Oh it's incredible! I watched this program the other night on CNBC. Three guys who bilked people out of millions by using a "Ponzi" scheme were arrested by the feds. One guy plead guilty in the face of insurmountable evidence against him. The only work he did for a year was call people on the phone and tell people about this new "secret" discovery of clean burning coal. It was going to save the world and "if you would invest at least $10,000 so we can begin excavating...." All he and this other guy really owned was a puny little coal mine that was shut down. Oh, and he was a pastor. CNBC interviewed some of his victims and you know what they said, "He got caught up, because he trusted the wrong people. His only mistake was a mistake in judgement. He was as much a victim as anyone else."
One of the other guys in on it also owned a fake gold mine. He was getting people to invest so that he could transport 22 tons of gold to the poor people in Dubai. He actually went on the lam when he found out there was a warrant our for him but he was captured in Hong Kong. He stood trial in the U.S. and completely crumbled when testifying in his own defense, against the advice of his attorney. He's serving a 20-year jail sentence. You know what some are saying about him? "That evil federal government! Just when he was getting ready to close the deal they stepped in and messed everything up!" He was telling his "investors", i.e. followers, that he was just about ready to close the deal for at least a year.
An agent with the Securities Exchange Commission said it was fairly common for several people to continue to defend the perpetrator even in the face of undeniable facts.
I said all this to say that even in the face of undeniable facts, there will always be some who will defend a perpetrator.
You've made jokes about Hitler. I seriously knew an Italian woman who still vehemently felt that Mussolini was given a bad rap and that he was actually good for Italy. She was drunk at the time, but still....We were trying to get her to take the class. Too bad she didnt take it, she would have fit right in.
Waysider, I wonder if that's a variant of Stockholm syndrome - identifying with one's captors.
In the cases you mention - the people have to identify with the one who ripped them off, so as to preserve some shred of their own self-esteem - they simply can't admit they made such a stupid mistake so they have to think that the person who ripped them off isn't a fraudster but has a genuine product.
they simply can't admit they made such a stupid mistake so they have to think that the person who ripped them off isn't a fraudster but has a genuine product.
I saw some show a few years back interviewing a few folks who are still Branch Davidians even with full knowledge of what David Koresh did.....according to them he was a very gifted teacher and prophet of the lord but with some personal issues and failings
Koresh has an interesting life history: Koresh Sounds like a crackpot from the get-go.
Funny how all these cult leaders think that women belong to them: "... also claims that Koresh would annul all marriages of couples who joined his cult. He then had exclusive sexual access to the women" including under-age females.
Reading a bit more about Jim Jones brought Tim Stoen to light.
His Wikipedia entry has some interesting remarks about tactics used by JJ, the writing of letters, confessions and affidavits, and how they were used against the authors. That was a common TWI tactic.
Funny how all these cult leaders think that women belong to them: "... also claims that Koresh would annul all marriages of couples who joined his cult. He then had exclusive sexual access to the women" including under-age females.
I was reading a book on biology and it mentioned cult leaders and their affinity for the ladies. According to the book, its a biological thing. It said being top dogs, it was their biological responsibility to spread as many of their genes around as they could.
I'm not saying I agree with the position. Just a thought.
I was reading a book on biology and it mentioned cult leaders and their affinity for the ladies. According to the book, its a biological thing. It said being top dogs, it was their biological responsibility to spread as many of their genes around as they could.
I'm not saying I agree with the position. Just a thought.
SoCrates
that makes sense....... occasionally vp referred to his favorite porn video - the women with the dog
I was reading a book on biology...It said being top dogs, it was their biological responsibility to spread as many of their genes around as they could.
I'm not saying I agree with the position. Just a thought.
SoCrates
I'm thinkin' it was more a power trip, similar to rape. And what better way to create followers than to make them?
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Ham
very likely. Same as Hitler, Milosivek.. Pol-Pot..
