Here's a forum I found discussing the Way Corps, hitchhiking and some of the tragadies that occured.
On this forum.....Jonny Lingo is discussing all the fun times he had in twi and, then specifically, the incident where the hitch-hiking corps girl gets raped.
He was reprimanded. In fact, he was kicked out of the Way Corps for it. For "not being the man he should have been". I remember it specifically.
The girl, a friend of mine, told me about it all these years later via pms at the GSC. Basically, she said that the driver of the semi tractor trailer and his partner stopped the truck, told the hitching partner to "get out". And, he did. Then they raped her for two hours. The hitching partner was a really nice guy from New York City. He was a very skinny, frail looking kind of a guy, very young (early twenties) and definitely not a tough guy at all. He was probably peeing in his pants with fear and took the path of least resistance and figured that he could at least pray for her. I always felt bad for him too, but obviously worse for her. He was a really nice guy and always had shame in his eyes after that when I'd see him at The Rock.
I remember that the girl, before she left to go and hitch hike to our "L.E.A.D. Outdoor Academy", had always had the most beautiful "doe eyes". Big beautiful brown eyes. She was a thin gal with short brown hair, and when she had come back after the incident, I remember that her eyes had changed from her doe eyed beauty to eyes that just looked like she had seen "death". I tried to talk to her once, but she wasn't talking and of course I don't blame her for it. I remember that even though the closest thing Craig Martindale (the then Corps Director) said about it being rape was simply that her partner failed to be the man he should have been.
Well......I've shared this a couple of times on GSC, so I'll keep it brief:
Back in the early 70s, before LEAD.....Total Fitness Institute (TFI) was a similar twi-hitchhiking experience to California. Martindale and a corps woman were partnered to put their thumbs out and get to California. When they got to a bus stop in Oklahoma City, and after about an hour of trying to get rides.....both, martindale and the corps woman, each found a ride at about the same time.
With two rides available, they now had a dilemma.....and martindale said, "I'll take my ride and you takes yours. I'll see you in California." And, that's what happened.
Both arrived safely without incident.....BUT MARTINDALE VIOLATED THE PRINCIPLE OF 2x2 AND FAILED TO BE THE MAN WHO WOULD PROTECT A CORPS WOMAN.
Years later, that corps woman.......I married her.
I'm at a loss to just what leadership expected this guy to do.
Let's go over his options:
1. Defend her honor? First, it was two against one. Second, while not mentioned in the text, I don't know many truck drivers that don't carry some type of weapon. So all he would have done was gotten himself seriously wounded or killed and the results would have been the same.
2. Refused to leave her? Then, in all likelihood, they would have resorted to force. Him seriously wounded or killed; results the same.
3. Use power of attorney? Never worked for me. Him: seriously wounded or killed; results the same.
4. Revelation Before they got on the truck? Doesn't that work with leadership who sent them in the first place? Why didn't God warn the leader that he was putting these people in danger? Or wasn't he listening?
His choice was probably the best he could have made under the circumstances. Being out of the situation, he was free to contact the police and have them track down the perpetrators.
4. Revelation Before they got on the truck? Doesn't that work with leadership who sent them in the first place? Why didn't God warn the leader that he was putting these people in danger? Or wasn't he listening?
Why didn't God warn twi leadership to NOT send corps hitchhiking in the first place?
That's a good question....of which, one will never be answered. While in plaf, wierwille makes a big deal about NOT POINTING FINGERS else three point back at you.....twi does it ALL the time. They've rigged the guilt-game.....heads they win, tails you lose.
And, martindale.....6'2" and 210 lbs male probably doesn't have a passing thought about being raped while hitchhiking. He got his ride and didn't give a sh!t about his female hitchhiker traveling with strangers. Where's the compassion? Where's the common decency of an "unbeliever?"
Martindale FAILED to follow 2X2 corps rules.......and then, BLASTS ANOTHER CORPS GUY years later for leaving this girl? What if martindale's situation would have resulted in his hitchhiking partner being repeatedly raped??? Oh that's right......rules only apply to the shlubs, not the ruling class.
Of course.....take it back one more notch: Wierwille didn't CANCEL the LEAD PROGRAM after Ken Barton, 7th corps, was accidently killed alongside the roads of Kansas.
