quote: The basis of all this hysteria is the New Madrid fault, running near St. Louis. They've been predicting an earthquake along it since the early 90s.
No talk of this to speak of here in STL. Most folks are concerned about flooding here and there. Wouldn't want to be up in the arch if that did happen though.
One advantage to a community that's all in one place wearing matching tin foil caps and reading their bibles is that at least you know where they are.<br><br>
Didn't say that. I was just thinking having that much food on hand would be like painting a target on your house.
Also, do you think whoever will make a run for that food will be doing it alone?
Now money is the commodity that decides wealth. Should a cultural disruption occur, food will decide wealth. You'll see warehouses of food with armed guards posted around them protecting one individuals "wealth."
I have a 2 week supply of food and water for 4, and it uses very little space, no one would even see anything out of the ordinary if they walked through my garage or house. Well, the garage looks like a small tornado already went throught but other than that....most of the emergency supply stuff is part of our camping stuff, which is all packed in a few crates. Not that much space usage really.
A year's a lot - too much unless you have the space, I agree. and as noted, a lot of it will go bad or stale out within the yea anyway.
I could go to a 30 day and it would still be minimal.
I have a 2 week supply of food and water for 4, and it uses very little space, no one would even see anything out of the ordinary if they walked through my garage or house. Well, the garage looks like a small tornado already went throught but other than that....most of the emergency supply stuff is part of our camping stuff, which is all packed in a few crates. Not that much space usage really.
A year's a lot - too much unless you have the space, I agree. and as noted, a lot of it will go bad or stale out within the yea anyway.
I could go to a 30 day and it would still be minimal.
Okay, you have a major cultural disruption. The authorities are helpless.
Do you think a gang or any group of people are going to quietly stay to themselves and starve? How much more when you add guns into the equasion?
How would they know? Well one way is gangs will go from house to house ransacking them for anything that will help them to survive.
Read about what happened during Katrina to get a better understanding of what would happen if there was some typr of widespread cultural disruption.
I've worked in the insurance industry for the last 20 years or so and have gotten some insight into every major (and many minor) CAT's that have occured in the U.S. over that time frame including Katrina. There's a 1,000 plus stories with that one that have never been told and likely will never be but it did reveal a lot regards our overall ability to respond, especially when it comes to risk anyalysis.
You're describing total failure of systems - Kartina's a good example but there's 100's of smaller ones in every state every day where a significant number of normal systems go down, fail or aren't available to the extent that human's are at risk.
Gangs of ransacking armed citizens - in that scenario your risk exposure doesn't go up because you have a freezer of steak and hamburger in the gararge or a lot of extra water bottles around that no on can see from the street. Houses would be ransacked either for desctructive puproses or to get stuff - whether there's occupants and supplies or not.
Basically that's a different kind of risk and should be anylyzed and planned for differently than say, having enough food or water to live on for a month or so.
Gangs of ransacking armed citizens therefore don't factor into food and water preparation within an average household, in other words you shouldn't not do one because of the other. Not to say that's not a problem to prepare for - it could be.
I guess if you had a sign up on your house that said "We have food but only enough for us so leave us alone", you might be asking for trouble.
imho, the financial earthquake/meltdown/tsunami heading our way is a more immediate threat than the others.
and while many older folks are closer to leaving anyway, and waxing apathetic...the youth are not, and they could use some help with the future before you go.
and stockpiling essentials is not as good as knowing how to make/gather them.
so maybe we should start memorizing all the rules from Zombieland now......rule # 32: enjoy the little things......note to self: start hoarding Twinkies.
Hey, I'm not for hoarding! I've been stuck in the box too long, you're not hoarding me into another!
(Hey, but I wouldn't mind spending a little time with you and Tonto.)
and stockpiling essentials is not as good as knowing how to make/gather them.
I have all my fishing spots picked out that few people know about, most of them I can walk to. :)
I'd still be more concerned about a bunch of extremists in my town than I would be about a 'what if' disaster scenario, but Im not a city dweller-- I live in a very small town, a good community in the middle of nowhere where everyone knows everyone and is also able to produce a lot of its own food and essentials. The town and county have pretty good disaster response mechanisms already in place that takes alot of variables and scenarios into consideration.
