I should have known better...God forbid....we take a poll about being a Christian...be invited to discuss and then actually quote Jesus .... what was I thinking?
IMO our current views and understandings of Christianity and Jesus Christ specifically are a major aspect of what "About the Way" is about and not specifically a "doctrinal" issue of discussion, although that should be the basis for a lot of what's discussed. For many of us it appears it's not simply that we were in the Way, left the Way and now consider the entire Christian faith a moot point and no longer valid for us.
I hope I've communicated that I wasn't interested initially in establishing a majority view, either way. Yes or no means just that. For those of us who answer yes or wish to discuss it in other terms in more detail - I think that reflects strongly on our experiences both before and after involvement with the Way, while also including that. It's been good to read what's being offered. For those of us who would say simply no - that means something too. I'm happy to read what's been put here in light of whatever one's response is.
I appreciate what you've posted, as others geisha. You honestly challenged my overly generalized statement. Can't ask for more than that. I know it's not going to be the time and place for everyone to read or contribute, and I appreciate the patience and consideration of those who might have very drastically differing opinions or interest in tempering the content to the extent that this kind of discussion can continue. Or not, as it goes. I think it speaks to the GS crowd, who appear to be much more thoughtful and caring than they might be given credit for. That includes you excadeetas! Thank you to all.
I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus is The Way The Truth and The Life and that during this time since God raised him from the dead no man comes to God but by him the Son. And for those of you who once believed in him but now don't haha! Cause your going to get gathered together anyway! And your gonna like it! And Geisha, this is specially for you if I can do it right. Hey I did it!
Could it really be that easy? Just do what VP (You know he wasn't really a "Dr.", don't you?) Wierwille said in PFAL and **POOF** you're Heaven bound and all Hell can't stop you? That's kinda scary. I could be spending eternity next to Hannibal Lecter or Charlie Manson..
Could it really be that easy? Just do what VP (You know he wasn't really a "Dr.", don't you?) Wierwille said in PFAL and **POOF** you're Heaven bound and all Hell can't stop you?
There you go again! What's wrong with you? I never said anything about VPW! For your INFORMATION, The Bible has been around a lot LONGER than VPW and the Scriptures came WAY before the Bible. So if the scriptures say one thing and 2000 years later VPW says the same thing, because he was a charlton I am now not allowed to believe what the Bible says because VP has now tanted it? I think that would give him to much credit AND hes dead. Boy it seems as if even just mentioning the word Bible and someone goes VPW VPW VPW! It is sad that he's got a holt of you still after all this time. Kind of like Paylovs dogs. Some one says a Bible versr and then one of you goes "VPW. Someone else says eternal life will be great and someone here goes VPW". I haven't thought of him in ages until I came here and thats no lie.
I'm a beer and red wine drinking christian..
You too?! Kewel! But I don't go out and get hamered.
Oh and I am sorry about the capital letters. I have to rember to use the italics but I dont want to go back and change it. Next time Ill do better.
Hanibel Lecter wasn't a real Dr either. In fact he wasnt real becuase he was a fictional person for that movie. I know because I looked it up just now and it was like I thought.
Are you sure that's really what the Bible says? Or is it what VP "says" the Bible says? Do you see why I brought VP into this? It's because you are interpreting that section of the Bible according to what you learned in PFAL (from VP). But, is what you learned about it in PFAL really accurate? That's the essence of what I'm asking with my response. In one place, it talks about the way being narrow, how few will enter, how it's like a camel passing through the eye of the needle ....and here, in PFAL, we have VP telling us how incredibly simple it all is. So, is the process selective, like Jesus said, or, a "piece of cake" (to paraphrase what VP said)?
And then we have that issue that never fails to make everyone's hackles rise...speaking in tongues.
"Oh, but I must be born again, Dr. said speaking in tongues is proof beyond the shadow of a doubt."
Well, guess what?, people have been "speaking in tongues", in the PFAL sense, for thousands of years, even before the days when Jesus walked the planet. It's glossolalia. Lot's of non-Christian people do the same thing. So,how could it possibly be any kind of reliable proof?
Oh, I concede, maybe there really is such a thing as speaking in tongues (Biblical variety). I highly doubt that it would be synonymous with the variety we learned about in PFAL.
While VPW, his non-doctored status and PFAL can be part of the discussion, that dime's been spent a lot. Me, I'm off that dime, but it's interesting that this topic is coming back to that. I guess no thread is complete without it. Box - checked!
Any discussion on what the bible says, what we believe, what our ongoing learning and experience is and has been is going to be valid, but it's extremely limiting IMO to take a reference to it's similarity to something VPW or PFAL said or taught and attempt to unravel it's influence, waysider. I get that's an exercise you find valuable nd this is in the "About the Way" forum, so no harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned but TonyZ may not see his observations as some kind of psychological VPW-coffee stain. I find it really odd that you'd see it that way but if that's the way you see it, I'll accept it. It's certainly a legitimate question you've asked. Another question is that once it's been answered, can the answer be accepted, if it's understood? What do you think?