Years ago, when RalphD was posting on this subject.....he went into length about wierwille and his son-in-law, J0hn Svmmerv!lle, with regards to the TFI program. Wierwille couldn't get John to do certain things that violated John's judgement. Wierwille was unable to push John arround.....and they parted ways. And, wierwille started up LEAD with "his" people.
Why didn't God warn twi leadership to NOT send corps hitchhiking in the first place?
Someone really needs God to tell them that?
Anyone with an thimble full of common sense would know its not the brightest idea to send young girls hitchhiking across the country. No 'revelation' is necessary to know that
The 'leaders'(gag) that put them in harms way are the ones that are complicit in the death and rape that occurred
Anyone with an thimble full of common sense would know its not the brightest idea to send young girls hitchhiking across the country. No 'revelation' is necessary to know that
The 'leaders'(gag) that put them in harms way are the ones that are complicit in the death and rape that occurred
I couldn't agree with you more, mstar1. The point I was attempting to get at was the leadership, believing in divine revelation, would have used that as one of their excuses. They would have landed on him like the Marines hitting Tripoli saying: Why didn't you listen to God?
Now if I were in that guy's shoes, i would have fired back the same question: why didn't you listen to God? He would have told you before he told me.
Way HQ is in Ohio. Wierwille spent his entire life in Ohio. Should it have come as a surprise to him that hitch hiking is illegal in most parts of Ohio and has been for decades and decades? L.E.A.D. participants were instructed to only stick their thumbs out on the on-ramps. Why? Because leadership KNEW it was illegal to hitch ON the interstate. That's right. They KNEW hitch hiking was illegal unless certain loopholes in the law were manipulated. They were thumbing their noses at the law of the land. For a supposedly Bible-centric organization, they seem to have been abysmally ignorant of the Biblical exhortation to follow the laws of the society in which one resides. Ignorant or unconcerned about following advise that was clearly written in the book they claimed to have mastered. And, when they were made aware of the tragic situations that were happening because of this policy, they coldly turned their gaze the other direction and blamed the victims, rather than accept responsibility for their flawed directives. They had less "spiritual perception" than a pet rock.
Way HQ is in Ohio. Wierwille spent his entire life in Ohio. Should it have come as a surprise to him that hitch hiking is illegal in most parts of Ohio and has been for decades and decades? L.E.A.D. participants were instructed to only stick their thumbs out on the on-ramps. Why? Because leadership KNEW it was illegal to hitch ON the interstate. That's right. They KNEW hitch hiking was illegal unless certain loopholes in the law were manipulated. They were thumbing their noses at the law of the land. For a supposedly Bible-centric organization, they seem to have been abysmally ignorant of the Biblical exhortation to follow the laws of the society in which one resides. Ignorant or unconcerned about following advise that was clearly written in the book they claimed to have mastered. And, when they were made aware of the tragic situations that were happening because of this policy, they coldly turned their gaze the other direction and blamed the victims, rather than accept responsibility for their flawed directives. They had less "spiritual perception" than a pet rock.
It was illegal in Kansas too where most of the corps hitched to LEAD. I remember early in my first year a couple actually got arrested and they had to be bailed out of jail. Then they still had to hitch to LEAD and be there within the time frame that everyone else was...36 hours from a particular time. What a bunch of jack rabbits. They still made it in time, but really, that should have been a wake up call. They probably got yelled at for not believing properly. All I know is, the female of that couple left the WC eventually. I don't remember who the guy was.
Attention, all those who extol the value of the warm, fuzzy feelings you remember!
The upper management of The Way did not share in your sentimentality. It was a business, geared toward one goal----generating a steady flow of suckers who were willing to increase their bottom line. Let me give that to you in a literal translation according to usage.....They didn't give a rat's azz what happened to you out there, as long as what you were doing had potential for enriching the coffers.
Having involved myself with the way international in the mid 90s it shocks me to hear of all the lead incidents that have been swept away from memory inside TWI. I never heard of any of this. But, I did hear all about the glory days of lead and how wonderful it was to do the hitchhiking thing..
It really sucks that people were raped and hurt. Not surprised though - there are sick people on the prowl out there. I wonder how long before the S.O.W.E.R.S go before one of them becomes a victim?
Attention, all those who extol the value of the warm, fuzzy feelings you remember!
The upper management of The Way did not share in your sentimentality. It was a business, geared toward one goal----generating a steady flow of suckers who were willing to increase their bottom line. Let me give that to you in a literal translation according to usage.....They didn't give a rat's azz what happened to you out there, as long as what you were doing had potential for enriching the coffers.
waysider....that "literal translation" could also have been applied to vp's WOW Program.