Worse case scenario would be if thousands of city dwellers showed up ---that would stress the resources, mostly the hospitals--- but---they'd have to find us first
Hey, I'm not for hoarding! I've been stuck in the box too long, you're not hoarding me into another!
(Hey, but I wouldn't mind spending a little time with you and Tonto.)
Are you a fundamentalist or something - you interpreted my post literally ! See class, the integrity of T-Bone is always at steak.
but hey, you're welcome here anytime Twinky - you know that - we'd love to have you visit.......just make sure you bring your own share of MREs, drinking water, ammo and of course, Twinkies - as in the snack NOT clones.
some of these posts got me thinking about Stephen King's novel "The Stand" - it's a post-apocalyptic story about the breakdown of society. The survivors of a biological weapon accidentally unleashed gravitate toward one of two camps - good or evil. I enjoyed the book much more than the TV miniseries - although they did a pretty good job of it.....anyway, i've never been in the military nor experienced catastrophic destruction and so not sure how i'd react in a life and death situation. my take on human nature is that neighbors [whether in the city or out in the country] will tend to band together out of necessity in a worst case scenario - whether for support, self-protection or what have you - since we are social creatures and obviously there's strength in numbers.
Mstar got me thinking about how a worst case scenario might play out - in our end-of-the-world discussion. i do believe folks in rural areas and very small towns will fare a lot better than city dwellers - just because city life infrastructure is so interdependent. resources, food, supplies, goods, many services, energy/fuels, etc. are piped in, shipped in, brought in - folks get so use to this catered lifestyle - i know it's citified me.
you just kinda forget what it's like to fend for yourself ....to be self-reliant.....yeah, i'm a technician and pride myself on being able to figure out how something works or fix something if given enough time and have access to tools....power tools mostly and probably a laptop or two for running diagnostics and reprogramming....and shoot, tech support is only a phone call or website away.
and i think as a society America tends to be wasteful. i once worked with a tech who grew up in Mexico. i was always amazed at how he'd fix something with parts cannibalized from some old piece of equipment we had sitting in the corner gathering dust. i even told him that as a compliment - he said where he came from they did not have the luxury of ordering a whole new system or could even afford to buy a replacement part - so most folks he knew just learned how to make do with what they had.
some of these posts got me thinking about Stephen King's novel "The Stand" - it's a post-apocalyptic story about the breakdown of society. The survivors of a biological weapon accidentally unleashed gravitate toward one of two camps - good or evil. I enjoyed the book much more than the TV miniseries - although they did a pretty good job of it.....anyway, i've never been in the military nor experienced catastrophic destruction and so not sure how i'd react in a life and death situation. my take on human nature is that neighbors [whether in the city or out in the country] will tend to band together out of necessity in a worst case scenario - whether for support, self-protection or what have you - since we are social creatures and obviously there's strength in numbers.
I would agree with you, T-bone, were this a decade or two ago.
Thanks to the government's divide and conquer strategy, should a disaster scenerio play out we'd have quite a few hurtles to overcome. We've become too individual, we forgot we're members of a society.
During civilized times, its hard enough to get people to obey simple social rules. I lived in Orlando for 12 years: there was no such thing as a line policy down there--everybody cut and went directly to the counter; the lifeboat mentality (every man for himself) ruled the day everyday; and God forbid you have something someone else wanted. they'd either steal it or take it from you at gunpoint.
Again, look at New Orleans during Katrina. Gangs took over and ruled the superdome. Anybody who dissented was taken into the nosebleed section and capped in the back of their head for their trouble.
Used to be, when you went on vacation you asked your neighbors to watch your house. Anymore, if your gone its probably your neighbors that robbed your house.
Used to be, when you went on vacation you asked your neighbors to watch your house. Anymore, if your gone its probably your neighbors that robbed your house.
It depends on the community where you live, I just went on a work trip for a few weeks and left my doors unlocked. I didnt think twice about it.
My former girlfriend sold her house after 25 years and had to have a locksmith come and put a lock on the doors just so she could give the new owner a key--She never had a lock on the door for 25 years.
