"A prophet is a difficult man to live with"

[geisha779]

quote: Do you have any clue what is happening outside of your little bubble?

No, do you? Geisha, no offense, but the purely interpersonal aspect of my posting relationship with you has taken on a quality that reminds me of an old SNL skit. It was during the very first year of SNL. Candace Bergen was the host and in the skit she was an investigative reporter interviewing Dan Aykroid, who was a toy maker. He made toys called bag o' glass, bag of nails, and Johnny switchblade killer ninja, or something like that. She was trying to gently convince him that his toys were dangerous and he kept blowing her off. He'd say, "I'm just giving the kids what they want!". This analogy is not a 100% match, but as for the purely interpersonal side of this, I think it's kind of humorous.

I noticed you came on GSC in '06. These threads are kind of a replay of dialogue from 2000 to early 2008. Same basic conflict. Some of the women who used to dispute with me have not participated. If your private message is active, they've probably contacted you saying, "Look, don't engage this guy, he's nuts, he's loony, he's not going to see the light.", whatever it is. I'm not merely trying to get a rise, I'm stating my opinion, and believe it or not, I'm not the only one with opinions like these.

While I believe that VP did bad things, I don't buy the whole hype. There is an infinity of things he's been accused of and you and others seem to blindly accept all of it as a truth package. I do not. Some (perhaps most) of that stuff is either fabricated or exaggerated. There's a reason why he was never arrested for anything and it's not because the devil was protecting his own.

He taught us great truth about God and the accomplished works of His son Jesus Christ. Truth that is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God wasn't looking for a few good men; He only needed one. His son Jesus Christ. We have eternal life, which is truly more than abundant. We have access to God, peace in our hearts, we were called to the one body, the mystery, seated on the right hand of God, righteous, sanctified, justified, redeemed, reconciled and reconciling. That trumps any laundry list of sins.

If you conclude that all VP taught is bogus because of his flesh, then the dominoes all start to fall; you might not have eternal life, you might not have access to God, and the mudslide continues. Why did God allow me to be so cruelly deceived. Does God care about me at all? Does God even exist? Then you have to start over at the beginning. Most people will revert back to whatever they did before twi; religion, drugs, whatever, but it's all despair. Not hope, despair.

Some here have said prove all things, hold fast that which is good, but in practice, most of you think that once someone has heard what VP allegedly did, then there's a point where it is expected that the hearer must "repent and be made clean". Yet there are many acceptible ways to be "made clean" as long as they don't espouse anything twi. The blood of Jesus Christ has already cleansed us from all sin. One sacrifice. One offering. One savior. This hasn't gone anywhere.

And sadly, your posts remind me of this....What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them. I know that is harsh...but there it is.

I don't think you know what you believe or why. You clearly do not have a grasp on the scriptures....but then again....knowledge is just knowledge without the heart being transformed. That transformation....is going to translate into a life of righteousness if one truly has saving faith. When discussing VP you will find that in 2 Peter by the way.

You know...it probably is much easier for me to believe what VP did to women as I had a lovely little run in with the man himself. Apparently he liked what he saw. I was lucky...I made a bee-line for the door. Somehow, after having your backside grabbed and your attributes commented on.....you get an idea of what he was capable of. I didn't post until 2008, but I don't need to hear others stories of abuse. I have learned enough about the scriptures since TWI to know that what we were taught was wrong.

Those giant leaps of assumption you make with VP about other ministers or pastors or legitimate bible scholars not understanding the book. Those are ridiculous and quite elitist considering you were the one in the cult. How do you just follow him there? Are you so versed in theology, or such a bible scholar you can make those arrogant assumptions with VP? No, obviously you are not....that assumption...is a leap of faith. You put your faith in VP.

Although Jesus was pretty clear about a bad tree unable to bear good fruit and the Apostles were very clear about false teachers and what they do with the scriptures(which you should read) you insist on following that man. Your loyalties are pretty obvious.

You should read Matthew 15 sometime and see where the blind guides really lead. It isn't pretty.

I have been able to glean a little bit about what you get from the gospel. You don't seem to be able to put 2 + 2 together and come up with 4. A life given to the Lord.....will reflect the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Where was that in VP's life again? When was it he stopped sinning? When did He follow Jesus away from sin and into righteousness?

