vpw, truths, lies, reasons/motives.

[waysider]

You could even turn it into a drinking game: everytime Saint Vic's and a sociopath's traits match, take a drink.

SoCrates

I have to work in the morning!

[So_crates]

I have to work in the morning!

Wh-wh-what w-were you s-saying (hic)? Wh-wh-where's the Dr-dr-drambuie? (hic)

SoCrates

[waysider]

Well, my boss would frown on my showing up hung over, which I would surely be if I played that game.

[So_crates]

Well, my boss would frown on my showing up hung over, which I would surely be if I played that game.

I read that page and I was amazed by how many of the sociopathic traits Saint Vic had.

SoCrates

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/29/2011 at 8:00 PM, waysider said:

Yeah.

VPW was the original "hybrid"

He sure got a lot of mileage out of that "vehicle" he created.

Way, great post!!  Thanks for a good laugh!

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/31/2011 at 9:46 AM, Ham said:

I think the lies and falsehood caught up with him..

I think at the end he died a helpless, disease ridden, bitter, angry man..

grasping at straws to the end.

One whopper after another.. "I gave my EYE for da *ministry*.."

Ham, I think you are right; he died an angry, bitter man.  He made his bed, and then he died in it.  I often wonder how his wife, and kids put up with him; I don't think I could have dealt with him if he had been a member of my family.  I had no sympathy for him, but I can't imagine the pain that he might have caused, his nearest, and dearest.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/31/2011 at 7:24 PM, So_crates said:

(nods) And Saint Vic had a lot of sociopathic traits: lack of empathy for his victims being a big one.

See if this sounds at all like Saint Vic:

Profile of the Sociopath

This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning

They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self

Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying

Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions

When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation

Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability

Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them

Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them

Authoritarian

Secretive

Paranoid

Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired

Conventional appearance

Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)

Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life

Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)

Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim

Incapable of real human attachment to another

Unable to feel remorse or guilt

Extreme narcissism and grandiose

May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

(source)

SoCrates

Sounds like VPW, or Hitler.

[Bolshevik]

3 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Ham, I think you are right; he died an angry, bitter man.  He made his bed, and then he died in it.  I often wonder how his wife, and kids put up with him; I don't think I could have dealt with him if he had been a member of my family.  I had no sympathy for him, but I can't imagine the pain that he might have caused, his nearest, and dearest.

If you read the POOP paper it strongly implies he wanted them as adversaries and played the victim about it.  So, I guess we should feel bad for him, from a spiritual perspective.

 

P.S.  POOP spelled backwards is POOP.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Bolshevik
POOP

[waysider]

33 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

 

 

P.S.  POOP spelled backwards is POOP.

 

P.S. POOP spelled backwards is constip..........eh, nevermind

[Grace Valerie Claire]

1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

If you read the POOP paper it strongly implies he wanted them as adversaries and played the victim about it.  So, I guess we should feel bad for him, from a spiritual perspective.

 

P.S.  POOP spelled backwards is POOP.

Bol, I read the POOP paper thirty years ago.  What a lot of POOP it was; boo-hoo!  Chris G blamed everyone else for VPW's failures. He didn't give specific, concrete examples of where the BOD had gone wrong.  Instead of helping various individuals, the POOP paper showed how incompetent Chris G was in managing his resources.  IMHO. I thought the POOP paper was a lot of dreck.

[Bolshevik]

40 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

 . . .  Chris G blamed everyone else for VPW's failures. He didn't give specific, concrete examples of where the BOD had gone wrong.  Instead of helping various individuals, the POOP paper showed how incompetent Chris G was in managing his resources. .  . .

LCM had good reason to feel threatened then.  CGs superior example of believing must of been something to behold.  His actions must have really drove LCM to look outside himself and grow spiritually.  See, that's how spiritual competition benefits everyone.

 

[T-Bone]

2 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

If you read the POOP paper it strongly implies he wanted them as adversaries and played the victim about it.  So, I guess we should feel bad for him, from a spiritual perspective.

 

P.S.  POOP spelled backwards is POOP.

 

2 hours ago, waysider said:

P.S. POOP spelled backwards is constip..........eh, nevermind

No wait I think you're on to something - it's like believing in reverse...you have to learn to $h it gears - - errrrr I mean shift gears.

[Bolshevik]

Ha Ha T-Bone!

Think I was trying to remember that earlier

Gear shifting . . . I think leadership used that term when they yelled at someone one second and spoke with a soft loving voice the next . . . Good clean toilet humor there.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

4 hours ago, T-Bone said:

 

No wait I think you're on to something - it's like believing in reverse...you have to learn to $h it gears - - errrrr I mean shift gears.