We've become too individual, we forgot we're members of a society.
Not everywhere, but in too many places thats true. I mustve moved literally hundreds of times over 20-25 years before I finally found a place and settled to the place where I felt comfortable and at home, where people actually seemed respectful, concerned and were willing to work together.
Community takes real work, if individuals arent willing to put in the effort and get involved to make it work they shouldnt be all that surprised if it gets overrun with big problems from time to time.
It depends on the community where you live, I just went on a work trip for a few weeks and left my doors unlocked. I didnt think twice about it.
My former girlfriend sold her house after 25 years and had to have a locksmith come and put a lock on the doors just so she could give the new owner a key--She never had a lock on the door for 25 years.
Me too, I can't even find the keys to our doors! We locked them the other day by mistake, and had to crawl in a window. No one locks their doors around here. Probably we should, but, if someone wants in...it is just a broken window away.
Reading this thread I realized that I probably have a month's worth of food in my cabinets anyway. I still shop for a large crowd and there are only the two of us now. My kids treat our house like a super market so it usually goes. Americans shop differently than many other people. We have larger refrigerators...bigger kitchens...eat more!!
My brother-in-law was just here, he and his family travel the globe so much they need inserts for their passports. He goes to some pretty rough places, like the Sudan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Haiti. He spends time in refugee camps...and when asked what it is like, he always says that people every where he goes are basically good.
I remember reading a testimony from a man who came here from the Sudan. He said in many ways it was more difficult here to trust God for what he needed. Relationship with God was different. Everything is at our finger tips. He said each day in the camp he would have to trust God for his families food. They never went hungry.
Storing food seems a bit alarmist to me...but, I usually have so much in the house....it is enough to last. Water is another issue though...we have a well and when the power goes out...we got zip. That I store...to flush the toilet!
I remember reading this testimony from a man who came here from the Sudan. He said in many ways it was more difficult here to trust God for what he needed. Everything is at our finger tips. He said each day in the camp he would have to trust God for his families food. They never went hungry.
I always wonder about these testimonies.
Not that I'm doubting what your saying Geisha, just that my experience is different.
I've written before about the time I had to decide between ABS and dinner one weekend. I figured I'd be getting another check from a temp service I worked at so, ABS won. I starved over the weekend. And I would have continued starviung through the week had I not gone to the temp service and mention Division of Hour and Wages a few times to get the money they owed me.
It seems they sent my check to an address I lived at five years before, and whoever lived at that address cashed the check and took the money.
I couldn't help thinking about the guy who set his table having faith the food would be there and according to him it always came.
Here I was trusting God with my firstfruits and a glitch occured somewhere.
Oddly, nobody knows where, not my twig leader, not my branch leader, not corps people. Yes, I asked them all.
He spends time in refugee camps...and when asked what it is like, he always says that people every where he goes are basically good.
I dont travel to the Sudan or Afghanistan but that has been my general experience...one out of a hundred might be a creep or potentially dangerous but its not enough to build my world around.
My father grew up during the depression and had what most of what we would consider to be less than nothing, yet somehow he and his family did pretty good.
Im not a big believer in listening to the prophets of doom. I have just enough very real problems to tackle every day without manufacturing hypothetical ones.
There has ALWAYS been dark side prophets of doom. They are rarely if ever right and somehow the human race has managed to always survive.
Even on the off chance they are right Im fine with it and ready, and certainly not going to lose any sleep over it.
Not that I'm doubting what your saying Geisha, just that my experience is different.
I've written before about the time I had to decide between ABS and dinner one weekend. I figured I'd be getting another check from a temp service I worked at so, ABS won. I starved over the weekend. And I would have continued starviung through the week had I not gone to the temp service and mention Division of Hour and Wages a few times to get the money they owed me.
It seems they sent my check to an address I lived at five years before, and whoever lived at that address cashed the check and took the money.
I couldn't help thinking about the guy who set his table having faith the food would be there and according to him it always came.
Here I was trusting God with my firstfruits and a glitch occured somewhere.
