YMMV - always looks like the Roman numeral for Yahweh Or the antonym for "yummy". There was a character in the Superman comics years ago - "Mr. Mxyzptlk" if I remember right. Forget what he was all about, one of those inter-dimensional characters. I remember it because I always pronounced it while reading as "Mix - yez - pittle - lik"....yeah, I know. No excuse for what my brain retains.
But YMMV makes me think of that character and a no vowel renderng of some word like "Yo Mi Ma Ahv".
Ok.
Hi hamp! Thanks for participating!
Christianity is such a funny strange religion as practiced by so many throughout history - here a guy says He's come to draw all near, challenges exclusivity both culturally and socially, champions for the weak and sick who pretty much get screwed coming and going, respects children, women, talks to tax collectors for God's sake and even gives the wealthy a break - basically runs a shop that caters to anyone anytime.....and then ends up with followers who spend most of their time figuring out ways to exclude anyone they can lest I dunno, someone get a seat at the Heavenly Banquet that isn't dressed properly. It's weird that what is said to be the most powerful message to come down the pike since "Hey look at this! - round things roll!" gets turned into what amounts to a square hula hoop.
Thanks to everyone who has, for participating and to everyone who hasn't there's still time! Click that bad boy!
(Christianity is such a funny strange religion as practiced by so many throughout history - here a guy says He's come to draw all near, challenges exclusivity both culturally and socially, champions for the weak and sick who pretty much get screwed coming and going, respects children, women, talks to tax collectors for God's sake and even gives the wealthy a break - basically runs a shop that caters to anyone anytime.....and then ends up with followers who spend most of their time figuring out ways to exclude anyone they can lest I dunno, someone get a seat at the Heavenly Banquet that isn't dressed properly. It's weird that what is said to be the most powerful message to come down the pike since "Hey look at this! - round things roll!" gets turned into what amounts to a square hula hoop.)
This should be plastered on billboards all over the country.
that would solve all of the problems, wouldn't it..
heal those who have no resources for health insurance..
feed 5,000 unemployed with one loaf of bread. And a few fish.
forgive the government thugs, of either political persuasion. Just tell them don't extort for a living..
I can't paint all organizations with a broad brush, as having violated these tenets..
one of my offspring contributes to a food bank, and some international program. Makes sure people have a sufficient nutritional diet, where the organization can function in the world..
the thing here is..
Christians in the united states have for the most part risen to the challenge.. tried to help the poor and neglected here and in the world..
it just seems the world would be a colder, harsher place if we as a country were reduced to poverty..
True story. My brother was in Scotland and decided to attend a church service. He enterd a church and sat down to listen to the service. One of the ushers asked him to leave because he didn't belong to that church.
Don't know exactly what you are looking for but you might be interested to know about the recent push by British atheists to get non-religious people to just admit that on their census. Here's a LINK. I was following some comments on another site there that indicated some non-theists are loathe to admit it for various reasons. Kinda' like secular Jews will always say they are Jewish even if they don't believe the religious aspects, as Ham brought up, there are secular Christians, too. They'll say they are Christian in a broader sense but don't believe in any kind of a Christian God.
YMMV - always looks like the Roman numeral for Yahweh Or the antonym for "yummy". There was a character in the Superman comics years ago - "Mr. Mxyzptlk" if I remember right. Forget what he was all about, one of those inter-dimensional characters. I remember it because I always pronounced it while reading as "Mix - yez - pittle - lik"....yeah, I know. No excuse for what my brain retains.
But YMMV makes me think of that character and a no vowel renderng of some word like "Yo Mi Ma Ahv".
Ok.
Hi hamp! Thanks for participating!
Christianity is such a funny strange religion as practiced by so many throughout history - here a guy says He's come to draw all near, challenges exclusivity both culturally and socially, champions for the weak and sick who pretty much get screwed coming and going, respects children, women, talks to tax collectors for God's sake and even gives the wealthy a break - basically runs a shop that caters to anyone anytime.....and then ends up with followers who spend most of their time figuring out ways to exclude anyone they can lest I dunno, someone get a seat at the Heavenly Banquet that isn't dressed properly. It's weird that what is said to be the most powerful message to come down the pike since "Hey look at this! - round things roll!" gets turned into what amounts to a square hula hoop.
Thanks to everyone who has, for participating and to everyone who hasn't there's still time! Click that bad boy!