As long as the ministry wasn't blamed, the wow program was providing a steady flow of new recruits while the "wow vets" moved into the college division and way corps program.
WOWs---> new recruits ---> more WOWs ---> corps ---> cash ---> campuses ---> strategic power
Attention, all those who extol the value of the warm, fuzzy feelings you remember!
The upper management of The Way did not share in your sentimentality. It was a business, geared toward one goal----generating a steady flow of suckers who were willing to increase their bottom line. Let me give that to you in a literal translation according to usage.....They didn't give a rat's azz what happened to you out there, as long as what you were doing had potential for enriching the coffers.
For those of you who may be unclear on the point, I'd like to spell it out for you.
Go dig out your "Heart of the Way Corps" tape set.
IIRC, that's 7 tapes. 2 of them have vpw speaking. Play them both, and listen when he speaks
about LEAD. If you're falling asleep, start paying attention when he says
"You're going to hitchhike to LEAD even if you NEVER make it."
In a few minutes, he gets to the part where he addresses the danger of being raped hitchhiking to LEAD.
"Well, you could be raped here in the Green Valley...."
vpw makes it clear that- because one could POTENTIALLY be raped ANYWHERE,
he sees no point in reducing the instructions that maximize the risk of being raped.
Despite knowing-and addressing-that forcing them to hitchhike was a voluntary risk factor
that led directly to some women being raped, vpw was determined to continue the practice,
no matter HOW many of you it hurt.
After all, it's not like he CARED about any of you. If a few wows or corps got raped or killed,
well, there will be more of them next year. Just make sure "the ministry be not blamed"
and move on. Let's never discuss the ministry SHOULD have been blamed because it had hazardous
I guess it's remarkable that MORE catastrophic incidents didn't occur. :(
George
other than the death of someone [which would be extremely difficult to cover -up of course] - i hate to say this but there may be a few more horror stories [rapes, sexual molestations and such] that we haven't heard about simply because they went unreported out of shame or fear by the victim.
Having involved myself with the way international in the mid 90s it shocks me to hear of all the lead incidents that have been swept away from memory inside TWI. I never heard of any of this. But, I did hear all about the glory days of lead and how wonderful it was to do the hitchhiking thing...
Shocking, absolutely shocking......that twi would whitewash their sins!
Wonder if the '60s folk never heard of the '50s stuff...
Wonder if the '70s folk never heard of the '60s stuff...
Wonder if the '80s folk never heard of the '70s stuff...
I hitch hiked a lot in the '60s and saw first hand how dangerous it can be. I had a few close calls myself. So, it didn't really surprise me too much to learn of some of the tragedies that happened in TWI. What surprised me, or rather, disgusted me, was to learn how unconcerned upper management was with the whole issue of safety. When terrible things happened and were brought to their attention, they plowed ahead with their ill conceived programs, undaunted by reality.
I hitch hiked a lot in the '60s and saw first hand how dangerous it can be. I had a few close calls myself. So, it didn't really surprise me too much to learn of some of the tragedies that happened in TWI. What surprised me, or rather, disgusted me, was to learn how unconcerned upper management was with the whole issue of safety. When terrible things happened and were brought to their attention, they plowed ahead with their ill conceived programs, undaunted by reality.
I understand that in the 40's & 50's hitch hiking was fairly common, especially if one was a returning veteran. Things started getting nastier when more and more people started driving. Hitching is wrong on so many fronts. For one thing one is "mooching" from another. When I did it on my LEAD tours, we weren't treated very well by people. I recall being run out of truck stops just because I was hitch hiking. Hitching was a miserable experience for me. The thing is, thumbing did not even really need to be a part of the program. The point was to challenge people, right? Well, there are a lot of other, more effective ways of doing that especially in a wilderness setting. It would not have been that expensive to run a mini-bus back and forth to Tinney. Even if it were, wouldn't the safety factor been worth the cost? Naw, Waysider's right, they didn't give a hoot about the people. I've often wondered if VP didn't get some kind of thrill out of it.
So did Victor Paul Wierwille ever go hitch hiking cross country? Or just bind that burden on other's shoulders?
