It appears to me that he replies to posts (often personal attacks) directed at him.
Perhaps if the posters who call him names or make up psychological diagnosis about him poured some cool water on their heads-on-fire then maybe the threads would be shorter.
And, of course, since you "disagree with extreme prejudice" (your words, not mine), Johniam has never made a personal attack, right?
You must've been hearing voices; the ministry never told ME that.
quote: Both in the mix right. But what's the focus? Are you doing what your doing out of greed (wanting greater and greater rewards) and possibly ego (I worked for my rewards harder than you did) or out of love (as God orders us to).
Just because YOU do things out of greed and ego doesn't mean I do.
These are just two. If I worked at it I could come up with more.
Pot and kettle, dude. Pot and kettle. Refresh my memory: what was that you were saying about intellectual honesty?
Is there anything else you'd like to share about yourself?
It doesn't say anything about me: as you recall, your the one that brought up personal attacks, not me. Remember:
It appears to me that he replies to posts (often personal attacks) directed at him.
Just giving you both sides of the story. Your response to Bramble tells me you were unaware of the other side.
Speaking of the other side of the story, as I said, given time I could come up with more examples of Johniam being abusive:
In the time I've been on this forum, the first of December of last year, he's also called people that disagree with him "bitter" and "butt kissers." Not to mention accusing people of having a "forked tongue."
So, if your trying to get rid of personal attacks, maybe you should talk to the other side, huh?
quote: Ever notice how every thread j-iam posts on becomes ABOUT j-iam?
They're not about me, they're about the blatant intolerance posters like Socrates and Waysider force onto the thread. I've tried just ignoring them but it doesn't work; they know that all they have to do is make an issue about some word or phrase I post, and by doing so, THEY are intentionally derailing the thread knowing it'll get blamed on me. I'm sure Lovematters isn't the only one who can see through that crap.
" Ever notice how every thread j-iam posts on becomes ABOUT j-iam? Been that way for years. Have had him on ignore since his last run through GSC, Sigh. It doesn't change. Ruins thread after thread unless you find the topic of j-iam interesting."
IMHO,
it happens a LOT more now than it used to. It stands out so much more than that, even, because he's currently the only chronic derailer currently derailing. What's amazing about that is that we even had a previous chronic derailer post recently, and not derail a thread at all.
lovematters:
"It appears to me that he replies to posts (often personal attacks) directed at him.
Perhaps if the posters who call him names or make up psychological diagnosis about him poured some cool water on their heads-on-fire then maybe the threads would be shorter."
It may APPEAR that way to you, but he also responds to anything he THINKS is directed at him, which may have NOTHING to do with him.
I posted about something "drive-by posters" do, and he claimed I was
trying to shut him up.
Perhaps if he cooled himself down and didn't type angry, he wouldn't make
mistakes like that, and suddenly make things about him, derailing existing
discussions. Then threads would DEFINITELY be shorter.
quote: Ever notice how every thread j-iam posts on becomes ABOUT j-iam?
They're not about me, they're about the blatant intolerance posters like Socrates and Waysider force onto the thread. I've tried just ignoring them but it doesn't work; they know that all they have to do is make an issue about some word or phrase I post, and by doing so, THEY are intentionally derailing the thread knowing it'll get blamed on me. I'm sure Lovematters isn't the only one who can see through that crap.
I'm sure few posters other than lovematters miss how this is NOT
true, since they're around and watch thread after thread get pulled off
course by the same poster. Once Johniam has decided some subject that's
been posted is about him, the thread's pretty much shot.
This very thread's not a bad example of that. Even the original poster
has noticed how others responded to HIM, continuing his discussion,
but John made it about John,
(snip)
In other news,
why do all the people who object to the GSC all use THE SAME LANGUAGE?
There's always this obsession with infants in a tub. EVERY FREAKING TIME someone doesn't like us,
they mention a baby, and bathwater, and a few other things, and that's about all they say.
It's like they're all reading from a short script or something. Aren't any of you permitted to
think for yourselves? I mean, if we got the same complaints, I'd expect them to use different
phrases to make them.
(snip)
Again with this "tripped out" thing. Same language again! Is there some "anti-GSC Manifesto"
or something with the handful of phrases? It's got to come from SOMEWHERE.
geisha779:
"This is an interesting and provocative question. I have wondered the same thing too...are there talking points issued somewhere? Good observation...thanks for making me think. Where else did we hear that term baby and bathwater used?"
(snip)
I think he was trying to bully me (and by association, Tony) into silence. The self appointed damage control czar at it again. For many here, the other side of the story has become the ONLY side of the story, and when Tony makes an honest observation like "why are there so many tripped out Christians here?" this is a problem. He has what? 30 posts? WWs message was very clear.
My post was never ABOUT John. Did he mention babies and bathwater, or being tripped out? I was addressing a "HANDFUL OF PHRSASES" and the original poster SPECIFICALLY. I even quoted the post I was responding to. How did John ever enter the discussion?
"I think he was trying to bully me into silence."
"WWs message was very clear."
