You heard it here first, folks, submitted for your consideration and use.
I herewith donate all profits and reward that is sure to flow like the rivers of the muddy Mississippi from this to the future construction of the Pork Memorial Cafeteria where pork products of all kinds can not only be seen and admired but consumed as they were meant to be. (minus my expenses of course, time X materials, say 15 per cent of any money's realized or gained both here and now and in the future and then to be transferred quarterly to the SocksWasHereAndRockedTheBoat Trust). (and use of the copyright symbol crediting me, socks, as the originator of the phase so that there need be no confusion or mistake, it's only fair). Other than that - it's yours!
You heard it here first, folks, submitted for your consideration and use.
I herewith donate all profits and reward that is sure to flow like the rivers of the muddy Mississippi from this to the future construction of the Pork Memorial Cafeteria where pork products of all kinds can not only be seen and admired but consumed as they were meant to be. (minus my expenses of course, time X materials, say 15 per cent of any money's realized or gained both here and now and in the future and then to be transferred quarterly to the SocksWasHereAndRockedTheBoat Trust). (and use of the copyright symbol crediting me, socks, as the originator of the phase so that there need be no confusion or mistake, it's only fair). Other than that - it's yours!
Thank you.
Another round of bacon for the whole house, 6 slices apiece, home-cured and apple-smoked, on the alfakat. Enjoy, everyone. You're on your own for the eggs and toast, though I do recommend the San Francisco sourdough....... :P
But don't throw out the bacon grease either! You can fry your eggs in it, and the deeper the hot bacon grease thebetter because then you can just float your egg on that grease and then your eggs are call SLIDERS.
And okay thanks Word Wolf. I'm just new around here is all.
My grandmother always ran the grease through a strainer and put it in the "ice box" for future use. You haven't lived until you've had a cheese and tomato sandwich fried in bacon grease.
Although I am a Christian...by any stretch of TWI standards....just barely would I maybe be considered a carnal Christian.
So, what is someone who has known the glorious truths presented in PFAL...and rejected them...only to become a Christian later and identify with more orthodox beliefs like the trinity and the dead being alive right now? I don't even have a problem with raising my hands in worship or wearing a cross. I pray to Jesus....and I think He is worthy of worship. My husband and kids have been baptised. Oh, and I refuse to SIT as learned in PFAL. Won't do it.....I don't even think I can anymore.
Oh man - now you're gettin' jiggy alfakat. Toasted sourdough? Oh yeah.
But don't throw out the bacon grease either! You can fry your eggs in it, and the deeper the hot bacon grease the better because then you can just float your egg on that grease and then your eggs are call SLIDERS.
Tony, you're clearly in the right place. Say on bra' say on.
And waysider you are in the house! My Mom did about the same thing when I was a wee tyke. Long before "Pam" the midwestern cooking style was to use that grease for cooking and yes! Scrambled eggs, I think they that's called cooking them "dirty" in some areas, where the eggs go right in after the bacon or ham.
No arteries are safe here, clearly but a little bit goes a long way. It would seem a new administration is underway, transitioning from the old to the new and now-
grease can be saved! grease can be saved!!! Where in the past the dirty water was tossed out bringing both risk and danger to the innocent babes who could thoughtlessly be thrown into the gehenna where hair colorations and all manner of demonic concoctions gurgle up from the deep we see that grease - cam be saved! It makes so much sense - "the fatted calf"....that fat's got to be good for something after all that fattening up! and it's the flavor!! From the grease comes the flavor.
To me the bath water when it gets thrown out is dirty bath water. The bad stuff in TWI is the dirty bath water.
The Baby to me is Christianity in general. We were trying to be Christians but found out by experience or observation that TWI wasn't what we thought it was. But we were in it because we wanted to be CHRISTIANS and tried to follow Jesus and were attracted by much Bible examination instead of church bingo or guys with boofont hairdos that ended every word with ah. You know, Jesus-ah!
I agree with that! The baby is what GOD wrought in Christ. The bathwater is the sum of all human BS...ANYWHERE! I've been posting this for 4 months now. Anybody who claims they can't see it is guilty of very fine tuned selective reasoning.