No, but then he wishes here were the man he knew to be.
toppie (10th corps) got raped (and still has not recovered) hitching to lead
then we have the 11th corps, i believe, bus accident -- remember rochelle?
i mean, come on, did they give one flying f about these wonderful people?
it's too sad for words
7th corps, 10th corps, 11th corps---Do you see where I'm going with this? That's 5 corps years right there. Where was this great "spiritual awareness" they claimed to have? They watched it happen for five years (at least) and still didn't see the handwriting on the wall? More like they saw it and just didn't care. It doesn't take one ounce of "spiritual perception" to understand the severity of what was going on . It just required a little common sense and compassion. I don't think they had either----especially the latter of the two.
toppie (10th corps) got raped (and still has not recovered) hitching to lead
then we have the 11th corps, i believe, bus accident -- remember rochelle?
i mean, come on, did they give one flying f about these wonderful people?
it's too sad for words
It's sad indeed. It was a stupid idea to start with but when someone actually died, that should have been a wake up call. Remember the 5th Corps guy that was doing the "cleanse" and left HQ grounds one day to buy cookies and was killed in a car accident? From what I remember, they did away with The Colon Cleanse for that very reason. Yet when it came to L.E.A.D. they didn't have the sense to cancel the hitch hiking. Go figure.
The incident in the 11th Corps was when they were transporting the L.E.A.D. participants to the road after a session. People were riding in the back of a pick up which was also pulling a trailer. The truck got hit by a crosswind and went off the road spilling people as it went plus I believe the trailer struck some people. Again, young people deliberately put in peril. One is not supposed to ride in the back of a pick-up unrestrained for obvious reasons. Yet, TWI did not alter their program one bit. Probably blamed it on the believing of the participants.
It's sad indeed. It was a stupid idea to start with but when someone actually died, that should have been a wake up call. Remember the 5th Corps guy that was doing the "cleanse" and left HQ grounds one day to buy cookies and was killed in a car accident? From what I remember, they did away with The Colon Cleanse for that very reason. Yet when it came to L.E.A.D. they didn't have the sense to cancel the hitch hiking. Go figure.
I'm sorry to digress. I mean they missed the revelation? I had to miss a witnessing day with local way disciples on Saturday because I sprained my ankle badly playing soccer with my fellowship coordinator's kids the previous evening. I was reproved strongly for missing the revelation because "God would have told me" how to avoid this "attack" before such a spiritually significant event as witnessing with way disciples! I mean look at the learning that was stolen from me.
But yet people died and were raped hitch hiking during LEAD?
Blind guides! You strain your water so you won't accidentally swallow a gnat, but you swallow a camel!
How did I ever become involved with these mental midgets? (rhetorical - please spare me the answers )
I never knew about the LEAD assaults until I read it here. My Corps didn't get to go, so not sure what the plans would have been. Probably to hitch.
What we were asked to do was to hitch to cities where we were to be Lightbearers. The only instructions we got were not to accept lifts in the open backs of vehicles - you know, a work utility vehicle with cab for driver and usually one passenger, and an open back where equipment could be carried. We were given a deadline to be at the venue.
We were not given any kind of map either of the states or cities we might pass through, or of the city we were going to. Just an address. Nuts, huh? If you're hitching, you at least want to know if you're being carried in the right direction.
Nah. We were to believe God for the right lifts where we could witness to drivers, believe God that the drivers would also take it into their hearts to buy us meals at truckstops (though I think we might have been given a sack lunch to take with us, can't recall), believe God for our safe and speedy journey. I believe we were taken out by bus or some such to a suitable hitching spot (ie, we didn't start from outside TWI's gate).
If we got to the destination late (or too near the appointed time) we had to examine ourselves to see where our believing had broken down, such that it was so difficult for us to get the right lifts.
Actually I quite liked it. I trusted them to know what they were doing (more fool me) and overcame my qualms because they wouldn't let us do anything foolish, would they? Like firearms safety training, it was to help us overcome our fears.
I still hitch occasionally (just short distances) and also occasionally offer others lifts. It's easier to do this in some countries than others.
We were not given any kind of map either of the states or cities we might pass through, or of the city we were going to. Just an address. Nuts, huh? If you're hitching, you at least want to know if you're being carried in the right direction.
So, what's the problem? You just Google-map it on your Blackberry, and off you go!
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skyrider
On this forum.....Jonny Lingo is discussing all the fun times he had in twi and, then specifically, the incident where the hitch-hiking corps girl gets raped.