T-Bone, you and your potty mouth!!  Great post BTW!!  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

3 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Ha Ha T-Bone!

Think I was trying to remember that earlier

Gear shifting . . . I think leadership used that term when they yelled at someone one second and spoke with a soft loving voice the next . . . Good clean toilet humor there.

Yes, it was!!

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

Constipation(sung to Anticipation)

 

[T-Bone]

On 3/29/2011 at 6:29 PM, WordWolf said:

I'm curious.

What leads you to think he honestly didn't understand the difference between truth and lies?

WordWolf, I’m sorry it’s taken me some 6 years to get back to you on that - I’ve been busy  - honestly didn’t see this till now.

I tend to think he may have understood the difference way way back but started in the direction of compromising on things until he was engulfed in a make-believe world.

He may have been so excited to learn the things from BG Leonard or others - and thought of what an enterprising operation it could be - that he may have thought it’s no big deal to say these are my ideas or God showed me this stuff since what really matters is “getting this truth out to my people right away”.....it’s funny to recall this - but I actually remember wierwille teaching on I Timothy  4:2 about the conscience seared with a hot iron - and him saying something along the lines of the first time you do something bad you feel awful - then the next time you do it - it doesn’t feel as bad - eventually your conscience is cauterized - - you feel nothing.

Probably ought to factor in a lust for fame, fortune, power and pleasure that would make it easier (more slippery) to cross the lines of honesty and decency. But who knows I’m just guessing how I would “get there from here” if it was me.

I try not to demonize him as always being so megalomaniac-ish but rather give him the benefit of a doubt. Perhaps he never intended to spin a complex web of deceit that would eventually trap him in a delusional world that he himself created.

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by T-Bone
Needed more time....don’t we all

[Grace Valerie Claire]

41 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

WordWolf, I’m sorry it’s taken me some 6 years to get back to you on that - I’ve been busy  - honestly didn’t see this till now.

I tend to think he may have understood the difference way way back but started in the direction of compromising on things until he was engulfed in a world of delusion that he himself created.

He may have been so excited to learn the things from BG Leonard or others that he may have thought it’s no big deal to say these are my ideas or God showed me this stuff as long  since what really matters is “getting this truth out to my people right away”

Probably ought to factor in a lust for fame fortune and power that would make it easier (more slippery) to cross the lines of honesty and decency. But who knows I’m just guessing how I would “get there from here” if it was me.

I try not to demonize him as always being so megalomaniac-ish but rather give him the benefit of a doubt. Perhaps he never intended to spin a complex web of deceit that would eventually trap him in a delusional world that he himself created.

 

T-Bone, perhaps he didn't intend to create a false world, but perhaps he did.  I honestly don't know what was in his heart, or mind.  Only God knows what his true intentions were.

 

 

 

[T-Bone]

16 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

T-Bone, perhaps he didn't intend to create a false world, but perhaps he did.  I honestly don't know what was in his heart, or mind.  Only God knows what his true intentions were.

 

 

 

That’s for sure Grace

that’s  for sure 

Edited October 16, 2017 by T-Bone

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

On 10/4/2017 at 2:15 PM, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Constipation(sung to Anticipation), it's making me wait

 

 

[DontWorryBeHappy]

Hi all!

imo, one must never lose sight of the debilitating co-morbidities and unconfronted, untreated pathologies which were an integral and dominant part of dictor paul's lifelong devolution into madness. This was never "a good man gone wrong", or a "spiritual 'breaking bad' " story. This was the predictable outworking and acting out behavior of a deeply disturbed individual. 

This was the inevitable progression of a sexually and psychologically abused child of a dysfunctional Prussian immigrant family (read pre-Nazi white, Aryan nationalism), in rural, agrarian Ohio, populated by a major cluster of German immigrants. This is reflected even in the local town names....Minster, New Bremen, St. Mary's, Anna, and others, amongst an equally large population of Scots-Irish Protestant "colonists" in the area. Interesting cultural and historical mix of genomes.

Add to that, an increasing need for self-medication with alcohol in the teen years, and the growing paranoia and demand for approval and attention his malignant narcissism demanded, his mental "clarity" was under self-destructive assault from at least age 14. There were various misguided and/or uniformed attempts at intervention by family members, most notably older sisters Sevilla, and Lydia, and angry, punitive interventions by his guilty father, but dictor's "problems" remained unconfronted and untreated, hence predictable and inevitable from a clinical point of view, but totally hidden and disguised socially and interpersonally. Quite typically solipsistic and sociopathic.

