I followed steps 1 - 5.... Realized the illusion was an illusion, and moved without leaving a forwarding address.
I used to think it was The Household of God.
That changed to "it's got some problems, but it's probably just local."
That changed to "maybe I can help fix this."
And that made me realize that TWI wasn't broken - it was exactly what it was set out to be: a way to make money and manipulate people for the enjoyment of those at the very top.
The corps program, although touted as spiritual meat towards maturity, spends a majority of its time, effort and resources in serving milk in perpetuity.
Actually, I think you're giving the Corps program way too much credit in that they didn't serve anything, not even milk. No, the Way Corps was simply a program wherein its participants spent almost all of their time engaging in worthless busy work that resulted in nothing whatsoever. Yet TWI leadership lauded the program to the rank and file as THE path to spiritual maturity. That kept people coming in the program. Again, as you say, only an illusion.
Actually, I think you're giving the Corps program way too much credit in that they didn't serve anything, not even milk. No, the Way Corps was simply a program wherein its participants spent almost all of their time engaging in worthless busy work that resulted in nothing whatsoever. Yet TWI leadership lauded the program to the rank and file as THE path to spiritual maturity. That kept people coming in the program. Again, as you say, only an illusion.
Same thing with Fellow Laborers. Spend your time cutting grass and weeding the garden. I've looked at the FLO facebook page. People gushing about how much God taught them through digging a ditch or something. What a crock of pig poop.
"Oh yes! I learned sooooo much about God today! I was digging a ditch for Dr. Wierwille to irrigate his lawn when my shovel struck something. I figured it was a rock so I kept smacking it with my shovel. Eventually I dug under it when I heard a hiss and smelled a peculiar odor. I thought 'what could be making such a noise and smell?' so I lit my lighter to get a better look. It turns out I had dug through a gas line! Haha! Within seconds, the entire courtyard exploded! I quickly thought of the Book of Revelation and how things on this earth are going to explode and catch on fire when the believers are gathered.
As many of my brothers and sisters were being rushed to the hospital, I thought about how one person, just one person, could affect the lives of so many! I saw my life so much bigger.
Even though I no longer have the use of my right arm, in fact, I have no right arm, Haha! I'm soooo thankful that God privileged me with learning this great truth from His wonderful matchless Word, all from working on that ditch. I'm much more blessed now than ever! Sorry about your house, your barn, and the BRC, but I'm believing that God will fix it all. He always supplies you know, Haha!"
Actually, I think you're giving the Corps program way too much credit in that they didn't serve anything, not even milk.
Broken Arrow......I concede, you are right.
More specifically, I should point out that the corps program was touted as a work/study program.......interesting, that "work" is mentioned first. In mentioning "milk" the study/class side of things was pfal-rehash, dale carnegie techniques, and wholesale wierwille indoctrination. Lots of side teachings like knowles breathing, flossing, eating ediquette, safety and survival, etc.....parent or nanny instruction?
And, with the "work" aspect......it was pathetic. Having been raised in rural USA, I started driving a tractor at 11-years old, and a combine during wheat harvest at 12-years old. So, I clearly understand that my perspective on this.....is not the norm.
But really.....pulling weeds for 3 hours? sweeping stairs and hallways? food preparation, clean-up and storage? clearing deadwood in the way woods.....and CLAIMING HOW MIGHTILY GOD WAS TEACHING YOU IN THIS WORK? To me, it all suggests how twi fostered an authoritarian environment and corps bought into the submission of sold goods.
Ironically, whenever twi wanted to publically tout its greatness......doctors, professional businessmen, private-tutored rich kids, older retirees with wealth, etc. were spotlighted by wierwille and company. Follow the money trail and the party behind closed doors.
Looking back, it's obvious it was a better question for them than it was for me.
They'd jumped through every hoop twi had, and STILL nobody was saying
"Ok, you're as prepared as we can make you. Now go out there and serve God."
Instead, it was about a lifetime of remaining plugged in to the twi hierarchy,
"tapped to the root" and never about deciding to do anything with autonomy
or actually thinking for themselves.
