the victoids' *ministry(?)*

[Ham]

part B is even more interesting.

What did *they* do with it?

I have "The Book". A real paper copy. I have another one.. and it is in an appropriate, undisclosed, hidden but well read place..

it answers everything(?)..

God Bless you, Mr. Wolfe.

[Broken Arrow]

some of the newer generation, will check your credit, your criminal record.. your academic history, your prostrate.. before they will give you a half an ounce of trust..

which is sad in a way. A depraved fiend can hide well behind an impeccable credit rating, criminal history, academic excellence..

Yes, but can he hide behind an enlarged "prostrate"? <_<

Edited February 25, 2011 by Broken Arrow

[Ham]

hey.. yes. If it is big, or enlarged, enough..

[waysider]

The last time you said this the promise was that God would give you the songs if you would teach your little brother to play "Chopsticks". NOW WHICH IS IT???!!

You are probably confusing this with a similarly different but quite differently similar incident during which black snow spewed forth, totally obstructing the obscenely high gas prices on the pumps at the local "We Got Gas" convenient mart. That was the day I hauled all my Howlin' Wolf albums to the local dump and made Muddy Waters my only source of blues and mojo..

[T-Bone]

Very few people know it was actually me who wrote Woodstock. God gave it to me in a vision during a late summertime sno-cone storm. He said he would give me the words and music, along with the words and music to songs that people had been singing since the first century, if I would promise to transcribe it into tablature for the Bb ocarina. I promised Him, then and there, I would never again play Chopin on the kazoo if He would grant me this wish.

...which reminds me of the time i was on a mission trip to Scotland. There i was giving bass guitar lessons to saint and sinner alike - since i have a long suit in being a genius [a genius at what i know not - whether in my mind or out of my mind - don't know that either]. i remember this one young fellow - uhm i think his name was Jack Bruce - anyway, he said to me "I want to be the greatest bass player in the world but i do not believe in your genius".

when i explained to him that my bass guitar lesson is work for saint and sinner alike and that all he needed to do was to literally follow my instructions - it appeared that i had him totally befuddled. Then i said "now raise the volume of your amp...go ahead - raise it"......he did - cranked it up to 11 he did - and as he noodled away on the fret board, sounding like a lovesick whale with a croupy cough channeling a foghorn...

Jack wept.

my ears began weeping blood.....i said "now praise me, as surely as Lady GaGa's girdle will bind up in a cocoon someday - who will become the greatest bass player in the world?" and then i looked him right in the eye and said "you are the man!" and then it snowed on his Marshall Amp.....

[waysider]

Hallelujah!

Now I understand what must have been going on in that white room with black fire engine red curtains.

Edited February 25, 2011 by waysider

[Ham]

I really don't know where this came from, but here it is..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfman_Jack

[Ham]

dagnabbit.. I put this on the other computer, and it was "loading" forever..

Edited February 25, 2011 by Ham

[geisha779]

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness...

". . .This old guy got a boner and, well, ok never mind, but I do remember VP saying that Linda Lovelace made a movie with a German Shepherd and that the dog was smarter than she was; it was trying to get away. Don't remember anything about a horse. Don't remember any references to any movies either.

I lived in San Francisco in the early 70s. Saw several porn type movies there. Since then the only porn movies I saw were at believers' bachelor parties. CF&S was NOT serious porn. I kind of admired that a church bred guy would dare to present sex that honestly. I saw many examples of parents and children taking the same CFS class. Wouldn't quite be the same atmosphere in a church ."

Wouldn't be quite the same in a church atmosphere? What exactly was it VP was going for that a church would detract from this godly and honest "class"? (Where is that puke icon)

I was disheartened by the nose dive this thread took with this post by johniam....it took us right back to that place we all have managed to escape.

There are some wonderful thoughts on this thread....but, here we are again......wallowing in base conversation...I guess that is what happens when one discusses VP and PFAL with a "Believer".

Believer in what?

Edited February 25, 2011 by geisha779

[skyrider]

I was disheartened by the nose dive this thread took with this post by johniam....it took us right back to that place we all have managed to escape.