For John to think it was "very clear" I was even ADDRESSING HIM,
let alone "trying to bully him", it's obvious he's not reading the same
posts everyone else is reading. The rest of us discussed the handful
of phrases and moved on. socks was nice enough to identify their source.
socks:
"I'll leave "the" alone, it's earned it's place. Baby and bathwater was fine the first 100 times I heard it in the context of Wayfer's leaving the Way. Think it was in a John Lynn writ. John Lynn's about as glib as it gets and is kind of a poster child for fast-talking-now-u-see-it-don't-worry-if-you-don't-get it. So it didn't surprise me there. Then it seemed to gather steam in ex-Wayfer circles.THIS and many other LINKS googled can shed light on the origin of the phrase. As always I'd recommend some comparative reading to get a handle on it. (note to self: check on "handles" and possible origins relating to "scandals" and the relationship of rhyming to meaning).
But I get your point johniam. Use the word "available" in certain circles and they'll go nuclear on you (note to self: check that one too). And that's good because using that word post-Way indicates the need for a good brain scrub to avoid a rash of bad dreams populated by people dressed in polyester suits carrying bibles.
Yet - I admit it. I'm tired of that phrase "baby and the bathwater". It's "glib" - it indicates to me a lack of thought, an easy way to refer to a topic that is really much larger and deeper.
(snip)"
John rarely seems to let what the posters actually post keep him from
objecting to something- even if it's nothing at all like what the posters
ACTUALLY SAID...
(snip)
So where are we?
Here's where I stand: you want to drink Saint Vic's Kool-Aid, feel free to. Its your problem. But don't expect me to drink it and certainly don't try and ram it down my throat. I don't appreciate it.
SoCrates
quote:
Here's where I stand: you want to drink Saint Vic's Kool-Aid, feel free to. Its your problem. But don't expect me to drink it and certainly don't try and ram it down my throat. I don't appreciate it.
So anybody who disagrees with you is "ramming something down your throat"? Wonder what a psychiatrist would say about that.
John, do your feet ever get tired from doing the strawman shuffle?
I mean really, John, "anybody who disagrees with you"?
"It appears to me that he replies to posts (often personal attacks) directed at him.
Perhaps if the posters who call him names or make up psychological diagnosis about him poured some cool water on their heads-on-fire then maybe the threads would be shorter."
It may APPEAR that way to you, but he also responds to anything he THINKS is directed at him, which may have NOTHING to do with him.
Not trying to be mean, just wanted to point out that j-iam is not a new poster and he has not changed from the poster who lead the rascal wars. Among others. He had his supporters, I'm surprised they haven't joined back up.
Remember when About the Way/OPen were the equivalent of the political forum in animosity? The trinity White Dove, Johnny Lingo and Johniam with his side kick Mrs I am. Not good times. I say ignore him and don't let him rise to power once again.
Well, perhaps in closing and pre-tripping out on this thread, one last thought-the johnster said:
I think he was trying to bully me (and by association, Tony) into silence.
This is where I think the dynamic or process of whatever of a discussion board is much like normal conversation johniam. In a group of people discussing something passionately, there will be those who speak loudly and often, others who listen more and speak less and some who text on their cell phone and grunt every once in awhile.
Where different or opposing views are held on a specific subject, the perspective of the contributions will pretty much be the same - right? There may be different things discussed and expounded on but if you take a vote every 10,000 words to see who's changed their mind from their original position the vote's going to come up the same each time on the primary topic driving the conversation when the purpose is to express, explain, prove and extrapolate on those positions.
"Silence"?
When did that ever happen around GS? There's no silence around here. GS quacks as loud and frequently as any Grade A duck I've ever heard. It can't even close itself down. Announce it's closing and what happens - posting! There's no silence unless the new silence is the old noise X 10.
However where opposing views meet - sparks will fly.
I guess my point is just the Einstein thingie - doing the same thing repeatedly but expecting different results?.....hammer hits the nail, the nail goes in. Hit's the fingernail - ow! Pretty much always the same.
Not trying to be mean, just wanted to point out that j-iam is not a new poster and he has not changed from the poster who lead the rascal wars. Among others. He had his supporters, I'm surprised they haven't joined back up.
Remember when About the Way/OPen were the equivalent of the political forum in animosity? The trinity White Dove, Johnny Lingo and Johniam with his side kick Mrs I am. Not good times. I say ignore him and don't let him rise to power once again.
In fairness, Bramble,
I've participated in at least one discussion-thread with Mrs Iam, where we both contributed,
discussed, disagreed and agreed, with thinking, reasoning and evaluating involved.
In short, a real discussion. She's offered more here than just, say, adding fuel to the
fire of flame-wars. If that wasn't the case, I'd consider the term "sidekick" to apply,
RASCAL WARS??? Man I think you all just might be crazy! Such fighting about stupid little details is amazing. What a crazy place this is I think I will go and have a
Wordwolf: Just because you post in anger doesn't mean that I do. I just feel the need to defend myself sometimes.
Bramble: Rise to power????? That's as delusional as it gets. I ain't nobody. I'm just an ex wayfer with an opinion. You GIVE me fictitious power by overreacting to me.
Tony and Geisha: Never heard this phrase (rascal wars) before, but Rascal is a female poster who has been on here for quite awhile and who has been interviewed by Pawtucket on Greasespot radio. She is usually outspoken and passionate about whatever she is interested in. She and I used to lock horns a lot. She has seemingly decided to NOT engage me since I returned here 4 months ago. I suspect she is watching from a distance. If that's not what Bramble is referring to, then I don't know.
