I had speculated earlier that the way international's involvement was predicated by Donna Martindale's sister and brother in-law being one of the bilked investors - sounds like my speculation may be correct?
When I read threads like this, my mind keeps asking the questions....
1) Hello? Where is that spiritual perception again?
2) Why does twi leadership always show up AFTER the fact?
3) Kinda smacks to be deceived, doesn't it?
Some of us gave over two decades of our lives to twi. We were deceived....and twi was the BENEFICIARY of the deception, our labor and financial giving. Okay, maybe donna's sister lost thousands!!........big deal.
he was in the class of '04 but then one wonders if he is really 23 now. I am guessing perhaps that age, cited, was a few years ago when the investor first did business with him. He donated a whopping $125-$249 in 2009
Other searches for him show up in the Florida area also in the financial services field, from 2005 to 2007:
This site links Hirschfeld with Carrington Fisk (I don't know who that is) and also Phyllis Giles
Clearwater LLC started in 2005 no longer active
Hirschfeld & Lynch (Adam H and Daniel LYnch partners)- Clearwater FL started in 2005, no longer active.
HF Capital (Pylliss Giles registered agent) started in 2007, no longer active
Adam E. Hirschfeld's current company appears to be VRH Capital. VRH are the initials of his wife, Victoria Ruth Hirschfeld. The company has an address in Castle Rock, CO (VRH1) and in New Bremen, OH (VRH2)
Ron St. John, Vice President and Director
Mr. St. John has over 35 years of experience in field operations in the drilling and
production of oil and natural gas wells and produced water disposal in Texas,
Twi involvement goes deeper than just Donna Martindale's sister...
Appears that other twi leaders are involved?
Phyllis Giles (7th corps)... is the wife of Rev. P@aul Gil3s (6th corps)
HF Capital registered agent? Was? Is? Got out? Questions? Questions?
who else?
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, But the G1les daughter is married to Adam. Their other daughter is involved somehow, not sure who she is married to.
People Find gives Adam E. Hirschfeld's age as 28. Victoria as 26
I think it is strange that the address for VRH Capital is owned by someone else, and has been since the duplex was built in 2004. Maybe they followed TWI doctrine of not having a mortgage? They are not listed as owning any property in Castle Rock, CO at this time.
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, But the G1les daughter is married to Adam. Their other daughter is involved somehow, not sure who she is married to.
So.....G1les daughter, wife of Adam Hirschfeld, is inter-twined in this fraud.
.......other daughter is involved somehow as well?
.......mother, Phyl G!les, was/is a registered agent for the investment company?
.......and Donna Martindale's sister and brother-in-law got bilked with other investors?
Uh, yeah.......twi is involved in this one!
The cell phones are a-buzzing and it ain't small talk chit-chat.
Where is that song?...."pants on the ground, pants on the ground"
He graduated from Bowling Green?, the same Bowling Green that has been linked to the offspring of other Way leaders?
I wonder where his tuition came from. <_<
Where all the other good little cultist offspring's tuition came from? ABS + Pell Grants (i.e. your tithe + your taxes). And look what a great education too! He learned how to continue to bilk people out of money.
Now's a great time for OldSkool's Rico quote:
"I believe that God provided welfare so believers wouldn't have to go in debt".
And HQ is masterful at paying their staff at less than 200% of the federal poverty level. That way when health problems arise they can run out their lifetime max on their lame insurance plan and then sign up for Ohio Medicaid. Hell, Gary Frederick will walk you right through the process just to make sure you dot your i-s and cross your t-s. Wouldn't want you to accumulate debt, they would have to terminate you at that point!
College? Get good grades, volunteer for dorm steward, and apply for as many pell grants as your ink allows. No worries, your staff parents meager salary will more than qualify you for free money from Uncle Sam. Oh - why not call it God's abundance?
