vpw, truths, lies, reasons/motives.

[Rocky]

5 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

I had a wife in housekeeping.

Our first year of marriage was marred with arguments about who her "head" was.  

I eventually said it was me . . .  Intending to removed those other corps men from our relationship, at least in her mind.

She at first came to me about arguments with leadership, her heads.  I went higher up the chain.  We were sent in circles as by two cabinet members.

It hadn't dawned on me marriage is not sacred inside of TWI.  Those boundaries were intended to be porous.

That sounds like a first person account. So sorry you had to endure such bullshonta. 

[T-Bone]

17 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Interesting. Craig took that same page out of VPW's playbook when they moved the corps training to Gunnison. He would arrange encounters by having Jaqui H0rn3y (and others) send in specific women to from housekeeping to to take care of Cabin 12 and cater to craig. It was well known that martindale was doing this as I first heard about it when I was in-residence at Gunnsion  from 2001-2003....few years later I read the lawsuit information online and many of the people listed were at camp gunnison. Not only that it explains why the H0rn3ys were reassigned to HQ during that time.

This is part of what TWI did not want on public record or coming to light for the general public.

 

12 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

The Horn#y's were my last HF coordinators.  Kept me close to a number of others.

Had the same issues as with Lom@x and Lind@r.

I could feel myself vibrating at the audacity of J@ckie to pull me aside and try to convince me of victory sharing, knowing truth was being distorted.  Creepy.

Yikes – I remember her being a hard-a$$ when I was at LEAD…she was on staff - getting on me to keep up with the group – I was really challenged having that 80-pound backpack on my little frame. Me and another corps brother would murmur about she’s trying to kill us by exhaustion being overburdened – not kidding – I wondered if one of us would have a heart attack.

 

[Bolshevik]

10 minutes ago, Rocky said:

That sounds like a first person account. So sorry you had to endure such bullshonta. 

I remember now I tried to get to Rivenbark to talk to her.  Walked to her office and was turned away.  Then Rivenbark sent some mousey individual to talk to me . . . When I was asleep (I worked the night shift, everyone knew that) . . . So I tried to reschedule and she just dismissed it all with "he can write me a letter"

[OldSkool]

1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

 

Yikes – I remember her being a hard-a$$ when I was at LEAD…she was on staff - getting on me to keep up with the group – I was really challenged having that 80-pound backpack on my little frame. Me and another corps brother would murmur about she’s trying to kill us by exhaustion being overburdened – not kidding – I wondered if one of us would have a heart attack.

 

They were both hard-@$$es under craiggers...I always thought she was more treacherous than Ed but either way...kinda of a package deal so no use in splitting hairs...lol....Im sure they are much nicer now that they are helping run RnR.

Edited January 8, 2023 by OldSkool

[OldSkool]

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

I remember now I tried to get to Rivenbark to talk to her.  Walked to her office and was turned away.  Then Rivenbark sent some mousey individual to talk to me . . . When I was asleep (I worked the night shift, everyone knew that) . . . So I tried to reschedule and she just dismissed it all with "he can write me a letter"

Rivenbark acted concerned about issues but she pretty much didnt really care unless it affected the way international. Rosalie was the one who lamented all the changes the lawsuit brought about during a cabinet meeting in 2007. She would much rather have people show up and work and goto their homebased storage units until they are needed again. She wanted no disruptions.

Edited January 8, 2023 by OldSkool

[Twinky]

I have heard (here) that Jacqu1 H was an abusee - seems later she turned into an abuser or at least a facilitator.

She was in charge of a group of us sent to Emporia to clean it up, and gather & sort various items prior to being auctioned off.  While she seemed intense at HQ, she was really different at Emporia, more relaxed, more fun to be around. 

Now, I wonder what pressure she was temporarily released from, what spying she didn't have to put up with, in the escape to Emporia.

For myself, I'd not been in rez long and already I was feeling pressure, and that Emporia was somewhat of an escape.

[Twinky]

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

I remember now I tried to get to Rivenbark to talk to her.  Walked to her office and was turned away.  Then Rivenbark sent some mousey individual to talk to me

Rivenbark was more canny than the rest of them.  

At some point LCM had a screamfest at me, and he  told me that my Corps assignments that semester had been to work in the Green Room, but Rivenbark kyboshed that with LCM.   I wasn't "spiritually mature" enough.

Many years later, I met J@nuary B@rnes.  She had been badly abused for months by LCM - in the green room.  She told me what went on there, and said I'd had a narrow escape, because I was the type of female that LCM liked.  