Speaking of babies and bathwater, I have 3 kids. They haven't been babies for awhile, but anybody with kids ever NOT bathe them??? Social workers and other professional people will get involved after awhile.
quote:
You don't move toward things, you move away. Rather than moving toward pleasure, you life centers around avoiding pain. You avoid answering direct questions because some of the answers may be painful.
Your more reactive than proactive.
LOL!!! What a crock of....bathwater. You wonder why I don't answer your questions? This reaffirms for me why I think psychiatry/psychology is bogus.
quote: Consider what the ministry told us:
•This is the absolute truth
•Only we have it
•We've reached our conclusions through extensive research
•This works with a mathematical exactness and a scientific percision
•You have to have faith that the things we tell you are true.
•If its not working for you its because you don't have enough faith
You must've been hearing voices; the ministry never told ME that.
You don't move toward things, you move away. Rather than moving toward pleasure, you life centers around avoiding pain. You avoid answering direct questions because some of the answers may be painful.
Your more reactive than proactive.
LOL!!! What a crock of....bathwater. You wonder why I don't answer your questions? This reaffirms for me why I think psychiatry/psychology is bogus.
I would expect a polarity responder to tell me the opposite I was expecting: Rather than saying your wrong and here's why, you insult and get aggressive.
Polarity Response is a behavior unfamiliar in name but not in most everyone’s experience. Whatever the issue or opinion, the polarity responder takes the opposite view. Disagreement is automatic. This can include and goes past the devil’s advocate role some people take on in groups. Most polarity responders seem unaware of their behavior and its impact on others. (source)
No, I don't wonder why you don't answer questions, I already know. Part of it is you refuse to answer because I expect an answer. Yet on a deeper level, answering questions would require you examining your beliefs, which you don't want to do because you may realize your wrong. Being wrong for you is a frightening thing which would create a lot of anxiety--one example of the pain I'm refering to that your avoiding.
A good example is the whole baby and bathwater schtick. As polarity responders do, rather then giving a direct answer as I would have expected, you chose to dodge the question, doing variations on baby and bathwater. Remember?
OK let me see what other ways I can express "throw out the baby with the bathwater"....
throw out the pearl with the oyster
throw out the chewy caramel center with the tootsie roll pop
First Tonyzamboni came up with his answer. Which was followed by your proper answer, which was a variation of Tonyzamboni's.
I also find it interesting that out of four psychological points you chose "avoiding pain" to attack (perhaps this is the one you most agree with). I assume its because it really annoys you, it hits so close to home.
Which gives the reason for the LOL. Nervous laughter. Another sign of how close to home it hits.
•We've reached our conclusions through extensive research
•This works with a mathematical exactness and a scientific percision
•You have to have faith that the things we tell you are true.
•If its not working for you its because you don't have enough faith
You must've been hearing voices; the ministry never told ME that.
As a polarity responder, I'm not surprised you dissented.
The above is a list of metabeliefs or overriding beliefs. You have to believe them before you buy into the particular churches doctrine or rituals.
The ministry never told you the above? looking at it from a polarity responders perspective, you must have heard it quite a bit, why else would you be denying it?
However, I'll play the game. Consider:
Saint Vic never said the Word worked with a mathamatical exactness and a scientific precision in PLAF?
We were never told we had to take his version of the original sin on faith? You were never told you had to take the fact that Jesus Christ was crucified and raised from the dead three days later on faith?
We were never told if we had a great failing (somebody died, lost a job, etc.) it was because of our beliving?
And what was all the Greek and Hebrew for, if not to prove through research the conclusions they arrived at?
You were never told we were going to teach people the Word like it was taught in the First Century (as it was meant to be taught)? Also, why move something over the world you don't feel is the absolute truth and only you have it?
You were never told the Word of God was truth? The original Word was God-breathe? The original Word was perfect and "fits like a hand in a glove?" (Absolute truth)
If the ministry's version of the bible isn't absolute truth, what is? If the ministry didn't have absolute truth, who did? If PLAF didn't teach the absolute truth, what did? (I don't buy these. They're rhetorical to prove a point)
If you don't believe Saint Vic was teaching you the absolute truth then why make excuses for his ripping people off, his neferious activities, and his bullying? And where did this understanding, that he was teaching the truth, come from?
If you don't believe the bible is absolute truth, why quote it in your arguments? And where did that understanding it was absolute truth come from?
Since I took the list as statement of fact, it would only follow that you would disagree. Which, of course, tells me how much you actually agree with the list.
