Witness of the Stars

[waysider]

As far as the "star pictures" are concerned: from page 17.

"There is nothing in the groups of stars to even suggest the figures. this is the first thing which is noticed by every one who looks at the constellations. Take for example the sign of Virgo, and look at the stars. There is nothing whatever to suggest a human form; still less is there anything to show whether that form is a man or a woman. And so with all the others."

I know what you mean. Take, for example, the picture of Ursa Major that I posted. It looks nothing like a bear. I think they should have named it Squirrel-ious Huge-ious.

Edited March 31, 2011 by waysider

[Ham]

[Ham]

to innocent bystanders here.

This was not intended to be an *entirely* serious discussion.

that really is how I understand Bullinger in this.. it is up to the reader..

[teachmevp]

Edited March 31, 2011 by teachmevp

[mstar1]

My point was he was still going by the constellations we view. Fifty thousand years ago, those consellations didn't exist in their present form.

Are you saying he didnt read it in the original?

Edited March 31, 2011 by mstar1

[So_crates]

Are you saying he didnt read it in the original?

Yep, not only that but he also plagerized the works of Galileo, Copernicus, and Carl Sagan. :o :(

SoCrates

[T-Bone]

Yep, not only that but he also plagerized the works of Galileo, Copernicus, and Carl Sagan. :o :(

SoCrates

oh my stars - - uhm....well, not MY stars - it's just a figure of speech - - well, maybe not MY figure of speech..... anyway - we need to get another plagiarism thread going on Sun Spot Cafe.

Stella !!!!!!!

[Ham]

Here is a link to Rolleston's work

http://philologos.org/__eb-mazzaroth/101.htm

whether you agree or not..

it gives you a look into some fairly "primitive" beliefs.

these pictures and names were passed down relatively uncorrupted from antiquity..

[Ham]

I mean.. these were our ancestors, were they not? As a human being.. I am at the LEAST curious about what they thought..

[waysider]

I don't know. It seems as if we like to think the ancients had some sort of collectively profound thoughts. Now, here we are, thousands of years later. What sort of collectively profound thoughts do WE have to offer? I think we just assign a lot more importance to this stuff than it really deserves.

[So_crates]

I don't know. It seems as if we like to think the ancients had some sort of collectively profound thoughts. Now, here we are, thousands of years later. What sort of collectively profound thoughts do WE have to offer? I think we just assign a lot more importance to this stuff than it really deserves.

Our thoughts and the ancients thoughts are probably equally profound. Heck our thoughts and a dog's thoughts are probably equally profound: if you can't eat it, make love to it or sleep on it, pee on it.

SoCrates

Edited April 1, 2011 by So_crates

[waysider]

Our thoughts and the ancients thoughts are probably equally profound. Heck our thoughts and a dog's thoughts are probably equally profound: if you can't eat it, make love to it or sleep on it, pee on it.

SoCrates

Oh, you do that, too?

[T-Bone]

Our thoughts and the ancients thoughts are probably equally profound. Heck our thoughts and a dog's thoughts are probably equally profound: if you can't eat it, make love to it or sleep on it, pee on it.

SoCrates

you've just described my current decision-making process....that old Ben Franklin method was way too much work.

[Ham]

I don't know. It seems as if we like to think the ancients had some sort of collectively profound thoughts. Now, here we are, thousands of years later. What sort of collectively profound thoughts do WE have to offer? I think we just assign a lot more importance to this stuff than it really deserves.

I wonder what the inhabitants of the earth thousands of years in the future will have to say about us..

Our thoughts and the ancients thoughts are probably equally profound. Heck our thoughts and a dog's thoughts are probably equally profound: if you can't eat it, make love to it or sleep on it, pee on it.

SoCrates

I hope we evolved at least a *tad* past that..

[So_crates]

I hope we evolved at least a *tad* past that..

I'd like to agree with you, Ham. But most of the people I encounter IRL seldom think about anything beyond the next 30 seconds.

SoCrates

[Ham]

Maslow's hierarchy of needs might explain that..

and with the deterioration of society, the lower needs might prevail..

I mean.. an empty stomach is not a good political advisor..

[waysider]

Ham said: "Maslow's hierarchy of needs might explain that.."