While I (sort of) am thankful to Rivenbark about that, I'm sure it wasn't lack of "spiritual maturity" but the knowledge that as a lawyer I might make a big fuss if LCM assaulted me.  And I'd be a credible, reliable, witness.  She was protecting the ministry, not me.

[Twinky]

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

I had a wife in housekeeping.

Our first year of marriage was marred with arguments about who her "head" was.  

I eventually said it was me . . .  Intending to removed those other corps men from our relationship, at least in her mind.

She at first came to me about arguments with leadership, her heads.  I went higher up the chain.  We were sent in circles as by two cabinet members.

It hadn't dawned on me marriage is not sacred inside of TWI.  Those boundaries were intended to be porous.

I'm sorry this happened, Bolshevik.  Marital boundaries were nothing to TWI.

I was engaged.  My fiance and I got on fine.  Then my assignment was changed and I became subject to my own Corps bro, who, though he'd been an awful and unsuccessful WoW family coordinator, had been assigned to take over my WoW family and the area I and my team had built up.  My fiance was not really assigned any role but we were both subject to my Corps bro, the now area coordinator. 

Fiance listened to Corps bro and did what he said, never anything fiance and I had agreed.  Corps bro listened to country coordinator, who also was happy to interfere (and tried to bed me to boot).  Country coordinator deferred to LCM.

So there were at least four if not five people in my engagement, of which I was by far and away the least important.

Unsurprisingly, it didn't last.  And I was the "disobedient" one who refused to "be subject to my fiance" (and all the rest of them).  They kicked me out, and received him with open arms and loved him up because I'd given him such a difficult time.

Yes, I'm still angry and resentful about it.  

They all seem to have gone on and lived carefree lives, got married, and had (more) kids.

[Bolshevik]

20 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Rivenbark acted concerned about issues but she pretty much didnt really care unless it affected the way international. Rosalie was the one who lamented all the changes the lawsuit brought about during a cabinet meeting in 2007. She would much rather have people show up and work and goto their homebased storage units until they are needed again. She wanted no disruptions.

Rivenbark also made comments letter rather back handed against my wife at the time.  She had a way of being involved without ever being physically present.

 

One of the books, either by Mrs Owen's or Mrs Wierwille I'm not sure, described Rivenbark interacting with VPW.

Rivenbark worked at the head table for food services.  And there would be a tiny spill or something near VPW on the table.  Rivenbark would discreetly clean it up and get back to her station, only to notice, nervously, the mess was back again.  So she cleaned it up again and the matter repeated. 

Rivenbark finally figured out VPW was messing with her.  He was giggling at her frustration.

I think Rivenbark learned something about "leadership" that day.

[Bolshevik]

2 minutes ago, Twinky said:

I'm sorry this happened, Bolshevik.  Marital boundaries were nothing to TWI.

I was engaged.  My fiance and I got on fine.  Then my assignment was changed and I became subject to my own Corps bro, who, though he'd been an awful and unsuccessful WoW family coordinator, had been assigned to take over my WoW family and the area I and my team had built up.  My fiance was not really assigned any role but we were both subject to my Corps bro, the now area coordinator. 

Fiance listened to Corps bro and did what he said, never anything fiance and I had agreed.  Corps bro listened to country coordinator, who also was happy to interfere (and tried to bed me to boot).  Country coordinator deferred to LCM.

So there were at least four if not five people in my engagement, of which I was by far and away the least important.

Unsurprisingly, it didn't last.  And I was the "disobedient" one who refused to "be subject to my fiance" (and all the rest of them).  They kicked me out, and received him with open arms and loved him up because I'd given him such a difficult time.

Yes, I'm still angry and resentful about it.  

They all seem to have gone on and lived carefree lives, got married, and had (more) kids.

I'm sorry Twinky.

Family, or the process of making one, is a political act. (Orwell)

[Twinky]

3 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

I'm sorry Twinky.

Thanks, Bolshevik.

[OldSkool]

55 minutes ago, Twinky said:

I have heard (here) that Jacqu1 H was an abusee

That her and Craig had their rondevous was basically common knowledge around the campfire, so to speak.

[Twinky]

Gross, OS.
Guess that's why she was happy to be at Emporia, away from his sweaty clutches.

[Rocky]

Oh gawd, why did any of us put up with ANY of that crap? And I can't believe I'm the only one who committed similar abuse against spouse and children subsequently.  