Oddly, nobody knows where, not my twig leader, not my branch leader, not corps people. Yes, I asked them all.
SoCrates
I too went without in TWI and actually went hungry a few times. I hear you. I don't really remember the details of the testimony or I could comment more...but, I don't think it was an abundance of great healthy food and he did have to go and find it. I think the point was...he ate every day. :) Not really abundant living by TWI standards. It is pretty tough living in a refugee camp, but, it can be tough to have faith when we have everything so easily available to us. That was the point I think. If that makes sense? Depends on what we consider enough I guess.
Food doesn't seem like such a big thing to ask!
Just to add: I think sometimes in TWI, according to what we were led to believe, paying off God meant we had protection...He owed us. We ABS...so where was our stuff...God won't spit in our direction...remember? Well, maybe that differs from faith in a loving God who does provide our basic needs. The bottom line is that you and I did survive and live to eat another day...I don't really think God failed us.
It depends on the community where you live, I just went on a work trip for a few weeks and left my doors unlocked. I didnt think twice about it.
I used to live in a small town near the Texas coast. When Hurricane Rita headed our way, my wife adn I packed up our cars with some clothes, family mementoes, and the dogs, and headed out to the Hill Country early in the morning. We came back a few days later. A day or two after that, a Constable came to the house and asked my wife if everything was okay. She said, "Sure. Why?" "Well Ma'am, the next time you evacuate, please close your garage -- oh, and lock your back door." :lol: The constables had locked up for us!
Note: I always parked on the driveway, facing the street. My wife usually parked in the garage, facing the house, but this time had her SUV turned around for easier loading. Neither of us looked in the rearview mirror before heading off!
I would agree with you, T-bone, were this a decade or two ago.
Thanks to the government's divide and conquer strategy, should a disaster scenerio play out we'd have quite a few hurtles to overcome. We've become too individual, we forgot we're members of a society.
During civilized times, its hard enough to get people to obey simple social rules. I lived in Orlando for 12 years: there was no such thing as a line policy down there--everybody cut and went directly to the counter; the lifeboat mentality (every man for himself) ruled the day everyday; and God forbid you have something someone else wanted. they'd either steal it or take it from you at gunpoint.
Again, look at New Orleans during Katrina. Gangs took over and ruled the superdome. Anybody who dissented was taken into the nosebleed section and capped in the back of their head for their trouble.
Used to be, when you went on vacation you asked your neighbors to watch your house. Anymore, if your gone its probably your neighbors that robbed your house.
SoCrates
yeah - i do see your point and get where you're coming from - and i have no problem with your conclusions - and would tend to agree with you if the scope of our discussion was limited to a localized disaster.....the thinking behind my post was much broader in scope - a worldwide disaster....imho, folks frame of mind in both scenarios might be quite different in some respects - which would affect their decision-making. i imagine a lot of folks in New Orleans were waiting for the government to send in help - they kept waiting and waiting....
if someone is stuck by the side of the road of a busy highway - they have their hood up - they usually assume someone will come by to help - or call the police , wrecker or someone on their cell....they may not have the tools, know how or ambition to fix it themselves.
but what if they were stuck out on a remote trail in the middle of nowhere - no phone and no one knew they were there [didn't tell anyone where they were going]. their frame of mind might be different - like "i'm it. no one is going to rescue me. it's sink or swim. i'm on my own." that's what i was thinking in my post - you never know how one might react in a situation like that.
in an end-of-the-world scenario - gone are the services and support that people take for granted....maybe no police, no military, no doctors, no FEMA, no governor or president to decare a state of emergency and calls in the calvary....nothing.....and so it may not dawn on folks right away - but at some point most folks will realize they're on their own.....never know how someone may react.....like the movie based on the true story of the guy who cuts off his own arm to survive....i remember seeing a thing on TV about a doctor in the arctic - antarctic - somewhere like that - she had to do surgery on herself.
