As I've said many times, the purpose of communication is its result.
So, I'd go with my first instinct. But, so I didn't unneccessarily rip somebody a new one, I'd politely ask for clarification. Like, "What do you mean?"
Give them a chance to adjust their communication if they ment a different message.
Im no psychologist but I think whoever it is is having difficulties with whatever their own trauma is and for some reason that is indiscernable to me is lashing out at you --maybe because you have found an outlet here to be able to open up a little and they havent?? I dunno--I really have no idea.
I think the way it is worded it really is sort of a backhand slap,(or appears to be) but personally I doubt that its really about you but moreso about whoevers own unresolved anger and pain that got misplaced to you ---I wouldnt internalize it or take it to heart ...
i sorta go along the lines of what So_Crates said - first impression - and it didn't hit me as being nice at all. but it could be a misunderstanding - so clarification is needed for sure! And Mstar1 had a good point too - they may be envious of the way you've worked some things out or they're just envious of you being accepted and loved by many here
i'm curious as to who sent you this message - not "who" as in their name but who as in their relation to you. do you know the person? are they a close friend?
after reading the whole thing i found this middle part intriguing :
There happen to be real people with real hurts due to real injustices all over this planet. You happen to be one. I also happen to look at another one in the mirror every morning.
if you know this person - do you also know of their hurtful experiences? if you know them and know they've had those things happen to them - then perhaps the last sentence is tinged with some envy - though they still identify with your feelings.
....another angle could be is that they side with the person that hurt you; or they just simply want to hurt you for whatever reason.....and in that case, the first part of the message is to set you up - get you to let your guard down as you empathize with their similar experience and then bam! the zinger that knocks the wind out of your sails:
But feel free to hang onto how "special" yours makes you as long as that horse will ride. Please.
no matter how this shakes out - it's kinda mean-spirited in my book - even if it came from a friend who has been hurt.
Of course it's an insult. A put down. If it means what I read it stinks. I'll leave the balanced empathy to others. I don't suffer insults easily or for long. If someone doesn't like me, what I say or what I write all they have to do is move along. If they really want to get in my face about it that's going to be a situation of their making because they can easily avoid what's going to come next.
While it's true everyone does get hurt and suffer in this life the fact that we do sucks. It's inescapable but it isn't good. And I'll die my last breath cursing the f-king evil of this world that makes life insufferable for so many and declaring the only answer I've known to it - following Jesus Christ, a much better man than I'm sure I'll ever be. As far as the evil goes - acceptance is insane.
There are people who don't like the fact that you repeatedly reference your experience with VPW, that you feel now like it was wrong and that you realize now what you may have then or may not have - that it was wrong on both sides. You shouldn't have done what you did and you wouldn't have had the opportunity had it not been offered to you. Under his guidance and direction you did what you did.
VPW was a fully experienced adult, a teacher of the bible and a man who held the role of a pastor by virtue of the fact that he built an organization that brought people in under his direction. In that role he held the highest responsibility, greater than those who he was responsible for.
Any idiot would know that and would know that what he did was wrong. Saying it was wrong isn't wrong. Describing the betrayal and the results isn't wrong.
Some of us more than others suffer emotionally and struggle with the hurts of this life, be they small or large. We feel broken, torn, looking for that bright light to show the way out of the dark hole of life. Given that light doesn't mean we will never do the wrong thing, we'll stumble and fall and hurt again and again.
What's important is to live another day to tell the story, learn from it and move forward. You're doing that otherwise you would have blown your brains out years ago - some do that.
Whatever gives us the grip on getting through another day of living in this s---hole of a world is good for starters. There's more to it than that but if you don't get up and out for another day of fighting it - how's that go? - you live for the fight when that's all that you've got. But there's more than that.
You've got more than that and you know it. And you know what else - f-k anybody that can't bear to hear it. They don't have to. It's not their hurt or their burden.
I'm sure you already know there's no answer to "why?" Why - because. Because it happened, because life really does suck badly when it isn't cool and it's not cool a good percentage of the time. I'm fortunate but I do screen myself from anyone who would push my buttons or give me the urge to beat the crap out of them because they're such idiots. It's much easier to maintain my good will towards others remembering that just because they're as-sholes doesn't mean I have to be.
But y'know and having said that - writing screeds in an email is one thing - anyone say that to your face stick your foot up their as-s.Then tell them to get over it.
It's clearly an insult. Put another way, it says, "We all have our past hurts. If you think yours make you more special, have at it, but I'm tired of hearing about them from you."