I know......along with others, I too pointed this out to johniam. Interlaced within his posts, there is a pattern of this.

Reminds me of sitting in some of those corps meetings with martindale......time and time again, he would throw in sex jokes or sexual innuendos or genitalia references while we were flipping to the next bible verse.

[Broken Arrow]

I lived in San Francisco in the early 70s. Saw several porn type movies there. Since then the only porn movies I saw were at believers' bachelor parties. CF&S was NOT serious porn. I kind of admired that a church bred guy would dare to present sex that honestly. I saw many examples of parents and children taking the same CFS class. Wouldn't quite be the same atmosphere in a church.

What is "serious porn", anyway? Does that mean there is also "funny porn"? I mean, since you lived in San Francisco in the 70's, you must know, you must be an expert. I just live in Ohio, you know, the Bible Belt. Nobody here but us chickens. Call it what you will, Wierwille showed erotic, sensual pictures in CF&S. Furthermore, what is so admirable about a church-bred guy showing pictures of naked couples and calling it Biblical Research? Not only that, but he for some reason chose to share vernacular words of certain body parts. Like we didn't know those words? What was the purpose of that? He said it was so we could be "educated" and familar with those words so that when unbelievers said them we would know what they meant. Uh huh. Your last sentence implies that the church is naive and religious about the subject of sex. That's just not the case. Go to a Christian bookstore sometime and look around. A lot of authors have written books on the subject of sex and sexuality. I would recommend a book titled Sacred Sex. If you think it's going to be some "mamby pamby" pie-in-the-sky writing, think again.

Now, before I get too self-righteous here, I voluntarily sat through the class (with my mother...ewww!). I voluntarily sat through the class quite a few more times AND I recommended the class to others. If I was so "put off", why did I support it? No one forced me to go nor did they force me to stay. If none or very few of us attended that class, it would have died on the vine. So, I have to admit, and I have repented of my participation. My participation helped fuel the fire and helped to lead others into that garbage.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Broken Arrow

[Ham]

under what other circumstances.. would a mid life male.. taking the hand of a practically teen aged female.. and placing it on his erection.. be acceptable? In CHURCH?

*we* were SUPPOSED to be.. church.

there were a few boundaries even in my most devoted way days that I would not cross..

crazy..

It's what..

scary thoughts.

The church of the "liberated"..

"Praise da lord, sister.."

Those who I feel real compassion for.. is those who came across the path of *uncle* howard..

what a very, very small soul..

even the hippies had a few standards..

it doesn't feel good, don't do it..

[chockfull]

I kind of admired that a church bred guy would dare to present sex that honestly. I saw many examples of parents and children taking the same CFS class. Wouldn't quite be the same atmosphere in a church.

The way to present sex honestly is within the confines of a family. That means yes, fathers and mothers have the spiritual responsibility to have some honest conversations with their kids.

The mind picture I get of an old lecher VPW teaching a class that includes all sorts of deviant behavior to both parents and children is representative of one of the major things wrong with TWI from the beginning. A pastor having sex with his flock represents depravity and immorality, not "freedom and honesty".

Honestly, if you run into a pastor who wants you to sit in a class while he teaches you the slang words for male/female genatalia, get a clue and run the other way. You can learn slang terms from buddies on a street corner or in a bar or frat party somewhere. If it's coming from your pastor something is genuinely screwed up there.

[Ham]

We already knew all, or most of the slang terms, didn't we?

What "new light" was presented here?

"hafta read it in da original, keeds.."

was that it?

[Ham]

he was such a what..

tourist? maybe that's a better description than manogawd..

the very best rock and roll does not put this kind of s*it up front. It lays it between the lines..

listen to Clapton.. strange brew..

there is a lot more..