General: I don't have "supporters". Whitedove, Mike, Oldiesman, Chwester, and my wife seemed to agree on many things. JohnnyLingo (Clayjay) was not afraid to chime in at times, but he disagreed with me a lot, too. Bramble feels that it is not good that even 6 out of how ever many hundreds of posters there are who post at least once a week, that even 6 dissenters are allowed to speak. The reason they haven't "joined back up" is because they got sick of feeling like they were casting their pearls....yeah. This confirms something.
I believe in the power of words. On another thread I spoke of taking a college class from a prof. Robert Beloof. He once told our class that a big vocabulary is a powerful weapon. Sometimes I post stuff because it comes up again and again in my mind and I want to see what effect it has on other people. Like I said, I ain't nobody. I don't seek public office. Never ran for student council. Don't want "supporters". My only bond with you all is time spent in twi.
Sometimes I send emails to the STL post-dispatch; I've gotten several printed. My only strategy is to have the most impact with the fewest words. The only other forum I've posted on is the Grateful Dead's website. Again, I share a bond with them because I like the music they like, but I never followed the band on tour like many of them did. I can't bond with them beyond a certain point.
In twi, I drank that koolaid for 18 years. Loved it, for the most part, until they got blatantly abusive. Here sometimes it's words against words.
quote:
My post was never ABOUT John. Did he mention babies and bathwater, or being tripped out? I was addressing a "HANDFUL OF PHRSASES" and the original poster SPECIFICALLY. I even quoted the post I was responding to. How did John ever enter the discussion?
Really?
quote:
I agree. Some here HAVE thrown out the baby with the bath water.
What a coincidence. The very post preceding yours. Looks to me like I mentioned baby and bathwater. THAT'S how I entered the discussion.
quote: IMHO,
it happens a LOT more now than it used to. It stands out so much more than that, even, because he's currently the only chronic derailer currently derailing. What's amazing about that is that we even had a previous chronic derailer post recently, and not derail a thread at all.
Sounds like a self appointed damage control czar to me.
quote: Once Johniam has decided some subject that's
been posted is about him, the thread's pretty much shot.
It's shot because the damage control czar shot it down, just like this thread, beginning with post number 18...RIGHT AFTER my first post, which was on topic. Who's REALLY a chronic derailer, WW?
it happens a LOT more now than it used to. It stands out so much more than that, even, because he's currently the only chronic derailer currently derailing. What's amazing about that is that we even had a previous chronic derailer post recently, and not derail a thread at all.
Sounds like a self appointed damage control czar to me.
quote: Once Johniam has decided some subject that's
been posted is about him, the thread's pretty much shot.
It's shot because the damage control czar shot it down, just like this thread, beginning with post number 18...RIGHT AFTER my first post, which was on topic. Who's REALLY a chronic derailer, WW?
So instead of looking at the fact that its your ego, we'll accuse dissenters of damage control, right?
You say you stand for truth, yet your chosen method of truth means nothing to you. Note:
The context was how Jesus adjusted his language according to his audience so they would better recieve his message:
Socrates:
First of all, Lazarus wasn't in hell; he was in Abraham's bosom. That wasn't an "adjustment" it was a strategy. The Pharisees to whom Jesus was speaking believed in immediate punishments and rewards after death. Jesus wasn't addressing their beliefs about the after life, he was addressing their covetousness (v.14). Here, he was humoring them (answering fools according to their folly), but in other places, like Matt. 23, he pulled no punches.
If you are speaking something you believe is absolute truth, you SHOULDN'T water it down or try to appease anyone.
But, you are saying that, because Jesus didn't adjust his communication, you don't need to either. However, as you so conveniently pointed out, he actually DID adjust his communication as the situation warranted.
From the Batteries not included thread in About the Way:
Both in the mix right. But what's the focus? Are you doing what your doing out of greed (wanting greater and greater rewards) and possibly ego (I worked for my rewards harder than you did) or out of love (as God orders us to).
SoCrates
quote: Both in the mix right. But what's the focus? Are you doing what your doing out of greed (wanting greater and greater rewards) and possibly ego (I worked for my rewards harder than you did) or out of love (as God orders us to).
Just because YOU do things out of greed and ego doesn't mean I do. Orders? Hmm. For God so loved the world that He ordered His only begotten son....charity is kind, and that's an ORDER!
Another strawman argument. Did I say you? As Shakespeare said, "Methinks thouist protests too much." What's up? Guilty conscious?
And I will concede: I made an error. It shouldn't be "As God ordered us to" it should be "As God commanded us to"
Two commandments remember: Love God, Love your neighbor. (Matt. 22:37-40):
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Hmmm. Commandment. Because God so loved the world He commanded his only begotten son...doesn't work either, yet gee, that's what he wrote in the book. Charity is kind, and that's commanded.. hey, I'm trying my best to use your logic, Johniam, but it keeps breaking down. But then thats what happens when you try to make facts fit preconcieved notions, rather than looking at the facts objectively and then developing opinions from out of the facts.
Also, here's command's definition in its verbal form:
Wall, stomp on puppies and call me Lucky, that almost sounds like what I said.
SoCrates
Quite a few contradictions there.
I find it interesting a person who talks about the power of words would refuse to adjust his commun ication to serve his purpose, yet has no qualm about adjusting his words to serve his purpose.
I also find it interesting that a person who is the self appointed defender of the truth would even change meanings in the bible when it suits his ability to continue an argument.