I think Christianity is actually thee most exclusive faith that there is Socks....and Jesus may have challenged hypocrisy, but He brought exclusivity by claiming there was one way to the Father. You have a poll asking people if they are are Christian without defining what or who a Christian is.... I bet, if we really examined the parameters of the Christian faith....or even just what you consider Christianity....I would not fall into those same parameters. We believe in a different savior. I am not trying to be rude...it is just the truth.
As for exclusivity....
Jesus said, take up your cross and follow me...die daily....no man can serve two masters. Jesus Christ, the person in whom Christians place their trust, said it was a narrow gate. What about His conversation with Nicodemus, was He pleading with him to join up? No....Jesus never tried to convert anyone...He declared Himself and He declared God.
Many of the records in the gospels reveal a down side to following Christ here on earth. In John, it reveals that once He really started speaking...many of His disciples followed Him no more. They set out to seize Him. Right after Jesus raised Lazarus...they plotted to kill them both.
Jesus said...many are called but few are chosen. He said this more than once and in many different ways. When He prayed in John 17, He was not praying for everyone...He was praying for those God had given Him. In fact, Jesus didn't even come at first for you and I ...He came for Israel....""I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." That is pretty exclusive.
When a gentile came to Him pleading for her daughter...what was His response? He said, it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs. Wow! That is fairly narrow minded by our standards. When the gentile replied that she would take the crumbs that fell under the table...then He told her that her faith was great and then He healed her daughter.
When Jesus said "come unto me all who labor...." who was He speaking to? Sinners? Not everyone thinks they are a sinner.....and does that "come unto me" require something? Continue in my word if you are disciples in deed...You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you....
On it goes...exclusivity is an excellent word to describe Jesus. His disciples were so confused by the exclusivity they had to ask Him, "Who then can be saved?"
We complain on here that VP didn't pastor his flock, and he didn't ...he ravaged it....but, here we have a church who probably was looking out for their flock, and we jump to conclusions. I am not saying it was correct to bar anyone entrance without first trying to understand what they were looking for....and I know Mstar has a humble heart....I am sure it was an over reaction, but, who knows what kind of issues they had in the past with TWI. John Lynn could have visited their church for all we know. Any pastor worth the title is going to keep some of these ex-way people far from their doors. Some of these guys wreak havoc wherever they go.
I think Christianity is actually thee most exclusive faith that there is Socks....and Jesus may have challenged hypocrisy, but He brought exclusivity by claiming there was one way to the Father. You have a poll asking people if they are are Christian without defining what or who a Christian is.... I bet, if we really examined the parameters of the Christian faith....or even just what you consider Christianity....I would not fall into those same parameters. We believe in a different savior. I am not trying to be rude...it is just the truth.
I'm sorry, but I think you are presuming a lot in your sentence that I've put in bold above. It comes off sounding like, "My Jesus is the real Jesus, and yours is not. I can only hope that wasn't your intent.
<snip> (I have no desire to debate theology, especially in a simple poll asking who among us consider themselves to be Christians)
We complain on here that VP didn't pastor his flock, and he didn't ...he ravaged it....but, here we have a church who probably was looking out for their flock, and we jump to conclusions. I am not saying it was correct to bar anyone entrance without first trying to understand what they were looking for....and I know Mstar has a humble heart....I am sure it was an over reaction, but, who knows what kind of issues they had in the past with TWI. John Lynn could have visited their church for all we know. Any pastor worth the title is going to keep some of these ex-way people far from their doors. Some of these guys wreak havoc wherever they go.
I'm surprised that you would consider this good pastoring. What about asking God's input before turning someone away? In twi I called this "blanket revelation." Rather than seeking God's guidance in individual situations, some people would rather just make a rule and stick by it. This wasn't John Lynn. It was MStar, apparently seeking a new place perhaps to worship. God certainly could have let the "pastor" know if MStar had been a troublemaker. But no, just make a rule: No ex-wayfers allowed. I'm speechless.
Believing Jesus Christ is God is much different than believing He was just a man.......why shy away from the difference? As you can see, I didn't declare anyone right or wrong...I simply pointed out a vast difference in who we believe Jesus is.....that is just the way it is. But, obviously if I believe something different I must believe it is correct. You or Socks must put your faith in the Jesus you declare? So, you must believe that is the right way? No? That is just logical.
and I do believe Socks invited us to discuss freely? Encouraged even.....
How did you get that I thought this was good pastoring when I said...." I am not saying it was correct to bar anyone entrance without first trying to understand what they were looking for....and I know Mstar has a humble heart....I am sure it was an over reaction. . . "
"... Any pastor worth the title is going to keep some of these ex-way people far from their doors."
