Intercession

[Twinky]

I'm doing a Bible study course and last week the "tutor" was going on about Jesus interceding on our behalf. Got me thinking (yes, I do that sometimes) – particularly because Rom 8:26 says: "the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" – in fact, in TWI teaching (that I don't want to get into) it's one of the 12 or 14 benefits of having holy spirit.

But in Rom 8:27 and 34, we learn that "Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us."

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought : but the Spirit itself maketh intercession #1 for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts [God is the searcher of hearts] knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he [it, the spirit? he, JC?] maketh intercession #2 for the saints according to the will of God. …

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth .

34 Who is he that condemneth ? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession #2 for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? …

I got interested in this.

Holy spirit intercedes for us? And Christ "also" intercedes for us? What's going on here?

First I found that Rom 8:26 (talking of the spirit) uses the Gk word Huperentugchano (#1) meaning simply "to intercede for one" – "huper" being intensive of the following.

Rom 8:27 and 34, used in context of what Christ does, use a different word, though clearly the root word for the above: Entugchano (#2) - meaning

1. to light upon a person or a thing, fall in with, hit upon, a person or a thing

2. to go to or meet a person, esp. for the purpose of conversation, consultation, or supplication

3. to pray, entreat

4. make intercession for any one

Next I found that "also" (Gk kai) means (Strong's definition) "and, also, even, indeed, but"; apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force [my note, does that sound posh, or what?!]

Which may not mean "also" (=in addition to) but may perhaps be emphasising that it's Christ "indeed" who makes intercession for us.

"Intercession" is not a commonly used word in the Bible – only 6 times in the NT, and then with 3 Greek words.

So what is intercession? There's any number of Christian definitions, some of which are pretty wacky, but bear in mind that Paul, who wrote the epistle of Romans, was himself a well-educated Roman citizen, in a land occupied by the Roman army, and was writing to the believers in Rome. Therefore, his choice of this particular word has to be highly significant and must be imbued with the likely meaning at the time, not "Christian" definitions that came a millenium and a half, or more, later.

What do we find? One meaning for "intercessio" (a Latin word) that definitely bears looking at is this: In Roman history – intercessio is the interposing of a veto by a tribune or other magistrate.

Intercession has two meanings:

(1) the interference of a magistratus to whom an appeal [Appellatio] was made. The object of the Intercessio was to put a stop to proceedings [the veto], on the ground of informality or other sufficient cause. Any magistratus might "intercedere," who was of equal rank with or of rank superior to the magistratus from or against whom the appellatio was.

My link

Also:

(2) when a man takes upon himself the debt of another by virtue of some dealing with the creditor. This may be in either of the following ways: he who intercedes may take upon himself the debt of another, and may become debtor in place of that other: or the intercedent may become debtor while the debtor still continues debtor [my note: this is more like being a guarantor or surety for another]

Different link

Nowadays, we know the first meaning of "intercessio" more as "veto" meaning "I forbid" - preventing things from happening - preventing legal process from taking effect.

Intercessio, was adopted by the Roman Republic in the 6th century BC as a way of enabling the tribunes to protect the interests of the plebs (common citizenry) from the encroachments of the patricians, who dominated the Senate.

• A tribune's veto did not prevent the senate from passing a bill, but meant that it was denied the force of law.
• The tribunes could also use the veto to prevent a bill from being brought before the plebeian assembly.
• The consuls also had the power of veto, as decision-making generally required the assent of both consuls. If one disagreed, either could invoke the intercessio to block the action of the other.

The veto was an essential component of the Roman conception of power being wielded not only to manage state affairs but to moderate and restrict the power of the state's high officials and institution. (Wikipedia)

In brief, intercession is a legal process – it's not just a "request" (that's prayer) but it's a process effectively nullifying a legally justifiable outcome.

We hear about God being a "just" God. That we were "legally bought back" from the devil. That the price is paid, and the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us is blotted out. That JC is the "mediator" for us with the Father.

But I never heard anything about this legal right; this process - it's awesome!

Intercession is a legal process.

Intercession is the legal right to intervene on behalf of another to veto the law or a penalty.

Intercession is the legal right to say: "The force of the law shall not take effect."

Jesus, as son, having equality with the Father (Jn 5:18), has the right to intervene.

Jesus also has the right to say, "I've taken on this debt, it's paid in full" - because of his legal standing - not just because he himself already has paid.