Now we have decent people, who happen to be rank and file followers of the way international or lowly branch coordinators in Grand Junction, who are money starved due to the debt policy, staff salary, and/or from giving too much ABS. These poor slobs are bilked by a savvy little ..... Pffft, the average follower of the way international lives so far below par they are prime targets for people like this. The crooks can hide under the "think no evil" bologna, promise great returns, and run to the bank with pockets full of ill-gotten gains. The way international will always be full of suckers because TWI already has primed their followers to accept being ripped off in the name of God.
Then Rosie and Donna rouse the calvary to come to the "believer's" aid!
Pass the popcorn please. We have an excellent show.
Does a staffer have the ability to make up this difference in cash (No debt policy, remember?)
No, they get scholarships, pell grants, and anything else they can muster. I have heard many a proud way corps staff parent brag on their kid's free ride through college as God's abundance.
No, they get scholarships, pell grants, and anything else they can muster. I have heard many a proud way corps staff parent brag on their kid's free ride through college as God's abundance.
Nothing wrong with grants and scholarships. I'm just wondering where "the balance" comes from. I mean, surely, no one has ever dipped into the ABS till to make up the difference, have they? The IRS would surely frown on such a thing.
I find it ironic that they brag on their masterful command of the law of believing, that brings them a limitless supply of abundance and meanwhile they tap into every resource they can find that is set aside for the poor.
"I find it ironic that they brag on their masterful command of the law of believing, that brings them a limitless supply of abundance and meanwhile they tap into every resource they can find that is set aside for the poor."
This just in - a wikipedia source quoted but all PELL documentation uses similar language:
"Because Pell Grants are targeted toward students from low-income families, recipients are often used by researchers to count low-income students and to indicate the economic diversity of the student body."
Apparently for Wayfers God meets your needs through the grants and taxes given and paid by others (the Way's income is tax-exempt and I doubt any paid staff family contributes much to the federal tax fund yearly) All that filthy unbelieving lucre for the taking, it must be hard to say no.
I agree that there's nothing wrong with using grants and federally funded programs. I believe the assumption is that those who benefit early will pay into the system that gave them a leg up, later.
Nothing's free, someone somewhere is always paying. The middle class earners and payers have been continuously and methodically priced out of most of these programs - once your income hits a bracket and you're doing "well", many if not all of these programs become well out of your reach. Meanwhile COL goes up and up and income's become flatter and flatter.
"Abundance"? If a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat so goes the saying. Apply that principle to tax funded grants, gifts and scholarships and the result is easy to see - if you're not contributing and you don't intend to and disrespect the source of of the goodies, keep your hand out of the cookie jar.
Law of Believing? I'd expect they'd be rolling in abundance with 3 chickens for every pot - one to eat, one to save and one to give away. Instead they seem to be scrounging for giveaways. Doesn't make sense. Doesn't anyone work, earn salaries, save money, hire employees, share with others, plan for a moderately wet if not rainy day?
In Way World someone else is always paying. For everything. Every slice of bread, gallon of gas and mouthful of breakfast lunch and dinner, the oven that it cooks on and the roof that keeps the snow off their heads while they sleep on a full tummy.
So yeah....they may be no more hypocritical than any other gang of freeloaders but they should at least have the dignity to not celebrate it.
The Way could have pursued any number of financial options over the years to benefit their employees as well as their members.
They just don't give a s--t, it's plain as the nose they bit off to spite their face.
So the ironic part of this is that the middle class suckers in TWI who send in their ABS faithfully are usually above the income levels for their kids to qualify for Pell Grants. They also have a greater tax burden. They are paying twice - tax + ABS.
So the suckers pay double for all the Staff people's kids to go to college debt free, while their own children need to incur debt to go to college.
Rico again?
"I believe that God provided welfare so believers wouldn't have to go in debt".
Close, Rico, close. God must have provided welfare so YOUR kids can go to college without debt. However, that doesn't seem to extend to the abundant sharing minions. Donna's kids got their education, right? Doesn't Leah have a Masters degree? Isn't it nice that you can conveniently explain away a God that helps those who help themselves to others' $$$ ?