Yeah.....now I clearly see why wierwille had to incorporate more heavy-handed controls around 1979, 1980. In April of 1980, twi moved its operation from the brc to the osc building.....and a corporate mentality evolved. Corps and staff meetings became more policy and regulations. All slackers or dissenters were put on public display during lunchroom rants or corps meetings. Many of twi's old-timer staffers saw the writing on the wall and headed for the exit doors. Sad, really.
"Tapped to the root"......twi's little marketing campaign. But really, twi wanted to stay "tapped to our wallets and cheap labor" to build their empire.
IMO.....wierwille knew exactly what he was doing and had no remorse. He used people. He abused people. He built his empire for the greater New Knoxville community and others to see. And yet, even before his death......the wierwille mystique was becoming unmasked and his followers were dispersing.
Actually, I think you're giving the Corps program way too much credit in that they didn't serve anything, not even milk. No, the Way Corps was simply a program wherein its participants spent almost all of their time engaging in worthless busy work that resulted in nothing whatsoever. Yet TWI leadership lauded the program to the rank and file as THE path to spiritual maturity. That kept people coming in the program. Again, as you say, only an illusion.
What's to say the corps purpose wasn't to bring vps and craigmeisters harem to them?
The men were just included to avoid suspicion. Think about it, can you see vp or craigmeister having a female only corps? That would have sounded a lot of alarm bells.
But really.....pulling weeds for 3 hours? sweeping stairs and hallways? food preparation, clean-up and storage? clearing deadwood in the way woods.....and CLAIMING HOW MIGHTILY GOD WAS TEACHING YOU IN THIS WORK? To me, it all suggests how twi fostered an authoritarian environment and corps bought into the submission of sold goods.
In the above scenerio, this would be to keep men who would question and women who didn't interest them too busy and too tired to realize what was really going on right under their noses.
"Oh yes! I learned sooooo much about God today! I was digging a ditch for Dr. Wierwille to irrigate his lawn when my shovel struck something. I figured it was a rock so I kept smacking it with my shovel. Eventually I dug under it when I heard a hiss and smelled a peculiar odor. I thought 'what could be making such a noise and smell?' so I lit my lighter to get a better look. It turns out I had dug through a gas line! Haha! Within seconds, the entire courtyard exploded! I quickly thought of the Book of Revelation and how things on this earth are going to explode and catch on fire when the believers are gathered.
As many of my brothers and sisters were being rushed to the hospital, I thought about how one person, just one person, could affect the lives of so many! I saw my life so much bigger.
Even though I no longer have the use of my right arm, in fact, I have no right arm, Haha! I'm soooo thankful that God privileged me with learning this great truth from His wonderful matchless Word, all from working on that ditch. I'm much more blessed now than ever! Sorry about your house, your barn, and the BRC, but I'm believing that God will fix it all. He always supplies you know, Haha!"
God bless! You are the best! Haha!
That's got to be one of the funniest things I've ever read here.
Reading this thread reminded me of something from a movie I saw recently. The movie is "Inception" – a sci-fi thriller about a guy who usually steals intellectual property from the mind of someone who is sleeping. Although the big twist in this story is that he is contracted to plant an idea in someone's head – an idea the person thinks is his own and that will influence him to make a major business decision.
This could probably get into all sorts of categories how TWI deceived, manipulated & motivated folks – but on this thread I thought of how from my earliest involvement with them, so many ideas were planted in my head – insidious seeds – that would effectively choke out a normal thought process. What I mistook for a blossoming garden of spiritual growth was actually overgrown weeds that obscured the perception of reality.
Jumping at any class that became "available" in my area, being excited to go door-to-door witnessing, putting my share of moolah in the cornucopia, all earned me the praise from others of how fast I am growing in "the Word". From the get go, I had the idea that anything TWI offered would put me on the fast track to spiritual growth & fulfillment. That's why I went WOW and then went in the Corps.. . There was only one way to go in this ministry and that's up.
…uhm more precisely, climbing the hierarchy of spiritual status. Oh, that's moving up alright – further up the corporate a$ $. But my head was telling me "Look how long I've been in TWI; how much I'm responsible for; how I've been around the man of God; how much I've worked PFAL; how much I've changed."