Astonishingly: we as believers have that same legal right. 1 Tim 2:1 exhorts that “supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men.” This word “intercessions” is a different Greek word again, enteuxis, meaning “a falling in with, meeting with, an interview…a conference, conversation, petition, supplication” and is derived from its root word, the second definition above.

I know how many years it took me to qualify as a lawyer – to have legal rights to speak on behalf of clients – to advocate their cases – before the court at the highest level. It would have taken me very many more years to acquire status enough to actually overrule fellow lawyers and judges, rather than just present a different point of view.

And here – God just gives us that right as part of the package of sonship rights.

The more I look at this – the bigger it gets.

Comment, anyone, before you rush off to intercede for someone?

Edited February 19, 2011 by Twinky

[Twinky]

In case I hadn't made it clear enough, the intercessio process isn't where the intercessor / intervenor says, "Please can you let this person off?"

The intercessor doesn't beg, persuade, wheedle.

The intercessor says, with all boldness and in complete confidence that when he says, demands: "No, this is not going to happen. No penalty here. No punishment" - he knows the punishment isn't going to take place. It's nullified. Of no effect.

As such, there must be something of a link with Mercy but I haven't explored that link. Yet.

[socks]

Thanks Twinky. Thinking...:)

[T-Bone]

interesting stuff Twinky .....i don't have much to add right now but i keep going back to the passages in Romans 8 you mentioned and think there must be a whole lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that i will never know about.

when talking about intercession for others Matthew 5 always comes to mind - where Jesus told us to love our enemies - to PRAY for them! i always use to wisecrack back to God "You've got to be kidding me, Lord!" .....and i sometimes would think of intercessory prayer in the context of Matthew 5:43 & ff was something like asking God NOT to reign His holy terror on the enemy.

Matthew 5:43-48 KJV

⁴³Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

⁴⁴But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

⁴⁵That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

⁴⁶For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

⁴⁷And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

⁴⁸Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

~~

something i see in the above passage - making intercessory prayer for another - in a most unusual and challenging context - like for one's enemy - it can also have a profound effect on the one praying - becoming a little more like our Father [verse 45].

[T-Bone]

Twinky, your thread got me reading up a little more on intercession....

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia has a few things that hit me big [paraphrasing from Vol 2, pages 858 & 859] :

....intercession often becomes a distinct burden of one who serves God among His people and becomes the inevitable accompaniment of the servant's work for God - especially in the midst of crisis and failure. Intercession becomes more prominent the more the servant identifies with the status & situation of the flock. Exodus. 32:11-14; 31f.; Numbers 11:11-15;...

....in the gospels, the works of Jesus are constantly inspiring ordinary people to come to him on behalf of others. Parents plead with him in desperation for sick children Mark 5:22-43; Matthew 15:22-28....a friend pleads on behalf of a friend Luke 7:3-10....a man pleads for his servant Matthew 8:6-13....

....Jesus commands intercession Matthew 5:44; 9:38. He also encourages intercession by promising an answer to prayers made "in his name" John 14:3; 15:16; 16:23-26....To pray "in Jesus' name" seems to mean to pray inspired by the word he has spoken John 15:7....

....the petitions of the Lord's prayer involve a large element of prayer for others. It is significant that the persistent praying in the parable of the man at midnight Luke 11:5-13 involves intercession on behalf of another....

.....the intercession of the Church in the NT is linked with Christ's heavenly intercession - the inspiration of the Holy Spirit enables the Church to imitate within its own earthly life the intercession of its High Priest....

end of referencing

~~

i was checking out New Testament Commentary: Exposition of Paul's Epistle to the Romans by William Hendriksen this morning - what he had to say on the Romans 8 passages Twinky covered and thought this worthy of note - i'm paraphrasing from pages 273 - 277:

.....part of our weakness in prayer [besides our sinfulness] is our uncertainty of the content of our prayer being in harmony with God's will....what to pray for is not always clear as evidenced by Paul's prayer regarding his thorn in the flesh II Corinthians 12:7....see also Philippians 1:22-24...

....if the objection should be raised "why not let the Holy Spirit do all the praying? Why should we pray at all?" an answer would be:

a child of God needs to - wants to pour out their heart to God

the Holy Spirit prays only in the hearts of those who pray

God has commanded his people to pray and has promised a response

there may be many human prayers which do NOT need to be counteracted by the Holy Spirit

....Romans 8 teaches that believers have 2 intercessors: the Holy Spirit on earth, in our very hearts John 14:16,17 and Christ conducting his intercessory tasks in heaven Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25; I John 2:1....