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the breeding ground that produces stories like Adam Hirschfeld.
This is the type of thing you see in dictatorial regimes in 3rd world countries. For example, in Iran, the leaders in government lavish in luxury, while the average citizen dies in a plane crash because of lack of money to do routine maintenance on Boeing airplanes.
Or the rice to feed the poor in Africa shared from abundant countries rotting on loading docks because the heavy-handedness of the regime preventing it from getting to where it is needed.
But there's lots of dik heads like this guy pushing get-rich investment schemes.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
The Way itself has squandered the investment of the most important resource they had - their people. The actual lives, intelligence and committment of the real living human beings who built the place.
Who would possibly think they could influence any honorable or sustainable investment of anything else?
But there's lots of dik heads like this guy pushing get-rich investment schemes.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
The Way itself has squandered the investment of the most important resource they had - their people. The actual lives, intelligence and committment of the real living human beings who built the place.
Who would possibly think they could influence any honorable or sustainable investment of anything else?
Alex: The Singing Ladies
Contestant: Who would possibly think they could influence any honorable or sustainable investment of anything else?
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pawtucket
What does it have to do with TWI? Wayfers in Colorado have been interviewed and put on probation (Mark and Avoid), if they knew anything about this investment scheme. Now why would twi do that?
So_crates
The little elf--like most nuns she's five foot nothing--that keeps thumping the back of my head with a ruler and says "That makes no sense." I've tried to tell her "it makes perfect sense, your not k
Kathy Niclaus
Well well well. The topic of Hirschfeld came to mind earlier today after an acrimonious exchange with a former WC17 member and Gunnison staffer on someone's FB wall. Upon reviewing the vitriolic ex- W
So_crates
Anybody recognize any of the below names?
They're posted on the Adam Hirschfeld site's registration page thus:
SoCrates
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Ham
What I find interesting.. the "kid" is so young. So young.. seems to have a car collection..
he's what.. 23 years old? Or so it seems. Graduated from high school in 2007?
How did he end up in Colorado?
Did he have a college degree?
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skyrider
When I read threads like this, my mind keeps asking the questions....
1) Hello? Where is that spiritual perception again?
2) Why does twi leadership always show up AFTER the fact?
3) Kinda smacks to be deceived, doesn't it?
Some of us gave over two decades of our lives to twi. We were deceived....and twi was the BENEFICIARY of the deception, our labor and financial giving. Okay, maybe donna's sister lost thousands!!........big deal.
What if some of us detailed OUR losses.......???
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Modgellan
SOURCE: http://www.resilient...2020%202009.pdf
According to this http://falconalumni....n_annreport.pdf
he was in the class of '04 but then one wonders if he is really 23 now. I am guessing perhaps that age, cited, was a few years ago when the investor first did business with him. He donated a whopping $125-$249 in 2009
Other searches for him show up in the Florida area also in the financial services field, from 2005 to 2007:
Corporation Wiki- http://www.corporati...sk-P200489.aspx
This site links Hirschfeld with Carrington Fisk (I don't know who that is) and also Phyllis Giles
Clearwater LLC started in 2005 no longer active
Hirschfeld & Lynch (Adam H and Daniel LYnch partners)- Clearwater FL started in 2005, no longer active.
HF Capital (Pylliss Giles registered agent) started in 2007, no longer active
Adam E. Hirschfeld's current company appears to be VRH Capital. VRH are the initials of his wife, Victoria Ruth Hirschfeld. The company has an address in Castle Rock, CO (VRH1) and in New Bremen, OH (VRH2)
Ron St. John, Vice President and Director
Mr. St. John has over 35 years of experience in field operations in the drilling and
production of oil and natural gas wells and produced water disposal in Texas,
New Mexico, Wyoming, and Montana.
SOURCE: http://www.resilient...2020%202009.pdf
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Ham
Well.. would it it an honest assessment to say that he is ruined? At least in the sense of ever handling anybody else s money again..
and I would assume he is going to spend quite a stay in prison.. probably won't be a country club either..