Well, ..... at least I am not an empty floating by. Do you think God will ever spit in my direction? Am I an unbelieving believer? Carnal Christian? In the family, but not the Masters household? Am I sneaking in the back door but not sitting in the living room? Am I in Christen dumb dumb..... ? Perhaps I am a bastard baby left on the side of the road? :)
God, please have mercy on those of us exposed to such hatefulness and arrogance of spirit spoken so seductively in your name.
I was thinking about the bath water...and then that poor tossed baby.....if the bath water is the theology we rid ourselves of from TWI....dirty and useless....it is probably good to remember....the baby we think we know.....was left soaking in that. Perhaps we need to get some cleaner water which can help us see the baby or God as He is.
Theology is important because it isn't just what we use to describe the things we know about God..... it is really how we come to know God. If we have a dirty theology...we know a less than pure and true God.
God is too holy for us to sully ourselves in relation to Him by embracing something so dirty as a bit of VP's or TWI's theology. It doesn't sully God....it dirties us. We just get stuck with some caricature of God. There is a revelation of God in scripture that is much different than what we knew in TWI.
What harm is there in asking ourselves something so important as why we think like we do about God? Seems like a pretty important question to me. We don't need to fear the answers or be afraid of changing our minds. Maybe even having to say..."I just don't know". There may even be some things we just don't like.
It is good to remember that we were exposed to some pretty bizarre and hateful things. . . . doctrines which isolated us from those who maybe can help us overcome them. If we call ourselves Christian...we need to at least be able to reach out to others who are Christians...and understand what it is they embrace. It may shock us a bit to realize we are no where near embracing the same God....the same understanding of scripture....or even the same faith! It is good to work these things out for ourselves.
Aside from all of this bickering about whether Johniam said things RIGHT or not (is Johniam a whipping boy?), or whether or not I know JACK (who is Jack? Jack In The Beanstalk?), it is still SAD that some people who left TWI for VERY GOOD REASONS have now tripped out/walked away/given up on being Christians no matter what they experienced in TWI and that is SAD. There are plenty of good Christians to fellowship with who were never in TWI. I dont go to any Way Offshoot and I dont look to find any. I guess this is the only WAY OFFSHOOT I have been to. Haha! But anyway God is still God and Jesus is still the Savior for all Mankind. And the good news for those who have walked away from God and His Word(and I DONT mean walking away from TWI and it's doctrine. Man, some here keep thinking I mean that as Christianity and I dont), is that Once Saved Always Saved! Oh VP said not to say it that way, BUT, I can and I did! Romans 10:9 IS true and shalt be means shalt be! And so does incorruptible seed mean what it says without any TWI research. So one Day when Christ comes back, some will get a huge surprise when they get gathered together when they thought that it was all a bunch of BALONEY. Haha! And what a DAY that will be for us all! Have a nice day! :-)
PS
can someone tell me how to use the italics and maybe the quotation things in the tool bar? I dont like using capitols like that because it looks stupid like Im yelling because I am not but just want to make an emphasis.
can someone tell me how to use the italics and maybe the quotation things in the tool bar? I dont like using capitols like that because it looks stupid like Im yelling because I am not but just want to make an emphasis.
First, highlight what you want italicized or quoted then hit the respective button.
I do however have reason to believe he's a polarity responder.
Polarity Response is a behavior unfamiliar in name but not in most everyone’s experience. Whatever the issue or opinion, the polarity responder takes the opposite view. Disagreement is automatic. This can include and goes past the devil’s advocate role some people take on in groups. Most polarity responders seem unaware of their behavior and its impact on others.(source)
Polarity responders are the type of people that if you said something, they disagree with you. No matter what you say, they disagree with you. Request they do something and they'll do the opposite.
You could say the sky is blue and they would insist there are shades of green in it. You could tell them water is wet and they would insist in some far off place in Shanghai they've figure out how to make it dry.
As you can imagine, this makes for many unneccessary conflicts: I mean, I know few people who would defend a rapist (Saint Vic) saying "Well, he did do some good." Or who would categorize mental abuse as telling people to get their act together (Colon cleanse. Cookies. Accident. Aftermath). In all likelihood, both responses are polarity reponses.
Polarity response is neither bad nor good, its just the way a potion of the population's brains are wired.