....Christ's intercession may be compared with that of a father, as head of the family, for all the family members. The Holy Spirit's intercession reminds us rather of a mother kneeling at the bedside of her ailing child, and in her prayer presenting that child's needs to the heavenly Father...

end of referencing

~~

....not meaning to question the legal aspect of intercession - but i have a problem with trying to muster up confidence or boldness or presenting demands before God....not questioning the points you presented like intercession being a legal sonship right - BUT - maybe it's just me and the backlash of leaving behind a certain mindset from TWI -so what i'm saying is all that legal power stuff is cool - but i see it all as vested in Christ & the Holy Spirit....

....so on a practical level, the way my prayers sound like are generally very simple and unassuming - probably an easy target for a some to pick apart saying "My God is too small".....i find when i do pray for someone experiencing a great crisis or failure - it is with such an awkward, fumbling, fuzzy articulation of asking for God's help to grant them strength or patience....for God to help them choose a wise course of action....or perhaps ask God to inspire me to lend them appropriate support, competent counsel, provide a sympathetic ear.....to be a friend..... whatever

~~

edited for clarity

Edited February 20, 2011 by T-Bone

[waysider]

"....if the objection should be raised "why not let the Holy Spirit do all the praying? Why should we pray at all?" an answer would be:

a child of God needs to - wants to pour out their heart to God

the Holy Spirit prays only in the hearts of those who pray

God has commanded his people to pray and has promised a response

there may be many human prayers which do NOT need to be counteracted by the Holy Spirit"

This a problem I always had with SIT.

Don't know what to pray for, how to pray for it? No problem! Just SIT. ....That way you don't actually have to collect your thoughts or give serious intellectual contemplation to your request.

It never sounded like a healthy approach to inner reflection to me. Of course, I went along with it anyhow, hoping someday I, too, would be "spiritually mature" enough to understand it. Sigh.

[Kit Sober]

Thanks so much for this. I loved the light you shine on this section of scripture.

One of the versions I have grown to love also is Eugene Peterson's "The Message," which grew out of the work he did translating scripture for the street kids he worked with as a youth pastor.

²⁶Meanwhile, the moment we get tired in the waiting, God's Spirit is right alongside helping us along. If we don't know how or what to pray, it doesn't matter. He does our praying in and for us, making prayer out of our wordless sighs, our aching groans. ²⁷He knows us far better than we know ourselves, knows our pregnant condition, and keeps us present before God. ²⁸That's why we can be so sure that every detail in our lives of love for God is worked into something good.

²⁹God knew what he was doing from the very beginning. He decided from the outset to shape the lives of those who love him along the same lines as the life of his Son. The Son stands first in the line of humanity he restored. We see the original and intended shape of our lives there in him. ³⁰After God made that decision of what his children should be like, he followed it up by calling people by name. After he called them by name, he set them on a solid basis with himself. And then, after getting them established, he stayed with them to the end, gloriously completing what he had begun.

³¹So, what do you think? With God on our side like this, how can we lose? ³²If God didn't hesitate to put everything on the line for us, embracing our condition and exposing himself to the worst by sending his own Son, is there anything else he wouldn't gladly and freely do for us? ³³And who would dare tangle with God by messing with one of God's chosen? ³⁴Who would dare even to point a finger? The One who died for us—who was raised to life for us!—is in the presence of God at this very moment sticking up for us. ³⁵Do you think anyone is going to be able to drive a wedge between us and Christ's love for us? There is no way! Not trouble, not hard times, not hatred, not hunger, not homelessness, not bullying threats, not backstabbing, not even the worst sins listed in Scripture:

³⁶They kill us in cold blood because they hate you. We're sitting ducks; they pick us off one by one.

³⁷None of this fazes us because Jesus loves us. ³⁸I'm absolutely convinced that nothing—nothing living or dead, angelic or demonic, today or tomorrow, ³⁹high or low, thinkable or unthinkable—absolutely nothing can get between us and God's love because of the way that Jesus our Master has embraced us.

And this fits exactly with what you show. What a seamless God He is! I am also amazed at how these words to not preclude persecution, torture, and murder as possible occurrences for Jesus Christ's loved ones, but surely preclude any of these events that may happen to us from separating us from our dear Lord.