~~
so i'm not criticizing the good citizens of New Orleans or justifying the bad guys in any way - if i was in that situation don't know if i'd roll over and cower before the bad guys or what i'd do really....i think about other situations sometimes - and i talk about stuff like this with folks at work regarding worst case scenarios.....i own a few guns and love to target shoot and hunt.....i can not even imagine me taking another person's life though.....don't think i could be a policeman or a soldier for that matter.......but i could see myself defending my family if some crazy dude come crashing through our front door wielding a knife and threatening to hurt my family. i don't think i'd have a second thought - i'd blow the dude away with several rounds of .40 caliber jacketed hollow points to the head.....
"Storing food seems a bit alarmist to me...but, I usually have so much in the house....it is enough to last. Water is another issue though...we have a well and when the power goes out...we got zip. That I store...to flush the toilet! "
That's the beauty of simple catastrophe planning geish - most of what you'd need you probably own right now. Add an organizational plan, basically a list of what's where, maybe some reshelving or boxing, a few extras like batteries, etc. and you're there. It's really just a short thinking exercise.
Water - if you have a water heater, 40-60 gallon, you already have that in storage.
Food is not a big deal - canned and bagged stuff, we don't have anything we've bought tha'ts "survival" food. Couple times a year we go through the tuna, canned chicken, applesauce, etc. etc. and add back in what's out of date. There's probably some out of date stuff floating around in the back of our cabinets right now - but we'd eat it, it's not like it's dated 20 years old.
Your BBQ, propane, etc. Camping lanterns, rechargeable flashlights, radio, the hand crankers.
I'm not in Survivor Mode - but the kinds of normal disruption planning + camping stores = most of what we'd want and need.
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johniam
quote: The basis of all this hysteria is the New Madrid fault, running near St. Louis. They've been predicting an earthquake along it since the early 90s.
No talk of this to speak of here in STL. Most folks are concerned about flooding here and there. Wouldn't want to be up in the arch if that did happen though.
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mstar1
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socks
One advantage to a community that's all in one place wearing matching tin foil caps and reading their bibles is that at least you know where they are.<br><br>
Steely Dan had the right idea. <br>
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GeorgeStGeorge
What makes you think the Mormons don't have guns?
George
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So_crates
Didn't say that. I was just thinking having that much food on hand would be like painting a target on your house.
Also, do you think whoever will make a run for that food will be doing it alone?
Now money is the commodity that decides wealth. Should a cultural disruption occur, food will decide wealth. You'll see warehouses of food with armed guards posted around them protecting one individuals "wealth."
SoCrates
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socks
How would anyone know?
I have a 2 week supply of food and water for 4, and it uses very little space, no one would even see anything out of the ordinary if they walked through my garage or house. Well, the garage looks like a small tornado already went throught but other than that....most of the emergency supply stuff is part of our camping stuff, which is all packed in a few crates. Not that much space usage really.
A year's a lot - too much unless you have the space, I agree. and as noted, a lot of it will go bad or stale out within the yea anyway.
I could go to a 30 day and it would still be minimal.
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So_crates
Okay, you have a major cultural disruption. The authorities are helpless.
Do you think a gang or any group of people are going to quietly stay to themselves and starve? How much more when you add guns into the equasion?
How would they know? Well one way is gangs will go from house to house ransacking them for anything that will help them to survive.
Read about what happened during Katrina to get a better understanding of what would happen if there was some typr of widespread cultural disruption.
SoCrates
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socks
Good points, So.
I've worked in the insurance industry for the last 20 years or so and have gotten some insight into every major (and many minor) CAT's that have occured in the U.S. over that time frame including Katrina. There's a 1,000 plus stories with that one that have never been told and likely will never be but it did reveal a lot regards our overall ability to respond, especially when it comes to risk anyalysis.
You're describing total failure of systems - Kartina's a good example but there's 100's of smaller ones in every state every day where a significant number of normal systems go down, fail or aren't available to the extent that human's are at risk.
Gangs of ransacking armed citizens - in that scenario your risk exposure doesn't go up because you have a freezer of steak and hamburger in the gararge or a lot of extra water bottles around that no on can see from the street. Houses would be ransacked either for desctructive puproses or to get stuff - whether there's occupants and supplies or not.
Basically that's a different kind of risk and should be anylyzed and planned for differently than say, having enough food or water to live on for a month or so.