It certainly would be evident in his life.

Don't you wonder why VP had no peers? Why other men who stand for God had NOTHING to do with him other than to warn about him? It is because they were following the Lord's instructions to have nothing to do with men like VP. It is pretty sound advice...you should listen to what the Lord tells you.

Edited February 8, 2011 by geisha779

[WordWolf]

I'm stating my opinion, and believe it or not, I'm not the only one with opinions like these.

[Out in the wide world, there's Flat Earthers and people who think the space program is faked

and TV wrestling is real.]

While I believe that VP did bad things, I don't buy the whole hype. There is an infinity of things he's been accused of and you and others seem to blindly accept all of it as a truth package. I do not.

[More of this silly black-white, absolute thinking. We've heard claims we were skeptical on,

and some we rejected, and some we held out for more information before coming to any conclusions.

vpw was not accused of "an infinity of things." If he was, it would be easy to dismiss some claims.

Nobody's gone around accusing vpw of eating the flesh of other humans.

Nobody's gone around accusing vpw of dismembering babies.

Nobody's gone around accusing vpw of fecophilia.

And so on, and so on.

Those things we believe, we never "BLINDLY" believed, nor consider them "package" deals.

WE have used the reasonable approach of evaluating each on its own merits.

I've noticed some people discard ALL claims of any wrongdoing, no matter the extent of evidence.

Now, THOSE people have "BLINDLY ACCEPTED ALL OF A TRUTH PACKAGE."

They said "vpw is innocent of any wrongdoing no matter what!" and see nothing wrong with excusing

vpw whenever the evidence is too strong that he actually DID evil things.

Some people can see the Bible define EVIL, and then REJECT THE BIBLE as soon as vpw fits the description.

That's a "BLIND" operation of some sort of "TRUTH PACKAGE."]

Some (perhaps most) of that stuff is either fabricated or exaggerated.

[it saves so much time to just close one's eyes to the accounts of victims, eyewitnesses,

material evidence, and so on rather than have to look them over and actually CONSIDER them all.

If one has "blindly accepted" the "truth package" that vpw was a nice guy who didn't violate laws

and didn't violate God's will, it certainly is a lot more pleasant to remain BLIND than to

consider evidence.]

There's a reason why he was never arrested for anything and it's not because the devil was protecting his own.

[There's many reasons vpw was never arrested for various felonies he committed.

Here's a few felonies, and here's why he was never arrested for them.

A) He was never arrested for plagiarizing Leonard because Leonard decided not to press charges.

He WAS hurt, however, and began posting notices about how wrong plagiarism is.

B) He was never arrested for plagiarizing Stiles because Stiles never found out. vpw held distribution

of twi books very tightly, and until the internet, that was all he needed to do to stay off Stiles' radar.

C) He was never arrested for plagiarizing Bullinger because Bullinger was already dead.

His plagiarism of each was still a crime- he just wasn't arrested for them.

D) He was never arrested for raping the women of God because he set up an elaborate scheme and covered

his tracks brilliantly- he selected the women least likely to speak up and most isolated from family,

he taught that sex was ok and not a big deal (but never on tape, only live among corps and staff),

he set up a network of people to help orchestrate incidents where he was alone with selected women of God,

and had them monitor those women, and "counsel" them to remain silent. Those who seemed likely to NOT

remain silent, he had their reputations SAVAGED and had them ostracized.

He taught lcm to do the same. lcm didn't rely as much on the elaborate scheme, however, and was caught.

Despite admissions of wrongdoing, lcm wasn't ARRESTED either- and that's a lot more about how the

court system works than about lcm having admitted wrongdoing (which should have put him behind bars.)]

He taught us great truth about God and the accomplished works of His son Jesus Christ. Truth that is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

[He plagiarized the work of great men. Truth from the mouth of a plagiarist is still truth.

He doesn't deserve to be credited for it, however. Moreover, he also taught us great ERROR AGAINST GOD

and His son Jesus Christ. The so-called "Law" of believing became a club to make people feel worse when

bad things happened to them. He taught that "technically, all the women in the kingdom belonged to the king",

which is contrary to Scripture. (However, it helped him set up his rapes and molestations and helped

set the stage for them.) And so on.