[Bolshevik]

2 hours ago, Rocky said:

Oh gawd, why did any of us put up with ANY of that crap? And I can't believe I'm the only one who committed similar abuse against spouse and children subsequently.  

What?

I know I has "instructed" by parents to "not bring an unbeliever into this house".  When I did date outsiders there was intervention.  . . . Plus the internet was on its blind rampage.

My ex wife was also raised to "only marry PFAL" grads.  

So the people guiding and looking out for us were focused on The Class.  And it's natural to want their acceptance.

When we both left TWI, I left and then she did.  Then we each had no idea who the other was anymore.  

There was no value system in place to compete with the absent value system.

 

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

What?

I know I has "instructed" by parents to "not bring an unbeliever into this house".  When I did date outsiders there was intervention.  . . . Plus the internet was on its blind rampage.

My ex wife was also raised to "only marry PFAL" grads.  

So the people guiding and looking out for us were focused on The Class.  And it's natural to want their acceptance.

When we both left TWI, I left and then she did.  Then we each had no idea who the other was anymore.  

There was no value system in place to compete with the absent value system.

 

So sorry anyone (including you) had to cope with any of it. In case it wasn't clear or obvious, when I said "why did any of us put up with ANY of that crap?" I meant any of us who were of the generation where we got involved of our own choice.

[Bolshevik]

5 hours ago, OldSkool said:

That her and Craig had their rondevous was basically common knowledge around the campfire, so to speak.

Was Ed cool with that?  Part of info put out was that wife-swapping was practiced.

[OldSkool]

5 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Was Ed cool with that?  Part of info put out was that wife-swapping was practiced.

I dont know. I found out about all of it from several different way corps staffers at Gunnison who were there when it happened. It was common knowledge at camp gunnison what went on in cabin 12 when martindale was there. Small staff out there and they either were in on it, or werent in on it but knew it was happening. I was so naive that the first time I was told about it I didnt believe it and thought it was a joke. The person who told me laughed and then went into detail about how they would have J@qui send select women in there to clean cabin 12 and such. In my two years at Gunnison I heard the same accounts with very little variation in the details from several folks. Not only that part but that J@qui and Martindale had a long standing thing going was also common knowledge. I cant speak for gunnison, but the indiana campus was ground zero for wife swapping and all kinds of illicit activity. I wouldnt doubt that similar stuff occured at Gunnison, I just think with smaller staff levels there would be more discretion involved. But who knows.

[T-Bone]

1 hour ago, OldSkool said:

I dont know. I found out about all of it from several different way corps staffers at Gunnison who were there when it happened. It was common knowledge at camp gunnison what went on in cabin 12 when martindale was there. Small staff out there and they either were in on it, or werent in on it but knew it was happening. I was so naive that the first time I was told about it I didnt believe it and thought it was a joke. The person who told me laughed and then went into detail about how they would have J@qui send select women in there to clean cabin 12 and such. In my two years at Gunnison I heard the same accounts with very little variation in the details from several folks. Not only that part but that J@qui and Martindale had a long standing thing going was also common knowledge. I cant speak for gunnison, but the indiana campus was ground zero for wife swapping and all kinds of illicit activity. I wouldnt doubt that similar stuff occured at Gunnison, I just think with smaller staff levels there would be more discretion involved. But who knows.

Every time this stuff comes up I cringe and  shudder to think what a dumb-a$$ I was thinking I’m in a very spiritual place …meanwhile the X-rated soap opera played out behind the scenes…I guess there’s a whole other type of awareness if one is into that stuff…the secret life of adultery.

 

and maybe there’s some differences in the men vs women viewpoint- generally speaking - since we’ve been on Grease Spot my wife and I talked about this stuff - she was more aware of some of the hanky panky that went on…but at the time neither one of us realized what a discombobulated phony baloney clusterfvck the way corps program was.

[WordWolf]

Before someone pretends vpw had nothing to do with it, I'm in with....

vpw set the stage for this and vpw planned it all. This was the man who privately told people that God Almighty was OK with ORGIES, and apparently always wanted to attend one since he kept trying to get details of them and hung out where he thought they happened.  

He also set up an elaborate network where he could target women in twi-  he used the "From the Birth to the Corps" papers to find his targets, and was even seen with their paper in his hand when he targeted them.  He set up places remote from his home where he had an office AND A PLACE TO SLEEP.   That's where he had women-whom he'd carefully selected- sent.  Sometimes he drugged them, other times he just plied them with alcohol (lowered inhibitions).  