Ugh! Looking back .. . I mean way back – a brief scanning of when I took the class, my years as a cult-gear, the year I left up to now – in many ways is a weird nebulous feeling – similar to what I get sometimes when I feel an ache or stiffness from age and think "Where did my youth go? I still feel like a kid – though now trapped inside the body of an old man." So I wonder – did I learn anything? Have I grown spiritually? Reason tells me I must have – but maybe it's some humbling human safeguard of the brain that tells me I don't know much about anything – so I need to pay attention and be on guard during this journey. Also makes me think how in the he11 did I make it this far?
Sorry for rambling here.. .haven't posted in a long time and I know I tend to stray from topics.. .but another thing about this illusion of spiritual growth that I see – is the stark contrast of how we judge growth and change – while we were in TWI compared to how we think now. I think back on all the "deliverance" stories I heard in the ministry. They all sound alike. [speaking of Deliverance – I saw a T-Shirt at a canoe rental place in Gunnison "Paddle faster I hear banjos" – hmmm, that sort of fits here doesn't it?]. The common denominator in ministry deliverance stories is always the same standard – all things TWI is what's good for ya! Everyone thinks alike, homogenized personalities, canned experiences, standardized growth charts – all are a product of the PFAL factory – one of the world's most misleading producers of the Stepford Christians.
BUT – here at Grease Spot I have seen such a broad spectrum of perspectives, unique experiences & savvy thought processes by folks who have left Victorville.
In an effort to squelch other implanted ideas I'd just like to say that Howdy Doody never took the class and Mickey Mouse is not born of the seed of the serpent.
And now I have to wonder-----What the heck is "spiritual growth"?
I kinda liked this one.... to quote T-Bone "......uhm more precisely, climbing the hierarchy of spiritual status. Oh, that's moving up alright – further up the corporate a$ $."
Seems to fit TWI.
---------
I remember the sweetest most unassuming woman going into the WC and she came out the polar opposite. I was afraid of her. I don't scare easily.
Spiritual growth according to TWI? Seems to be just how mean an SOB one could become. Maybe those who didn't conform, pimp for leadership, sell out their fellow man, or refused to harden were the ones with true growth. At least they had something to show for it. Those are the ones we remember fondly.
And now I have to wonder-----What the heck is "spiritual growth"?
Spiritual Growth - in Twi
* Taking all their classes....repeting this process several times
* Going WOW Ambassador........some went WOW 4 times (twi applauded)
* University of Life or Corps......keep "growing in the Word"
* Different colored nametags -- different spiritual levels
* Attending every WIB Conference.....spiritual growth for businessmen
* Attending every Corps Week/ROA.....spiritual growth for corps
* Serving at twi's corporate hub.....spiritual growth personified
In a corporate model, limb coordinators were managers, region coordinators were district managers, and corps coordinators were assigned to train a sales force. All major policy and directions came from hq.....states and regions were merely satellite offices. All policies and directives came from hq. All legal and financial support came from hq.
If I were to diagram twi's hierarchy and command elements, it would look something like this:
Twi Spiritual Hierarchy and Classifications
1) President, Founder of TWI -- Victor Paul Wierwille
2) Presiding president -- Rosalie Fox Rivenbark
3) Vice Presidents [3]... (some change every few years)
4) Presidents' Cabinet....and Area Coordinators over twi departments
5) Region and Corps Coordinators.....invited to Leaders Mtgs
6) Limb coordinators.....wide range depending on workload
7) Department coordinator.....bookstore dpmt commanded major influence
8) Branch Coordinators.....few corps have less responsibility
9) Corps....must be corps to serve in way productions
10) Staff....the best of the best of advanced class grads
11) Advanced Class Grads.....finished curriculum, now climb (haha)
12) Intermediate Class Grad...instructed in 3 manifestations
13) PFAL Grad....A True Believer, one who can move mountains
14) A Twig Attendee....waiting for the pfal class to start
15) A Twig Attendee....still considering taking pfal
16) A Twig Attendee....rarely comes to twig
17) Non-believer......hasn't yet heard or heard enough to believe
18) Church Goer.......one who yields to trinity doctrine and all
19) Church Leadership.....leading others down the path of destruction
20) Born of Wrong Seed....given fully to devil spirit realm
I know, I know.....there are many other levels in twi's hierarchy, but this is a simplification of twi's structure. If one choses to climb their corporate ladder, these are the levels......and then, much is based on seniority and "who you know" to keep climbing.
