Actual

[waysider]

It occurred to me recently that many times when new people arrive here, they go straight to the forums and ignore the various materials on the home page. One such example is the piece on actual errors in PFAL.

So, rather than doing the usual "bump", I thought it might be interesting to start a fresh thread with a link to the article.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editorial/editorial-items/actual-errors-in-power-for-abundant-living.html

And the discussion it stirred.

Edited February 22, 2011 by waysider

[waysider]

I suppose a sub topic might be explored in trying to understand why some people feel compelled to ignore the rudamental information before participating.

[Broken Arrow]

I suppose a sub topic might be explored in trying to understand why some people feel compelled to ignore the rudamental information before participating.

Live people are more interesting maybe? I dunno, that's what I did. I was on the forums for awhile before I was felt like reading the posts in Actual Errors. If you're new, you look at all those posts on actual errors and go "ugh". Looks kind of tedious. That, and I thought I knew a lot of the errors anyway. Eventually I went over there to see what I could see.

[waysider]

I do want to make it clear that I don't necessarily think it's wrong to do that.

Speaking from my own experience, though, I found it necessary to read as much as I could before I really even knew what I wanted to say. I think I must have read and read and read for about a month before I ever posted. Heck, I even read the entire PooP paper----and lived to tell about it.

Edited February 22, 2011 by waysider

[waysider]

As I moved into looking at various thread discussions, one of the first ones I read was the L.E.A.D. thread. That was definitely an eye opener, to say the least.

[Broken Arrow]

As I moved into looking at various thread discussions, one of the first ones I read was the L.E.A.D. thread. That was definitely an eye opener, to say the least.

Hmm. That was one of the first one's I actually broke down and read too! I had the same reaction you did. I was in the Corps with those guys.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Broken Arrow

[T-Bone]

Live people are more interesting maybe? I dunno, that's what I did. I was on the forums for awhile before I was felt like reading the posts in Actual Errors. If you're new, you look at all those posts on actual errors and go "ugh". Looks kind of tedious. That, and I thought I knew a lot of the errors anyway. Eventually I went over there to see what I could see.

I do want to make it clear that I don't necessarily think it's wrong to do that.

Speaking from my own experience, though, I found it necessary to read as much as I could before I really even knew what I wanted to say. I think I must have read and read and read for about a month before I ever posted. Heck, I even read the entire PooP paper----and lived to tell about it.

As I moved into looking at various thread discussions, one of the first ones I read was the L.E.A.D. thread. That was definitely an eye opener, to say the least.

everyone processes things a little differently....but your posts got me thinking....or guessing....that maybe many folks experience more of a gut-retching eye-opener from reading an expose on the dynamics, practices, hierarchy, campus life and backstage details of TWI rather than checking out dissertations pinpointing doctrinal error.

it was that way for me.....after i left - being a study bug it wasn't long before i became well aware of serious doctrinal issues in the PFAL material.....however, it was my wife who read up on stuff at Transchat and then Waydale - eventually she joined Grease Spot - and all along the way she'd share tidbits with me. that finally got my curiosity up enough to join Grease Spot myself....

.....but i'd have to say it was things like the LEAD thread, topics dealing with adultery, mind games, abuses of power and betrayals of trust that really upset me so much - making me feel like any of the doctrinal stuff that i looked at barely scratched the surface of what was really wrong with TWI....

doctrinal analysis to identify a pathogen may be able to explain in cold clinical terms how the organization got to be such a sick and sickening environment - but seeing the virus in full bloom - i.e. stories of people's experiences - can really knock you for an emotional loop! .....it's quite a shock, as the accumulation of incidents from victims reaches a tipping point in your head and you step back - and start reviewing over and over again some "harmless" memory - - like a family corps pajama party with vp.....and go "holy crap! it was right there in front of us all along!"

~~~

i think the old adage "actions speak louder than words" may be applicable in unraveling one's entire TWI experience.

garbage in....garbage out

twisted doctrine yields twisted practice

[johniam]

I think people have a lot of questions, preconceived opinions, etc. before they find this place and they just want to express themselves. Plus, by bonding with other posters, thus establishing an interpersonal relationship, they are then more prepared to read lengthy stuff.

[waysider]

I think people have a lot of questions, preconceived opinions, etc. before they find this place and they just want to express themselves. Plus, by bonding with other posters, thus establishing an interpersonal relationship, they are then more prepared to read lengthy stuff.

You have a good point.

[geisha779]

I think the SNAPPING thread has to be just as informative as any article or thread on this site. I must have read that thread 5 times. I even looked into some of the claims made......and I knew some of the information before I even saw the thread. Whoever the poster was who put that information together....I am very thankful to him/her. It should be enough to get ex-twi still wedded to VP theology to start to consider there may be a problem and that there may be something else to Christianity.

Unless you just toss the whole PFAL/TWI thing out...like I did....and start over....it is worth investigating whose intellectual property VP "borrowed". Are these teachers you would have been drawn to had VP not just wholesale packaged their work? For me....not now....including Bullinger....who has some good and much that has been seriously questioned. We still have a Companion Bible somewhere...I think? Maybe we tossed it. There were bad memories attached to it as a very nasty piece of work disguised as a "Reverend" gave it to hubby. Someone recently mention the dear departed fellow here on the forums and I choked on my coffee.

There was a time when I would have been attracted to more Word of Faith theology, but not any longer.

Keynon said something to the effect.....the cross has no salvation in it. It is a place of failure and defeat. Many of these word of faith teachers miss what happened on the cross and seem disgusted by their own purchase price. I don't get it. I just know I don't ever want that again.

Much of it is dressed up occultism. Why not just embrace the occult if that is what one is attracted to? They take the added step of eschewing Christianity....and redefining it to be palatable to their natural inclination. I fell for it once....why keep going back or wade there? It never did us any favors IMO.

Worth looking into ....at the very least. Oh, and the kicker...most of the people he "borrowed" from....trinitarians. Still makes me laugh.

Edited February 23, 2011 by geisha779

[Ham]

very very interesting.. so he "borrowed" from "the devil."

a friend of the devil is a friend of mine..

maybe I'll get some sleep, tonight..