I have a dear friend Cliff Lott who is Baton Rouge LA, and prior to Katrina the Lord had him store away food and water and other things. Then when Katrina hit, he was able to take care of his family and friends and they set up a tent in a dry parking lot. No sweat. He didn't even miss a beat. In fact he sent me a lovely mardi gras music box. (He certainly wasn't asking for handouts!)

[geisha779]

Twinky,

When you have time could you elaborate a bit more on how you glean from that verse 1 Timothy 2.1 how we have the same right to intercede in the same manner? I am having a problem following that along. I too believe the power is vested in Christ and is through the Holy Spirit. They are not strangers to one another. They work as one according to the will of God.

God is just ,so why would He vest that power in us, as we cannot see everything? We do not have omniscient knowledge to see into the hearts of others. God works all things together for good ....see where I am going. The things that God has foreknown or predestined, are not ours to understand, and we could demand something He does not will. We are subject to His will, He is not legally obligated to ours?

I am confused. I am not arguing with you, but I don't understand how this fits.

Maybe I am not really getting what you are saying or how you are making the leap from Timothy 2:1 to some kind of "Sonship" right.

I don't even think Sonship right is a scriptural concept is it?

And just a note from personal experience....sometimes the worst thing can happen, God can give you just what you have asked for...no mistaking it...tough way to find out...you were not asking for the right thing!

Edited March 7, 2011 by geisha779

[Kit Sober]

From Geisha779

And just a note from personal experience....sometimes the worst thing can happen, God can give you just what you have asked for...no mistaking it...tough way to find out...you were not asking for the right thing!

I think it's part of the Holy Spirit's sense of humor and way of teaching us to always lean on Him. Circa 1982 I was praying for a friend who was on maternity leave, for her to have a peaceful and very quiety time (which was what I would like to have). However, when she returned to work and I asked her how her vacation had been, she said, "BORING. B -O-R-I-N-G. . . " Of course I never told her that's what I had been praying for.But it was funny to me. Needless to say I listen to the Lord's direction in my praying for others. Indeed we cannot know what we should pray for as we ought without the Holy Spirit's direction.

[geisha779]

From Geisha779

I think it's part of the Holy Spirit's sense of humor and way of teaching us to always lean on Him.

I think so too. I prayed...got what I asked for...no mistaking it as it was very specific...and it set of a chain of learning...I don't ever want to repeat. I like to pray for others, but "thy will be done" is a good rule of thumb. After all, if we really put our faith in Him....we have got to trust His will is best....and we are not going to overrule it anyway.

It is still wonderful to pour your heart out and commune with God....He always lets us know He hears us...even if He says no to what we ask. :)

[Tom]

Holy spirit intercedes for us? And Christ "also" intercedes for us? What's going on here?

Astonishingly: we as believers have that same legal right

Comment, anyone, before you rush off to intercede for someone?

I have some thoughts on the above things that interested you, but first let me say that is excellent work you've done. Thanks for sharing it.

John 14:16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18  ¶I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter.

Jesus was the first Comforter.

18 ¶I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

He also is the 2nd comforter.

Acts 2:33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this.

The spirit of Christ came with the Comforter which is holy spirit - not the Holy Spirit, God, but the holy spirit, the Comforter. So, to have Christ making intercession IS to have the spirit making intercession.

John 14:12  ¶Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

For us to make intercession IS for the spirit to make intercession IS for Christ to make intercession.

John 17:21  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

We're all one.

[Tom]

In case I hadn't made it clear enough, the intercessio process isn't where the intercessor / intervenor says, "Please can you let this person off?"

The intercessor doesn't beg, persuade, wheedle.

The intercessor says, with all boldness and in complete confidence that when he says, demands: "No, this is not going to happen. No penalty here. No punishment" - he knows the punishment isn't going to take place. It's nullified. Of no effect.

As such, there must be something of a link with Mercy but I haven't explored that link. Yet.

It is totally mercy that this intercession stops the judgment against us. We deserve none of this deliverance that intercession gives us. After this wonderful chapter 8 of Romans tells us of this intercession and that nothing can separate us from the love of God, chapters 9-11 are a parenthesis dealing with Israel. Then comes chapter 12. If chapters 9-11 are a parenthesis, then we ought to be able to leave them out and proceed directly from the end of 8 to the beginning of 12 & have it flow. Chapter 12 begins, "Romans 12:1  ¶I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God." What mercies of God? The stuff chapter 8 is talking about.

Mercy,

Tom