I don't know the context of the remark, or what kind of relationship you have with the person who wrote it. If you and this person are friends and this is something that was blurted out in the midst of a heated discussion, in response to something you said that provoked the anger, I'd give the person who said that a chance to cool down and apologize. In any other scenario, I'd tell him or her to eff off.
I am hard of hearing and learned a long time ago to ask Holy Spirit when I don't understand what someone says, and often I need to shake it off like the dust-on-feet and moving forward without the dirt attached.
My opinion of your statement in question is that the person has been abused and is working it out. The problem with poetic phrasing is that it leaves so much to interpretation to the reader. I don't see any malice of superciliousness. Just trying to find words to communicate from a troubled heart.
I am hard of hearing and learned a long time ago to ask Holy Spirit when I don't understand what someone says, and often I need to shake it off like the dust-on-feet and moving forward without the dirt attached.
My opinion of your statement in question is that the person has been abused and is working it out. The problem with poetic phrasing is that it leaves so much to interpretation to the reader. I don't see any malice of superciliousness. Just trying to find words to communicate from a troubled heart.
I would agree with you, if only the first sentence were there. The second is clearly an insult. It may be from a "troubled heart," but it's clearly uncalled-for.
This is a fine example of why I get really F'ing sick of your moral superiority. I'm specifically referring to Twinky, Chockfull, and Waysider so far. Your first thought was, it HAS to be Johniam. Well, you're all WRONG!!! You're all on a witch hunt! You're all the fine upstanding citizens of Salem, MA a few hundred years ago reincarnated. How does it feel?
Excathedra: actually, I don't think you overdo mentioning VP. I haven't read all 20 million of your posts, but you really don't bring it up all the time that I can see.
quote: What's important is to live another day to tell the story, learn from it and move forward. You're doing that otherwise you would have blown your brains out years ago - some do that.
Amen. What VP did hasn't stopped you from being married, and having a cheerful disposition on GSC. I think most of us admire you for that in spite of disagreements.
I think the phrase "as long as the horse rides" means that what happened to you is relevant in some discussions, but not others. It does sound to me like it was intended as a put down, however.
Well, then, question asked and answered. Before you get all off on your little victim speech about the Salem witch hunts too far and all, the reason I asked the question is because previously when excathedra mentioned her story and background, you made some callous comment regarding how everyone has been hurt including yourself and made a comparison to large-scale world tragedies. So it wasn't that far of a stretch.
So, rather than accuse you directly of it, I asked the question. And you answered it wasn't you. Good enough - I'm not accusing you of lying or anything.
But, feel free to get as much mileage as you can out of it.
This is a fine example of why I get really F'ing sick of your moral superiority. I'm specifically referring to Twinky, Chockfull, and Waysider so far. Your first thought was, it HAS to be Johniam. Well, you're all WRONG!!! You're all on a witch hunt! You're all the fine upstanding citizens of Salem, MA a few hundred years ago reincarnated. How does it feel?
Actually, since you brought up moral superiority, I thought I'd mention to you that you come off that way to me with your attitudes and posts. I see a lot of questions directed at you that go ignored, and instead what comes back sounds like quotes from PFAL.
So let me ask you directly - why do you refuse to answer questions and instead feel the need to teach everyone around here? Do you think we don't know scriptures, aren't Christian, or what? What are your conclusions regarding the people on GSC? There's plenty of people on here that were in TWI longer than yourself, did more in the organization, took more classes, taught more, etc.
i don't know this person at all -- only that they are a christian and used to be a wayfer -- at first they told me (a few days before) that they admired my telling my crapola
and then i got this and i didn't "get it" - but i think i do now
you know, i don't spend my day brewing over wierwille or other past abuses and i don't talk about it to my coworkers and everyday "friends"
but i don't mind speaking up on this site especially when wierwille is the subject and lately since i know the site is closing down
years ago i couldn't even handle telling a thing -- i would have to go back and delete it all because i was so ashamed to look at the words
no more
i'm thankful for that
i'm sure i'm still screwy but not so afraid
my 20 million posts are not all really even about wierwille and the way. well actually i have no idea what they're about lol
but thank you again. you made me feel valuable and not crazy
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OldSkool
No, sounds like a really nasty thing to say to someone.
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So_crates
As I've said many times, the purpose of communication is its result.
So, I'd go with my first instinct. But, so I didn't unneccessarily rip somebody a new one, I'd politely ask for clarification. Like, "What do you mean?"
Give them a chance to adjust their communication if they ment a different message.
SoCrates
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waysider
It's an insult----plain and simple.
(I hope that didn't sound too bitter.)
