, THEN we can believe and act with the expectation of success.
I liked that JL said there's no way to disprove that you had doubt if someone says you weren't believing. That DOES make it ridiculous. There's also no way to prove God gave you revelation if you say you WERE believing something. That part of it is a stalemate. I can't even prove that the God I believe in exists, but nobody else can prove He doesn't exist.
I like what he has to say. At least he calls the law of believing what it is - counterfeit. The law of believing garbage caused me no end of hurt when I tried to operate it during a series of family emergencies that went on and off for a couple years. I am glad to see someone call it out and expose it for the lie that it is.
I like what he has to say. At least he calls the law of believing what it is - counterfeit. The law of believing garbage caused me no end of hurt when I tried to operate it during a series of family emergencies that went on and off for a couple years. I am glad to see someone call it out and expose it for the lie that it is.
I think you are right. It is really good that he is coming to these things that have so hurt us....but, maybe, he should just stop trying to teach each realization he is coming to in his own life. Maybe he is not in a position to teach others.
If you look at his theology since leaving TWI...it has been all over the map. Why is he trying to teach people each thought that roams into his head as if it is the gospel truth? Personal Prophecy, a God with limited foreknowledge, Momentus, and now this. Most of us came to this on our own and people like John Juedes have been trying to expose it for years. Lot's of bible teachers never bought into the law of believing and cried foul right away.
JAL is not a bible teacher. He was in the same messed up cult we were. He needs a good teacher to take him in hand.
Why would people continue to look to JAL as an authority? It is obvious he has a great deal to work out in his own mind and life.....why sit behind a desk and spout? I think he is dangerous and a hindrance to those who may be seeking deliverance from TWI teachings. Who knows where his mind meanderings are going to take him next? Wherever it is, I don't understand why he feels the need to drag others along with him.
I wish him well, but I wish he would just direct people to some sound bible teachers and let it go. That would be the loving and selfless thing to do. I don't think he can...he believes he is an authority.
Also, what is with the mesmerizing hand gestures and that odd cadence in his voice? I couldn't look away...it was all I could concentrate on.
"Its the same old lie that THE DEVIL has told for centuries he just keeps repackaging it"
He neglects to say that HE was a huge proponent of it for 20 years....what does that make him?
JL then quotes verses that christians use to propound this, again NO --it was him....Christians knew better and said so from the beginning.
Its like listening to mass confusion with a good mix of ADHD thrown in
Im with Geisha I wish him well but he'd do well to drop the charade, his ever changing doctrine that blows around like a leaf in the wind, come to the realization that he is clueless, find himself a bible teacher and do what is apparently the hardest thing in the world for him--STFU.
He's already run two cults into the ground--what does it take to get through to this guy?
"Its the same old lie that THE DEVIL has told for centuries he just keeps repackaging it"
He neglects to say that HE was a huge proponent of it for 20 years....what does that make him?
JL then quotes verses that christians use to propound this, again NO --it was him....Christians knew better and said so from the beginning.
Its like listening to mass confusion with a good mix of ADHD thrown in
He wrote BOOKS about it. Living in the Eye of the Storm was his work.
If he was so feet first into that doctrine and wrong...what else was and is he wrong about? Those waters may run pretty deep and if he is jumping into them with his mouth open...he may just drown.
That doctrine hurt people...and some people died as a result.
Truly, I hope he works through it all, I would rejoice with him. . . .but, maybe, just not spit out on camera as a bible teacher...each leap he takes?
Just another hukster trying to sell something and make a buck. Perhaps his doctrine changes not because what he believes changes, but because he is trying to draw in more people who will send him money and kiss his a@@?
Does he ever say he taught this exact same stuff, himself, as if it were the Gospel truth, for decades, and then apologize? Nope. Not even a mention of such. Then, he uses the fig tree incident to imply that Jesus was using a verbal shell game to make it just SEEM like he commanded the tree to death. So, then he's saying that Jesus wasn't above a bit of verbal sleight of hand?? He actually got revelation the tree was going to die and concealed that fact to promote another agenda?? Sounds like a bit of creative interpretation, to me.