Gangs of ransacking armed citizens therefore don't factor into food and water preparation within an average household, in other words you shouldn't not do one because of the other. Not to say that's not a problem to prepare for - it could be.
I guess if you had a sign up on your house that said "We have food but only enough for us so leave us alone", you might be asking for trouble.
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sirguessalot
imho, the financial earthquake/meltdown/tsunami heading our way is a more immediate threat than the others.
and while many older folks are closer to leaving anyway, and waxing apathetic...the youth are not, and they could use some help with the future before you go.
and stockpiling essentials is not as good as knowing how to make/gather them.
close-knit neighborhoods can keep gangs at bay.
the government is not your friend.
welcome to 3rd world america.
good luck
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So_crates
That's one of the reasons I left Florida.
I could see things around me weren't heading for a good place. You certainly don't want to be in large city when everything tanks.
Too many people in Florida have a lifeboat mentality now. If a depression hit Florida, people would be capping their neighbors for a loaf of bread.
So, I moved back up north into the little town my parents moved to to escape Cleveland.
Little did I know how much it grew.
SoCrates
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Twinky
(Hey, but I wouldn't mind spending a little time with you and Tonto.)
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mstar1
I have all my fishing spots picked out that few people know about, most of them I can walk to. :)
I'd still be more concerned about a bunch of extremists in my town than I would be about a 'what if' disaster scenario, but Im not a city dweller-- I live in a very small town, a good community in the middle of nowhere where everyone knows everyone and is also able to produce a lot of its own food and essentials. The town and county have pretty good disaster response mechanisms already in place that takes alot of variables and scenarios into consideration.
Worse case scenario would be if thousands of city dwellers showed up ---that would stress the resources, mostly the hospitals--- but---they'd have to find us first
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T-Bone
Are you a fundamentalist or something - you interpreted my post literally ! See class, the integrity of T-Bone is always at steak.
but hey, you're welcome here anytime Twinky - you know that - we'd love to have you visit.......just make sure you bring your own share of MREs, drinking water, ammo and of course, Twinkies - as in the snack NOT clones.
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excathedra
let it come quickly please :)
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T-Bone
some of these posts got me thinking about Stephen King's novel "The Stand" - it's a post-apocalyptic story about the breakdown of society. The survivors of a biological weapon accidentally unleashed gravitate toward one of two camps - good or evil. I enjoyed the book much more than the TV miniseries - although they did a pretty good job of it.....anyway, i've never been in the military nor experienced catastrophic destruction and so not sure how i'd react in a life and death situation. my take on human nature is that neighbors [whether in the city or out in the country] will tend to band together out of necessity in a worst case scenario - whether for support, self-protection or what have you - since we are social creatures and obviously there's strength in numbers.
Mstar got me thinking about how a worst case scenario might play out - in our end-of-the-world discussion. i do believe folks in rural areas and very small towns will fare a lot better than city dwellers - just because city life infrastructure is so interdependent. resources, food, supplies, goods, many services, energy/fuels, etc. are piped in, shipped in, brought in - folks get so use to this catered lifestyle - i know it's citified me.
you just kinda forget what it's like to fend for yourself ....to be self-reliant.....yeah, i'm a technician and pride myself on being able to figure out how something works or fix something if given enough time and have access to tools....power tools mostly and probably a laptop or two for running diagnostics and reprogramming....and shoot, tech support is only a phone call or website away.
and i think as a society America tends to be wasteful. i once worked with a tech who grew up in Mexico. i was always amazed at how he'd fix something with parts cannibalized from some old piece of equipment we had sitting in the corner gathering dust. i even told him that as a compliment - he said where he came from they did not have the luxury of ordering a whole new system or could even afford to buy a replacement part - so most folks he knew just learned how to make do with what they had.
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So_crates
I would agree with you, T-bone, were this a decade or two ago.
Thanks to the government's divide and conquer strategy, should a disaster scenerio play out we'd have quite a few hurtles to overcome. We've become too individual, we forgot we're members of a society.