Which proves to me that this isn't about wanting the truth to be known or about wanting the other side of the story to be heard.
This is about your ego.
You an ego boost from derailing threads: "Look I can take the focus off the subject and put it on me."
Let me guess, you don't get enough attention at IRL, so you come here and derail threads to "be in the limelight."
It helps to explain why you take general statements personally.
That would, also, go a long way to explain why you think everybody misrepresents you: its not about the thread is it? Its about YOU.
AS I said in an earlier post, none of this helps your credibility.
Tony and Geisha: Never heard this phrase (rascal wars) before, but Rascal is a female poster who has been on here for quite awhile and who has been interviewed by Pawtucket on Greasespot radio. She is usually outspoken and passionate about whatever she is interested in. She and I used to lock horns a lot. She has seemingly decided to NOT engage me since I returned here 4 months ago. I suspect she is watching from a distance. If that's not what Bramble is referring to, then I don't know.
Just to be clear...I know who Rascal is...she is a lovely woman and I have always admired her posts. It was the term "rascal wars" that had me stumped, but just like anything....GSC has a history. I tried to find some of the threads referenced, but gave up after a few minutes. It seemed specific so I was curious... for about a second.
I also know who White Dove, Mike, and Oldiesman are too. It makes sense you all would identify a bit more heavily with each other.
Got it now....
Thanks for clarifying.....please carry on arguing over words.....the meanings of words...and how to use them. :) I bet you do miss TWI.
So Rascal is a person. Wow I'll bet he must be one argumentative SOB to have WARS named after him! Sounds like the "Clone Wars" from Star Trek or whatever.
Thanks for clarifying.....please carry on arguing over words.....the meanings of words...and how to use them. :) I bet you do miss TWI
And yeah Gaysha! These people here remind me of the TWI research department arguing over little words and that. I am concluding that this place is an insane asylum for exTWI people! And then after they have been here for a while they quit being Christians! I would hate to be the person who set all this up because whoever it is is going to have to ANSWER TO GOD for how he helped GODS Children to trip out of being Christians! Good thing we are all BORN AGAIN OF INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
(I Peter 1:23
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever".)
which may actually include whoever runs this place! God's mercy is already on them! But maybe they were not really saved? And since I seem to keep reminding many of you that WASN'T VP but the HOLY SCRIPTURES that tell us of incorruptible seed I'm telling you that isn't VPW but the Bible! Yeah VP first pointed it out to me but GUESS WHAT? Gods Word has been around longer than VP who was born in when in 1925 or somethin?
So Rascal is a person. Wow I'll bet he must be one argumentative SOB to have WARS named after him! Sounds like the "Clone Wars" from Star Trek or whatever.
And yeah Gaysha! These people here remind me of the TWI research department arguing over little words and that. I am concluding that this place is an insane asylum for exTWI people! And then after they have been here for a while they quit being Christians! I would hate to be the person who set all this up because whoever it is is going to have to ANSWER TO GOD for how he helped GODS Children to trip out of being Christians! Good thing we are all BORN AGAIN OF INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
(I Peter 1:23
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever".)
which may actually include whoever runs this place! God's mercy is already on them! But maybe they were not really saved? And since I seem to keep reminding many of you that WASN'T VP but the HOLY SCRIPTURES that tell us of incorruptible seed I'm telling you that isn't VPW but the Bible! Yeah VP first pointed it out to me but GUESS WHAT? Gods Word has been around longer than VP who was born in when in 1925 or somethin?
I admire the person who owns this site. I think he is an incredible person and I am thankful he has created this site. I wish I was more like him.... tactful, fair, and non-judgmental. I never go into someone's house or a place provided for me and then insult my host. Bad form.
I still dont see how I can trip out of something that I never was...
I was a pretty good bibliolater (top notch!) in TWI but christianity was never part of the package that I left behind. Lots of talk, lots of activities, lots of classes, tons and tons and tons of fricking meetings, filling out forms, wearing nametags, leading songs, stringing chairs, cleaning bathrooms, more classes, more and more meetings.
I stayed busy busy busy and knew all the right rap, but where was Christianity?
TWI openly hated and made fun of most of christianity unless some small point suited their ends.
I made the decision to 'chuck the whole thing'- for me it was way too foul. I started again.
I havent shut anything off, Im still honestly looking and take full responsiblility for my decisions to walk away from TWI doctrine and practice
If God wants to make me pay thats completely up to him and I can live with that ---but I do have a slight annoyance with anyone that crosses my path who thinks it is their mission to threaten me into conformity.
I never go into someone's house or a place provided for me and then insult my host. Bad form.
This is his house? So everybody in it must be in The Household? One thing about TWI that drove me crazy was all the LEADERS correcting me and the way I talked because if soemthing was off the Word then I would get "reproofed" for saying the wrong thing and I mean reamed out in front of everybody! But okay I won't say anything bad about the Leader here whoever he is becuase he has to stand before God one day and that will be there business. Anymore I mean.
There is no "leader" here. Pawtucket is the owner of the site. His name is derived from his hometown, Pawtucket, R.I. We call him Paw for short for that reason, not because he is a father figure or some such. He owns the site. It's his "house". It's that simple. We are all guests in his "house". There are volunteer moderators here, much like there are on many other forums, but, for the most part "Paw" is very, very tolerant and patient and he tries to let things run with minimal interference. So, when you're in his house, it's recommended that "house rules" be followed. You can find them listed on the front page of this site.