How can you tell the difference between the two?

I Thessalonians 5:21 KJV

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

I Thessalonians 5:21 NASB

"But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good."

Of course, people who keep promoting vpw as some great one, and pfal as some great program,

find themselves incapable of obeying Scripture in this.

They've BLINDLY accepted the "truth package" that if vpw, that settles it, they believe it.]

God wasn't looking for a few good men; He only needed one. His son Jesus Christ. We have eternal life, which is truly more than abundant. We have access to God, peace in our hearts, we were called to the one body, the mystery, seated on the right hand of God, righteous, sanctified, justified, redeemed, reconciled and reconciling. That trumps any laundry list of sins.

[None of this invalidates chapter after chapter of Scripture where God tells US

to do what is right and avoid doing what is wrong. We're supposed to do those-

and if we supposedly understand Scripture, this should be GLARINGLY obvious.

Plenty of people with low IQs who love God understand this as basic.

Do good because it pleases God. Avoid evil because evil displeases God.

We want to please God because he is worthy of pleasing, not because we are FORCED

to do so. Kids that are raised in healthy homes want to put in the effort to

do what their parents tell them- which is for their own benefit-

mainly because they want to hear their parents say they are PROUD of them.

That trumps any elaborate twisting of Scripture to excuse us from doing good.]

If you conclude that all VP taught is bogus because of his flesh,

[i even took a poll once- nobody was saying this. What they were saying is that when a man

claims to teach about God, and makes noticeable doctrinal errors, and his lifestyle is a mockery

of how God tells us to conduct ourselves,

then it behooves us to be careful and examine everything such a man has taught us.

A poor track record at accuracy on what we CAN observe means there's generally problems we

HAVEN'T observed.

If a mechanic is hired to fully recondition a car, and you examine his work, and you find a number

of fundamental problems in the engine and so on, and he repairs those,

how confident would you be that the things you DIDN'T examine were in fine shape?

Why do you insist on a higher standard of excellence for an auto mechanic

than for someone teaching on the eternal truths of God?]

then the dominoes all start to fall; you might not have eternal life, you might not have access to God, and the mudslide continues. Why did God allow me to be so cruelly deceived. Does God care about me at all? Does God even exist? Then you have to start over at the beginning. Most people will revert back to whatever they did before twi; religion, drugs, whatever, but it's all despair. Not hope, despair.

[in other words,

Never, never, never question vpw. If you do, you're headed for despair, drugs....]

Some here have said prove all things, hold fast that which is good, but in practice, most of you think that once someone has heard what VP allegedly did, then there's a point where it is expected that the hearer must "repent and be made clean". Yet there are many acceptible ways to be "made clean" as long as they don't espouse anything twi. The blood of Jesus Christ has already cleansed us from all sin. One sacrifice. One offering. One savior. This hasn't gone anywhere.

[Actually, we think that people who lived in error should be shown they were, and shown the truth.

We think that people who did wrongly should stop doing wrongly and do rightly.

Romans 6:15

"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."

This is not difficult- for most people. Many non-Christians consider this a no-brainer.]

Edited February 8, 2011 by WordWolf

[skyrider]

D) He was never arrested for raping the women of God because he set up an elaborate scheme and covered

his tracks brilliantly- he selected the women least likely to speak up and most isolated from family,

he taught that sex was ok and not a big deal (but never on tape, only live among corps and staff),

he set up a network of people to help orchestrate incidents where he was alone with selected women of God,

and had them monitor those women, and "counsel" them to remain silent. Those who seemed likely to NOT

remain silent, he had their reputations SAVAGED and had them ostracized.

Yes......an elaborate, seductive scheme

1) Isolated in a secluded corps program

2) Isolated in a cult-like community on staff

3) Surrounded by an inner circle of yes-men

4) Surrounded by personal bodyguard and security men

5) Built a system where mog is beyond reproach

6) Built a system with no checks and balances

7) Sanctioned that every woman belongs to king

8) Sanctioned sexual favors to mogs was spiritual maturity

9) Preyed on women with sexual abuse backgrounds

10) Preyed on women with alcohol and drug stimulants

11) Elaborate system of adulation and dominance

12) Elaborate system of dependency and major uphill battle for rape case

.