...so many ideas were planted in my head – insidious seeds – that would effectively choke out a normal thought process. What I mistook for a blossoming garden of spiritual growth was actually overgrown weeds that obscured the perception of reality.
Great Post, T-Bone.
Obergrown weeds, LOL.
I still feel like a kid – though now trapped inside the body of an old man." So I wonder – did I learn anything? Have I grown spiritually? Reason tells me I must have – but maybe it's some humbling human safeguard of the brain that tells me I don't know much about anything – so I need to pay attention and be on guard during this journey. Also makes me think how in the he11 did I make it this far?
...BUT – here at Grease Spot I have seen such a broad spectrum of perspectives, unique experiences & savvy thought processes by folks who have left Victorville.
I think for many of us here - the learning happened AFTER we left TWI - when we worked out "what it is, and what it is not."
Among other things, we here have learned to be wary. To "prove [test] all things."
And, hopefully, having been hurt, and having hurt many along the way, we have also learned how to treat people compassionately and avoid causing further hurt to others.
Soooo glad I'm out.
I just spend a few moments thinking about what sort of person I might have become had I still been in...not at all a pretty sight.
It was painful being cast out and M&A'd...but really, it was a big favor. I had no plans to leave voluntarily.
Even though those red flags were flying thicker and more vigorously than ever.
skyrider, my friend, did you list "unbelieving believer" -- that's my fave -- that's what i am lol
Broken Arrow......I concede, you are right.
More specifically, I should point out that the corps program was touted as a work/study program.......interesting, that "work" is mentioned first. In mentioning "milk" the study/class side of things was pfal-rehash, dale carnegie techniques, and wholesale wierwille indoctrination. Lots of side teachings like knowles breathing, flossing, eating ediquette, safety and survival, etc.....parent or nanny instruction?
And, with the "work" aspect......it was pathetic. Having been raised in rural USA, I started driving a tractor at 11-years old, and a combine during wheat harvest at 12-years old. So, I clearly understand that my perspective on this.....is not the norm.
But really.....pulling weeds for 3 hours? sweeping stairs and hallways? food preparation, clean-up and storage? clearing deadwood in the way woods.....and CLAIMING HOW MIGHTILY GOD WAS TEACHING YOU IN THIS WORK? To me, it all suggests how twi fostered an authoritarian environment and corps bought into the submission of sold goods.
Ironically, whenever twi wanted to publically tout its greatness......doctors, professional businessmen, private-tutored rich kids, older retirees with wealth, etc. were spotlighted by wierwille and company. Follow the money trail and the party behind closed doors.
thanks for that -- i had no idea about your background -- very interesting -- considering veepster was a supposed farmer and then i think about all the time tim graves spent scrubbing a brick building and all the time i spent in gunnison doing something with rocks -- i forget what -- moving them? but they were little
the way corps program for me was the worst and i thought it would help me to grow the most spirititually - what a joke
--
--
i don't mean he was a farmer, but i thought he knew about farming
--
as far as spiritual growth, i was always scared to death i would be called upon to stand up and minister as an advanced class grad -- never mind way corps -- ugh
skyrider, my friend, did you list "unbelieving believer" -- that's my fave -- that's what i am lol
excie.....no, I didn't list that one. It completely slipped my mind.
Ironic, isn't it?.......an "unbelieving believer" sounds like a soft euphemism for some born again believer who doesn't perform at will......yet, when wierwille fumed his disdain for a "cop-out corps" person it dripped of one being devil possessed.
Wierwille must have plagairized these communication skills of control.