I've been having a great ongoing discussion with someone over the last few weeks on some related topics to this thread, "saved", "born again" amongst them. It's been interesting as we've covered some similar background experience that includes Roman Catholic doctrine on those two topics, some history and other stuff. It's kind of cool as we both have had very different experience in how we were taught as RC's, with some similarities as you might expect. Our understanding of who and what we are as Christians today has been pretty consistent though, with some very basic biblical foundations that are completely similar. It's illuminating.
And the poll responses keep on coming! Thanks to all!
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Oh I'm sorry I just made you think of VP Weirwille. But anyway: By the Word of God which liveth and abideth FOREVER. Like I said before this verse in Gods Word was around alot longer than VPW and that settles it for me if you don't mind. Oh and you say about the verses where Jesus talks about the straight and narrow but I pick this verse and others like it to base my beliefs on and not those verses.
. Oh and you say about the verses where Jesus talks about the straight and narrow but I pick this verse and others like it to base my beliefs on and not those verses.
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Twinky
Will we be gathered together? Will we stay here? Do we SIT? Do we think it's all nonsense? Is Jesus God? Or just a man? To some extent - none of this matters. It really doesn't. What will happ
waysider
An apostate is someone who has forsaken their religion, group or cause. In that sense, we are all apostates of The Way.
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mstar1
Right--There is nothing 'false' about it. I left...and I acknowledge that...
the confusion (for me) comes in when I equate TWI with christianity.
How can I leave something that I wasn't a part of in the first place?
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excathedra
i'm really tired of all the scripture on these forums
well, i left something i was a part of -- i gave my stupid life to it -- glad i left
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Broken Arrow
Sorry, I always thought "apostate" was someone who not only left a group, but also adulterated the group's doctrine.
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geisha779
I should have known better...God forbid....we take a poll about being a Christian...be invited to discuss and then actually quote Jesus .... what was I thinking?
Let's talk about VP being a pig some more.
Have at it....I am done.
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excathedra
i don't really care, but i can recite the apostles prayer
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socks
I welcome your input here, geisha!
IMO our current views and understandings of Christianity and Jesus Christ specifically are a major aspect of what "About the Way" is about and not specifically a "doctrinal" issue of discussion, although that should be the basis for a lot of what's discussed. For many of us it appears it's not simply that we were in the Way, left the Way and now consider the entire Christian faith a moot point and no longer valid for us.
I hope I've communicated that I wasn't interested initially in establishing a majority view, either way. Yes or no means just that. For those of us who answer yes or wish to discuss it in other terms in more detail - I think that reflects strongly on our experiences both before and after involvement with the Way, while also including that. It's been good to read what's being offered. For those of us who would say simply no - that means something too. I'm happy to read what's been put here in light of whatever one's response is.
I appreciate what you've posted, as others geisha. You honestly challenged my overly generalized statement. Can't ask for more than that. I know it's not going to be the time and place for everyone to read or contribute, and I appreciate the patience and consideration of those who might have very drastically differing opinions or interest in tempering the content to the extent that this kind of discussion can continue. Or not, as it goes. I think it speaks to the GS crowd, who appear to be much more thoughtful and caring than they might be given credit for. That includes you excadeetas! Thank you to all.
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tonyzamboni
I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus is The Way The Truth and The Life and that during this time since God raised him from the dead no man comes to God but by him the Son. And for those of you who once believed in him but now don't haha! Cause your going to get gathered together anyway! And your gonna like it! And Geisha, this is specially for you if I can do it right. Hey I did it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dooif2-yAoI
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excathedra
i'm sorry geisha
also my post right after yours about the apostles prayer was not to you
and yes i wouldn't mind talking more about what a pig he was
thank you socks
i'm a tired out christian i think
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mstar1
It can be a dogma eat dogma world out there....
personally Im not sold on that, but if you are planning on taking off please be responsible and leave enough food and water out for your pets.
Those of us left behind will already have plenty of things to do
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waysider
Could it really be that easy? Just do what VP (You know he wasn't really a "Dr.", don't you?) Wierwille said in PFAL and **POOF** you're Heaven bound and all Hell can't stop you? That's kinda scary. I could be spending eternity next to Hannibal Lecter or Charlie Manson..
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Ham
I'm a beer and red wine drinking christian..
tired and wore\n out, yes. But I still feel young..