[Ham]

ah, the twelve "benefits" of da class..

[geisha779]

The really "good" Pastors teach with 4 ft swords next to them and joke about maiming women. Those are the ones EVERYONE feels really comfortable with. Don't ya know.

Yeah, my Pastor regularly uses vulgar terms while he threatens to disfigure me. That is why I keep going back....it is all so pure and holy. God must really get a good chuckle from Pastors like that. They really give Him a good name.

How.....fun.

Edited February 8, 2011 by geisha779

[mstar1]

The really "good" Pastors teach with 4 ft swords next to them and joke about maiming women. Those are the ones EVERYONE feels really comfortable with.

well what would we expect--his teacher, "the great one" walked down the church aisle kicking people right in the cajones.... just like Jesus did....

Honestly.... I have to wonder what book these people read sometimes and what they think that they get from it...

Even children know that behaviour is f'ed up. Do you have to have a worthless degree in 'biblical research' to get so screwed up that you cant figure out the difference between right and wrong in the very simplest and most basic things?

[skyrider]

ah, the twelve "benefits" of da class..

And...the twelve benefits of covering veepee's a$$

[So_crates]

While I believe that VP did bad things, I don't buy the whole hype. There is an infinity of things he's been accused of and you and others seem to blindly accept all of it as a truth package. I do not. Some (perhaps most) of that stuff is either fabricated or exaggerated. There's a reason why he was never arrested for anything and it's not because the devil was protecting his own.

He taught us great truth about God and the accomplished works of His son Jesus Christ. Truth that is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God wasn't looking for a few good men; He only needed one. His son Jesus Christ. We have eternal life, which is truly more than abundant. We have access to God, peace in our hearts, we were called to the one body, the mystery, seated on the right hand of God, righteous, sanctified, justified, redeemed, reconciled and reconciling. That trumps any laundry list of sins.

If you conclude that all VP taught is bogus because of his flesh, then the dominoes all start to fall; you might not have eternal life, you might not have access to God, and the mudslide continues. Why did God allow me to be so cruelly deceived. Does God care about me at all? Does God even exist? Then you have to start over at the beginning. Most people will revert back to whatever they did before twi; religion, drugs, whatever, but it's all despair. Not hope, despair.

(sigh)

I said it before and I'll say it again. Just who is the victim here? Those with lives Werewolf ruined, or the MOG, who you say isn't really bad, just misunderstood.

When a tractor-trailer hits a pedestrian, nobody cares how the driver feels.

Again, Werewolf was a man and he was entitled to his mistakes. But by being unremorseful and unrepentant he forfeited any forgiveness (from mortals) he should have gotten. By insisting on continuing on a path he knew was wrong (odd how he told everyone else to keep their pants zipped, isn't it), he forfeited any forgiveness we mortals owed him. God can do with him what he will, I have no say in that.

And, finally again, so Werewolf did an occasional good thing. You can roll a turd in sugar but that doesn't make it a chocolate bismark.

(sigh) Even though he's dead, the "shovel ready MOG" continues shoveling.

SoCrates

Edited February 8, 2011 by So_crates

[Ham]

shovel-ready mog..

what is the shovel for? And does one bury the mog after striking him soundly on the head with said shovel, or without?

dense, inquiring Squirrels would like clarification of terms here.

[Twinky]

Wow, it didn't take johniam long to drag this thread waaaay off track.

Anyone want to continue this thread and just quietly ignore john, leave him quietly in the corner muttering into his beer?

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

that's why I have him on ignore status

[So_crates]

shovel-ready mog..

what is the shovel for? And does one bury the mog after striking him soundly on the head with said shovel, or without?

dense, inquiring Squirrels would like clarification of terms here.

In post #158 of The Victoid's Ministry thread, Johniam wrote:

A man of God has to actually DO STUFF. Make right decisions. Decisions about what to emphasize, what to not emphasize, what to include in classes and teachings, what not to include. To borrow terminology from our president, VP may have been the only 'shovel ready' MOG around at the time.