But, why is it okay to jump to conclusions about Christianity because of a pastor and church without first having more details?
Many people who were in TWI...don't belong in a church.They are trouble and they hurt people. I am NOT speaking about Mstar...clear enough? Now, I am sure most won't like that little opinion...but, let us all church bash and that is met with great enthusiasm.
The only thing that man learns from history is that mankind is incapable of learning from history.
Why exactly is it that one man designated the Messiah, the Savior of all mankind, whose very sacrifice rent in two the veil to the Temple unifying generations of division between Jew and Gentile, who ate with saint and sinner alike, who reasoned with the most educated in the scriptures as a young boy yet taught simple fishermen to be more than they could dream, who forgave prostitutes, who ate to his last meal with a traitor who would turn him over to be killed, has inspired followers who do nothing but form little groups to magnify their own ego and exclude one another based upon their vain comparisons and exclusions?
Man has the inevitable propensity to consider his neighbor lower than himself.
This is why Christians, who desperately need the body of Christ, really don't understand it and continually try to manufacture their own approximation which inevitably ends up a Frankenstein creation without eyes, ears or a heart.
The only thing that man learns from history is that mankind is incapable of learning from history.
Geisha, when's the last time you saw me bashing a church? I won't argue with you. It would never end.
You did argue with me. I answered you. We disagree. Perhaps it is my communication skills which need work. Either way...I will keep my thoughts to myself from now on.
For the purpose of the poll I spread as wide a blanket as possible, geisha. I'm not defining what a Christian is, just asking the individual reading the question to respond yes, no or if neither of those fits snug enough a 3rd choice - which could also just mean someone doesn't want to answer here and now whether or not there answer would be yes, no or something else.
For the purpose of this li'l survey - yes, no or lemme alone. Is there more to it than that? There would have to be but I was just interested in how those on GS that participated might choose.
It's definitely open here to discussion and thoughts as to what that means for anyone who wants to do that.
- The survey's simmering down - looks like
Yes - 34
No - 7
Prefer not to answer - 2
Total - 43.
If anyone hasn't voted, please do! Thanks to everyone who has!
That looks like a higher percentage of non-Christians than in the general population. Makes you wonder why being a part of TWI at one time led people to reject their faith, huh?
I think perhaps the vote mechanism is closed as I am not able to utilize it so I will answer the poll here:
I am a Christian. I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, borne of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried. I believe that on the third day He arose from the dead, appeared to the disciples and others, and ascended into heaven where He is seated at the right hand of God the Father. I believe He is coming to earth again in due time and will judge the quick and the dead.
I do not believe churches or philosophies matter. I believe that if individuals who call themselves by His Name will seek Him diligently and have a personal relationship with Him their lives will change in ways they never dreamed of.
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Twinky
Will we be gathered together? Will we stay here? Do we SIT? Do we think it's all nonsense? Is Jesus God? Or just a man? To some extent - none of this matters. It really doesn't. What will happ
socks
Thank T'omas!
YMMV - always looks like the Roman numeral for Yahweh
Or the antonym for "yummy". There was a character in the Superman comics years ago - "Mr. Mxyzptlk" if I remember right. Forget what he was all about, one of those inter-dimensional characters. I remember it because I always pronounced it while reading as "Mix - yez - pittle - lik"....yeah, I know. No excuse for what my brain retains.
But YMMV makes me think of that character and a no vowel renderng of some word like "Yo Mi Ma Ahv".
Ok.
Hi hamp! Thanks for participating!
Christianity is such a funny strange religion as practiced by so many throughout history - here a guy says He's come to draw all near, challenges exclusivity both culturally and socially, champions for the weak and sick who pretty much get screwed coming and going, respects children, women, talks to tax collectors for God's sake and even gives the wealthy a break - basically runs a shop that caters to anyone anytime.....and then ends up with followers who spend most of their time figuring out ways to exclude anyone they can lest I dunno, someone get a seat at the Heavenly Banquet that isn't dressed properly. It's weird that what is said to be the most powerful message to come down the pike since "Hey look at this! - round things roll!" gets turned into what amounts to a square hula hoop.
Thanks to everyone who has, for participating and to everyone who hasn't there's still time! Click that bad boy!