Aside from all of this bickering about whether Johniam said things RIGHT or not (is Johniam a whipping boy?)....
don't know about that - but here's the words to the Allman Brothers' "Whipping Post":
I've been run down
I've been lied to
And I don't know why ... I let that mean woman make me a fool
She took all my money ... wrecked my new car
Now she's with one of my good time buddies ... they're drinkin' in some cross town bar
Sometimes I feel
Sometimes I feel ... like I've been tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Good Lord I feel like I'm dyin'
My friends tell me ... that I've been such a fool
And I have to stand by and take it baby ... all for lovin' you
I drown myself in sorrow ... as I look at what you've done
But nothin' seems to change ... the bad times stay the same ... and I can't run
Sometimes I feel
Sometimes I feel ... like I've been tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Good Lord I feel like I'm dyin'
Sometimes I feel
Sometimes I feel ... like I've been tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Good Lord I feel like I'm dyin'
~ ~
man, i love that tune - we'd play that in the first band i played with....we'd jam for hours.....till i thought my fingers would fall off - it was like my bass was a whipping post....
I don't find it especially "sad" that some people longer consider themselves Christians. It simply is what it is. It will only make you "sad" if you believe that Christianity is the only valid belief system worth following. And, if that is the case for you, that's fine, as long as you don't use that belief to judge and rate others. That would be elitist. Some people, however, have found that other belief systems, or combinations of belief systems, work better for them. You have to go with what works for you, not the next guy. I suppose,though, a lot of it eventually comes down to the issue of eternal life. Not everyone views that as the single most important aspect of their belief system. For example, there is no eternal life aspect to Judaism. Does that make it a bad belief system to follow? Only if eternal life is the key element one is seeking. Even then, there are other belief systems besides Christianity that focus on the afterlife.
Well, good. I've progressed from a wierwille apologist to a whipping boy to a polarity responder. That's encouraging. However, I still prefer son of God.
I don't find it especially "sad" that some people longer consider themselves Christians. It simply is what it is. It will only make you "sad" if you believe that Christianity is the only valid belief system worth following. And, if that is the case for you, that's fine, as long as you don't use that belief to judge and rate others. That would be elitist.
I see, so you are so sure of what you believe, that it is the right way......that you can actually tell other people HOW they can judge according to their belief system? That is not elitist? You are now pronouncing right or wrong according to what you believe. Wow....the irony. If someone believes the bible is true and Christ is the only way....of COURSE they are going to judge by that belief.....it is their center of reference!!
You have a center of reference and that is fine, there are many of them. It is fine as long as you don't tell others how to judge according to what they believe. When you do that, you set yourself up as the arbiter of truth. It is elitist.
No one says you have to like how others think.....but, you sure don't need to tell them HOW they can think and what is acceptable according to what you believe. Isn't that what you have the problem with?
First, thatnkyou Word Wolf and Socrates for helping me with posting. Now I will try a quote:
For example, there is no eternal life aspect to Judaism. Does that make it a bad belief system to follow?
Um well, the wrong one to follow anyways.Lets see. Eternal life through Jesus or you just die and go into a black hole. Which would you rather have? Thats a No Brainer to me.
And Geisha that was a pretty smart answer there. I was gong to respond to it but you said it better than I had even thought of it. And Johniam you sound like a good brother but people here some of them not all of them seem to get after you for some reason. And I want you all to know that I see that this isn't a Christian sight. I guess I expected it to be because we were all in TWI at one time trying to be Christians. So I respect your decision to disagree on beliefs. I still have an opinion about it though.
Eternal life through Jesus or you just die and go into a black hole. Which would you rather have? Thats a No Brainer to me.
I've accepted the fact that I'm a mortal creature, so the prospect of eternal death isn't that frightening for me. If I'm dead forever, so what? I'll never know it.
Besides, what guarantee can you offer me of eternal life? You can't. It can't be proven one way or the other. Last I checked, nobody's returned from the dead, to verify or refute an afterlife. Further, according to some religious doctrines, its possible to live a totally pious life and still "go into a blackhole."
However, that may be the source of anger directed toward Saint Vic: I had only one shot to get done what I wanted to get done during this lifetime. Now, thanks to Saint Vic and his demented circus with its fleabitten acts and moth-eaten tents--not to mention rickety rides that go nowhere--that may never happen.