During civilized times, its hard enough to get people to obey simple social rules. I lived in Orlando for 12 years: there was no such thing as a line policy down there--everybody cut and went directly to the counter; the lifeboat mentality (every man for himself) ruled the day everyday; and God forbid you have something someone else wanted. they'd either steal it or take it from you at gunpoint.
Again, look at New Orleans during Katrina. Gangs took over and ruled the superdome. Anybody who dissented was taken into the nosebleed section and capped in the back of their head for their trouble.
Used to be, when you went on vacation you asked your neighbors to watch your house. Anymore, if your gone its probably your neighbors that robbed your house.
SoCrates
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mstar1
It depends on the community where you live, I just went on a work trip for a few weeks and left my doors unlocked. I didnt think twice about it.
My former girlfriend sold her house after 25 years and had to have a locksmith come and put a lock on the doors just so she could give the new owner a key--She never had a lock on the door for 25 years.
Not everywhere, but in too many places thats true. I mustve moved literally hundreds of times over 20-25 years before I finally found a place and settled to the place where I felt comfortable and at home, where people actually seemed respectful, concerned and were willing to work together.
Community takes real work, if individuals arent willing to put in the effort and get involved to make it work they shouldnt be all that surprised if it gets overrun with big problems from time to time.
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geisha779
Me too, I can't even find the keys to our doors! We locked them the other day by mistake, and had to crawl in a window. No one locks their doors around here. Probably we should, but, if someone wants in...it is just a broken window away.
Reading this thread I realized that I probably have a month's worth of food in my cabinets anyway. I still shop for a large crowd and there are only the two of us now. My kids treat our house like a super market so it usually goes. Americans shop differently than many other people. We have larger refrigerators...bigger kitchens...eat more!!
My brother-in-law was just here, he and his family travel the globe so much they need inserts for their passports. He goes to some pretty rough places, like the Sudan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Haiti. He spends time in refugee camps...and when asked what it is like, he always says that people every where he goes are basically good.
I remember reading a testimony from a man who came here from the Sudan. He said in many ways it was more difficult here to trust God for what he needed. Relationship with God was different. Everything is at our finger tips. He said each day in the camp he would have to trust God for his families food. They never went hungry.
Storing food seems a bit alarmist to me...but, I usually have so much in the house....it is enough to last. Water is another issue though...we have a well and when the power goes out...we got zip. That I store...to flush the toilet!
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So_crates
I always wonder about these testimonies.
Not that I'm doubting what your saying Geisha, just that my experience is different.
I've written before about the time I had to decide between ABS and dinner one weekend. I figured I'd be getting another check from a temp service I worked at so, ABS won. I starved over the weekend. And I would have continued starviung through the week had I not gone to the temp service and mention Division of Hour and Wages a few times to get the money they owed me.
It seems they sent my check to an address I lived at five years before, and whoever lived at that address cashed the check and took the money.
I couldn't help thinking about the guy who set his table having faith the food would be there and according to him it always came.
Here I was trusting God with my firstfruits and a glitch occured somewhere.
Oddly, nobody knows where, not my twig leader, not my branch leader, not corps people. Yes, I asked them all.
SoCrates
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mstar1
I dont travel to the Sudan or Afghanistan but that has been my general experience...one out of a hundred might be a creep or potentially dangerous but its not enough to build my world around.
My father grew up during the depression and had what most of what we would consider to be less than nothing, yet somehow he and his family did pretty good.
Im not a big believer in listening to the prophets of doom. I have just enough very real problems to tackle every day without manufacturing hypothetical ones.
There has ALWAYS been dark side prophets of doom. They are rarely if ever right and somehow the human race has managed to always survive.
Even on the off chance they are right Im fine with it and ready, and certainly not going to lose any sleep over it.
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geisha779
I too went without in TWI and actually went hungry a few times. I hear you. I don't really remember the details of the testimony or I could comment more...but, I don't think it was an abundance of great healthy food and he did have to go and find it. I think the point was...he ate every day. :) Not really abundant living by TWI standards. It is pretty tough living in a refugee camp, but, it can be tough to have faith when we have everything so easily available to us. That was the point I think. If that makes sense? Depends on what we consider enough I guess.
