Waco, Texas (CNN) -- Sheila Martin's children burned alive. God, she says, wanted it that way.
"I don't expect you to understand," she says,
Her calm, over those days, came when she heard his voice, talking to a negotiator, on the loudspeaker.
"Now, do you know what the name Koresh means?" the voice boomed.
"It means death."
"We didn't have a plan for death," Martin says. "I wondered: Did someone change the plan without telling me?"
David Koresh told his followers years before the men in uniforms arrived that a great apocalyptic battle with Babylon was coming and there would be destruction and fire and deaths.
So, Martin says, David was right. "David is the messiah, and he's coming back," she explains, inspecting a bush that's beginning to produce sweet peppers.
"Now we just wait for the kingdom."
Doyle sits in his cluttered living room, detective paperbacks, tomes on theology and Laurel & Hardy videos crammed on bookshelves. The only item that has room to breathe is a photograph of his 18-year-old daughter, Shari.
She was one of Koresh's "wives."
In the photo, Shari is flaxen haired, flushed and smiling, hugging the family dog.
That Koresh bedded his daughter makes Doyle shift in his seat, and when he speaks of it, his jaw tightens.
Doyle says his daughter started having sex with Koresh when she was 14. Koresh fathered at least 13 children with sect followers and engaged in sexual acts with underage Davidian girls, according to the Justice Department, numerous affidavits of Davidians and interviews CNN conducted with survivors.
Davidian Kiri Jewel testified during 1995 congressional hearings on the siege that Koresh slept in a bed with women and children, and she believed that he had impregnated a 14-year-old. Koresh, she said, often talked about how the young girls at the compound pleased him sexually. Jewel described in graphic detail how Koresh sexually assaulted her. She testified that she wasn't afraid of getting pregnant; she was too young, she explained. She'd not even started menstruating yet.
Doyle insists that his daughter Shari, even at a young age, was capable of deciding whether to have sex with Koresh.
There is silence for a moment. Doyle knows that trying to justify Koresh having sex with underage girls incites nothing but outrage from nonbelievers. And, initially, when David began preaching a message that his holy seed must be spread to any girl he preferred, married or in pigtails, Doyle admits he was bothered by it.
"I wondered, I asked, 'Is this God or is this horny old David?' "
But Doyle's concern didn't last long.
"I couldn't argue because he'd show you where it was in the Bible."
Sheila Martin, too, condones Koresh having sex with underage girls. "In the Bible, if a girl is old enough to menstruate, then she can be a wife," she insists.
There are three crucial points to understanding the Branch Davidian brand of religion.
First, God can appear in the flesh as a man. Second, that man doesn't have to be a good person. Third, if you question whether that man is God, then you are questioning God. In other words, the devil is responsible for your doubt.
"Now," Doyle asks, "are you going to give the devil control?"
Considering what she gave up - her children - I can see where it would be very difficult to admit she might have been misled or wrong. That would be an incredibly difficult thing to come to terms with.
So I ask you, waysider: why or how do you suppose anyone would continue to believe in someone who was evil (or at the very least dangerous)?
I'm not sure about how or why. I think Abigail gave a good encapsulated summary, though.
We see it here quite frequently and shake our heads in puzzlement. How can people discover the truth about Wierwille and continue to vaunt his image? In recognizing Wierwille was a fraud, we subsequently have to acknowledge we were duped. That can be both embarrassing and painful, especially if it resulted in great personal loss. The alternative is to ignore the obvious.
"The devil can quote Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek, a goodly apple rotten at the heart."
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WordWolf
[some highlights from the article above..]
Waco, Texas (CNN) -- Sheila Martin's children burned alive. God, she says, wanted it that way.
"I don't expect you to understand," she says,
Her calm, over those days, came when she heard his voice, talking to a negotiator, on the loudspeaker.
"Now, do you know what the name Koresh means?" the voice boomed.
"It means death."
"We didn't have a plan for death," Martin says. "I wondered: Did someone change the plan without telling me?"
David Koresh told his followers years before the men in uniforms arrived that a great apocalyptic battle with Babylon was coming and there would be destruction and fire and deaths.
So, Martin says, David was right. "David is the messiah, and he's coming back," she explains, inspecting a bush that's beginning to produce sweet peppers.
"Now we just wait for the kingdom."
Doyle sits in his cluttered living room, detective paperbacks, tomes on theology and Laurel & Hardy videos crammed on bookshelves. The only item that has room to breathe is a photograph of his 18-year-old daughter, Shari.
She was one of Koresh's "wives."
In the photo, Shari is flaxen haired, flushed and smiling, hugging the family dog.
That Koresh bedded his daughter makes Doyle shift in his seat, and when he speaks of it, his jaw tightens.
Doyle says his daughter started having sex with Koresh when she was 14. Koresh fathered at least 13 children with sect followers and engaged in sexual acts with underage Davidian girls, according to the Justice Department, numerous affidavits of Davidians and interviews CNN conducted with survivors.
Davidian Kiri Jewel testified during 1995 congressional hearings on the siege that Koresh slept in a bed with women and children, and she believed that he had impregnated a 14-year-old. Koresh, she said, often talked about how the young girls at the compound pleased him sexually. Jewel described in graphic detail how Koresh sexually assaulted her. She testified that she wasn't afraid of getting pregnant; she was too young, she explained. She'd not even started menstruating yet.
Doyle insists that his daughter Shari, even at a young age, was capable of deciding whether to have sex with Koresh.
There is silence for a moment. Doyle knows that trying to justify Koresh having sex with underage girls incites nothing but outrage from nonbelievers. And, initially, when David began preaching a message that his holy seed must be spread to any girl he preferred, married or in pigtails, Doyle admits he was bothered by it.
"I wondered, I asked, 'Is this God or is this horny old David?' "
But Doyle's concern didn't last long.
"I couldn't argue because he'd show you where it was in the Bible."
Sheila Martin, too, condones Koresh having sex with underage girls. "In the Bible, if a girl is old enough to menstruate, then she can be a wife," she insists.
There are three crucial points to understanding the Branch Davidian brand of religion.
First, God can appear in the flesh as a man. Second, that man doesn't have to be a good person. Third, if you question whether that man is God, then you are questioning God. In other words, the devil is responsible for your doubt.
"Now," Doyle asks, "are you going to give the devil control?"
[Who's like first crack at breaking this down?]
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waysider
Change the names and some of the fine details and you're talking about a plot-line we all know too well.
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soul searcher
I had read this story earlier and I was going to post it but I figured somebody else would.
Naturally I was appalled when I read it.
It makes me wonder about people...and things...and religion in general.
So I ask you, waysider: why or how do you suppose anyone would continue to believe in someone who was evil (or at the very least dangerous)?
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Abigail
Considering what she gave up - her children - I can see where it would be very difficult to admit she might have been misled or wrong. That would be an incredibly difficult thing to come to terms with.
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waysider
I'm not sure about how or why. I think Abigail gave a good encapsulated summary, though.
We see it here quite frequently and shake our heads in puzzlement. How can people discover the truth about Wierwille and continue to vaunt his image? In recognizing Wierwille was a fraud, we subsequently have to acknowledge we were duped. That can be both embarrassing and painful, especially if it resulted in great personal loss. The alternative is to ignore the obvious.
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Watered Garden
No analysis here, just a thought:
"The devil can quote Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek, a goodly apple rotten at the heart."
Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice."
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excathedra
oh man i couldn't read it -- to painful
i don't think the way was ever to this point
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