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tonyzamboni
There you go again! What's wrong with you? I never said anything about VPW! For your INFORMATION, The Bible has been around a lot LONGER than VPW and the Scriptures came WAY before the Bible. So if the scriptures say one thing and 2000 years later VPW says the same thing, because he was a charlton I am now not allowed to believe what the Bible says because VP has now tanted it? I think that would give him to much credit AND hes dead. Boy it seems as if even just mentioning the word Bible and someone goes VPW VPW VPW! It is sad that he's got a holt of you still after all this time. Kind of like Paylovs dogs. Some one says a Bible versr and then one of you goes "VPW. Someone else says eternal life will be great and someone here goes VPW". I haven't thought of him in ages until I came here and thats no lie.
You too?! Kewel!
But I don't go out and get hamered.
Oh and I am sorry about the capital letters. I have to rember to use the italics but I dont want to go back and change it. Next time Ill do better.
Hanibel Lecter wasn't a real Dr either. In fact he wasnt real becuase he was a fictional person for that movie. I know because I looked it up just now and it was like I thought.
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waysider
Are you sure that's really what the Bible says? Or is it what VP "says" the Bible says? Do you see why I brought VP into this? It's because you are interpreting that section of the Bible according to what you learned in PFAL (from VP). But, is what you learned about it in PFAL really accurate? That's the essence of what I'm asking with my response. In one place, it talks about the way being narrow, how few will enter, how it's like a camel passing through the eye of the needle ....and here, in PFAL, we have VP telling us how incredibly simple it all is. So, is the process selective, like Jesus said, or, a "piece of cake" (to paraphrase what VP said)?
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Ham
*Dr Wierwille* was a fictional character as well..
as fictional as Johnny Jump up, Maggie Muggins..
henry, what's his name..
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waysider
And then we have that issue that never fails to make everyone's hackles rise...speaking in tongues.
"Oh, but I must be born again, Dr. said speaking in tongues is proof beyond the shadow of a doubt."
Well, guess what?, people have been "speaking in tongues", in the PFAL sense, for thousands of years, even before the days when Jesus walked the planet. It's glossolalia. Lot's of non-Christian people do the same thing. So,how could it possibly be any kind of reliable proof?
Oh, I concede, maybe there really is such a thing as speaking in tongues (Biblical variety). I highly doubt that it would be synonymous with the variety we learned about in PFAL.
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Ham
why anybody gives credence to a cartoon character..
it's your favorite quote. "He really wasn't a doctor, don'tcha know.."
He was an illusion. A Messiah wannabe. a.. fill in the blank..
a pretender..
what if you woke up one morning. Or would that be one evening..
and no. You weren't heading to heaven, with all hell not being able to stop you from going..
well.. I'm one of the Grateful Dead.
Unless the Creator has other plans..
I'm destined to come back to this existence.
hopefully next time, with a slightly better memory..
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waysider
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Ham
cool..
I was born in 1956..
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socks
While VPW, his non-doctored status and PFAL can be part of the discussion, that dime's been spent a lot. Me, I'm off that dime, but it's interesting that this topic is coming back to that. I guess no thread is complete without it. Box - checked!
Any discussion on what the bible says, what we believe, what our ongoing learning and experience is and has been is going to be valid, but it's extremely limiting IMO to take a reference to it's similarity to something VPW or PFAL said or taught and attempt to unravel it's influence, waysider. I get that's an exercise you find valuable nd this is in the "About the Way" forum, so no harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned but TonyZ may not see his observations as some kind of psychological VPW-coffee stain. I find it really odd that you'd see it that way but if that's the way you see it, I'll accept it. It's certainly a legitimate question you've asked. Another question is that once it's been answered, can the answer be accepted, if it's understood? What do you think?
I've been having a great ongoing discussion with someone over the last few weeks on some related topics to this thread, "saved", "born again" amongst them. It's been interesting as we've covered some similar background experience that includes Roman Catholic doctrine on those two topics, some history and other stuff. It's kind of cool as we both have had very different experience in how we were taught as RC's, with some similarities as you might expect. Our understanding of who and what we are as Christians today has been pretty consistent though, with some very basic biblical foundations that are completely similar. It's illuminating.
And the poll responses keep on coming! Thanks to all!
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tonyzamboni
1 Peter 1:23 KJV
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Oh I'm sorry I just made you think of VP Weirwille. But anyway: By the Word of God which liveth and abideth FOREVER. Like I said before this verse in Gods Word was around alot longer than VPW and that settles it for me if you don't mind. Oh and you say about the verses where Jesus talks about the straight and narrow but I pick this verse and others like it to base my beliefs on and not those verses.
And thank you Socks you seem to be a nice guy.
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waysider
That's what is known as "cherry picking".
CHERRY PICKING
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excathedra
i'm cool with any of your beliefs and discussions
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tonyzamboni
But I get to do that now that I am not in TWI. Is that okay with you? Couldn't do that then but I can now!! Or would you rather I do it VPs way?
And thank you Ecxathedra! Thanks for the love and back atcha!
:)
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