Food doesn't seem like such a big thing to ask!
Just to add: I think sometimes in TWI, according to what we were led to believe, paying off God meant we had protection...He owed us. We ABS...so where was our stuff...God won't spit in our direction...remember? Well, maybe that differs from faith in a loving God who does provide our basic needs. The bottom line is that you and I did survive and live to eat another day...I don't really think God failed us.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I used to live in a small town near the Texas coast. When Hurricane Rita headed our way, my wife adn I packed up our cars with some clothes, family mementoes, and the dogs, and headed out to the Hill Country early in the morning. We came back a few days later. A day or two after that, a Constable came to the house and asked my wife if everything was okay. She said, "Sure. Why?" "Well Ma'am, the next time you evacuate, please close your garage -- oh, and lock your back door." :lol: The constables had locked up for us!
Note: I always parked on the driveway, facing the street. My wife usually parked in the garage, facing the house, but this time had her SUV turned around for easier loading. Neither of us looked in the rearview mirror before heading off!
George
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T-Bone
yeah - i do see your point and get where you're coming from - and i have no problem with your conclusions - and would tend to agree with you if the scope of our discussion was limited to a localized disaster.....the thinking behind my post was much broader in scope - a worldwide disaster....imho, folks frame of mind in both scenarios might be quite different in some respects - which would affect their decision-making. i imagine a lot of folks in New Orleans were waiting for the government to send in help - they kept waiting and waiting....
if someone is stuck by the side of the road of a busy highway - they have their hood up - they usually assume someone will come by to help - or call the police , wrecker or someone on their cell....they may not have the tools, know how or ambition to fix it themselves.
but what if they were stuck out on a remote trail in the middle of nowhere - no phone and no one knew they were there [didn't tell anyone where they were going]. their frame of mind might be different - like "i'm it. no one is going to rescue me. it's sink or swim. i'm on my own." that's what i was thinking in my post - you never know how one might react in a situation like that.
in an end-of-the-world scenario - gone are the services and support that people take for granted....maybe no police, no military, no doctors, no FEMA, no governor or president to decare a state of emergency and calls in the calvary....nothing.....and so it may not dawn on folks right away - but at some point most folks will realize they're on their own.....never know how someone may react.....like the movie based on the true story of the guy who cuts off his own arm to survive....i remember seeing a thing on TV about a doctor in the arctic - antarctic - somewhere like that - she had to do surgery on herself.
~~
so i'm not criticizing the good citizens of New Orleans or justifying the bad guys in any way - if i was in that situation don't know if i'd roll over and cower before the bad guys or what i'd do really....i think about other situations sometimes - and i talk about stuff like this with folks at work regarding worst case scenarios.....i own a few guns and love to target shoot and hunt.....i can not even imagine me taking another person's life though.....don't think i could be a policeman or a soldier for that matter.......but i could see myself defending my family if some crazy dude come crashing through our front door wielding a knife and threatening to hurt my family. i don't think i'd have a second thought - i'd blow the dude away with several rounds of .40 caliber jacketed hollow points to the head.....
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socks
"Storing food seems a bit alarmist to me...but, I usually have so much in the house....it is enough to last. Water is another issue though...we have a well and when the power goes out...we got zip. That I store...to flush the toilet! "
That's the beauty of simple catastrophe planning geish - most of what you'd need you probably own right now. Add an organizational plan, basically a list of what's where, maybe some reshelving or boxing, a few extras like batteries, etc. and you're there. It's really just a short thinking exercise.
Water - if you have a water heater, 40-60 gallon, you already have that in storage.
Food is not a big deal - canned and bagged stuff, we don't have anything we've bought tha'ts "survival" food. Couple times a year we go through the tuna, canned chicken, applesauce, etc. etc. and add back in what's out of date. There's probably some out of date stuff floating around in the back of our cabinets right now - but we'd eat it, it's not like it's dated 20 years old.
Your BBQ, propane, etc. Camping lanterns, rechargeable flashlights, radio, the hand crankers.
I'm not in Survivor Mode - but the kinds of normal disruption planning + camping stores = most of what we'd want and need.
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