What he is doing here is saying that VP was wrong about "the law of believing" in the foundational class but right about "the manifestation of believing" in the advanced class. Sort of.
Here is the definition of "manifestation of believing" from the advanced class:
The manifestation of Believing is your operation of the God-given ability whereby you may believe to bring to pass the impossible at your command according to what God has revealed to you by Word of Knowledge, Word of Wisdom and Discerning of Spirits. It also imparts believing (law of believing variety) in others.
So, I guess the message here is that you can only really "believe' for something if it's already been revealed to you by revelation. But, in order to receive revelation, it is absolutely imperative that you speak in tongues "much" on a daily basis. Did Jesus speak in tongues? (Key #3 of the 16 Keys To Walking In The Spirit) Then, it will help others to operate "the law of believing" which, ironically, he just debunked.
Too much mumbo and not enough jumbo, if you were to ask me.
I know you probably won't see this post.....since you dissed Greasespot and its posters a few years ago. But really......YOU ARE A LITTLE LATE TO THE PARTY.
We've covered the COUNTERFEIT TEACHING OF VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE (aka "the law of believing) from like 50 different angles. Many of us have commented on the devil's handywork and the whole shebang in pfal. Yep, this "law of believing" mirrors VOODOO.
But John.....your idol-worship of wierwille kept you from seeing these truths. Your arrogance was/is so thick that I sometimes wonder if you ever stop looking at your self-serving image. No matter....its your life.
Had you joined in the conversations here at Greasespot some 6 years ago, you'd be so much FURTHER ALONG in understanding some of these truths. But then again, you won't have the satisfaction of thinking that you'd uncovered this "gold nugget."
And, if you're trying to reinvent yourself again......it ain't working.
Man, he's really dip into it! It's all the doctrine he learned from PIFFAL and twm and trying to pull it off like it was his own. Trouble (was) is that doctrine was ripped off from a lot of other writers and theologians and counterfeited before he counterfeited it.
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johniam
Very interesting. OK, he's condescending, he's a 13 dollar bill, he's a wanna be cult leader...nobody seems to want to deal with his actual message. Haven't had any dealings with his group. It was go
geisha779
I think you are right. It is really good that he is coming to these things that have so hurt us....but, maybe, he should just stop trying to teach each realization he is coming to in his own life. May
waysider
I'm not sure where to begin to comment on this. :o
chockfull
JL is a counterfeit $13 bill. He used to be a $3 bill, but that got incremented after 2 crash and burn ministry attempts.
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waysider
These cats will say virtually anything that keeps their pipe dream alive.
First, the law of believing was the holy grail of spirituality.
Now, it's as phony as a cult leader wanna-be.
Next thing you know, they'll be insisting that VP wasn't really a "DR."
Say it isn't so!!
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Ham
what I fin intriguing is the description of "toatally wrong". I.e. it is always not right.
god bless the last numbnuts here.
well, next to last.
the wife.
"You ALWAYS leave the toilet seat up..
no, absolutes are not entirely accurate. Sometimes, the men have to sit down, as well..
so I could have the whole universe kiss my a**.. at what cost.
we are seeing at what "cost" in Michigan..
and Wisconsin.. and a couple of other places..
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waysider
Up is down...down is up...
Why on earth does anyone continue to take these guys seriously?
Seat or no seat... I think they flushed any reason or credibility they may have had down the ol' crapper a long, long time ago.
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Ham
they are in the process of recalling the current governor here, on account of "absolutes"..
this guy makes Nixon look like a Piker..
can you imagine, capturing lake front property, from an economically challenged, jurisdiction, and developing a golf course, for the young, healthy, and rich unemployed..
makes no sense to me..
the "other side" is now prepared to get it's "rear" kicked..
Believing? Attraction?
sowy.. you will have a *tad* bit of opposition here..
Call it "negative" or whatever. It is, what it is..
see. On the other side of this existence.. I was another one of the entities, you had to make some kind of agreement with..