I see, so you are so sure of what you believe, that it is the right way......that you can actually tell other people HOW they can judge according to their belief system? That is not elitist? You are now pronouncing right or wrong according to what you believe. Wow....the irony. If someone believes the bible is true and Christ is the only way....of COURSE they are going to judge by that belief.....it is their center of reference!!
You have a center of reference and that is fine, there are many of them. It is fine as long as you don't tell others how to judge according to what they believe. When you do that, you set yourself up as the arbiter of truth. It is elitist.
No one says you have to like how others think.....but, you sure don't need to tell them HOW they can think and what is acceptable according to what you believe. Isn't that what you have the problem with?
too many details for me.
just a thought.. one can only be some kind of "elitist" when it comes to oneself..
I can only dictate to myself how to judge..
You have good thoughts friend..
center of reference..
well, when, or if speaks to me, I have little choice but to agree.
I mean.. what are the alternatives here..
generally, a human voice has not ever done this for me. I've pretended at times..
the only thing one can tell another.. is how one choses to judge..
TWI openly hated and made fun of most of christianity unless some small point suited their ends.
No, they made fun of traditions. Jesus did that, too (Matt. 15:1-9).
quote: If God wants to make me pay thats completely up to him and I can live with that -
No need; Christ already paid. Much Christianity does its damndest to convince their congregants that Christ didn't fully pay; that if you don't "get right with God" then you don't have eternal life, so you're at the mercy of whether the minister likes you or not. Any pot smoking 'fellowship' could duplicate that. Like Tony said, incorruptible seed means incorruptible seed. We already got right with God when we got born again.
quote: "Paw" is very, very tolerant and patient and he tries to let things run with minimal interference.
I agree with that. He has suspended me before and he can again, but this is, to my knowledge, the 3rd website of ex way people. The 1st, transnet, made this site look like a meditation room by comparison. Very abbrasive. The second, waydale, was successful and was really the forerunner to GSC, but it discontinued after 1 1/2 years. It's moderator used it to sue twi and my understanding is, it had to close down as a condition of whatever it won from the lawsuit. This site is 11 years old now. Some come and go, others are appalled, but some see it as a sort of lifeline to life after twi. But, like that lady said in the beginning of the movie 'the sword and the sorcerer', "it lives".
Actually, there is a 4th site, exwayvision, made in anticipation of gsc closing down. But most who have left twi for whatever reason, seem to welcome a chance to tell their side of the story, especially since twi kept many of us systematically uninformed about many things. My advice: stick around for a bit. Maybe set a time limit like 3 mo, 6 mo, whatever. Either you will continue to feel like it's an insane asylum, or you may decide hey, these folks ain't so bad.
quote: ...I know who Rascal is...she is a lovely woman and I have always admired her posts. It was the term "rascal wars" that had me stumped, but just like anything....GSC has a history. I tried to find some of the threads referenced, but gave up after a few minutes. It seemed specific so I was curious... for about a second.
That 'a few big things I learned in pfal' thread has some stuff in there, but it's 89 pages. I couldn't tell you exactly where it is. Maybe it's for the best.
That 'a few big things I learned in pfal' thread has some stuff in there, but it's 89 pages. I couldn't tell you exactly where it is. Maybe it's for the best.
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mstar1
There used to be something on the frontpage stating that this was not a specifically christian site. There are a lot of christians here, some people of other faiths, and some people who are agnostic o
WordWolf
[it's a site with many Christians that is not specifically a "Christian" site. All are welcome here, especially those with twi history, for whom this site is meant. (Them and people seeking informat
johniam
Well, good. I've progressed from a wierwille apologist to a whipping boy to a polarity responder. That's encouraging. However, I still prefer son of God.
So_crates
And, of course, since you "disagree with extreme prejudice" (your words, not mine), Johniam has never made a personal attack, right?
These are just two. If I worked at it I could come up with more.
Pot and kettle, dude. Pot and kettle. Refresh my memory: what was that you were saying about intellectual honesty?
SoCrates
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lovematters
You repeat yourself and your memory isn't fresh.
Is there anything else you'd like to share about yourself?
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So_crates
Divert, divert, divert.
It doesn't say anything about me: as you recall, your the one that brought up personal attacks, not me. Remember:
Just giving you both sides of the story. Your response to Bramble tells me you were unaware of the other side.
Speaking of the other side of the story, as I said, given time I could come up with more examples of Johniam being abusive:
In the time I've been on this forum, the first of December of last year, he's also called people that disagree with him "bitter" and "butt kissers." Not to mention accusing people of having a "forked tongue."
So, if your trying to get rid of personal attacks, maybe you should talk to the other side, huh?
SoCrates
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johniam
quote: Ever notice how every thread j-iam posts on becomes ABOUT j-iam?
They're not about me, they're about the blatant intolerance posters like Socrates and Waysider force onto the thread. I've tried just ignoring them but it doesn't work; they know that all they have to do is make an issue about some word or phrase I post, and by doing so, THEY are intentionally derailing the thread knowing it'll get blamed on me. I'm sure Lovematters isn't the only one who can see through that crap.
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WordWolf
Bramble:
"
Ever notice how every thread j-iam posts on becomes ABOUT j-iam? Been that way for years. Have had him on ignore since his last run through GSC, Sigh. It doesn't change. Ruins thread after thread unless you find the topic of j-iam interesting."