Well......I've shared this a couple of times on GSC, so I'll keep it brief:
Back in the early 70s, before LEAD.....Total Fitness Institute (TFI) was a similar twi-hitchhiking experience to California. Martindale and a corps woman were partnered to put their thumbs out and get to California. When they got to a bus stop in Oklahoma City, and after about an hour of trying to get rides.....both, martindale and the corps woman, each found a ride at about the same time.
With two rides available, they now had a dilemma.....and martindale said, "I'll take my ride and you takes yours. I'll see you in California." And, that's what happened.
Both arrived safely without incident.....BUT MARTINDALE VIOLATED THE PRINCIPLE OF 2x2 AND FAILED TO BE THE MAN WHO WOULD PROTECT A CORPS WOMAN.
Years later, that corps woman.......I married her.
.
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So_crates
I'm at a loss to just what leadership expected this guy to do.
Let's go over his options:
1. Defend her honor? First, it was two against one. Second, while not mentioned in the text, I don't know many truck drivers that don't carry some type of weapon. So all he would have done was gotten himself seriously wounded or killed and the results would have been the same.
2. Refused to leave her? Then, in all likelihood, they would have resorted to force. Him seriously wounded or killed; results the same.
3. Use power of attorney? Never worked for me. Him: seriously wounded or killed; results the same.
4. Revelation Before they got on the truck? Doesn't that work with leadership who sent them in the first place? Why didn't God warn the leader that he was putting these people in danger? Or wasn't he listening?
His choice was probably the best he could have made under the circumstances. Being out of the situation, he was free to contact the police and have them track down the perpetrators.
SoCrates
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skyrider
Why didn't God warn twi leadership to NOT send corps hitchhiking in the first place?
That's a good question....of which, one will never be answered. While in plaf, wierwille makes a big deal about NOT POINTING FINGERS else three point back at you.....twi does it ALL the time. They've rigged the guilt-game.....heads they win, tails you lose.
And, martindale.....6'2" and 210 lbs male probably doesn't have a passing thought about being raped while hitchhiking. He got his ride and didn't give a sh!t about his female hitchhiker traveling with strangers. Where's the compassion? Where's the common decency of an "unbeliever?"
Martindale FAILED to follow 2X2 corps rules.......and then, BLASTS ANOTHER CORPS GUY years later for leaving this girl? What if martindale's situation would have resulted in his hitchhiking partner being repeatedly raped??? Oh that's right......rules only apply to the shlubs, not the ruling class.
Of course.....take it back one more notch: Wierwille didn't CANCEL the LEAD PROGRAM after Ken Barton, 7th corps, was accidently killed alongside the roads of Kansas.
Years ago, when RalphD was posting on this subject.....he went into length about wierwille and his son-in-law, J0hn Svmmerv!lle, with regards to the TFI program. Wierwille couldn't get John to do certain things that violated John's judgement. Wierwille was unable to push John arround.....and they parted ways. And, wierwille started up LEAD with "his" people.
How far back do the violations go?
How deep is the arrogance in twi?
How vast is the narcissism founding?
.
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mstar1
Someone really needs God to tell them that?
Anyone with an thimble full of common sense would know its not the brightest idea to send young girls hitchhiking across the country. No 'revelation' is necessary to know that
The 'leaders'(gag) that put them in harms way are the ones that are complicit in the death and rape that occurred
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So_crates
I couldn't agree with you more, mstar1. The point I was attempting to get at was the leadership, believing in divine revelation, would have used that as one of their excuses. They would have landed on him like the Marines hitting Tripoli saying: Why didn't you listen to God?
Now if I were in that guy's shoes, i would have fired back the same question: why didn't you listen to God? He would have told you before he told me.
SoCrates
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waysider
Way HQ is in Ohio. Wierwille spent his entire life in Ohio. Should it have come as a surprise to him that hitch hiking is illegal in most parts of Ohio and has been for decades and decades? L.E.A.D. participants were instructed to only stick their thumbs out on the on-ramps. Why? Because leadership KNEW it was illegal to hitch ON the interstate. That's right. They KNEW hitch hiking was illegal unless certain loopholes in the law were manipulated. They were thumbing their noses at the law of the land. For a supposedly Bible-centric organization, they seem to have been abysmally ignorant of the Biblical exhortation to follow the laws of the society in which one resides. Ignorant or unconcerned about following advise that was clearly written in the book they claimed to have mastered. And, when they were made aware of the tragic situations that were happening because of this policy, they coldly turned their gaze the other direction and blamed the victims, rather than accept responsibility for their flawed directives. They had less "spiritual perception" than a pet rock.