I've already made peace with those whom I am associated with..
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waysider
What does he hope to do?
Appeal to posters here by agreeing with what we already know?
Reminds me of this old tune.
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Ham
It is the mystical "WE".. *We * is right, *they* are "wrong"..
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waysider
Well, that's all relative to whether you're asking "us" or "them".
:P
Musical Interlude
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mstar1
I couldnt make it past his condescending delivery of the first few sentences
What does he think his audience is a bunch of 3 year olds?
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Abigail
Excuse my while I go lose my breakfast. I'm with you MStart - very condescending.
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johniam
Very interesting.
OK, he's condescending, he's a 13 dollar bill, he's a wanna be cult leader...nobody seems to want to deal with his actual message. Haven't had any dealings with his group. It was good to hear him talk again. Reminds me of back in the day.
What I find interesting is that, having dealt with 4 other twi spinoffs, I conclude...
1) Vince Finnegan's Christian Biblical Counsel - don't recall anything specific about the law of believing, but since Vince rejects much of what VP taught, I'm guessing that applies here as well.
2) John Shroyer's Christian Family Fellowship Ministries - again, don't recall anything about the law of believing, but never took their class (wasn't done yet). This group seems to track much more with VP but don't know what they teach about the law of believing.
3) John Hendricks' Christian Research and Fellowship - definitely promotes the law of believing per VP. One of his collaterals uses an example of the law of believing that parallels the mother whose little boy was hit and killed by a car. JHs example is a pimply faced kid from his youth who had no trouble scoring with women juxtaposed with a handsome guy who had fear that affected all his relationships.
4) Chris Geer's Word Promotions - makes the same distinction JL just made: that our minds don't control the universe. That if that were true, then, as John Jeudes says, no God needed. BUT! IF God has given His word in a situation, THEN we can believe and act with the expectation of success.
I liked that JL said there's no way to disprove that you had doubt if someone says you weren't believing. That DOES make it ridiculous. There's also no way to prove God gave you revelation if you say you WERE believing something. That part of it is a stalemate. I can't even prove that the God I believe in exists, but nobody else can prove He doesn't exist.
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OldSkool
I like what he has to say. At least he calls the law of believing what it is - counterfeit. The law of believing garbage caused me no end of hurt when I tried to operate it during a series of family emergencies that went on and off for a couple years. I am glad to see someone call it out and expose it for the lie that it is.
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geisha779
I think you are right. It is really good that he is coming to these things that have so hurt us....but, maybe, he should just stop trying to teach each realization he is coming to in his own life. Maybe he is not in a position to teach others.
If you look at his theology since leaving TWI...it has been all over the map. Why is he trying to teach people each thought that roams into his head as if it is the gospel truth? Personal Prophecy, a God with limited foreknowledge, Momentus, and now this. Most of us came to this on our own and people like John Juedes have been trying to expose it for years. Lot's of bible teachers never bought into the law of believing and cried foul right away.
JAL is not a bible teacher. He was in the same messed up cult we were. He needs a good teacher to take him in hand.
Why would people continue to look to JAL as an authority? It is obvious he has a great deal to work out in his own mind and life.....why sit behind a desk and spout? I think he is dangerous and a hindrance to those who may be seeking deliverance from TWI teachings. Who knows where his mind meanderings are going to take him next? Wherever it is, I don't understand why he feels the need to drag others along with him.
I wish him well, but I wish he would just direct people to some sound bible teachers and let it go. That would be the loving and selfless thing to do. I don't think he can...he believes he is an authority.
Also, what is with the mesmerizing hand gestures and that odd cadence in his voice? I couldn't look away...it was all I could concentrate on.
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OperaBuff
Yes. And why does he keep flashing his big long teeth at the camera? I don't recall him doing that before.
Well, it's time for me to Be Leaving now to get ready for work. I have an actual, real job. *hint hint, JL, hint hint*
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mstar1
Maybe?