Um well, the wrong one to follow anyways.Lets see. Eternal life through Jesus or you just die and go into a black hole. Which would you rather have? Thats a No Brainer to me.
. . .
If eternal life turns out to $uck foot . . . well no brainer . . . black hole.
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mstar1
There used to be something on the frontpage stating that this was not a specifically christian site. There are a lot of christians here, some people of other faiths, and some people who are agnostic o
WordWolf
[it's a site with many Christians that is not specifically a "Christian" site. All are welcome here, especially those with twi history, for whom this site is meant. (Them and people seeking informat
johniam
Well, good. I've progressed from a wierwille apologist to a whipping boy to a polarity responder. That's encouraging. However, I still prefer son of God.
socks
"Don't toss out the bacon with the grease".
You heard it here first, folks, submitted for your consideration and use.
I herewith donate all profits and reward that is sure to flow like the rivers of the muddy Mississippi from this to the future construction of the Pork Memorial Cafeteria where pork products of all kinds can not only be seen and admired but consumed as they were meant to be. (minus my expenses of course, time X materials, say 15 per cent of any money's realized or gained both here and now and in the future and then to be transferred quarterly to the SocksWasHereAndRockedTheBoat Trust). (and use of the copyright symbol crediting me, socks, as the originator of the phase so that there need be no confusion or mistake, it's only fair). Other than that - it's yours!
Thank you.
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alfakat
Another round of bacon for the whole house, 6 slices apiece, home-cured and apple-smoked, on the alfakat. Enjoy, everyone. You're on your own for the eggs and toast, though I do recommend the San Francisco sourdough....... :P
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tonyzamboni
But don't throw out the bacon grease either! You can fry your eggs in it, and the deeper the hot bacon grease thebetter because then you can just float your egg on that grease and then your eggs are call SLIDERS.
And okay thanks Word Wolf. I'm just new around here is all.
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waysider
My grandmother always ran the grease through a strainer and put it in the "ice box" for future use. You haven't lived until you've had a cheese and tomato sandwich fried in bacon grease.
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geisha779
Okay....so tripped out is...what?
Although I am a Christian...by any stretch of TWI standards....just barely would I maybe be considered a carnal Christian.
So, what is someone who has known the glorious truths presented in PFAL...and rejected them...only to become a Christian later and identify with more orthodox beliefs like the trinity and the dead being alive right now? I don't even have a problem with raising my hands in worship or wearing a cross. I pray to Jesus....and I think He is worthy of worship. My husband and kids have been baptised. Oh, and I refuse to SIT as learned in PFAL. Won't do it.....I don't even think I can anymore.
Am I doomed or just misguided?
I think we need a new classification.
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excathedra
i'm drowning in jargon ;)
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So_crates
Is that like Calgon?
SoCrates
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socks
Both Geisha.
Oh man - now you're gettin' jiggy alfakat. Toasted sourdough? Oh yeah.
But don't throw out the bacon grease either! You can fry your eggs in it, and the deeper the hot bacon grease the better because then you can just float your egg on that grease and then your eggs are call SLIDERS.
Tony, you're clearly in the right place. Say on bra' say on.
And waysider you are in the house! My Mom did about the same thing when I was a wee tyke. Long before "Pam" the midwestern cooking style was to use that grease for cooking and yes! Scrambled eggs, I think they that's called cooking them "dirty" in some areas, where the eggs go right in after the bacon or ham.
No arteries are safe here, clearly but a little bit goes a long way. It would seem a new administration is underway, transitioning from the old to the new and now-
grease can be saved! grease can be saved!!! Where in the past the dirty water was tossed out bringing both risk and danger to the innocent babes who could thoughtlessly be thrown into the gehenna where hair colorations and all manner of demonic concoctions gurgle up from the deep we see that grease - cam be saved! It makes so much sense - "the fatted calf"....that fat's got to be good for something after all that fattening up! and it's the flavor!! From the grease comes the flavor.
Let the marbling roll...!
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johniam
quote:
To me the bath water when it gets thrown out is dirty bath water. The bad stuff in TWI is the dirty bath water.
The Baby to me is Christianity in general. We were trying to be Christians but found out by experience or observation that TWI wasn't what we thought it was. But we were in it because we wanted to be CHRISTIANS and tried to follow Jesus and were attracted by much Bible examination instead of church bingo or guys with boofont hairdos that ended every word with ah. You know, Jesus-ah!