dictor paul was "outta control" in high school already, and as the substance abuse increased so did the erratic, attention-seeking behavior. He eloped with his HS sweetheart. Went through a C- academic career at a WI Evangelical and Reformed denominational college supported by the local New Knoxville congregation, was part of Lindbergh's America First "Anti-War" Movement, took his first pastorate in Payne, OH, had his first extra-marital affair with a "Christian evangelist", Rosalind Rinker, started Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, and a series of extra-marital dalliances with musical directors, personal secretaries, church secretaries, all during the move and pastorate time in Van Wert which lasted until the fall of 1957, when dic, and Harry, and Ermal, founded The Way Inc., and started work on renovating the family farm, and then the BRC. All during this time, there was no "good going bad". It was bad gojng worse! And, gaining money and members and victims yearly until the wretched death of metastatic melanoma claimed another body in May of 1985. Not a pretty story. Quite a shitty legacy. Immeasurable human suffering and horrific human carnage. No Jesus visible. No "good fruit" from the Righteous Branch. Abjectly opposed to and anti(against)-Christ. 

Don't be fooled by the false narrative of possible "good intentions"! The road to hell is paved with good intentions. In the twisted case of dictor paul, there were no "good intentions". There were perverted and psychotic pathologies with the accompanying depraved behaviors . There were victims, not "blessed followers". There was destruction, not deliverance. There was was brainwashing, not teaching. There was group think, not fellowship. There was normalization of Aryan Supremacist Theology, not Biblical Research. There was hubris, not Holy Spirit. There was theft, not community service. There was MLM economics, not outreach. There was control, not love. There was a cult of personality, not the truth of da woid. It was all trick, no treat. Don't be fooled again. Happy Halloween.

[skyrider]

11 minutes ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Hi all!

imo, one must never lose sight of the debilitating co-morbidities and unconfronted, untreated pathologies which were an integral and dominant part of dictor paul's lifelong devolution into madness. This was never "a good man gone wrong", or a "spiritual 'breaking bad' " story. This was the predictable outworking and acting out behavior of a deeply disturbed individual. 

This was the inevitable progression of a sexually and psychologically abused child of a dysfunctional Prussian immigrant family (read pre-Nazi white, Aryan nationalism), in rural, agrarian Ohio, populated by a major cluster of German immigrants. This is reflected even in the local town names....Minster, New Bremen, St. Mary's, Anna, and others, amongst an equally large population of Scots-Irish Protestant "colonists" in the area. Interesting cultural and historical mix of genomes.

Add to that, an increasing need for self-medication with alcohol in the teen years, and the growing paranoia and demand for approval and attention his malignant narcissism demanded, his mental "clarity" was under self-destructive assault from at least age 14. There were various misguided and/or uniformed attempts at intervention by family members, most notably older sisters Sevilla, and Lydia, and angry, punitive interventions by his guilty father, but dictor's "problems" remained unconfronted and untreated, hence predictable and inevitable from a clinical point of view, but totally hidden and disguised socially and interpersonally. Quite typically solipsistic and sociopathic.

dictor paul was "outta control" in high school already, and as the substance abuse increased so did the erratic, attention-seeking behavior. He eloped with his HS sweetheart. Went through a C- academic career at a WI Evangelical and Reformed denominational college supported by the local New Knoxville congregation, was part of Lindbergh's America First "Anti-War" Movement, took his first pastorate in Payne, OH, had his first extra-marital affair with a "Christian evangelist", Rosalind Rinker, started Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, and a series of extra-marital dalliances with musical directors, personal secretaries, church secretaries, all during the move and pastorate time in Van Wert which lasted until the fall of 1957, when dic, and Harry, and Ermal, founded The Way Inc., and started work on renovating the family farm, and then the BRC. All during this time, there was no "good going bad". It was bad gojng worse! And, gaining money and members and victims yearly until the wretched death of metastatic melanoma claimed another body in May of 1985. Not a pretty story. Quite a dangty legacy. Immeasurable human suffering and horrific human carnage. No Jesus visible. No "good fruit" from the Righteous Branch. Abjectly opposed to and anti(against)-Christ. 

Don't be fooled by the false narrative of possible "good intentions"! The road to hell is paved with good intentions. In the twisted case of dictor paul, there were no "good intentions". There were perverted and psychotic pathologies with the accompanying depraved behaviors . There were victims, not "blessed followers". There was destruction, not deliverance. There was was brainwashing, not teaching. There was group think, not fellowship. There was normalization of Aryan Supremacist Theology, not Biblical Research. There was hubris, not Holy Spirit. There was theft, not community service. There was MLM economics, not outreach. There was control, not love. There was a cult of personality, not the truth of da woid. It was all trick, no treat. Don't be fooled again. Happy Halloween.

Thanks again.....DWBH             

Love it when you post!

