If charges were filed, someone could do a FOIA request and get copies of all the court documents. Of course, they would need to know which court to look in . . . .
according to the site linked on the first page, the sentencing was postponed. Unfortunately they are not letting us into that part of the site to learn the details.
Supposedly the case was in Castle Rock, Colorado, I am assuming that means the 18th Judicial District Court there.
All I see is he pleaded guilty...to fraud or deceit. Sounds unpleasantly serious.
I did find this: "With a felony conviction comes a substantial penalty. Class 3 felonies can be punished by incarceration in state prison for anywhere from 2-10 years. Convicted felons can also face fines of as much as $10,000. A person convicted of a non-violent Class 3 felony may not be sentenced to prison at all. He may get a shorter sentence in a county jail or even a long probation sentence."
I had to check out what "class 3 felony" means. How interesting that Wikipedia notes: "The reform of harsh felony laws that had originated in Great Britain was deemed "one of the first fruits of liberty" after the United States became independent." Whereas nowadays the harsh laws of the US are scary and outrageous by Brit standards...but that's another thread.
Suffice to say - he knew better...what a conman. Learned well.
All I see is he pleaded guilty...to fraud or deceit. Sounds unpleasantly serious.
I did find this: "With a felony conviction comes a substantial penalty. Class 3 felonies can be punished by incarceration in state prison for anywhere from 2-10 years. Convicted felons can also face fines of as much as $10,000. A person convicted of a non-violent Class 3 felony may not be sentenced to prison at all. He may get a shorter sentence in a county jail or even a long probation sentence."
I had to check out what "class 3 felony" means. How interesting that Wikipedia notes: "The reform of harsh felony laws that had originated in Great Britain was deemed "one of the first fruits of liberty" after the United States became independent." Whereas nowadays the harsh laws of the US are scary and outrageous by Brit standards...but that's another thread.
Suffice to say - he knew better...what a conman. Learned well.
part of his plea is to repay the money that he bilked. I'm hoping to have court docs soon.
Class three is usally the lesser class of felonies. However, copping to a felony is a major life altering event. I did a little digging and this following link explains it better than I could.
Good gried, OS, that's outrageous. How long do all those penalties lasdt? How long till someone can vote again, receive Federal aid, etc.? Surely these things are time-limited, though the article doesn't say so. The US doesn't seem very good at rehabilitating people back into society, but surely punishment doesn't go on...and on...and on.
Good gried, OS, that's outrageous. How long do all those penalties lasdt? How long till someone can vote again, receive Federal aid, etc.? Surely these things are time-limited, though the article doesn't say so. The US doesn't seem very good at rehabilitating people back into society, but surely punishment doesn't go on...and on...and on.
They key word in that link is MAY. Doesn't mean it will happen - the implementation of the MAY part is dependent upon a number of factors, including what you were convicted of, whether or not it was a first offence, etc. etc.
Under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, in the UK convictions are "spent" after a period of time (around 10 years) and don't need to be disclosed unless specifically required to be disclosed on, for example, job applications. It means people are not punished in perpetuity and there is an incentive to "stay straight" and clear (to some extent) one's name. A reduction in recidivism (repeat offending) has got to be good for society. The conviction is not deleted from one's criminal record - it just doesn't have to be disclosed to all and sundry, and cannot be referred to in most contexts.
Got to be good if you were a stupid young man or had a rotten beginning and have cleaned your act up. If someone screws up their late teens or 20s by being a bit of a hell-raiser but by the time they've got to their 30s or 40s and have learned a bit of responsibility, why should they continue to be treated like a 20 year old hell-raiser?
I do support that idea and think we in the United States would benefit from finding ways to apply it. I think there are many circumstances that it would work and would be beneficial for everyone.
Under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, in the UK convictions are "spent" after a period of time (around 10 years) and don't need to be disclosed unless specifically required to be disclosed on, for example, job applications. It means people are not punished in perpetuity and there is an incentive to "stay straight" and clear (to some extent) one's name. A reduction in recidivism (repeat offending) has got to be good for society. The conviction is not deleted from one's criminal record - it just doesn't have to be disclosed to all and sundry, and cannot be referred to in most contexts.
Got to be good if you were a stupid young man or had a rotten beginning and have cleaned your act up. If someone screws up their late teens or 20s by being a bit of a hell-raiser but by the time they've got to their 30s or 40s and have learned a bit of responsibility, why should they continue to be treated like a 20 year old hell-raiser?
Other countries also have much more rehabilitative schemes. Restorative justice, restoration of offenders, and all that stuff.
This really ought to be a separate topic....oops.
I just was curious to see if you had anything to back up your previous statement about the U.S. not being good at rehabilitation. Your response was more about what you feel is a fallacy in the U.S. justice system of which I agree. Nevertheless, I don't think anybody is very effective at rehabilitation, meaning permanently altering one's behavior into that of a law-abiding citizen. You're right, any further discussion about this should be on a separate thread.
I do support that idea and think we in the United States would benefit from finding ways to apply it. I think there are many circumstances that it would work and would be beneficial for everyone.
I know that in the U.S. a person may have their record "expunged". I don't know what the criteria is, however.
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pawtucket
What does it have to do with TWI? Wayfers in Colorado have been interviewed and put on probation (Mark and Avoid), if they knew anything about this investment scheme. Now why would twi do that?
So_crates
The little elf--like most nuns she's five foot nothing--that keeps thumping the back of my head with a ruler and says "That makes no sense." I've tried to tell her "it makes perfect sense, your not k
Kathy Niclaus
Well well well. The topic of Hirschfeld came to mind earlier today after an acrimonious exchange with a former WC17 member and Gunnison staffer on someone's FB wall. Upon reviewing the vitriolic ex- W
Abigail
If charges were filed, someone could do a FOIA request and get copies of all the court documents. Of course, they would need to know which court to look in . . . .