I agree with that! The baby is what GOD wrought in Christ. The bathwater is the sum of all human BS...ANYWHERE! I've been posting this for 4 months now. Anybody who claims they can't see it is guilty of very fine tuned selective reasoning.
Speaking of babies and bathwater, I have 3 kids. They haven't been babies for awhile, but anybody with kids ever NOT bathe them??? Social workers and other professional people will get involved after awhile.
quote:
You don't move toward things, you move away. Rather than moving toward pleasure, you life centers around avoiding pain. You avoid answering direct questions because some of the answers may be painful.
Your more reactive than proactive.
LOL!!! What a crock of....bathwater. You wonder why I don't answer your questions? This reaffirms for me why I think psychiatry/psychology is bogus.
quote: Consider what the ministry told us:
•This is the absolute truth
•Only we have it
•We've reached our conclusions through extensive research
•This works with a mathematical exactness and a scientific percision
•You have to have faith that the things we tell you are true.
•If its not working for you its because you don't have enough faith
You must've been hearing voices; the ministry never told ME that.
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So_crates
I would expect a polarity responder to tell me the opposite I was expecting: Rather than saying your wrong and here's why, you insult and get aggressive.
Polarity Response is a behavior unfamiliar in name but not in most everyone’s experience. Whatever the issue or opinion, the polarity responder takes the opposite view. Disagreement is automatic. This can include and goes past the devil’s advocate role some people take on in groups. Most polarity responders seem unaware of their behavior and its impact on others. (source)
No, I don't wonder why you don't answer questions, I already know. Part of it is you refuse to answer because I expect an answer. Yet on a deeper level, answering questions would require you examining your beliefs, which you don't want to do because you may realize your wrong. Being wrong for you is a frightening thing which would create a lot of anxiety--one example of the pain I'm refering to that your avoiding.
A good example is the whole baby and bathwater schtick. As polarity responders do, rather then giving a direct answer as I would have expected, you chose to dodge the question, doing variations on baby and bathwater. Remember?
First Tonyzamboni came up with his answer. Which was followed by your proper answer, which was a variation of Tonyzamboni's.
I also find it interesting that out of four psychological points you chose "avoiding pain" to attack (perhaps this is the one you most agree with). I assume its because it really annoys you, it hits so close to home.
Which gives the reason for the LOL. Nervous laughter. Another sign of how close to home it hits.
SoCrates
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So_crates
As a polarity responder, I'm not surprised you dissented.
The above is a list of metabeliefs or overriding beliefs. You have to believe them before you buy into the particular churches doctrine or rituals.
The ministry never told you the above? looking at it from a polarity responders perspective, you must have heard it quite a bit, why else would you be denying it?
However, I'll play the game. Consider:
Saint Vic never said the Word worked with a mathamatical exactness and a scientific precision in PLAF?
We were never told we had to take his version of the original sin on faith? You were never told you had to take the fact that Jesus Christ was crucified and raised from the dead three days later on faith?
We were never told if we had a great failing (somebody died, lost a job, etc.) it was because of our beliving?
And what was all the Greek and Hebrew for, if not to prove through research the conclusions they arrived at?
You were never told we were going to teach people the Word like it was taught in the First Century (as it was meant to be taught)? Also, why move something over the world you don't feel is the absolute truth and only you have it?
You were never told the Word of God was truth? The original Word was God-breathe? The original Word was perfect and "fits like a hand in a glove?" (Absolute truth)
If the ministry's version of the bible isn't absolute truth, what is? If the ministry didn't have absolute truth, who did? If PLAF didn't teach the absolute truth, what did? (I don't buy these. They're rhetorical to prove a point)
If you don't believe Saint Vic was teaching you the absolute truth then why make excuses for his ripping people off, his neferious activities, and his bullying? And where did this understanding, that he was teaching the truth, come from?
If you don't believe the bible is absolute truth, why quote it in your arguments? And where did that understanding it was absolute truth come from?
Since I took the list as statement of fact, it would only follow that you would disagree. Which, of course, tells me how much you actually agree with the list.