[Grace Valerie Claire]

13 minutes ago, skyrider said:

Thanks again.....DWBH             

Love it when you post!

DWBH, wow!!  I think you have described VPW perfectly. But, why on earth was this POS allowed to be a minister??!!

 

 

 

[skyrider]

52 minutes ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

.........

Don't be fooled by the false narrative of possible "good intentions"! The road to hell is paved with good intentions. In the twisted case of dictor paul, there were no "good intentions". There were perverted and psychotic pathologies with the accompanying depraved behaviors . There were victims, not "blessed followers". There was destruction, not deliverance. There was was brainwashing, not teaching. There was group think, not fellowship. There was normalization of Aryan Supremacist Theology, not Biblical Research. There was hubris, not Holy Spirit. There was theft, not community service. There was MLM economics, not outreach. There was control, not love. There was a cult of personality, not the truth of da woid. It was all trick, no treat. Don't be fooled again. Happy Halloween.

.........Wierwille exemplified the works of the flesh, not walking by the spirit.  He committed adultery and sexual predation, assaulting the foundation of love as Christ loved.  He lived a life of uncleanness, not uprightness of heart.  Wierwille lusted after idolatry, not seeking the altar of the Living God.  He stirred up strife and seditions, not comfort and exhortations.  Wierwille reveled in drunkenness, not the quenching of thirst from the Fountain of Living Waters.  He was a cherry-picker of selective verses, not the harvester of fruit of the spirit.  Wierwille stoked the fires of his night owl-meetings to send indoctrinated corps members to replicate his craft.

[T-Bone]

1 hour ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Hi all!

imo, one must never lose sight of the debilitating co-morbidities and unconfronted, untreated pathologies which were an integral and dominant part of dictor paul's lifelong devolution into madness. This was never "a good man gone wrong", or a "spiritual 'breaking bad' " story. This was the predictable outworking and acting out behavior of a deeply disturbed individual. 

This was the inevitable progression of a sexually and psychologically abused child of a dysfunctional Prussian immigrant family (read pre-Nazi white, Aryan nationalism), in rural, agrarian Ohio, populated by a major cluster of German immigrants. This is reflected even in the local town names....Minster, New Bremen, St. Mary's, Anna, and others, amongst an equally large population of Scots-Irish Protestant "colonists" in the area. Interesting cultural and historical mix of genomes.

Add to that, an increasing need for self-medication with alcohol in the teen years, and the growing paranoia and demand for approval and attention his malignant narcissism demanded, his mental "clarity" was under self-destructive assault from at least age 14. There were various misguided and/or uniformed attempts at intervention by family members, most notably older sisters Sevilla, and Lydia, and angry, punitive interventions by his guilty father, but dictor's "problems" remained unconfronted and untreated, hence predictable and inevitable from a clinical point of view, but totally hidden and disguised socially and interpersonally. Quite typically solipsistic and sociopathic.

dictor paul was "outta control" in high school already, and as the substance abuse increased so did the erratic, attention-seeking behavior. He eloped with his HS sweetheart. Went through a C- academic career at a WI Evangelical and Reformed denominational college supported by the local New Knoxville congregation, was part of Lindbergh's America First "Anti-War" Movement, took his first pastorate in Payne, OH, had his first extra-marital affair with a "Christian evangelist", Rosalind Rinker, started Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, and a series of extra-marital dalliances with musical directors, personal secretaries, church secretaries, all during the move and pastorate time in Van Wert which lasted until the fall of 1957, when dic, and Harry, and Ermal, founded The Way Inc., and started work on renovating the family farm, and then the BRC. All during this time, there was no "good going bad". It was bad gojng worse! And, gaining money and members and victims yearly until the wretched death of metastatic melanoma claimed another body in May of 1985. Not a pretty story. Quite a dangty legacy. Immeasurable human suffering and horrific human carnage. No Jesus visible. No "good fruit" from the Righteous Branch. Abjectly opposed to and anti(against)-Christ. 

Don't be fooled by the false narrative of possible "good intentions"! The road to hell is paved with good intentions. In the twisted case of dictor paul, there were no "good intentions". There were perverted and psychotic pathologies with the accompanying depraved behaviors . There were victims, not "blessed followers". There was destruction, not deliverance. There was was brainwashing, not teaching. There was group think, not fellowship. There was normalization of Aryan Supremacist Theology, not Biblical Research. There was hubris, not Holy Spirit. There was theft, not community service. There was MLM economics, not outreach. There was control, not love. There was a cult of personality, not the truth of da woid. It was all trick, no treat. Don't be fooled again. Happy Halloween.

 

hmmmm...I see there's a lot more stuff I need to factor into the theory I posted earlier

thanks - great post Don't Worry !!!!