My above post is a condensed version of the response I wrote him in that thread. Odd, he never answered any of my questions. I still would like to know who he thinks is the the real victims in Werewolfs whole demented circus. And after he's through with that I'd like to know why he's protecting the ringmaster.

The shovel? My take on it is to shovel manure or snow or malarky or bologna or whatever name you want to use for sour cotton candy Werewolf was spinning.

SoCrates

Edited February 9, 2011 by So_crates

[Ham]

or.. like a *doctor* not recognized by the AMA.. he came prepared with said shovel, to bury his "mistakes"..

[excathedra]

ohmygod this is ridiculous

a pig is hard to live with for godssake

--

i can't even.............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am willing to wait to be with god and christ and roll my eyes about this subject

i hope i get to do it

[Bolshevik]

Don't prophets live in caves? Or high on mountains?

or is that just wise men?

[waysider]

[geisha779]

. . . . . Do you have to have a worthless degree in 'biblical research' to get so screwed up that you cant figure out the difference between right and wrong in the very simplest and most basic things?

I am pretty sure you don't need a degree, but being a PFAL grad who never snapped back appears to be a prerequisite.

[Ham]

If Mr. Natural could still "deliver" today, it would still make some sense..

hey.. only 200 micrograms. but what the heck..

Hmmm. well..

just swallow down three or four of the suckers..

sowie. Just old memories here.. they have to live someplace..

In that particualar comic, he didn't learn the lesson.

Don't follow me. I'm NUTS..

I've done some funny such dance a couple of times..

but I've only been able to levitate in my dreams..

why start a commune.. when one can "turn people on" where they happen to BE at the moment..

maybe its asking far, far too much.

maybe not..

[waysider]

[Ham]

and at the end of the day.. Mr. Natural.. was just blotter..

not dispersions to his character here, by no means. Don't get me wrong or anything..

gawd bless him..

and to my dear, dear childhood friend.. who wouldn't pray for gawd to bless his lsd..

I really hope someday.. you have "what it takes" to REALLY talk to me..

:)

well.. there is no Mr. Natural here. I will go.. in my squirrelish ways.. to consume yet one more goblet of red wine..

[Broken Arrow]

[Yet, if you did good, clear research, and it disagreed with vpw, you were in trouble.

A seamless case was made that "adultery is bad", and twi tried to have it BURIED and said

HORRIBLE things about it. (Many people were told they'd get POSSESSED if they READ it!}

So, for vpw and twi, the word of vpw is of cardinal importance.

The Bible is important, but when they disagree, it's vpw's way or the highway.]

People got fired just for reading it. Obviously they were on staff.

[waysider]

I don't know if Mr. Natural was a prophet. He definitely had a gift ministry, though....bestowed upon him by one Mr. R. Crumb.

On second thought, he must have been an apostle----bringing new light to a whole generation of freaks and heads. Yeah, sure, it was really old light but.......

Edited February 9, 2011 by waysider

[Ham]

He was cool and all.. I still go where he goes..

quietly of course.

[Broken Arrow]

Don't prophets live in caves? Or high on mountains?

or is that just wise men?

Depends. Are you in Ohio, Kansas, Colorado, or Indiana?

[Ham]

why make such a big deal out of it..

when I was "downer" on my luck..

no it wasn't bad for me or anything..

but these morons couldn't figure it out..

this was.. and maybe still is the *rule*.

be *cool* about it.. and you can do almost anything you want to do..

"I can be anything I want to be.."

why don't you just friggin BE it..

I know.. it takes a lot..

what else did you expect with this existence.

I only get "blessed" with a finite amount here, existence, that is..

we should not have had the beer run..

isn't that the whole point here?

yeah..

it might lead into.. gawd forbid.. a cosmic pile of.. s*it..

what an immature thought..

sn't that where all quests lead? the unknown?..

sowy. all of the above nuttiness.. was largely endorsed by a crazy, sober driver, on a fabled beer run..

I was not the sober driver..

Gawd bless you, sober driver..

she offers me green tea..

I accept..

we were all prophets.. we just didn't know it..

I've been called that once.. by a follower of vic..

what do you now think, friend..