IMHO,
it happens a LOT more now than it used to. It stands out so much more than that, even, because he's currently the only chronic derailer currently derailing. What's amazing about that is that we even had a previous chronic derailer post recently, and not derail a thread at all.
lovematters:
"It appears to me that he replies to posts (often personal attacks) directed at him.
Perhaps if the posters who call him names or make up psychological diagnosis about him poured some cool water on their heads-on-fire then maybe the threads would be shorter."
It may APPEAR that way to you, but he also responds to anything he THINKS is directed at him, which may have NOTHING to do with him.
I posted about something "drive-by posters" do, and he claimed I was
trying to shut him up.
Perhaps if he cooled himself down and didn't type angry, he wouldn't make
mistakes like that, and suddenly make things about him, derailing existing
discussions. Then threads would DEFINITELY be shorter.
I'm sure few posters other than lovematters miss how this is NOT
true, since they're around and watch thread after thread get pulled off
course by the same poster. Once Johniam has decided some subject that's
been posted is about him, the thread's pretty much shot.
This very thread's not a bad example of that. Even the original poster
has noticed how others responded to HIM, continuing his discussion,
but John made it about John,
geisha779:
"This is an interesting and provocative question. I have wondered the same thing too...are there talking points issued somewhere? Good observation...thanks for making me think. Where else did we hear that term baby and bathwater used?"
My post was never ABOUT John. Did he mention babies and bathwater, or being tripped out? I was addressing a "HANDFUL OF PHRSASES" and the original poster SPECIFICALLY. I even quoted the post I was responding to. How did John ever enter the discussion?
"I think he was trying to bully me into silence."
"WWs message was very clear."
For John to think it was "very clear" I was even ADDRESSING HIM,
let alone "trying to bully him", it's obvious he's not reading the same
posts everyone else is reading. The rest of us discussed the handful
of phrases and moved on. socks was nice enough to identify their source.
socks:
"I'll leave "the" alone, it's earned it's place. Baby and bathwater was fine the first 100 times I heard it in the context of Wayfer's leaving the Way. Think it was in a John Lynn writ. John Lynn's about as glib as it gets and is kind of a poster child for fast-talking-now-u-see-it-don't-worry-if-you-don't-get it. So it didn't surprise me there. Then it seemed to gather steam in ex-Wayfer circles. THIS and many other LINKS googled can shed light on the origin of the phrase. As always I'd recommend some comparative reading to get a handle on it. (note to self: check on "handles" and possible origins relating to "scandals" and the relationship of rhyming to meaning).
But I get your point johniam. Use the word "available" in certain circles and they'll go nuclear on you (note to self: check that one too). And that's good because using that word post-Way indicates the need for a good brain scrub to avoid a rash of bad dreams populated by people dressed in polyester suits carrying bibles.
Yet - I admit it. I'm tired of that phrase "baby and the bathwater". It's "glib" - it indicates to me a lack of thought, an easy way to refer to a topic that is really much larger and deeper.
(snip)"
John rarely seems to let what the posters actually post keep him from
objecting to something- even if it's nothing at all like what the posters
ACTUALLY SAID...
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soul searcher
ha ha :)
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Bramble
Not trying to be mean, just wanted to point out that j-iam is not a new poster and he has not changed from the poster who lead the rascal wars. Among others. He had his supporters, I'm surprised they haven't joined back up.
Remember when About the Way/OPen were the equivalent of the political forum in animosity? The trinity White Dove, Johnny Lingo and Johniam with his side kick Mrs I am. Not good times. I say ignore him and don't let him rise to power once again.
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socks
Well, perhaps in closing and pre-tripping out on this thread, one last thought-the johnster said:
I think he was trying to bully me (and by association, Tony) into silence.
This is where I think the dynamic or process of whatever of a discussion board is much like normal conversation johniam. In a group of people discussing something passionately, there will be those who speak loudly and often, others who listen more and speak less and some who text on their cell phone and grunt every once in awhile.
Where different or opposing views are held on a specific subject, the perspective of the contributions will pretty much be the same - right? There may be different things discussed and expounded on but if you take a vote every 10,000 words to see who's changed their mind from their original position the vote's going to come up the same each time on the primary topic driving the conversation when the purpose is to express, explain, prove and extrapolate on those positions.
"Silence"?
When did that ever happen around GS? There's no silence around here. GS quacks as loud and frequently as any Grade A duck I've ever heard. It can't even close itself down. Announce it's closing and what happens - posting! There's no silence unless the new silence is the old noise X 10.
However where opposing views meet - sparks will fly.
I guess my point is just the Einstein thingie - doing the same thing repeatedly but expecting different results?.....hammer hits the nail, the nail goes in. Hit's the fingernail - ow! Pretty much always the same.
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WordWolf
In fairness, Bramble,
I've participated in at least one discussion-thread with Mrs Iam, where we both contributed,
discussed, disagreed and agreed, with thinking, reasoning and evaluating involved.
In short, a real discussion. She's offered more here than just, say, adding fuel to the
fire of flame-wars. If that wasn't the case, I'd consider the term "sidekick" to apply,
but I think it does not.
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tonyzamboni
RASCAL WARS??? Man I think you all just might be crazy! Such fighting about stupid little details is amazing. What a crazy place this is
I think I will go and have a 
ps what is a Rascal war?
pps "Rise to power again"? What???