SoCrates
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geisha779
Well, ..... at least I am not an empty floating by. Do you think God will ever spit in my direction? Am I an unbelieving believer? Carnal Christian? In the family, but not the Masters household? Am I sneaking in the back door but not sitting in the living room? Am I in Christen dumb dumb..... ? Perhaps I am a bastard baby left on the side of the road? :)
God, please have mercy on those of us exposed to such hatefulness and arrogance of spirit spoken so seductively in your name.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking about the bath water...and then that poor tossed baby.....if the bath water is the theology we rid ourselves of from TWI....dirty and useless....it is probably good to remember....the baby we think we know.....was left soaking in that. Perhaps we need to get some cleaner water which can help us see the baby or God as He is.
Theology is important because it isn't just what we use to describe the things we know about God..... it is really how we come to know God. If we have a dirty theology...we know a less than pure and true God.
God is too holy for us to sully ourselves in relation to Him by embracing something so dirty as a bit of VP's or TWI's theology. It doesn't sully God....it dirties us. We just get stuck with some caricature of God. There is a revelation of God in scripture that is much different than what we knew in TWI.
What harm is there in asking ourselves something so important as why we think like we do about God? Seems like a pretty important question to me. We don't need to fear the answers or be afraid of changing our minds. Maybe even having to say..."I just don't know". There may even be some things we just don't like.
It is good to remember that we were exposed to some pretty bizarre and hateful things. . . . doctrines which isolated us from those who maybe can help us overcome them. If we call ourselves Christian...we need to at least be able to reach out to others who are Christians...and understand what it is they embrace. It may shock us a bit to realize we are no where near embracing the same God....the same understanding of scripture....or even the same faith! It is good to work these things out for ourselves.
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tonyzamboni
Aside from all of this bickering about whether Johniam said things RIGHT or not (is Johniam a whipping boy?), or whether or not I know JACK (who is Jack? Jack In The Beanstalk?), it is still SAD that some people who left TWI for VERY GOOD REASONS have now tripped out/walked away/given up on being Christians no matter what they experienced in TWI and that is SAD. There are plenty of good Christians to fellowship with who were never in TWI. I dont go to any Way Offshoot and I dont look to find any. I guess this is the only WAY OFFSHOOT I have been to. Haha! But anyway God is still God and Jesus is still the Savior for all Mankind. And the good news for those who have walked away from God and His Word(and I DONT mean walking away from TWI and it's doctrine. Man, some here keep thinking I mean that as Christianity and I dont), is that Once Saved Always Saved! Oh VP said not to say it that way, BUT, I can and I did! Romans 10:9 IS true and shalt be means shalt be! And so does incorruptible seed mean what it says without any TWI research. So one Day when Christ comes back, some will get a huge surprise when they get gathered together when they thought that it was all a bunch of BALONEY. Haha! And what a DAY that will be for us all! Have a nice day! :-)
PS
can someone tell me how to use the italics and maybe the quotation things in the tool bar? I dont like using capitols like that because it looks stupid like Im yelling because I am not but just want to make an emphasis.
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So_crates
First, highlight what you want italicized or quoted then hit the respective button.
SoCrates
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geisha779
Easy believism, cheap grace, and a very shallow understanding of salvation...TWI were masters at leading people astray. 2 Corinthians 13:5
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lovematters
Hi Tony!
And a belated Welcome!
(I see you’ve already met the official welcoming committee :) )
I sympathize with those who come to a site with its own prayer forum and then get their heads bit off for thinking it’s a Christian site.
For what it’s worth, I’ve been following these forums from the get-go and haven’t evolved ten seconds from PFAL.
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So_crates
I doubt that johniam is the whipping boy.
I do however have reason to believe he's a polarity responder.
Polarity Response is a behavior unfamiliar in name but not in most everyone’s experience. Whatever the issue or opinion, the polarity responder takes the opposite view. Disagreement is automatic. This can include and goes past the devil’s advocate role some people take on in groups. Most polarity responders seem unaware of their behavior and its impact on others.(source)
Polarity responders are the type of people that if you said something, they disagree with you. No matter what you say, they disagree with you. Request they do something and they'll do the opposite.
You could say the sky is blue and they would insist there are shades of green in it. You could tell them water is wet and they would insist in some far off place in Shanghai they've figure out how to make it dry.