[waysider]

Putting all the moral and Biblical aspects on the back-burner for the moment, here are two problems I have with the CF&S class. First, Wierwille claimed to have thrown all his secular materials away and used the Bible as his "only rule of faith and practice". Maybe the time-frame doesn't fit since his visit to California was at a later date than his miraculous snow storm incident. Does that make a difference? He devoted an entire section of the class to listing commonly used profanities. Where is it in the Bible (his only rule of faith and practice) that the term "up the old dirt road is used"? Either he decided to let the Bible be his only rule of faith and practice or he didn't. Period. Second, in PFAL, he rambled on and on about how "the Bible is of no private interpretation", yet, in CF&S, when presenting his theory on the original sin, he said,"You'll just have to trust me on this one." Forget about whether CF&S was Biblical or moral. The fact is, it was a shoddy piece of workmanship and reeked of hypocrisy.

[Ham]

well, yes.

If he "threw out" all of his "secular" material..

how did the video of the women and dog end up as some kind of original "research material"?

I mean.. throw out bible commentaries.. how did gross porn get the priviledge of being left behind?

"kiddees. *we* are not here, to study da bible.. you can get that in any ordinary, bland, denomination.."

[So_crates]

I mean.. throw out bible commentaries.. how did gross porn get the priviledge of being left behind?

I've heard about the porn in CFS.

The thing that strikes my mind about the whole CFS class is how does it differ from teaching the bible in a porn shop?

The other thing that crosses my mind is Christ was so enraged by the moneychangers. The whole, "You've turned my fathers house into a den of iniquity" thing.

How would feel about porn in his church? What did Saint Vic turn his body into?

Or God's word (if and only if its the real Word) being taught in a porn shop of a class? God's word which He magnified above his whole name wallowing in the sewage of a CFS class.

SoCrates

Edited February 26, 2011 by So_crates

[Ham]

I don't know about you. But I am running on fumes here.. in more ways than one..

I've outlived my dad by close to ten years..

the Tallman family has rarely had a male living much past sixty..

there was one one early settlement that failed, because of this. It is much easier for the next generation to find sustenance elsewhere. My dad found it in the Army airforce in WW2..

so. as for me. The student loan people will come. They will have to descend into Hell to collect.. I'll just say, "take it out of my social security account".

[So_crates]

The student loan people will come. They will have to descend into Hell to collect.. I'll just say, "take it out of my social security account".

Your bankrupted, inflation wracked SSI account.

SoCrates

[Ham]

ha! I think that is what I was trying to say..

really, there is nothing left there..

but I was one of the stooges who paid in..

lets see how they can reconcile all that, and student loans..

I think as the book keepers might interject, hit even..

[waysider]

I'm not so sure I would call the CF&S class porn. That's really a somewhat broad and subjective term that can mean many different things to many different people. I don't think, though, that anyone can deny it was totally irrelevant to the subject of "Biblical research and teaching". There was no research. There was no Bible (unless you count the various scriptures that were thrown in rather randomly to give it a Biblical flavor). And there really was no teaching. Just some horny old dude, rambling on about how it was important for Gawd's people to be current on all the latest gutter vernacular, showing pictures of rather private body parts and making strange comments like,"Aren't her breasts just gorgeous?".

Edited February 26, 2011 by waysider

[Ham]

we'll just call it a draw.

I paid in, year after year..

raised productive, educated individuals, in my household.

I really did all I could do here..

no. They will find two loan officers. One will be an absolute saint. The other one, would rob his mother of her pension, to pay the tax debt..

yes, they will find two.

and they will give both of them stern, strict orders to collect from me, moments before shooting both of them in the head..

:biblaugh:

sorry. It's a running joke here..

[Ham]

considering in this life..

I've been met with debts from the last one.. or was that from the one before.. or was that from the one before that..

yeah.

I wish I could just remember what it was that I owed..

[waysider]

One poster here has described an incidence of sexual imposition that he witnessed during the course of the CF&S class. And, he opined, it was actually good because it happened in what most people would call a church related setting. WTF?? What in the he!! was wrong with us that we bought into this horse crap? Better yet, what in the he!! is wrong with people who saw what was going on and still don't understand it?

Edited February 26, 2011 by waysider