Misunderstood, otherwise, "darlings"..
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mstar1
...with a gift ministry....
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geisha779
I love it. :)
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Broken Arrow
Oh it's incredible! I watched this program the other night on CNBC. Three guys who bilked people out of millions by using a "Ponzi" scheme were arrested by the feds. One guy plead guilty in the face of insurmountable evidence against him. The only work he did for a year was call people on the phone and tell people about this new "secret" discovery of clean burning coal. It was going to save the world and "if you would invest at least $10,000 so we can begin excavating...." All he and this other guy really owned was a puny little coal mine that was shut down. Oh, and he was a pastor. CNBC interviewed some of his victims and you know what they said, "He got caught up, because he trusted the wrong people. His only mistake was a mistake in judgement. He was as much a victim as anyone else."
One of the other guys in on it also owned a fake gold mine. He was getting people to invest so that he could transport 22 tons of gold to the poor people in Dubai. He actually went on the lam when he found out there was a warrant our for him but he was captured in Hong Kong. He stood trial in the U.S. and completely crumbled when testifying in his own defense, against the advice of his attorney. He's serving a 20-year jail sentence. You know what some are saying about him? "That evil federal government! Just when he was getting ready to close the deal they stepped in and messed everything up!" He was telling his "investors", i.e. followers, that he was just about ready to close the deal for at least a year.
An agent with the Securities Exchange Commission said it was fairly common for several people to continue to defend the perpetrator even in the face of undeniable facts.
I said all this to say that even in the face of undeniable facts, there will always be some who will defend a perpetrator.
You've made jokes about Hitler. I seriously knew an Italian woman who still vehemently felt that Mussolini was given a bad rap and that he was actually good for Italy. She was drunk at the time, but still....We were trying to get her to take the class. Too bad she didnt take it, she would have fit right in.
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Twinky
Waysider, I wonder if that's a variant of Stockholm syndrome - identifying with one's captors.
In the cases you mention - the people have to identify with the one who ripped them off, so as to preserve some shred of their own self-esteem - they simply can't admit they made such a stupid mistake so they have to think that the person who ripped them off isn't a fraudster but has a genuine product.
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mstar1
I saw some show a few years back interviewing a few folks who are still Branch Davidians even with full knowledge of what David Koresh did.....according to them he was a very gifted teacher and prophet of the lord but with some personal issues and failings
SSDD
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Twinky
Koresh has an interesting life history: Koresh Sounds like a crackpot from the get-go.
Funny how all these cult leaders think that women belong to them: "... also claims that Koresh would annul all marriages of couples who joined his cult. He then had exclusive sexual access to the women" including under-age females.
As for Jim Jones: "While Jones banned sex among Temple members outside of marriage, he himself voraciously engaged in sexual relations with both male and female Temple members.[/url] Jones, however, claimed that he detested engaging in homosexual activity and did so only for the male temple adherents' own good, purportedly to connect them symbolically with him (Jones)" - notwithstanding he had an earlier police record for homosexual activity.
Jones
Ain't life fun....
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Twinky
Reading a bit more about Jim Jones brought Tim Stoen to light.
His Wikipedia entry has some interesting remarks about tactics used by JJ, the writing of letters, confessions and affidavits, and how they were used against the authors. That was a common TWI tactic.
Tim Stoen
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T-Bone
sometimes i hear a reality-check voice over when certain people are recalled.... ."i wish i were the cult leader i know to be."
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So_crates
I was reading a book on biology and it mentioned cult leaders and their affinity for the ladies. According to the book, its a biological thing. It said being top dogs, it was their biological responsibility to spread as many of their genes around as they could.
I'm not saying I agree with the position. Just a thought.
SoCrates
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T-Bone
that makes sense....... occasionally vp referred to his favorite porn video - the women with the dog
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shazdancer
I'm thinkin' it was more a power trip, similar to rape. And what better way to create followers than to make them?
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