As you can imagine, this makes for many unneccessary conflicts: I mean, I know few people who would defend a rapist (Saint Vic) saying "Well, he did do some good." Or who would categorize mental abuse as telling people to get their act together (Colon cleanse. Cookies. Accident. Aftermath). In all likelihood, both responses are polarity reponses.
Polarity response is neither bad nor good, its just the way a potion of the population's brains are wired.
SoCrates
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T-Bone
don't know about that - but here's the words to the Allman Brothers' "Whipping Post":
I've been run down
I've been lied to
And I don't know why ... I let that mean woman make me a fool
She took all my money ... wrecked my new car
Now she's with one of my good time buddies ... they're drinkin' in some cross town bar
Sometimes I feel
Sometimes I feel ... like I've been tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Good Lord I feel like I'm dyin'
My friends tell me ... that I've been such a fool
And I have to stand by and take it baby ... all for lovin' you
I drown myself in sorrow ... as I look at what you've done
But nothin' seems to change ... the bad times stay the same ... and I can't run
Sometimes I feel
Sometimes I feel ... like I've been tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Good Lord I feel like I'm dyin'
Sometimes I feel
Sometimes I feel ... like I've been tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Tied to the whippin' post
Good Lord I feel like I'm dyin'
~ ~
man, i love that tune - we'd play that in the first band i played with....we'd jam for hours.....till i thought my fingers would fall off - it was like my bass was a whipping post....
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waysider
I don't find it especially "sad" that some people longer consider themselves Christians. It simply is what it is. It will only make you "sad" if you believe that Christianity is the only valid belief system worth following. And, if that is the case for you, that's fine, as long as you don't use that belief to judge and rate others. That would be elitist. Some people, however, have found that other belief systems, or combinations of belief systems, work better for them. You have to go with what works for you, not the next guy. I suppose,though, a lot of it eventually comes down to the issue of eternal life. Not everyone views that as the single most important aspect of their belief system. For example, there is no eternal life aspect to Judaism. Does that make it a bad belief system to follow? Only if eternal life is the key element one is seeking. Even then, there are other belief systems besides Christianity that focus on the afterlife.
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johniam
Well, good. I've progressed from a wierwille apologist to a whipping boy to a polarity responder. That's encouraging. However, I still prefer son of God.
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geisha779
I see, so you are so sure of what you believe, that it is the right way......that you can actually tell other people HOW they can judge according to their belief system? That is not elitist? You are now pronouncing right or wrong according to what you believe. Wow....the irony. If someone believes the bible is true and Christ is the only way....of COURSE they are going to judge by that belief.....it is their center of reference!!
You have a center of reference and that is fine, there are many of them. It is fine as long as you don't tell others how to judge according to what they believe. When you do that, you set yourself up as the arbiter of truth. It is elitist.
No one says you have to like how others think.....but, you sure don't need to tell them HOW they can think and what is acceptable according to what you believe. Isn't that what you have the problem with?
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tonyzamboni
First, thatnkyou Word Wolf and Socrates for helping me with posting. Now I will try a quote:
Um well, the wrong one to follow anyways.Lets see. Eternal life through Jesus or you just die and go into a black hole. Which would you rather have? Thats a No Brainer to me.
And Geisha that was a pretty smart answer there. I was gong to respond to it but you said it better than I had even thought of it. And Johniam you sound like a good brother but people here some of them not all of them seem to get after you for some reason. And I want you all to know that I see that this isn't a Christian sight. I guess I expected it to be because we were all in TWI at one time trying to be Christians. So I respect your decision to disagree on beliefs. I still have an opinion about it though.
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So_crates
I've accepted the fact that I'm a mortal creature, so the prospect of eternal death isn't that frightening for me. If I'm dead forever, so what? I'll never know it.
Besides, what guarantee can you offer me of eternal life? You can't. It can't be proven one way or the other. Last I checked, nobody's returned from the dead, to verify or refute an afterlife. Further, according to some religious doctrines, its possible to live a totally pious life and still "go into a blackhole."
However, that may be the source of anger directed toward Saint Vic: I had only one shot to get done what I wanted to get done during this lifetime. Now, thanks to Saint Vic and his demented circus with its fleabitten acts and moth-eaten tents--not to mention rickety rides that go nowhere--that may never happen.
SoCrates
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Bolshevik
If eternal life turns out to $uck foot . . . well no brainer . . . black hole.
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