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smarter
(Christianity is such a funny strange religion as practiced by so many throughout history - here a guy says He's come to draw all near, challenges exclusivity both culturally and socially, champions for the weak and sick who pretty much get screwed coming and going, respects children, women, talks to tax collectors for God's sake and even gives the wealthy a break - basically runs a shop that caters to anyone anytime.....and then ends up with followers who spend most of their time figuring out ways to exclude anyone they can lest I dunno, someone get a seat at the Heavenly Banquet that isn't dressed properly. It's weird that what is said to be the most powerful message to come down the pike since "Hey look at this! - round things roll!" gets turned into what amounts to a square hula hoop.)
This should be plastered on billboards all over the country.
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Ham
very interesting, isn't it?
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Ham
that would solve all of the problems, wouldn't it..
heal those who have no resources for health insurance..
feed 5,000 unemployed with one loaf of bread. And a few fish.
forgive the government thugs, of either political persuasion. Just tell them don't extort for a living..
I can't paint all organizations with a broad brush, as having violated these tenets..
one of my offspring contributes to a food bank, and some international program. Makes sure people have a sufficient nutritional diet, where the organization can function in the world..
the thing here is..
Christians in the united states have for the most part risen to the challenge.. tried to help the poor and neglected here and in the world..
it just seems the world would be a colder, harsher place if we as a country were reduced to poverty..
I dunno.
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smarter
True story. My brother was in Scotland and decided to attend a church service. He enterd a church and sat down to listen to the service. One of the ushers asked him to leave because he didn't belong to that church.
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Ham
Sounds like a pretty cold, harsh place in Scotland..
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Ham
I hope the cold and harshness does not appear on our shores..
the church I went to this morning with the grandchildren for an Easter egg hunt..
they asked.. "how many of you are not members of this church.."
and about 3/4 or more of the group raised their hands..
and the fellow welcomed those who were not members of this particular home church..
I'm sure there is coldness and hardness now on our soil, but I haven't seen it here, yet..
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Sudo
Socks,
Don't know exactly what you are looking for but you might be interested to know about the recent push by British atheists to get non-religious people to just admit that on their census. Here's a LINK. I was following some comments on another site there that indicated some non-theists are loathe to admit it for various reasons. Kinda' like secular Jews will always say they are Jewish even if they don't believe the religious aspects, as Ham brought up, there are secular Christians, too. They'll say they are Christian in a broader sense but don't believe in any kind of a Christian God.
sudo
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geisha779
I think Christianity is actually thee most exclusive faith that there is Socks....and Jesus may have challenged hypocrisy, but He brought exclusivity by claiming there was one way to the Father. You have a poll asking people if they are are Christian without defining what or who a Christian is.... I bet, if we really examined the parameters of the Christian faith....or even just what you consider Christianity....I would not fall into those same parameters. We believe in a different savior. I am not trying to be rude...it is just the truth.
As for exclusivity....
Jesus said, take up your cross and follow me...die daily....no man can serve two masters. Jesus Christ, the person in whom Christians place their trust, said it was a narrow gate. What about His conversation with Nicodemus, was He pleading with him to join up? No....Jesus never tried to convert anyone...He declared Himself and He declared God.
Many of the records in the gospels reveal a down side to following Christ here on earth. In John, it reveals that once He really started speaking...many of His disciples followed Him no more. They set out to seize Him. Right after Jesus raised Lazarus...they plotted to kill them both.
Jesus said...many are called but few are chosen. He said this more than once and in many different ways. When He prayed in John 17, He was not praying for everyone...He was praying for those God had given Him. In fact, Jesus didn't even come at first for you and I ...He came for Israel....""I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." That is pretty exclusive.
When a gentile came to Him pleading for her daughter...what was His response? He said, it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs. Wow! That is fairly narrow minded by our standards. When the gentile replied that she would take the crumbs that fell under the table...then He told her that her faith was great and then He healed her daughter.
When Jesus said "come unto me all who labor...." who was He speaking to? Sinners? Not everyone thinks they are a sinner.....and does that "come unto me" require something? Continue in my word if you are disciples in deed...You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you....
On it goes...exclusivity is an excellent word to describe Jesus. His disciples were so confused by the exclusivity they had to ask Him, "Who then can be saved?"
We complain on here that VP didn't pastor his flock, and he didn't ...he ravaged it....but, here we have a church who probably was looking out for their flock, and we jump to conclusions. I am not saying it was correct to bar anyone entrance without first trying to understand what they were looking for....and I know Mstar has a humble heart....I am sure it was an over reaction, but, who knows what kind of issues they had in the past with TWI. John Lynn could have visited their church for all we know. Any pastor worth the title is going to keep some of these ex-way people far from their doors. Some of these guys wreak havoc wherever they go.