If I were to diagram twi's hierarchy and command elements, it would look something like this:
Twi Spiritual Hierarchy and Classifications
1) President, Founder of TWI -- Victor Paul Wierwille
2) Presiding president -- Rosalie Fox Rivenbark
3) Vice Presidents [3]... (some change every few years)
4) Presidents' Cabinet....and Area Coordinators over twi departments
5) Region and Corps Coordinators.....invited to Leaders Mtgs
6) Limb coordinators.....wide range depending on workload
7) Department coordinator.....bookstore dpmt commanded major influence
8) Branch Coordinators.....few corps have less responsibility
9) Corps....must be corps to serve in way productions
10) Staff....the best of the best of advanced class grads
11) Advanced Class Grads.....finished curriculum, now climb (haha)
12) Intermediate Class Grad...instructed in 3 manifestations
13) PFAL Grad....A True Believer, one who can move mountains
14) A Twig Attendee....waiting for the pfal class to start
15) A Twig Attendee....still considering taking pfal
16) A Twig Attendee....rarely comes to twig
17) Non-believer......hasn't yet heard or heard enough to believe
18) Church Goer.......one who yields to trinity doctrine and all
19) Church Leadership.....leading others down the path of destruction
20) Born of Wrong Seed....given fully to devil spirit realm
I know, I know.....there are many other levels in twi's hierarchy, but this is a simplification of twi's structure. If one choses to climb their corporate ladder, these are the levels......and then, much is based on seniority and "who you know" to keep climbing.
Good luck.
Skyrider, i like your extensive list here.. .it's truly amazing how complicated way world was - not just the convoluted doctrines, but the whole culture.. .and what a bunch of nonsense.. .reminds me of an episode of Seinfeld - i think they were pitching an idea for the show and said it was a show about nothing. That's all TWI 's trappings were - a show about nothing - nothing of any spiritual substance.
~~
nice to hear from you t-bone :wub:
Hey, Excathedra! Hugs & kisses from me & Tonto :wub:
Recommended Posts
JavaJane
I followed steps 1 - 5.... Realized the illusion was an illusion, and moved without leaving a forwarding address.
I used to think it was The Household of God.
That changed to "it's got some problems, but it's probably just local."
That changed to "maybe I can help fix this."
And that made me realize that TWI wasn't broken - it was exactly what it was set out to be: a way to make money and manipulate people for the enjoyment of those at the very top.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
Actually, I think you're giving the Corps program way too much credit in that they didn't serve anything, not even milk. No, the Way Corps was simply a program wherein its participants spent almost all of their time engaging in worthless busy work that resulted in nothing whatsoever. Yet TWI leadership lauded the program to the rank and file as THE path to spiritual maturity. That kept people coming in the program. Again, as you say, only an illusion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Same thing with Fellow Laborers. Spend your time cutting grass and weeding the garden. I've looked at the FLO facebook page. People gushing about how much God taught them through digging a ditch or something. What a crock of pig poop.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
"Oh yes! I learned sooooo much about God today! I was digging a ditch for Dr. Wierwille to irrigate his lawn when my shovel struck something. I figured it was a rock so I kept smacking it with my shovel. Eventually I dug under it when I heard a hiss and smelled a peculiar odor. I thought 'what could be making such a noise and smell?' so I lit my lighter to get a better look. It turns out I had dug through a gas line! Haha! Within seconds, the entire courtyard exploded! I quickly thought of the Book of Revelation and how things on this earth are going to explode and catch on fire when the believers are gathered.
As many of my brothers and sisters were being rushed to the hospital, I thought about how one person, just one person, could affect the lives of so many! I saw my life so much bigger.
Even though I no longer have the use of my right arm, in fact, I have no right arm, Haha! I'm soooo thankful that God privileged me with learning this great truth from His wonderful matchless Word, all from working on that ditch. I'm much more blessed now than ever! Sorry about your house, your barn, and the BRC, but I'm believing that God will fix it all. He always supplies you know, Haha!"
God bless! You are the best! Haha!
Edited by Broken ArrowLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
lol
"matchless word" . . . God's grace will spare your other arm . . .
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Broken Arrow......I concede, you are right.
More specifically, I should point out that the corps program was touted as a work/study program.......interesting, that "work" is mentioned first. In mentioning "milk" the study/class side of things was pfal-rehash, dale carnegie techniques, and wholesale wierwille indoctrination. Lots of side teachings like knowles breathing, flossing, eating ediquette, safety and survival, etc.....parent or nanny instruction?