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Broken Arrow
It was illegal in Kansas too where most of the corps hitched to LEAD. I remember early in my first year a couple actually got arrested and they had to be bailed out of jail. Then they still had to hitch to LEAD and be there within the time frame that everyone else was...36 hours from a particular time. What a bunch of jack rabbits. They still made it in time, but really, that should have been a wake up call. They probably got yelled at for not believing properly. All I know is, the female of that couple left the WC eventually. I don't remember who the guy was.
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waysider
Attention, all those who extol the value of the warm, fuzzy feelings you remember!
The upper management of The Way did not share in your sentimentality. It was a business, geared toward one goal----generating a steady flow of suckers who were willing to increase their bottom line. Let me give that to you in a literal translation according to usage.....They didn't give a rat's azz what happened to you out there, as long as what you were doing had potential for enriching the coffers.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I guess it's remarkable that MORE catastrophic incidents didn't occur. :(
George
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OldSkool
Having involved myself with the way international in the mid 90s it shocks me to hear of all the lead incidents that have been swept away from memory inside TWI. I never heard of any of this. But, I did hear all about the glory days of lead and how wonderful it was to do the hitchhiking thing..
It really sucks that people were raped and hurt. Not surprised though - there are sick people on the prowl out there. I wonder how long before the S.O.W.E.R.S go before one of them becomes a victim?
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skyrider
waysider....that "literal translation" could also have been applied to vp's WOW Program.
As long as the ministry wasn't blamed, the wow program was providing a steady flow of new recruits while the "wow vets" moved into the college division and way corps program.
WOWs---> new recruits ---> more WOWs ---> corps ---> cash ---> campuses ---> strategic power
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WordWolf
For those of you who may be unclear on the point, I'd like to spell it out for you.
Go dig out your "Heart of the Way Corps" tape set.
IIRC, that's 7 tapes. 2 of them have vpw speaking. Play them both, and listen when he speaks
about LEAD. If you're falling asleep, start paying attention when he says
"You're going to hitchhike to LEAD even if you NEVER make it."
In a few minutes, he gets to the part where he addresses the danger of being raped hitchhiking to LEAD.
"Well, you could be raped here in the Green Valley...."
vpw makes it clear that- because one could POTENTIALLY be raped ANYWHERE,
he sees no point in reducing the instructions that maximize the risk of being raped.
Despite knowing-and addressing-that forcing them to hitchhike was a voluntary risk factor
that led directly to some women being raped, vpw was determined to continue the practice,
no matter HOW many of you it hurt.
After all, it's not like he CARED about any of you. If a few wows or corps got raped or killed,
well, there will be more of them next year. Just make sure "the ministry be not blamed"
and move on. Let's never discuss the ministry SHOULD have been blamed because it had hazardous
policies, just don't blame it anyway.
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T-Bone
other than the death of someone [which would be extremely difficult to cover -up of course] - i hate to say this but there may be a few more horror stories [rapes, sexual molestations and such] that we haven't heard about simply because they went unreported out of shame or fear by the victim.
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skyrider
Shocking, absolutely shocking......that twi would whitewash their sins!
Wonder if the '60s folk never heard of the '50s stuff...
Wonder if the '70s folk never heard of the '60s stuff...
Wonder if the '80s folk never heard of the '70s stuff...
etc.
And then along came Jones.....the internet.
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waysider
I hitch hiked a lot in the '60s and saw first hand how dangerous it can be. I had a few close calls myself. So, it didn't really surprise me too much to learn of some of the tragedies that happened in TWI. What surprised me, or rather, disgusted me, was to learn how unconcerned upper management was with the whole issue of safety. When terrible things happened and were brought to their attention, they plowed ahead with their ill conceived programs, undaunted by reality.
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OldSkool
So did Victor Paul Wierwille ever go hitch hiking cross country? Or just bind that burden on other's shoulders?
