A whole fellowship closed down, the one he was attending, they decided this was the "straw" so to speak. A now-former Colorado limb coordinator, m4rk w4ll4c3, left last year with little warning. So things have been brewing for some time. For some others, this was a perfect opportunity to sever the ties to twi, those who were apparently doing the "fade out" method of leaving anyway, if I had to guess.
Of course, plenty others there are gonna stay in twi no matter what.....
My oh my.....how the years fly by.
Years ago, a GS-poster gave detailed incidents in Ohio of m4rk w4ll4c3 and l4rry p4n4r3ll0 standing for the twi-doctrine in all its legalism. Now.......both have severed ties with twi.
Seems like sometimes....even the most staunch legalist finds the exit door!
What awakens them?......policy? structural politics? demoted position? less power?
Most are just looking out for themselves.....period.
Who would have thunk it? Using bible verses in a confidence scam. Where ever did he come up with that?
From a victims story..."He had all of the answers to our questions and the paperwork and numbers and names to back it up and the bible quotes were perfect. We were wined and dined and we gained his trust and friendship."
Love bombing and using bible verses while manipulating someone to get their money....oddly, this has a familiar ring to it.
The irony, to think of someone defrauding people while using scripture to assure them, might just be what causes TWI some serious pain.
how much of the marks ("believers") investment went into way coffers, in the form of "abundant sharing"?
Did they receive any of the stolen money?
Was that meant to be rhetorical?
We all know that, to be considered an active member of "the ministry", you have to give them at least 10-15% of your income. What better reason could there be than that to encourage members to involve themselves in an income increasing venture?
Sure blows the "spiritually clean money" concept out of the water.
SoCrates
Back in the 1970s, if you wanted to throw a branch picnic or BBQ, you weren't allowed to have a bake sale or car wash to defray the cost. Wouldn't want to portray the "ministry" as being needy and all that. My, how things have changed.
What about that pyramid cleaning products stuff? (Amway?) That was pretty ubiquitous. Some people required purchases to remain friends, and when I didn't buy the friendship was cut off.
And also the great revelation of "Steed"
Seems like business acumen, just like true holiness, was not a significant component of twi.
I have a lot of respect for the LDS people who teach their families and children good business practices and business ethics, which is what I believe Christians should do.
What about that pyramid cleaning products stuff? (Amway?) That was pretty ubiquitous. Some people required purchases to remain friends, and when I didn't buy the friendship was cut off.
And also the great revelation of "Steed"
Seems like business acumen, just like true holiness, was not a significant component of twi.
I have a lot of respect for the LDS people who teach their families and children good business practices and business ethics, which is what I believe Christians should do.
They didn't need to do anything about someone's behaviour. This is about money.
Umm, Paw? Did the BOD get suckered into this guy's scam? Back in the TWI heyday, they were even asking my husband, who had run a stamp and coin booth at a collectibles flea market in NYC, how to invest all the TWI dough, and whether they should get into the silver market. It might explain why they're M&A-ing everyone now.
Umm, Paw? Did the BOD get suckered into this guy's scam? Back in the TWI heyday, they were even asking my husband, who had run a stamp and coin booth at a collectibles flea market in NYC, how to invest all the TWI dough, and whether they should get into the silver market. It might explain why they're M&A-ing everyone now.
If I were to speculate a little, I know that D@ve and P@tti D3t3r$ were involved, who live in Grand Junction I think. P@tti is Donna Martindale's sister. Also, I understand that G@ry Fr3d3rick is involved. So if this is the case the scam hit very close to home. So it very well may be a case of Donna and Rosie using the ministry's control structure for revenge and CYA purposes.
If I were to speculate a little, I know that D@ve and P@tti D3t3r$ were involved, who live in Grand Junction I think. P@tti is Donna Martindale's sister. Also, I understand that G@ry Fr3d3rick is involved. So if this is the case the scam hit very close to home. So it very well may be a case of Donna and Rosie using the ministry's control structure for revenge and CYA purposes.
I've heard similar things, like thirdhand. P@tti called up Rosie. Rosie got directly involved and basically issued an edict stating that anyone involved was no longer welcome at a fellowship. "Involved" meant anyone knowing anything about it. The local state coordinator D@ve L1pp0ld handled things with the same stupid heavy-handedness, and now basically the D3t3r$ and one other fellowship are the only ones left in Colorado still with TWI besides L1pp0ld. M@rk W@ll@c3 went and filed for 501-c status and most likely will try to smooth talk his way into being another offshoot coordinator with as much influence as he can garner.
I've heard similar things, like thirdhand. P@tti called up Rosie. Rosie got directly involved and basically issued an edict stating that anyone involved was no longer welcome at a fellowship. "Involved" meant anyone knowing anything about it.
Just goes to show you that once you know who is who and how they operate, despite all their feeble attempts at confidentiality, the simpletons are not that difficult to figure out.
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pawtucket
What does it have to do with TWI? Wayfers in Colorado have been interviewed and put on probation (Mark and Avoid), if they knew anything about this investment scheme. Now why would twi do that?
So_crates
The little elf--like most nuns she's five foot nothing--that keeps thumping the back of my head with a ruler and says "That makes no sense." I've tried to tell her "it makes perfect sense, your not k
Kathy Niclaus
Well well well. The topic of Hirschfeld came to mind earlier today after an acrimonious exchange with a former WC17 member and Gunnison staffer on someone's FB wall. Upon reviewing the vitriolic ex- W
So_crates
Both links are from the same source.