And, with the "work" aspect......it was pathetic. Having been raised in rural USA, I started driving a tractor at 11-years old, and a combine during wheat harvest at 12-years old. So, I clearly understand that my perspective on this.....is not the norm.
But really.....pulling weeds for 3 hours? sweeping stairs and hallways? food preparation, clean-up and storage? clearing deadwood in the way woods.....and CLAIMING HOW MIGHTILY GOD WAS TEACHING YOU IN THIS WORK? To me, it all suggests how twi fostered an authoritarian environment and corps bought into the submission of sold goods.
Ironically, whenever twi wanted to publically tout its greatness......doctors, professional businessmen, private-tutored rich kids, older retirees with wealth, etc. were spotlighted by wierwille and company. Follow the money trail and the party behind closed doors.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
I remember discussing a cover to an issue I'd seen of Moody's magazine.
It showed a guy with his garage completely filled with all sorts of tools,
pegboards, outlets and so on.
The caption was "When will we finally feel ready?"
(Or something close to that.)
They thought it was a good question.
Looking back, it's obvious it was a better question for them than it was for me.
They'd jumped through every hoop twi had, and STILL nobody was saying
"Ok, you're as prepared as we can make you. Now go out there and serve God."
Instead, it was about a lifetime of remaining plugged in to the twi hierarchy,
"tapped to the root" and never about deciding to do anything with autonomy
or actually thinking for themselves.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Yeah.....now I clearly see why wierwille had to incorporate more heavy-handed controls around 1979, 1980. In April of 1980, twi moved its operation from the brc to the osc building.....and a corporate mentality evolved. Corps and staff meetings became more policy and regulations. All slackers or dissenters were put on public display during lunchroom rants or corps meetings. Many of twi's old-timer staffers saw the writing on the wall and headed for the exit doors. Sad, really.
"Tapped to the root"......twi's little marketing campaign. But really, twi wanted to stay "tapped to our wallets and cheap labor" to build their empire.
IMO.....wierwille knew exactly what he was doing and had no remorse. He used people. He abused people. He built his empire for the greater New Knoxville community and others to see. And yet, even before his death......the wierwille mystique was becoming unmasked and his followers were dispersing.
.
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
What's to say the corps purpose wasn't to bring vps and craigmeisters harem to them?
The men were just included to avoid suspicion. Think about it, can you see vp or craigmeister having a female only corps? That would have sounded a lot of alarm bells.
SoCrates
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
In the above scenerio, this would be to keep men who would question and women who didn't interest them too busy and too tired to realize what was really going on right under their noses.
SoCrates
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I think the W.C. served multiple purposes. I certainly don't dismiss the harem theory as at least one of them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
That's got to be one of the funniest things I've ever read here.
(and saddest, too)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Reading this thread reminded me of something from a movie I saw recently. The movie is "Inception" – a sci-fi thriller about a guy who usually steals intellectual property from the mind of someone who is sleeping. Although the big twist in this story is that he is contracted to plant an idea in someone's head – an idea the person thinks is his own and that will influence him to make a major business decision.
This could probably get into all sorts of categories how TWI deceived, manipulated & motivated folks – but on this thread I thought of how from my earliest involvement with them, so many ideas were planted in my head – insidious seeds – that would effectively choke out a normal thought process. What I mistook for a blossoming garden of spiritual growth was actually overgrown weeds that obscured the perception of reality.
Jumping at any class that became "available" in my area, being excited to go door-to-door witnessing, putting my share of moolah in the cornucopia, all earned me the praise from others of how fast I am growing in "the Word". From the get go, I had the idea that anything TWI offered would put me on the fast track to spiritual growth & fulfillment. That's why I went WOW and then went in the Corps.. . There was only one way to go in this ministry and that's up.
…uhm more precisely, climbing the hierarchy of spiritual status. Oh, that's moving up alright – further up the corporate a$ $. But my head was telling me "Look how long I've been in TWI; how much I'm responsible for; how I've been around the man of God; how much I've worked PFAL; how much I've changed."