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Modgellan
according to the site linked on the first page, the sentencing was postponed. Unfortunately they are not letting us into that part of the site to learn the details.
Supposedly the case was in Castle Rock, Colorado, I am assuming that means the 18th Judicial District Court there.
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OldSkool
bump
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pawtucket
The charges against him were the following:
1
03/01/2007
Charges: Securities-make Untrue Statement
Status: Main Charge
Statute: 11-51-501(1)(b)
Class: F3 (Class 3 Felony)
Offense Date From: 03/01/2007
Offense Date To: 12/12/2008
BAC: 0.000
Plea Date: 01/11/2011
Plea: Plea of Guilty
2
03/01/2007
Charges: Securities-fraud Or Deceit
Status: Main Charge
Statute: 11-51-501(1)©
Class: F3 (Class 3 Felony)
Offense Date From: 03/01/2007
Offense Date To: 12/12/2008
BAC: 0.000
Plea Date: 01/11/2011
Plea: Plea of Guilty
The sentencing was to occur on 3/17/11, but has been postponed until 6/1/11
I would like anyone with any additional and pertinent info, to contact me via email, pawtucket@greasespotcafe.com
Thanks
More to come
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OldSkool
Ouch, 3rd degree felonies. That kid really messed up his immediate future.
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Twinky
Explain class 3 felony please.
All I see is he pleaded guilty...to fraud or deceit. Sounds unpleasantly serious.
I did find this: "With a felony conviction comes a substantial penalty. Class 3 felonies can be punished by incarceration in state prison for anywhere from 2-10 years. Convicted felons can also face fines of as much as $10,000. A person convicted of a non-violent Class 3 felony may not be sentenced to prison at all. He may get a shorter sentence in a county jail or even a long probation sentence."
I had to check out what "class 3 felony" means. How interesting that Wikipedia notes: "The reform of harsh felony laws that had originated in Great Britain was deemed "one of the first fruits of liberty" after the United States became independent." Whereas nowadays the harsh laws of the US are scary and outrageous by Brit standards...but that's another thread.
Suffice to say - he knew better...what a conman. Learned well.
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pawtucket
part of his plea is to repay the money that he bilked. I'm hoping to have court docs soon.
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OldSkool
Class three is usally the lesser class of felonies. However, copping to a felony is a major life altering event. I did a little digging and this following link explains it better than I could.
http://www.criminalinfonetwork.com/pleading-guilty.htm
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bliss
Apparently after a long Headquarters shindig last weekend, no one really missed half of the Way of Colorado!
Seems nobody noticed, or cared.
One comment was '' oh, they left the ministry? That's too bad, I really loved them."
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek.
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Twinky
Good gried, OS, that's outrageous. How long do all those penalties lasdt? How long till someone can vote again, receive Federal aid, etc.? Surely these things are time-limited, though the article doesn't say so. The US doesn't seem very good at rehabilitating people back into society, but surely punishment doesn't go on...and on...and on.
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OldSkool
convicted felon = marked for life, unless records are expunged.
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modbaker
They key word in that link is MAY. Doesn't mean it will happen - the implementation of the MAY part is dependent upon a number of factors, including what you were convicted of, whether or not it was a first offence, etc. etc.
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Broken Arrow
Granted. Now, what country is good at rehabilitating people back into society?
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Twinky
Under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, in the UK convictions are "spent" after a period of time (around 10 years) and don't need to be disclosed unless specifically required to be disclosed on, for example, job applications. It means people are not punished in perpetuity and there is an incentive to "stay straight" and clear (to some extent) one's name. A reduction in recidivism (repeat offending) has got to be good for society. The conviction is not deleted from one's criminal record - it just doesn't have to be disclosed to all and sundry, and cannot be referred to in most contexts.
Got to be good if you were a stupid young man or had a rotten beginning and have cleaned your act up. If someone screws up their late teens or 20s by being a bit of a hell-raiser but by the time they've got to their 30s or 40s and have learned a bit of responsibility, why should they continue to be treated like a 20 year old hell-raiser?
Anyway, FYI here's a link to an easy-read website: Rehabilitation of Offenders - spent convictions
Other countries also have much more rehabilitative schemes. Restorative justice, restoration of offenders, and all that stuff.
This really ought to be a separate topic....oops.
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socks
Innnneresting Twinky.
I do support that idea and think we in the United States would benefit from finding ways to apply it. I think there are many circumstances that it would work and would be beneficial for everyone.
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Broken Arrow
I just was curious to see if you had anything to back up your previous statement about the U.S. not being good at rehabilitation. Your response was more about what you feel is a fallacy in the U.S. justice system of which I agree. Nevertheless, I don't think anybody is very effective at rehabilitation, meaning permanently altering one's behavior into that of a law-abiding citizen. You're right, any further discussion about this should be on a separate thread.
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Broken Arrow
Double-posted.
I know that in the U.S. a person may have their record "expunged". I don't know what the criteria is, however.
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OldSkool
Usually relevant to a plea deal, offenders age (think juvenile offenders,) offense, etc.
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socks
It's not easy. http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/expungement/expungement-state-info.html
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OldSkool
Nope. I doubt Mr. Hirschfeld will not be able to pull it off.
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Ham
It looks like one has to pay ALL court costs, fines, and restitution to even begin the procedure..
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pawtucket
I will be putting some court docs up in the next week about the case.
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pawtucket
I've posted an article called, The Hirschfeld Trail. It shows where the money went.
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Ham
From your article:
The name is quite fitting, isn't it.
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