SoCrates
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Ham
If you don't mind me asking.. who is Clarity?
must be somebody cool..
there is somebody here cool enough.. who I would edit for..
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So_crates
The little elf--like most nuns she's five foot nothing--that keeps thumping the back of my head with a ruler and says "That makes no sense."
I've tried to tell her "it makes perfect sense, your not keeping up," but all that usually earns me is a whack with her beads.
Sister Clara T.
SoCrates
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waysider
I wondered the same thing. Who is Clara T.?
Apparently, her editing skills are sub-par, whoever she is.
You know? 'cause So_crates has to come to her aid.
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Ham
God bless you friend..
Okay. The squirrel heads for another beer. That might not exactly be a good idea here..
Depends on what "job" needs dispatched.
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Broken Arrow
This is where I would insert a humorous comment of my own...if I could only think of one.
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skyrider
My oh my.....how the years fly by.
Years ago, a GS-poster gave detailed incidents in Ohio of m4rk w4ll4c3 and l4rry p4n4r3ll0 standing for the twi-doctrine in all its legalism. Now.......both have severed ties with twi.
Seems like sometimes....even the most staunch legalist finds the exit door!
What awakens them?......policy? structural politics? demoted position? less power?
Most are just looking out for themselves.....period.
Who really takes a stand for the "little guy?"
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OldSkool
Most times than not, the chickens come home to roost.
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geisha779
Who would have thunk it? Using bible verses in a confidence scam. Where ever did he come up with that?
From a victims story..."He had all of the answers to our questions and the paperwork and numbers and names to back it up and the bible quotes were perfect. We were wined and dined and we gained his trust and friendship."
Love bombing and using bible verses while manipulating someone to get their money....oddly, this has a familiar ring to it.
The irony, to think of someone defrauding people while using scripture to assure them, might just be what causes TWI some serious pain.
Yep...reality bites sometimes.
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Ham
especially when from one of "their own kind".
I'll bet the ADORED him before he got caught.
Next thought, for me..
how much of the marks ("believers") investment went into way coffers, in the form of "abundant sharing"?
Did they receive any of the stolen money?
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So_crates
That would be a reasonable safe bet. I mean TWI is losing most of CO for a reason. That suggests to me TWI is involved somehow.
SoCrates
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waysider
Was that meant to be rhetorical?
We all know that, to be considered an active member of "the ministry", you have to give them at least 10-15% of your income. What better reason could there be than that to encourage members to involve themselves in an income increasing venture?
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Ham
Hmm. Well, I will say this is a speculation on my part..
Wouldn't they have to give the money back?
I mean, it's kinda like receiving stolen property, isn't it?
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So_crates
Sure blows the "spiritually clean money" concept out of the water.
SoCrates
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waysider
Back in the 1970s, if you wanted to throw a branch picnic or BBQ, you weren't allowed to have a bake sale or car wash to defray the cost. Wouldn't want to portray the "ministry" as being needy and all that. My, how things have changed.
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Kit Sober
What about that pyramid cleaning products stuff? (Amway?) That was pretty ubiquitous. Some people required purchases to remain friends, and when I didn't buy the friendship was cut off.
And also the great revelation of "Steed"
Seems like business acumen, just like true holiness, was not a significant component of twi.
I have a lot of respect for the LDS people who teach their families and children good business practices and business ethics, which is what I believe Christians should do.
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waysider
I remember Steed.
Michael Fart and a couple of other (then to be) future "leaders" were involved with that one.
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George Aar
And this gets my nomination for "quote of the day", or possibly "understatement of the day" as well... :)
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shazdancer
Umm, Paw? Did the BOD get suckered into this guy's scam? Back in the TWI heyday, they were even asking my husband, who had run a stamp and coin booth at a collectibles flea market in NYC, how to invest all the TWI dough, and whether they should get into the silver market. It might explain why they're M&A-ing everyone now.
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pawtucket
I have not found anything linking them to this
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OldSkool
If I were to speculate a little, I know that D@ve and P@tti D3t3r$ were involved, who live in Grand Junction I think. P@tti is Donna Martindale's sister. Also, I understand that G@ry Fr3d3rick is involved. So if this is the case the scam hit very close to home. So it very well may be a case of Donna and Rosie using the ministry's control structure for revenge and CYA purposes.
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chockfull
I've heard similar things, like thirdhand. P@tti called up Rosie. Rosie got directly involved and basically issued an edict stating that anyone involved was no longer welcome at a fellowship. "Involved" meant anyone knowing anything about it. The local state coordinator D@ve L1pp0ld handled things with the same stupid heavy-handedness, and now basically the D3t3r$ and one other fellowship are the only ones left in Colorado still with TWI besides L1pp0ld. M@rk W@ll@c3 went and filed for 501-c status and most likely will try to smooth talk his way into being another offshoot coordinator with as much influence as he can garner.
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Ham
Makes perfect sense. gawd forbid he should work at a fast food assembly line or something..
what else can an ex-way sycophant actually DO?
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OldSkool
Just goes to show you that once you know who is who and how they operate, despite all their feeble attempts at confidentiality, the simpletons are not that difficult to figure out.
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