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excathedra
i did ask for clarification but haven't heard back
so i'm impatient and thought i would ask because it was bothering me since i felt like it was mean nasty
"as long as that horse will ride"
?????????????
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waysider
That's an impolite way of saying, "shut up".
edit:
(I hope that didn't sound too bitter.)
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mstar1
Im no psychologist but I think whoever it is is having difficulties with whatever their own trauma is and for some reason that is indiscernable to me is lashing out at you --maybe because you have found an outlet here to be able to open up a little and they havent?? I dunno--I really have no idea.
I think the way it is worded it really is sort of a backhand slap,(or appears to be) but personally I doubt that its really about you but moreso about whoevers own unresolved anger and pain that got misplaced to you ---I wouldnt internalize it or take it to heart ...
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T-Bone
Hi Excathedra,
i sorta go along the lines of what So_Crates said - first impression - and it didn't hit me as being nice at all. but it could be a misunderstanding - so clarification is needed for sure! And Mstar1 had a good point too - they may be envious of the way you've worked some things out or they're just envious of you being accepted and loved by many here
i'm curious as to who sent you this message - not "who" as in their name but who as in their relation to you. do you know the person? are they a close friend?
after reading the whole thing i found this middle part intriguing :
if you know this person - do you also know of their hurtful experiences? if you know them and know they've had those things happen to them - then perhaps the last sentence is tinged with some envy - though they still identify with your feelings.
....another angle could be is that they side with the person that hurt you; or they just simply want to hurt you for whatever reason.....and in that case, the first part of the message is to set you up - get you to let your guard down as you empathize with their similar experience and then bam! the zinger that knocks the wind out of your sails:
no matter how this shakes out - it's kinda mean-spirited in my book - even if it came from a friend who has been hurt.
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chockfull
johniam is taking up riding lessons?
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socks
Of course it's an insult. A put down. If it means what I read it stinks. I'll leave the balanced empathy to others. I don't suffer insults easily or for long. If someone doesn't like me, what I say or what I write all they have to do is move along. If they really want to get in my face about it that's going to be a situation of their making because they can easily avoid what's going to come next.
While it's true everyone does get hurt and suffer in this life the fact that we do sucks. It's inescapable but it isn't good. And I'll die my last breath cursing the f-king evil of this world that makes life insufferable for so many and declaring the only answer I've known to it - following Jesus Christ, a much better man than I'm sure I'll ever be. As far as the evil goes - acceptance is insane.
There are people who don't like the fact that you repeatedly reference your experience with VPW, that you feel now like it was wrong and that you realize now what you may have then or may not have - that it was wrong on both sides. You shouldn't have done what you did and you wouldn't have had the opportunity had it not been offered to you. Under his guidance and direction you did what you did.
VPW was a fully experienced adult, a teacher of the bible and a man who held the role of a pastor by virtue of the fact that he built an organization that brought people in under his direction. In that role he held the highest responsibility, greater than those who he was responsible for.
Any idiot would know that and would know that what he did was wrong. Saying it was wrong isn't wrong. Describing the betrayal and the results isn't wrong.
Some of us more than others suffer emotionally and struggle with the hurts of this life, be they small or large. We feel broken, torn, looking for that bright light to show the way out of the dark hole of life. Given that light doesn't mean we will never do the wrong thing, we'll stumble and fall and hurt again and again.
What's important is to live another day to tell the story, learn from it and move forward. You're doing that otherwise you would have blown your brains out years ago - some do that.
Whatever gives us the grip on getting through another day of living in this s---hole of a world is good for starters. There's more to it than that but if you don't get up and out for another day of fighting it - how's that go? - you live for the fight when that's all that you've got. But there's more than that.
You've got more than that and you know it. And you know what else - f-k anybody that can't bear to hear it. They don't have to. It's not their hurt or their burden.
I'm sure you already know there's no answer to "why?" Why - because. Because it happened, because life really does suck badly when it isn't cool and it's not cool a good percentage of the time. I'm fortunate but I do screen myself from anyone who would push my buttons or give me the urge to beat the crap out of them because they're such idiots. It's much easier to maintain my good will towards others remembering that just because they're as-sholes doesn't mean I have to be.
But y'know and having said that - writing screeds in an email is one thing - anyone say that to your face stick your foot up their as-s.Then tell them to get over it.
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Linda Z
It's clearly an insult. Put another way, it says, "We all have our past hurts. If you think yours make you more special, have at it, but I'm tired of hearing about them from you."
I don't know the context of the remark, or what kind of relationship you have with the person who wrote it. If you and this person are friends and this is something that was blurted out in the midst of a heated discussion, in response to something you said that provoked the anger, I'd give the person who said that a chance to cool down and apologize. In any other scenario, I'd tell him or her to eff off.