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geisha779
Seriously, what are the "rascal wars" ?
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So_crates
Rascal Wars?
It certainly would go pretty far in explaining why Rascal's avatar is Yoda. :)
SoCrates
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Bramble
Fair enough, Wordwolf. I must have missed that discussion. Not a sidekick then.
Rascal wars--several years ago, v ugly, moved from thread to thread for a very long time, gone but not forgotten. I guess before your times here.
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johniam
Wordwolf: Just because you post in anger doesn't mean that I do. I just feel the need to defend myself sometimes.
Bramble: Rise to power????? That's as delusional as it gets. I ain't nobody. I'm just an ex wayfer with an opinion. You GIVE me fictitious power by overreacting to me.
Tony and Geisha: Never heard this phrase (rascal wars) before, but Rascal is a female poster who has been on here for quite awhile and who has been interviewed by Pawtucket on Greasespot radio. She is usually outspoken and passionate about whatever she is interested in. She and I used to lock horns a lot. She has seemingly decided to NOT engage me since I returned here 4 months ago. I suspect she is watching from a distance. If that's not what Bramble is referring to, then I don't know.
General: I don't have "supporters". Whitedove, Mike, Oldiesman, Chwester, and my wife seemed to agree on many things. JohnnyLingo (Clayjay) was not afraid to chime in at times, but he disagreed with me a lot, too. Bramble feels that it is not good that even 6 out of how ever many hundreds of posters there are who post at least once a week, that even 6 dissenters are allowed to speak. The reason they haven't "joined back up" is because they got sick of feeling like they were casting their pearls....yeah. This confirms something.
I believe in the power of words. On another thread I spoke of taking a college class from a prof. Robert Beloof. He once told our class that a big vocabulary is a powerful weapon. Sometimes I post stuff because it comes up again and again in my mind and I want to see what effect it has on other people. Like I said, I ain't nobody. I don't seek public office. Never ran for student council. Don't want "supporters". My only bond with you all is time spent in twi.
Sometimes I send emails to the STL post-dispatch; I've gotten several printed. My only strategy is to have the most impact with the fewest words. The only other forum I've posted on is the Grateful Dead's website. Again, I share a bond with them because I like the music they like, but I never followed the band on tour like many of them did. I can't bond with them beyond a certain point.
In twi, I drank that koolaid for 18 years. Loved it, for the most part, until they got blatantly abusive. Here sometimes it's words against words.
quote:
My post was never ABOUT John. Did he mention babies and bathwater, or being tripped out? I was addressing a "HANDFUL OF PHRSASES" and the original poster SPECIFICALLY. I even quoted the post I was responding to. How did John ever enter the discussion?
Really?
quote:
I agree. Some here HAVE thrown out the baby with the bath water.
What a coincidence. The very post preceding yours. Looks to me like I mentioned baby and bathwater. THAT'S how I entered the discussion.
quote: IMHO,
it happens a LOT more now than it used to. It stands out so much more than that, even, because he's currently the only chronic derailer currently derailing. What's amazing about that is that we even had a previous chronic derailer post recently, and not derail a thread at all.
Sounds like a self appointed damage control czar to me.
quote: Once Johniam has decided some subject that's
been posted is about him, the thread's pretty much shot.
It's shot because the damage control czar shot it down, just like this thread, beginning with post number 18...RIGHT AFTER my first post, which was on topic. Who's REALLY a chronic derailer, WW?
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So_crates
So instead of looking at the fact that its your ego, we'll accuse dissenters of damage control, right?
You say you stand for truth, yet your chosen method of truth means nothing to you. Note:
The context was how Jesus adjusted his language according to his audience so they would better recieve his message:
From the Batteries not included thread in About the Way:
Quite a few contradictions there.
I find it interesting a person who talks about the power of words would refuse to adjust his commun ication to serve his purpose, yet has no qualm about adjusting his words to serve his purpose.
I also find it interesting that a person who is the self appointed defender of the truth would even change meanings in the bible when it suits his ability to continue an argument.
Which proves to me that this isn't about wanting the truth to be known or about wanting the other side of the story to be heard.
This is about your ego.
You an ego boost from derailing threads: "Look I can take the focus off the subject and put it on me."
Let me guess, you don't get enough attention at IRL, so you come here and derail threads to "be in the limelight."
It helps to explain why you take general statements personally.
That would, also, go a long way to explain why you think everybody misrepresents you: its not about the thread is it? Its about YOU.
AS I said in an earlier post, none of this helps your credibility.
SoCrates
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geisha779
Just to be clear...I know who Rascal is...she is a lovely woman and I have always admired her posts. It was the term "rascal wars" that had me stumped, but just like anything....GSC has a history. I tried to find some of the threads referenced, but gave up after a few minutes. It seemed specific so I was curious... for about a second.
I also know who White Dove, Mike, and Oldiesman are too. It makes sense you all would identify a bit more heavily with each other.
Got it now....
Thanks for clarifying.....please carry on arguing over words.....the meanings of words...and how to use them. :) I bet you do miss TWI.
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tonyzamboni
So Rascal is a person. Wow I'll bet he must be one argumentative SOB to have WARS named after him! Sounds like the "Clone Wars" from Star Trek or whatever.