Ugh! Looking back .. . I mean way back – a brief scanning of when I took the class, my years as a cult-gear, the year I left up to now – in many ways is a weird nebulous feeling – similar to what I get sometimes when I feel an ache or stiffness from age and think "Where did my youth go? I still feel like a kid – though now trapped inside the body of an old man." So I wonder – did I learn anything? Have I grown spiritually? Reason tells me I must have – but maybe it's some humbling human safeguard of the brain that tells me I don't know much about anything – so I need to pay attention and be on guard during this journey. Also makes me think how in the he11 did I make it this far?
Sorry for rambling here.. .haven't posted in a long time and I know I tend to stray from topics.. .but another thing about this illusion of spiritual growth that I see – is the stark contrast of how we judge growth and change – while we were in TWI compared to how we think now. I think back on all the "deliverance" stories I heard in the ministry. They all sound alike. [speaking of Deliverance – I saw a T-Shirt at a canoe rental place in Gunnison "Paddle faster I hear banjos" – hmmm, that sort of fits here doesn't it?]. The common denominator in ministry deliverance stories is always the same standard – all things TWI is what's good for ya! Everyone thinks alike, homogenized personalities, canned experiences, standardized growth charts – all are a product of the PFAL factory – one of the world's most misleading producers of the Stepford Christians.
BUT – here at Grease Spot I have seen such a broad spectrum of perspectives, unique experiences & savvy thought processes by folks who have left Victorville.
In an effort to squelch other implanted ideas I'd just like to say that Howdy Doody never took the class and Mickey Mouse is not born of the seed of the serpent.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
And now I have to wonder-----What the heck is "spiritual growth"?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
I kinda liked this one.... to quote T-Bone "......uhm more precisely, climbing the hierarchy of spiritual status. Oh, that's moving up alright – further up the corporate a$ $."
Seems to fit TWI.
---------
I remember the sweetest most unassuming woman going into the WC and she came out the polar opposite. I was afraid of her. I don't scare easily.
Spiritual growth according to TWI? Seems to be just how mean an SOB one could become. Maybe those who didn't conform, pimp for leadership, sell out their fellow man, or refused to harden were the ones with true growth. At least they had something to show for it. Those are the ones we remember fondly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Well, if we look at the timing, one could argue it a few ways.
Here's what we know:
vpw heard about the House of Acts and the young Christians there.
He raced over there double-quick, and did his best to hijack the hippies there.
When talking to J1m D00p, vpw asked for specific details about ORGIES and told
D00p- who was thankful to be DELIVERED FROM THEM-
that ORGIES were ok with God and attempted to mutilate a verse of Scripture
to say that.
Shortly after the hippies started coming to hq, vpw had them out on both coasts
as recruitment arms for twi.
Within a few years of that, vpw fired all the top Christians from before twi
(H33fn3r, D00p) and consolidated control over the local Christian movements
now on both coasts and had them taking their orders from him.
About that time was the first corps.
Going from the timeframe, I think vpw's intention with the corps was to have
young people who would follow him blindly off a cliff no matter what he said,
and the goals for the women was to find women who he could have sex with,
and the goal for the men was manual labor and extensions of vpw's will on location.
(Of course, finding corps who would do other things like cook for him, etc
was a bonus.)
Depending on how you look at it, that's 3 goals.
1) Get blind followers
2) Get sex victims
3) Get worker drones
Or that's all 1 goal with specifics.
Furthermore, since the program was designed to make a financial profit while having
corps labor full-time, it was amazingly profitably from a finances POV.
Bring in money while bringing in FREE LABOR?
Get people to PAY TO WORK?
You can't convince me that was an ACCIDENT.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Spiritual Growth - in Twi
* Taking all their classes....repeting this process several times
* Going WOW Ambassador........some went WOW 4 times (twi applauded)
* University of Life or Corps......keep "growing in the Word"
* Different colored nametags -- different spiritual levels
* Attending every WIB Conference.....spiritual growth for businessmen
* Attending every Corps Week/ROA.....spiritual growth for corps
* Serving at twi's corporate hub.....spiritual growth personified
In a corporate model, limb coordinators were managers, region coordinators were district managers, and corps coordinators were assigned to train a sales force. All major policy and directions came from hq.....states and regions were merely satellite offices. All policies and directives came from hq. All legal and financial support came from hq.