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Bolshevik
It's an insult. F'em.
OMG LMAO
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Kit Sober
I am hard of hearing and learned a long time ago to ask Holy Spirit when I don't understand what someone says, and often I need to shake it off like the dust-on-feet and moving forward without the dirt attached.
My opinion of your statement in question is that the person has been abused and is working it out. The problem with poetic phrasing is that it leaves so much to interpretation to the reader. I don't see any malice of superciliousness. Just trying to find words to communicate from a troubled heart.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I would agree with you, if only the first sentence were there. The second is clearly an insult. It may be from a "troubled heart," but it's clearly uncalled-for.
George
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Twinky
It sounds mean and belittling.
"You got stabbed in the back. I got a paper cut on my finger. We've both been hurt. Now let's be brave and make like neither happened."
Or maybe: "My dad's bigger than your dad."
Sad that someone could write that, but you could ask if they meant it differently from how it comes across. If you care that much.
Or you could just put them on Ignore and not open any more PMs from them unless they have a header "Apology."
Chockfull - what came to my mind also.
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johniam
quote: johniam is taking up riding lessons?
*I* did not send that to her.
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johniam
This is a fine example of why I get really F'ing sick of your moral superiority. I'm specifically referring to Twinky, Chockfull, and Waysider so far. Your first thought was, it HAS to be Johniam. Well, you're all WRONG!!! You're all on a witch hunt! You're all the fine upstanding citizens of Salem, MA a few hundred years ago reincarnated. How does it feel?
Excathedra: actually, I don't think you overdo mentioning VP. I haven't read all 20 million of your posts, but you really don't bring it up all the time that I can see.
quote: What's important is to live another day to tell the story, learn from it and move forward. You're doing that otherwise you would have blown your brains out years ago - some do that.
Amen. What VP did hasn't stopped you from being married, and having a cheerful disposition on GSC. I think most of us admire you for that in spite of disagreements.
I think the phrase "as long as the horse rides" means that what happened to you is relevant in some discussions, but not others. It does sound to me like it was intended as a put down, however.
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Twinky
Apologies as you say it's not your email, Johniam, though it does sound like your tone. I accept that you didn't write that.
I am not "witch hunting" you. Or anybody else. Life's too short.
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chockfull
Well, then, question asked and answered. Before you get all off on your little victim speech about the Salem witch hunts too far and all, the reason I asked the question is because previously when excathedra mentioned her story and background, you made some callous comment regarding how everyone has been hurt including yourself and made a comparison to large-scale world tragedies. So it wasn't that far of a stretch.
So, rather than accuse you directly of it, I asked the question. And you answered it wasn't you. Good enough - I'm not accusing you of lying or anything.
But, feel free to get as much mileage as you can out of it.
Actually, since you brought up moral superiority, I thought I'd mention to you that you come off that way to me with your attitudes and posts. I see a lot of questions directed at you that go ignored, and instead what comes back sounds like quotes from PFAL.
So let me ask you directly - why do you refuse to answer questions and instead feel the need to teach everyone around here? Do you think we don't know scriptures, aren't Christian, or what? What are your conclusions regarding the people on GSC? There's plenty of people on here that were in TWI longer than yourself, did more in the organization, took more classes, taught more, etc.
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excathedra
thank you all sincerely
i don't know this person at all -- only that they are a christian and used to be a wayfer -- at first they told me (a few days before) that they admired my telling my crapola
and then i got this and i didn't "get it" - but i think i do now
you know, i don't spend my day brewing over wierwille or other past abuses and i don't talk about it to my coworkers and everyday "friends"
but i don't mind speaking up on this site especially when wierwille is the subject and lately since i know the site is closing down
years ago i couldn't even handle telling a thing -- i would have to go back and delete it all because i was so ashamed to look at the words
no more
i'm thankful for that
i'm sure i'm still screwy but not so afraid
my 20 million posts are not all really even about wierwille and the way. well actually i have no idea what they're about lol
but thank you again. you made me feel valuable and not crazy
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So_crates
No matter what, ex, don't let them silence you. People who come here need to know what Saint Vic and his demented circus was really all about.
I'll repeat something I have to keep reminding myself: Evil wins when good people do nothing.
SoCrates
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excathedra
i'll be honest i really think i do it for me -- not for others
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waysider
...and why is that supposed to be a bad thing?
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excathedra
i just didn't want to give the impression that i had an altruistic purpose
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So_crates
Sounds like a good deal to me: you help yourself and, in the process, others get helped too.
SoCrates
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