And yeah Gaysha! These people here remind me of the TWI research department arguing over little words and that. I am concluding that this place is an insane asylum for exTWI people! And then after they have been here for a while they quit being Christians! I would hate to be the person who set all this up because whoever it is is going to have to ANSWER TO GOD for how he helped GODS Children to trip out of being Christians! Good thing we are all BORN AGAIN OF INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
(I Peter 1:23
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever".)
which may actually include whoever runs this place! God's mercy is already on them! But maybe they were not really saved? And since I seem to keep reminding many of you that WASN'T VP but the HOLY SCRIPTURES that tell us of incorruptible seed I'm telling you that isn't VPW but the Bible! Yeah VP first pointed it out to me but GUESS WHAT? Gods Word has been around longer than VP who was born in when in 1925 or somethin?
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geisha779
I admire the person who owns this site. I think he is an incredible person and I am thankful he has created this site. I wish I was more like him.... tactful, fair, and non-judgmental. I never go into someone's house or a place provided for me and then insult my host. Bad form.
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mstar1
Are we back on 'tripped out' again ?
What a long strange trip this thread has been.
That also goes for most threads around here.
I still dont see how I can trip out of something that I never was...
I was a pretty good bibliolater (top notch!) in TWI but christianity was never part of the package that I left behind. Lots of talk, lots of activities, lots of classes, tons and tons and tons of fricking meetings, filling out forms, wearing nametags, leading songs, stringing chairs, cleaning bathrooms, more classes, more and more meetings.
I stayed busy busy busy and knew all the right rap, but where was Christianity?
TWI openly hated and made fun of most of christianity unless some small point suited their ends.
I made the decision to 'chuck the whole thing'- for me it was way too foul. I started again.
I havent shut anything off, Im still honestly looking and take full responsiblility for my decisions to walk away from TWI doctrine and practice
If God wants to make me pay thats completely up to him and I can live with that ---but I do have a slight annoyance with anyone that crosses my path who thinks it is their mission to threaten me into conformity.
been there done that
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tonyzamboni
This is his house? So everybody in it must be in The Household? One thing about TWI that drove me crazy was all the LEADERS correcting me and the way I talked because if soemthing was off the Word then I would get "reproofed" for saying the wrong thing and I mean reamed out in front of everybody! But okay I won't say anything bad about the Leader here whoever he is becuase he has to stand before God one day and that will be there business. Anymore I mean.
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waysider
Tony
There is no "leader" here. Pawtucket is the owner of the site. His name is derived from his hometown, Pawtucket, R.I. We call him Paw for short for that reason, not because he is a father figure or some such. He owns the site. It's his "house". It's that simple. We are all guests in his "house". There are volunteer moderators here, much like there are on many other forums, but, for the most part "Paw" is very, very tolerant and patient and he tries to let things run with minimal interference. So, when you're in his house, it's recommended that "house rules" be followed. You can find them listed on the front page of this site.
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Ham
too many details for me.
just a thought.. one can only be some kind of "elitist" when it comes to oneself..
I can only dictate to myself how to judge..
You have good thoughts friend..
center of reference..
well, when, or if speaks to me, I have little choice but to agree.
I mean.. what are the alternatives here..
generally, a human voice has not ever done this for me. I've pretended at times..
the only thing one can tell another.. is how one choses to judge..
I'm glad I'm not THE judge.
too much work..
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johniam
quote:
TWI openly hated and made fun of most of christianity unless some small point suited their ends.
No, they made fun of traditions. Jesus did that, too (Matt. 15:1-9).
quote: If God wants to make me pay thats completely up to him and I can live with that -
No need; Christ already paid. Much Christianity does its damndest to convince their congregants that Christ didn't fully pay; that if you don't "get right with God" then you don't have eternal life, so you're at the mercy of whether the minister likes you or not. Any pot smoking 'fellowship' could duplicate that. Like Tony said, incorruptible seed means incorruptible seed. We already got right with God when we got born again.
quote: "Paw" is very, very tolerant and patient and he tries to let things run with minimal interference.
I agree with that. He has suspended me before and he can again, but this is, to my knowledge, the 3rd website of ex way people. The 1st, transnet, made this site look like a meditation room by comparison. Very abbrasive. The second, waydale, was successful and was really the forerunner to GSC, but it discontinued after 1 1/2 years. It's moderator used it to sue twi and my understanding is, it had to close down as a condition of whatever it won from the lawsuit. This site is 11 years old now. Some come and go, others are appalled, but some see it as a sort of lifeline to life after twi. But, like that lady said in the beginning of the movie 'the sword and the sorcerer', "it lives".
Actually, there is a 4th site, exwayvision, made in anticipation of gsc closing down. But most who have left twi for whatever reason, seem to welcome a chance to tell their side of the story, especially since twi kept many of us systematically uninformed about many things. My advice: stick around for a bit. Maybe set a time limit like 3 mo, 6 mo, whatever. Either you will continue to feel like it's an insane asylum, or you may decide hey, these folks ain't so bad.
quote: ...I know who Rascal is...she is a lovely woman and I have always admired her posts. It was the term "rascal wars" that had me stumped, but just like anything....GSC has a history. I tried to find some of the threads referenced, but gave up after a few minutes. It seemed specific so I was curious... for about a second.
That 'a few big things I learned in pfal' thread has some stuff in there, but it's 89 pages. I couldn't tell you exactly where it is. Maybe it's for the best.
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waysider
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