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Linda Z
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geisha779
Linda,
Believing Jesus Christ is God is much different than believing He was just a man.......why shy away from the difference? As you can see, I didn't declare anyone right or wrong...I simply pointed out a vast difference in who we believe Jesus is.....that is just the way it is. But, obviously if I believe something different I must believe it is correct. You or Socks must put your faith in the Jesus you declare? So, you must believe that is the right way? No? That is just logical.
and I do believe Socks invited us to discuss freely? Encouraged even.....
How did you get that I thought this was good pastoring when I said...." I am not saying it was correct to bar anyone entrance without first trying to understand what they were looking for....and I know Mstar has a humble heart....I am sure it was an over reaction. . . "
"... Any pastor worth the title is going to keep some of these ex-way people far from their doors."
But, why is it okay to jump to conclusions about Christianity because of a pastor and church without first having more details?
Many people who were in TWI...don't belong in a church.They are trouble and they hurt people. I am NOT speaking about Mstar...clear enough? Now, I am sure most won't like that little opinion...but, let us all church bash and that is met with great enthusiasm.
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Linda Z
Geisha, when's the last time you saw me bashing a church? I won't argue with you. It would never end.
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Bramble
This has come up in the past--there are really only a few non-Christians on GSC.
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chockfull
The only thing that man learns from history is that mankind is incapable of learning from history.
Why exactly is it that one man designated the Messiah, the Savior of all mankind, whose very sacrifice rent in two the veil to the Temple unifying generations of division between Jew and Gentile, who ate with saint and sinner alike, who reasoned with the most educated in the scriptures as a young boy yet taught simple fishermen to be more than they could dream, who forgave prostitutes, who ate to his last meal with a traitor who would turn him over to be killed, has inspired followers who do nothing but form little groups to magnify their own ego and exclude one another based upon their vain comparisons and exclusions?
Man has the inevitable propensity to consider his neighbor lower than himself.
This is why Christians, who desperately need the body of Christ, really don't understand it and continually try to manufacture their own approximation which inevitably ends up a Frankenstein creation without eyes, ears or a heart.
The only thing that man learns from history is that mankind is incapable of learning from history.
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geisha779
You did argue with me. I answered you. We disagree. Perhaps it is my communication skills which need work. Either way...I will keep my thoughts to myself from now on.
-------------------------------------------------
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Linda Z
Geisha said:
Whom are you talking about?
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geisha779
Deleted....I have no thoughts on the matter....if I answered it would never end.
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socks
Thanks for the link, sudo!
For the purpose of the poll I spread as wide a blanket as possible, geisha. I'm not defining what a Christian is, just asking the individual reading the question to respond yes, no or if neither of those fits snug enough a 3rd choice - which could also just mean someone doesn't want to answer here and now whether or not there answer would be yes, no or something else.
For the purpose of this li'l survey - yes, no or lemme alone. Is there more to it than that? There would have to be but I was just interested in how those on GS that participated might choose.
It's definitely open here to discussion and thoughts as to what that means for anyone who wants to do that.
- The survey's simmering down - looks like
Yes - 34
No - 7
Prefer not to answer - 2
Total - 43.
If anyone hasn't voted, please do! Thanks to everyone who has!
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cman
I'm all of these-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religions_of_the_world
So I guess I should check all in the poll.
Christ by any other name is still Christ or whatever name preferred.
Or Satan still magnifies Christ, they are the same in the eye.
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waysider
I'd like to see a similar survey on an ex-Scientology site.
Question
Do you still believe you are a descendant of Xenu?
1. Yes
2. No
3. My cousin Guido went to school with Xenu. He still owes Guido 20 bucks.
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socks
Then I suggest you go to an ex- Scientology site and work on getting a similar question posted using those questions.
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johniam
I think the word 'exclusivity' means elitist, as Socks used it, not merely a subset of people with a finite number.
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Sudo
Socks,
That looks like a higher percentage of non-Christians than in the general population. Makes you wonder why being a part of TWI at one time led people to reject their faith, huh?
sudo
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Watered Garden
I think perhaps the vote mechanism is closed as I am not able to utilize it so I will answer the poll here:
I am a Christian. I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, borne of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried. I believe that on the third day He arose from the dead, appeared to the disciples and others, and ascended into heaven where He is seated at the right hand of God the Father. I believe He is coming to earth again in due time and will judge the quick and the dead.
I do not believe churches or philosophies matter. I believe that if individuals who call themselves by His Name will seek Him diligently and have a personal relationship with Him their lives will change in ways they never dreamed of.
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