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Broken Arrow
I understand that in the 40's & 50's hitch hiking was fairly common, especially if one was a returning veteran. Things started getting nastier when more and more people started driving. Hitching is wrong on so many fronts. For one thing one is "mooching" from another. When I did it on my LEAD tours, we weren't treated very well by people. I recall being run out of truck stops just because I was hitch hiking. Hitching was a miserable experience for me. The thing is, thumbing did not even really need to be a part of the program. The point was to challenge people, right? Well, there are a lot of other, more effective ways of doing that especially in a wilderness setting. It would not have been that expensive to run a mini-bus back and forth to Tinney. Even if it were, wouldn't the safety factor been worth the cost? Naw, Waysider's right, they didn't give a hoot about the people. I've often wondered if VP didn't get some kind of thrill out of it.
No, but then he wishes here were the man he knew to be.
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excathedra
ken barden died (7th corps) hitching to lead
toppie (10th corps) got raped (and still has not recovered) hitching to lead
then we have the 11th corps, i believe, bus accident -- remember rochelle?
i mean, come on, did they give one flying f about these wonderful people?
it's too sad for words
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waysider
7th corps, 10th corps, 11th corps---Do you see where I'm going with this? That's 5 corps years right there. Where was this great "spiritual awareness" they claimed to have? They watched it happen for five years (at least) and still didn't see the handwriting on the wall? More like they saw it and just didn't care. It doesn't take one ounce of "spiritual perception" to understand the severity of what was going on . It just required a little common sense and compassion. I don't think they had either----especially the latter of the two.
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Broken Arrow
It's sad indeed. It was a stupid idea to start with but when someone actually died, that should have been a wake up call. Remember the 5th Corps guy that was doing the "cleanse" and left HQ grounds one day to buy cookies and was killed in a car accident? From what I remember, they did away with The Colon Cleanse for that very reason. Yet when it came to L.E.A.D. they didn't have the sense to cancel the hitch hiking. Go figure.
The incident in the 11th Corps was when they were transporting the L.E.A.D. participants to the road after a session. People were riding in the back of a pick up which was also pulling a trailer. The truck got hit by a crosswind and went off the road spilling people as it went plus I believe the trailer struck some people. Again, young people deliberately put in peril. One is not supposed to ride in the back of a pick-up unrestrained for obvious reasons. Yet, TWI did not alter their program one bit. Probably blamed it on the believing of the participants.
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OldSkool
I'm sorry to digress. I mean they missed the revelation? I had to miss a witnessing day with local way disciples on Saturday because I sprained my ankle badly playing soccer with my fellowship coordinator's kids the previous evening. I was reproved strongly for missing the revelation because "God would have told me" how to avoid this "attack" before such a spiritually significant event as witnessing with way disciples! I mean look at the learning that was stolen from me.
But yet people died and were raped hitch hiking during LEAD?
How did I ever become involved with these mental midgets? (rhetorical - please spare me the answers
)
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Twinky
I never knew about the LEAD assaults until I read it here. My Corps didn't get to go, so not sure what the plans would have been. Probably to hitch.
What we were asked to do was to hitch to cities where we were to be Lightbearers. The only instructions we got were not to accept lifts in the open backs of vehicles - you know, a work utility vehicle with cab for driver and usually one passenger, and an open back where equipment could be carried. We were given a deadline to be at the venue.
We were not given any kind of map either of the states or cities we might pass through, or of the city we were going to. Just an address. Nuts, huh? If you're hitching, you at least want to know if you're being carried in the right direction.
Nah. We were to believe God for the right lifts where we could witness to drivers, believe God that the drivers would also take it into their hearts to buy us meals at truckstops (though I think we might have been given a sack lunch to take with us, can't recall), believe God for our safe and speedy journey. I believe we were taken out by bus or some such to a suitable hitching spot (ie, we didn't start from outside TWI's gate).
If we got to the destination late (or too near the appointed time) we had to examine ourselves to see where our believing had broken down, such that it was so difficult for us to get the right lifts.
Actually I quite liked it. I trusted them to know what they were doing (more fool me) and overcame my qualms because they wouldn't let us do anything foolish, would they? Like firearms safety training, it was to help us overcome our fears.
I still hitch occasionally (just short distances) and also occasionally offer others lifts. It's easier to do this in some countries than others.
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GeorgeStGeorge
So, what's the problem? You just Google-map it on your Blackberry, and off you go!
Oh, wait...this was WHEN?
George
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Broken Arrow
It was the 80's. Those stone tablets were too heavy to carry in our backpacks.
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