Edited April 2, 2011 by waysider

[Jbarrax]

Actually, I think the pervasiveness of pop culture is more to blame. Life imitates art. Look at the depth of the people who are portrayed and or glamorized daily in popular television show, music, and movies. That's the standard for most people in terms of spiritual and political depth.

We're becoming a nation of morons.

[So_crates]

We're becoming a nation of morons.

A lot of which goes back to we want to become a nation of morons.

This all started long ago, when the war on intellectualism began.

Go to your school yards, who's made fun of? The jocks? No the nerds. The people who would one day figure out every modern convenience we have. The people who would take us to the moon.

Then on the job, you think the boss is going to hire someone smarter than him? Nah, too much of a threat. So stupider and stupider people move up the rank and files, looking for even stupider people to hire. Soon, people will be in important postitions that won't be able to find their backsides with both hands and radar.

Look at tv. Who do we celebrate? Jerry Springer. What are our sitcoms about? Normal life, like in the 50s? No, about freaks and flakes. These are our role models, people: Freaks and flakes.

Its a choice we as a nation made. Now were starting to see where it leads.

SoCrates

Edited April 3, 2011 by So_crates

[waysider]

I think, as we age, we all go through a phase where we view the future of humanity as hopeless. My grandparents did, my parents did, I did, and, in time I'm sure our kids will, too. Maybe this is what gave birth to existentialism. But, life goes on, just as it has for eons before us. I wonder what people in "the dark ages" thought about when they wrestled with life's mysteries.

[So_crates]

I think we're looking at the last epoch of the individual.

With computers everything can be monitored, everything can be regulated.

Without individuals society is doomed. Like or not we need people that think outside the box.

If you ever doubt that think of The Way as a society on a smaller scale. They're tanking because of groupthink, everybody is Waybrained so there are no new, fresh ideas, only those Saint Vic presented 30-40 years ago.

SoCrates

[geisha779]

I think, as we age, we all go through a phase where we view the future of humanity as hopeless. My grandparents did, my parents did, I did, and, in time I'm sure our kids will, too. Maybe this is what gave birth to existentialism. But, life goes on, just as it has for eons before us. I wonder what people in "the dark ages" thought about when they wrestled with life's mysteries.

Have you ever read the book of Ecclesiastes? It is all about the hopelessness of mankind and the futility of life without God. It addresses these questions of hopelessness that do arise. Pretty depressing read actually, yet it gives us a solution. It is supposed to point to where God has placed true wisdom, and not just what we see through our experiences. If that makes sense?

[T-Bone]

I think, as we age, we all go through a phase where we view the future of humanity as hopeless. My grandparents did, my parents did, I did, and, in time I'm sure our kids will, too. Maybe this is what gave birth to existentialism. But, life goes on, just as it has for eons before us. I wonder what people in "the dark ages" thought about when they wrestled with life's mysteries.

I think we're looking at the last epoch of the individual.

With computers everything can be monitored, everything can be regulated.

Without individuals society is doomed. Like or not we need people that think outside the box.

If you ever doubt that think of The Way as a society on a smaller scale. They're tanking because of groupthink, everybody is Waybrained so there are no new, fresh ideas, only those Saint Vic presented 30-40 years ago.

SoCrates

Have you ever read the book of Ecclesiastes? It is all about the hopelessness of mankind and the futility of life without God. It addresses these questions of hopelessness that do arise. Pretty depressing read actually, yet it gives us a solution. It is supposed to point to where God has placed true wisdom, and not just what we see through our experiences. If that makes sense?

Great discussion on this thread

Ecclesiastes has always been one of my favorite books for some reason...part of it might be the way it seems to resonate with my "hybrid faith" - one way to refer to the state of my faith after the TWI experience. The book covers a lot of ground and paints mostly a melancholy picture of the human condition amidst the futility of life....the point at the end of the book - remember now thy Creator in the days of my youth - really hits me big - in that i've reverted back to the simple faith i had as a child fascinated by the things of this world that science explained and a deep awe for the one who created it all.

Socrates brought up a good point about group-think and i just wanted to mention Karen Armstrong's book "A History of God" ; it's an interesting read; i can see how the threat of the unknown and modern technology is a big driving force behind fundamentalism.