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skyrider
Twi involvement goes deeper than just Donna Martindale's sister...
Appears that other twi leaders are involved?
Phyllis Giles (7th corps)... is the wife of Rev. P@aul Gil3s (6th corps)
HF Capital registered agent? Was? Is? Got out? Questions? Questions?
who else?
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pawtucket
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, But the G1les daughter is married to Adam. Their other daughter is involved somehow, not sure who she is married to.
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Modgellan
People Find gives Adam E. Hirschfeld's age as 28. Victoria as 26
I think it is strange that the address for VRH Capital is owned by someone else, and has been since the duplex was built in 2004. Maybe they followed TWI doctrine of not having a mortgage? They are not listed as owning any property in Castle Rock, CO at this time.
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skyrider
So.....G1les daughter, wife of Adam Hirschfeld, is inter-twined in this fraud.
.......other daughter is involved somehow as well?
.......mother, Phyl G!les, was/is a registered agent for the investment company?
.......and Donna Martindale's sister and brother-in-law got bilked with other investors?
Uh, yeah.......twi is involved in this one!
The cell phones are a-buzzing and it ain't small talk chit-chat.
Where is that song?...."pants on the ground, pants on the ground"
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waysider
He graduated from Bowling Green?, the same Bowling Green that has been linked to the offspring of other Way leaders?
I wonder where his tuition came from. <_<
I sure hope it didn't come from funds that were meant for 501c purposes. That would be embarrassing.
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chockfull
Where all the other good little cultist offspring's tuition came from? ABS + Pell Grants (i.e. your tithe + your taxes). And look what a great education too! He learned how to continue to bilk people out of money.
Now's a great time for OldSkool's Rico quote:
"I believe that God provided welfare so believers wouldn't have to go in debt".
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OldSkool
This episode is developing nicely.
And HQ is masterful at paying their staff at less than 200% of the federal poverty level. That way when health problems arise they can run out their lifetime max on their lame insurance plan and then sign up for Ohio Medicaid. Hell, Gary Frederick will walk you right through the process just to make sure you dot your i-s and cross your t-s. Wouldn't want you to accumulate debt, they would have to terminate you at that point!
College? Get good grades, volunteer for dorm steward, and apply for as many pell grants as your ink allows. No worries, your staff parents meager salary will more than qualify you for free money from Uncle Sam. Oh - why not call it God's abundance?
Now we have decent people, who happen to be rank and file followers of the way international or lowly branch coordinators in Grand Junction, who are money starved due to the debt policy, staff salary, and/or from giving too much ABS. These poor slobs are bilked by a savvy little ..... Pffft, the average follower of the way international lives so far below par they are prime targets for people like this. The crooks can hide under the "think no evil" bologna, promise great returns, and run to the bank with pockets full of ill-gotten gains. The way international will always be full of suckers because TWI already has primed their followers to accept being ripped off in the name of God.
Then Rosie and Donna rouse the calvary to come to the "believer's" aid!
Pass the popcorn please. We have an excellent show.
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waysider
20,814..... annual tuition, etc.
-5550......Pell grant
----------
15,264
Does a staffer have the ability to make up this difference in cash (No debt policy, remember?)
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OldSkool
No, they get scholarships, pell grants, and anything else they can muster. I have heard many a proud way corps staff parent brag on their kid's free ride through college as God's abundance.
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waysider
Nothing wrong with grants and scholarships. I'm just wondering where "the balance" comes from. I mean, surely, no one has ever dipped into the ABS till to make up the difference, have they? The IRS would surely frown on such a thing.
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OldSkool
I find it ironic that they brag on their masterful command of the law of believing, that brings them a limitless supply of abundance and meanwhile they tap into every resource they can find that is set aside for the poor.
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waysider
Maybe they should reconsider their stance on bake sales and car washes.
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OldSkool
At least it would be honest and not taking away from people who are poor by no fault of their own.