And if they looked like they were going to spill the beans or tell someone, the women were kicked out of twi and rushed off campus, and put on a slow bus back home. Meanwhile, as soon as they were off-campus, their name was slandered all over campus, and phone calls were made slandering her back home, and she was made, if possible, to feel like a big failure to God Almighty.  Small wonder at least one woman kicked out committed suicide.

This was not "and when women threw themselves at him, he sinned." This was "he set up the places to sin, carefully selected sin's targets,  drugged women to make it easier to sin,  and destroyed their reputations if it looked like they had regrets." 

To paraphrase George Carlin,

it was a sin for vpw to want to rape Maggie Muggins,

it was a sin for vpw to plan to rape Maggie Muggins,

it was a sin for vpw to set up a place to rape Maggie Muggins,

it was a sin for vpw to try to rape Maggie Muggins,

and it was a sin for vpw to rape Maggie Muggins.

 

I brought that up once before. One vpw defender came away with saying "the RCC has a lot of categories of sins"  and never once said "that was a lot of DELIBERATE DECISIONS vpw made in order to rape ONE woman, let alone MANY."

[chockfull]

18 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

I remember now I tried to get to Rivenbark to talk to her.  Walked to her office and was turned away.  Then Rivenbark sent some mousey individual to talk to me . . . When I was asleep (I worked the night shift, everyone knew that) . . . So I tried to reschedule and she just dismissed it all with "he can write me a letter"

Yeah Jesus is probably gonna make that b sit in a corner and write him a letter at the return.

Sorry that happened to you B.  With that and all the interference into your marriage.  

[Twinky]

4 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Every time this stuff comes up I cringe and  shudder to think what a dumb-a$$ I was thinking I’m in a very spiritual place …meanwhile the X-rated soap opera played out behind the scenes…I guess there’s a whole other type of awareness if one is into that stuff…the secret life of adultery.

I never knew any of it either.  Don't look for it, couldn't possibly expect it in a Christian place of work and study, just - naive and innocent.  Thank God for his protection over me at that time.

It makes me feel ill to think of it now.  Jacque... my corps coordinator.  A groomer.  Ugh.

[chockfull]

16 hours ago, Twinky said:

I'm sorry this happened, Bolshevik.  Marital boundaries were nothing to TWI.

I was engaged.  My fiance and I got on fine.  Then my assignment was changed and I became subject to my own Corps bro, who, though he'd been an awful and unsuccessful WoW family coordinator, had been assigned to take over my WoW family and the area I and my team had built up.  My fiance was not really assigned any role but we were both subject to my Corps bro, the now area coordinator. 

Fiance listened to Corps bro and did what he said, never anything fiance and I had agreed.  Corps bro listened to country coordinator, who also was happy to interfere (and tried to bed me to boot).  Country coordinator deferred to LCM.

So there were at least four if not five people in my engagement, of which I was by far and away the least important.

Unsurprisingly, it didn't last.  And I was the "disobedient" one who refused to "be subject to my fiance" (and all the rest of them).  They kicked me out, and received him with open arms and loved him up because I'd given him such a difficult time.

Yes, I'm still angry and resentful about it.  

They all seem to have gone on and lived carefree lives, got married, and had (more) kids.

Sorry that happened to you Twinky.  It was truly his loss, and Christs gain.  You are a fantastic person and deserve the absolute best in life from God.

[chockfull]

1 minute ago, Twinky said:

I never knew any of it either.  Don't look for it, couldn't possibly expect it in a Christian place of work and study, just - naive and innocent.  Thank God for his protection over me at that time.

It makes me feel ill to think of it now.  Jacque... my corps coordinator.  A groomer.  Ugh.

Yeah the pattern there was Craig’s “harem” found others to participate in their play.

I mean the Hugh Hefner jacket he paraded around in after he finished video production of his PLAFT -2 class he probably took literally.

And all those stories inside TWI are just as sick as the accounts coming out now about Hefner.  All happening right under all our noses while they were telling in residence Corps not to “date”.  

I mean OK Hef.  Can’t have 2 meals together but the 3 some in the spare Founders room is OK?  I guess Hef was just missing the polygamy step.  With only one life to live you can only accomplish so much lol.

And this pattern was established by VPW who passed women he perceived to be damaged around to his inner circle of friends like Howard and Don.

 

[Twinky]

10 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Sorry that happened to you Twinky.  It was truly his loss, and Christs gain.  You are a fantastic person and deserve the absolute best in life from God.

Thank you, Chocky.