"Its the same old lie that THE DEVIL has told for centuries he just keeps repackaging it"
He neglects to say that HE was a huge proponent of it for 20 years....what does that make him?
JL then quotes verses that christians use to propound this, again NO --it was him....Christians knew better and said so from the beginning.
Its like listening to mass confusion with a good mix of ADHD thrown in
Im with Geisha I wish him well but he'd do well to drop the charade, his ever changing doctrine that blows around like a leaf in the wind, come to the realization that he is clueless, find himself a bible teacher and do what is apparently the hardest thing in the world for him--STFU.
He's already run two cults into the ground--what does it take to get through to this guy?
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geisha779
He wrote BOOKS about it. Living in the Eye of the Storm was his work.
If he was so feet first into that doctrine and wrong...what else was and is he wrong about? Those waters may run pretty deep and if he is jumping into them with his mouth open...he may just drown.
That doctrine hurt people...and some people died as a result.
Truly, I hope he works through it all, I would rejoice with him. . . .but, maybe, just not spit out on camera as a bible teacher...each leap he takes?
That is not too much to ask.
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Abigail
Just another hukster trying to sell something and make a buck. Perhaps his doctrine changes not because what he believes changes, but because he is trying to draw in more people who will send him money and kiss his a@@?
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waysider
Does he ever say he taught this exact same stuff, himself, as if it were the Gospel truth, for decades, and then apologize? Nope. Not even a mention of such. Then, he uses the fig tree incident to imply that Jesus was using a verbal shell game to make it just SEEM like he commanded the tree to death. So, then he's saying that Jesus wasn't above a bit of verbal sleight of hand?? He actually got revelation the tree was going to die and concealed that fact to promote another agenda?? Sounds like a bit of creative interpretation, to me.
What he is doing here is saying that VP was wrong about "the law of believing" in the foundational class but right about "the manifestation of believing" in the advanced class. Sort of.
Here is the definition of "manifestation of believing" from the advanced class:
The manifestation of Believing is your operation of the God-given ability whereby you may believe to bring to pass the impossible at your command according to what God has revealed to you by Word of Knowledge, Word of Wisdom and Discerning of Spirits. It also imparts believing (law of believing variety) in others.
So, I guess the message here is that you can only really "believe' for something if it's already been revealed to you by revelation. But, in order to receive revelation, it is absolutely imperative that you speak in tongues "much" on a daily basis. Did Jesus speak in tongues? (Key #3 of the 16 Keys To Walking In The Spirit) Then, it will help others to operate "the law of believing" which, ironically, he just debunked.
Too much mumbo and not enough jumbo, if you were to ask me.
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skyrider
Hey, John Lynn.....
I know you probably won't see this post.....since you dissed Greasespot and its posters a few years ago. But really......YOU ARE A LITTLE LATE TO THE PARTY.
We've covered the COUNTERFEIT TEACHING OF VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE (aka "the law of believing) from like 50 different angles. Many of us have commented on the devil's handywork and the whole shebang in pfal. Yep, this "law of believing" mirrors VOODOO.
But John.....your idol-worship of wierwille kept you from seeing these truths. Your arrogance was/is so thick that I sometimes wonder if you ever stop looking at your self-serving image. No matter....its your life.
Had you joined in the conversations here at Greasespot some 6 years ago, you'd be so much FURTHER ALONG in understanding some of these truths. But then again, you won't have the satisfaction of thinking that you'd uncovered this "gold nugget."
And, if you're trying to reinvent yourself again......it ain't working.
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Human without the bean
Man, he's really dip into it! It's all the doctrine he learned from PIFFAL and twm and trying to pull it off like it was his own. Trouble (was) is that doctrine was ripped off from a lot of other writers and theologians and counterfeited before he counterfeited it.
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GrouchoMarxJr
If I'm not mistaken, jal was teaching this stuff 12-15 years ago...how old is that video?
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waysider
It was posted on youtube about a year ago.
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Ham
No, not in his mind. Or self-promotion. He's discovered the hook shot ya know..
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waysider
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