If I were to diagram twi's hierarchy and command elements, it would look something like this:
Twi Spiritual Hierarchy and Classifications
1) President, Founder of TWI -- Victor Paul Wierwille
2) Presiding president -- Rosalie Fox Rivenbark
3) Vice Presidents [3]... (some change every few years)
4) Presidents' Cabinet....and Area Coordinators over twi departments
5) Region and Corps Coordinators.....invited to Leaders Mtgs
6) Limb coordinators.....wide range depending on workload
7) Department coordinator.....bookstore dpmt commanded major influence
8) Branch Coordinators.....few corps have less responsibility
9) Corps....must be corps to serve in way productions
10) Staff....the best of the best of advanced class grads
11) Advanced Class Grads.....finished curriculum, now climb (haha)
12) Intermediate Class Grad...instructed in 3 manifestations
13) PFAL Grad....A True Believer, one who can move mountains
14) A Twig Attendee....waiting for the pfal class to start
15) A Twig Attendee....still considering taking pfal
16) A Twig Attendee....rarely comes to twig
17) Non-believer......hasn't yet heard or heard enough to believe
18) Church Goer.......one who yields to trinity doctrine and all
19) Church Leadership.....leading others down the path of destruction
20) Born of Wrong Seed....given fully to devil spirit realm
I know, I know.....there are many other levels in twi's hierarchy, but this is a simplification of twi's structure. If one choses to climb their corporate ladder, these are the levels......and then, much is based on seniority and "who you know" to keep climbing.
Good luck.
.
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Great Post, T-Bone.
Obergrown weeds, LOL.
I think for many of us here - the learning happened AFTER we left TWI - when we worked out "what it is, and what it is not."
Among other things, we here have learned to be wary. To "prove [test] all things."
And, hopefully, having been hurt, and having hurt many along the way, we have also learned how to treat people compassionately and avoid causing further hurt to others.
Soooo glad I'm out.
I just spend a few moments thinking about what sort of person I might have become had I still been in...not at all a pretty sight.
It was painful being cast out and M&A'd...but really, it was a big favor. I had no plans to leave voluntarily.
Even though those red flags were flying thicker and more vigorously than ever.
Them there weeds sure obscured the view.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
It's when you're so indoctrinated that there is no difference between VP's word and God's.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
When the pfal series is supremely the way, the truth, the life.......you've arrived
When reading the Way Magazine and Bible are one and the same.........you've arrived.
When jumping at the command of the mog and not asking why............you've arrived.
When any and all research not sanctioned by twi is anathema..........you've arrived.
When you life, your livelihood, your all is cemented with twi........you've arrived.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
nice to hear from you t-bone :wub:
skyrider, my friend, did you list "unbelieving believer" -- that's my fave -- that's what i am lol
thanks for that -- i had no idea about your background -- very interesting -- considering veepster was a supposed farmer and then i think about all the time tim graves spent scrubbing a brick building and all the time i spent in gunnison doing something with rocks -- i forget what -- moving them? but they were little
the way corps program for me was the worst and i thought it would help me to grow the most spirititually - what a joke
--
--
i don't mean he was a farmer, but i thought he knew about farming
--
as far as spiritual growth, i was always scared to death i would be called upon to stand up and minister as an advanced class grad -- never mind way corps -- ugh
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
excie.....no, I didn't list that one. It completely slipped my mind.
Ironic, isn't it?.......an "unbelieving believer" sounds like a soft euphemism for some born again believer who doesn't perform at will......yet, when wierwille fumed his disdain for a "cop-out corps" person it dripped of one being devil possessed.
Wierwille must have plagairized these communication skills of control.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
Yeah, and all that too!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Skyrider, i like your extensive list here.. .it's truly amazing how complicated way world was - not just the convoluted doctrines, but the whole culture.. .and what a bunch of nonsense.. .reminds me of an episode of Seinfeld - i think they were pitching an idea for the show and said it was a show about nothing. That's all TWI 's trappings were - a show about nothing - nothing of any spiritual substance.
~~
Hey, Excathedra! Hugs & kisses from me & Tonto :wub:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.