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waysider
CMA tuition
Some serious coinage.
How does one graduate from CMA and qualify for a Pell grant?
(If, in fact, he ever received such a grant.)
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socks
"I find it ironic that they brag on their masterful command of the law of believing, that brings them a limitless supply of abundance and meanwhile they tap into every resource they can find that is set aside for the poor."
This just in - a wikipedia source quoted but all PELL documentation uses similar language:
"Because Pell Grants are targeted toward students from low-income families, recipients are often used by researchers to count low-income students and to indicate the economic diversity of the student body."
Apparently for Wayfers God meets your needs through the grants and taxes given and paid by others (the Way's income is tax-exempt and I doubt any paid staff family contributes much to the federal tax fund yearly) All that filthy unbelieving lucre for the taking, it must be hard to say no.
I agree that there's nothing wrong with using grants and federally funded programs. I believe the assumption is that those who benefit early will pay into the system that gave them a leg up, later.
Nothing's free, someone somewhere is always paying. The middle class earners and payers have been continuously and methodically priced out of most of these programs - once your income hits a bracket and you're doing "well", many if not all of these programs become well out of your reach. Meanwhile COL goes up and up and income's become flatter and flatter.
"Abundance"? If a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat so goes the saying. Apply that principle to tax funded grants, gifts and scholarships and the result is easy to see - if you're not contributing and you don't intend to and disrespect the source of of the goodies, keep your hand out of the cookie jar.
Law of Believing? I'd expect they'd be rolling in abundance with 3 chickens for every pot - one to eat, one to save and one to give away. Instead they seem to be scrounging for giveaways. Doesn't make sense. Doesn't anyone work, earn salaries, save money, hire employees, share with others, plan for a moderately wet if not rainy day?
In Way World someone else is always paying. For everything. Every slice of bread, gallon of gas and mouthful of breakfast lunch and dinner, the oven that it cooks on and the roof that keeps the snow off their heads while they sleep on a full tummy.
So yeah....they may be no more hypocritical than any other gang of freeloaders but they should at least have the dignity to not celebrate it.
The Way could have pursued any number of financial options over the years to benefit their employees as well as their members.
They just don't give a s--t, it's plain as the nose they bit off to spite their face.
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chockfull
So the ironic part of this is that the middle class suckers in TWI who send in their ABS faithfully are usually above the income levels for their kids to qualify for Pell Grants. They also have a greater tax burden. They are paying twice - tax + ABS.
So the suckers pay double for all the Staff people's kids to go to college debt free, while their own children need to incur debt to go to college.
Rico again?
"I believe that God provided welfare so believers wouldn't have to go in debt".
Close, Rico, close. God must have provided welfare so YOUR kids can go to college without debt. However, that doesn't seem to extend to the abundant sharing minions. Donna's kids got their education, right? Doesn't Leah have a Masters degree? Isn't it nice that you can conveniently explain away a God that helps those who help themselves to others' $$$ ?
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the breeding ground that produces stories like Adam Hirschfeld.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the type of thing you see in dictatorial regimes in 3rd world countries. For example, in Iran, the leaders in government lavish in luxury, while the average citizen dies in a plane crash because of lack of money to do routine maintenance on Boeing airplanes.
Or the rice to feed the poor in Africa shared from abundant countries rotting on loading docks because the heavy-handedness of the regime preventing it from getting to where it is needed.
Yes, by their fruits ye shall know them.
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socks
But there's lots of dik heads like this guy pushing get-rich investment schemes.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
The Way itself has squandered the investment of the most important resource they had - their people. The actual lives, intelligence and committment of the real living human beings who built the place.
Who would possibly think they could influence any honorable or sustainable investment of anything else?
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waysider
Alex: The Singing Ladies
Contestant: Who would possibly think they could influence any honorable or sustainable investment of anything else?
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OldSkool
Yep, and the way international, with it's poverty producing teachings, is fertile ground for these (and other) schemes.
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